When to kneel, when to stand

2»

Comments

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Thing is, when your forehead actually touches the back of the pew in front, you appear to be sound asleep. Which may or may not be a problem for you. Make sure, however, that the sound of snoring is muted.

    Leaning right forward in that manner directs the sound downwards and muffles it a bit.
  • Gee D wrote: »
    Thing is, when your forehead actually touches the back of the pew in front, you appear to be sound asleep. Which may or may not be a problem for you. Make sure, however, that the sound of snoring is muted.

    Leaning right forward in that manner directs the sound downwards and muffles it a bit.

    But if your forehead is pressed to a pew of the right length there's a risk of hitting a resonant frequency. Which would be bad.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    If you're in that situation, may you be lucky enough that others in your pew are in a similar pose, thus altering the frequency.
  • Zappa wrote: »
    Unless you're just plain bloody stubborn. NZ Anglicans -who have long since forgotten that kneeling is even a Thing™ - inexplicably drop to their bottoms for the Lord's Prayer when it is used at the end of the Great Prayer of Thanksgiving. I don't [insert roll eyes emoji]. I just can't.-But then neither could I could turn a somersault or scream "Welcome Lord Voldemort/Trump/Cthulhu" at that moment.

    What is also a 'thing' with many Anglican congregations is sitting down after the Sanctus/Benedictus halfway through the Thanksgiving Prayer. It seems to come down to what the custom is for that particular church. Eg, my current mob do this. Which initially wrongfooted me a little when I first arrived having got used to a full stand until after the singing of the Agnus Dei. Other congregations across the dioceses variously do or don't depending on their tradition, I notice. It seems to be left up to the incumbent/liturgy wizards to work out what works best for their congregation.

    There are, of course, those people who should be sitting down, rather than giving themselves needless pain and discomfort, and feeling obliged to stand, because of embarrassment or being told off, or getting funny looks.
  • I am one of those persons, inasmuch as I now spend the whole of the Mass in a wheelchair.

    I have not, so far, experienced any funny looks - if I should do so, they would be met by a Paddington Hard Stare (I have bushy and expressive eyebrows, which are not, obviously, obscured by my face-mask).

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Anselmina wrote: »

    What is also a 'thing' with many Anglican congregations is sitting down after the Sanctus/Benedictus halfway through the Thanksgiving Prayer. It seems to come down to what the custom is for that particular church. Eg, my current mob do this. Which initially wrongfooted me a little when I first arrived having got used to a full stand until after the singing of the Agnus Dei. Other congregations across the dioceses variously do or don't depending on their tradition, I notice. It seems to be left up to the incumbent/liturgy wizards to work out what works best for their congregation.

    It depends for us. Normally Madame and I kneel after the Benedictus and remain kneeling for the remainder of the Great Thanksgiving, then stand. That's a bit hard when we're on sanctuary duty, not a good look to be the only one kneeling.
  • Since our two parishes amalgamated nine years ago, our two town churches have standardised on sitting, or less frequently, kneeling after the Benedictus, after the practice of the smaller centre which is an old-style biretta-belt church. Our country church which leans toward Prayer-Book Catholic remains standing throughout the Great Thanksgiving and up to the Agnus Dei. In some ways it may reflect the state of arthritic knees and hips among the worshippers rather than any liturgical reason.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited December 2020
    ,,, they would be met by a Paddington Hard Stare (I have bushy and expressive eyebrows, which are not, obviously, obscured by my face-mask).
    My d-i-l is good at doing Hard Stares, and she does not have bushy and expressive eyebrows.

  • O no - they're not requisite, just helpful.
    :wink:
  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    My understanding is that kneeling half way or thereabouts through the Great Thanksgiving (after the benny thing if it's there or the sancty thingy if not) was a result of Very Poor Teaching as we transitioned from Cranmer's Celebration of Misery to more contemporary (and ironically older) Celebrations of Salvation Hope.

    I first encountered it in Australia's Diocese of Adelaide. It is well known that it makes the Baby Jesus cry, but he has informed me (between sniffs) that he will eventually release those of you who are dropsies after you have observed an appropriate period of some millennia in purgatory.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    It's also the practice in Catholic churches we've been to. You kneel for the consecration, that being (perhaps, no-one's too sure) when Christ enters the elements.
  • Gee D wrote: »
    It's also the practice in Catholic churches we've been to. You kneel for the consecration, that being (perhaps, no-one's too sure) when Christ enters the elements.

    Current RC theology is the the whole Eucharistic Prayer is consecratory, but that a prayer commemorating Christs death, resurrection and ascension, the words of institution and the invocation of the Spirit are all required. Theologians now get a bit queasy about pointing to a precise instant.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    Officially that’s Anglican theology too. Does it stem from Dix?
  • BroJames wrote: »
    Officially that’s Anglican theology too. Does it stem from Dix?

    I think there has been parallel research as a part of the Liturgical Movement. The RC church also had to bend their heads round the fact that Syrian Uniates use an anaphora that has no words of institution.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    It's also the practice in Catholic churches we've been to. You kneel for the consecration, that being (perhaps, no-one's too sure) when Christ enters the elements.

    Current RC theology is the the whole Eucharistic Prayer is consecratory, but that a prayer commemorating Christs death, resurrection and ascension, the words of institution and the invocation of the Spirit are all required. Theologians now get a bit queasy about pointing to a precise instant.

    We work on the basis that there are various steps - the initial one being giving thanks, the second and third being the consecration. That used be the position when we were lads and lasses, and we've obviously missed out the change you outline. Thanks for the detail you give.
  • Zappa wrote: »
    My understanding is that kneeling half way or thereabouts through the Great Thanksgiving (after the benny thing if it's there or the sancty thingy if not) was a result of Very Poor Teaching as we transitioned from Cranmer's Celebration of Misery to more contemporary (and ironically older) Celebrations of Salvation Hope.

    I first encountered it in Australia's Diocese of Adelaide. It is well known that it makes the Baby Jesus cry, but he has informed me (between sniffs) that he will eventually release those of you who are dropsies after you have observed an appropriate period of some millennia in purgatory.

    Yes. Opinions do differ. :wink:

    So long as the main body of the people are doing more or less the same thing I don't think it matters much. And I don't think the grown-up Jesus much cares about it either. We're instructed to worship in spirit and in truth. So as excellently cobbled together as any Consecration Prayer is, it is and remains just one more of man's feeble attempts at worshipping the Ineffable. And as such we offer, whatever it is we offer, in humility and awareness of our shortcomings, rather than in the triumphalistic certainty that we're doing it Right. Whatever 'it' is!

    It is important from a mortal human point of view to have some degree of uniformity about what we do, of course, because being frail we might fail to remember we're worshiping as the Body of Christ if too many people do too many different things at the one moment! Uniformity is really more for our sake than God's, I think. But it is useful to develop a theology to reinforce one's own favourite style of uniformity. I'm certainly prone to that, and currently my theology is: most of my congo are elderly and arthritic and getting a break halfway through an overly wordy concoction of Thanksgiving Prayer is not just a kindness, but probably a necessity!
Sign In or Register to comment.