Can someone tell me why we even Have multinational coffee chain outlets?
Because of business and capitalism.
As I said Starbucks took over an indigenous coffee chain here in the UK called The Seattle Coffee Company. Costa was started by Italians and then bought out twice. Coca Cola who own it now want to use it to take on Starbucks.
I am trying to refrain from getting into saving seats argument as most of the people I know say that coffee shops are like pubs. You sit down then you order.
Ironically, or something, Starbucks bought out a company here called "Seattle's Best Coffee" which was just a (successful) rename of Smith Brothers Coffee (SBC - get it?). Someday the entire world's business will consist of five multinational corporations, and a bunch of tiny ma-and-pa shops that just haven't been bought out yet.
That may not sound an interesting title but wait.
I work in catering in a department store. In out coffee shop we have people who buy one coffee and sit all day at their computer. Some get a glass of water and sit for 2 Hours (we will never refuse a customer a glass of water). Meanwhile customers coming in are waiting for seats. In the current climate businesses need all the sales they can get and restrictions mean that there is less seating so we can take fewer customers anyway. Of course this happens in all coffee shops.
Thanks for buying the coffee but get your backside out of that seat.
When my wife was working, they reduced office space, introduced hot desking and encouraged staff to write their notes in cafes while out on the road. Seemed a bit of a cheek to me
Can someone tell me why we even Have multinational coffee chain outlets?
Because of business and capitalism.
As I said Starbucks took over an indigenous coffee chain here in the UK called The Seattle Coffee Company. Costa was started by Italians and then bought out twice. Coca Cola who own it now want to use it to take on Starbucks.
I am trying to refrain from getting into saving seats argument as most of the people I know say that coffee shops are like pubs. You sit down then you order.
Ironically, or something, Starbucks bought out a company here called "Seattle's Best Coffee" which was just a (successful) rename of Smith Brothers Coffee (SBC - get it?). Someday the entire world's business will consist of five multinational corporations, and a bunch of tiny ma-and-pa shops that just haven't been bought out yet.
In my industry (not coffee!) that's the way it goes - find an 'authentic' company which the money can use as a smokescreen, grow it (leveraged all to f*ck) rapidly into a huge version of itself which doesn't look much like the original thing at all, sell it quick just before it runs out of steam, and do it all again. Alarmingly there are people at my university who seem to think this model has things to offer the public sector.
[Someday the entire world's business will consist of five multinational corporations, and a bunch of tiny ma-and-pa shops that just haven't been bought out yet.
@Marsupial, what was surreal about my description of coffee shops? Do you not get such a variety of customers in Ontario?
I'm not going to try to do a class analysis of who goes to Starbucks, though it does strike me as on average a more middle-class kind of place than the ubiqitous Tim Hortons (where incidentally I've never had trouble finding a seat). I do find the idea that someone with $10 to spend on lunch and 20 minutes to eat it in is somehow a priviliged person who doesn't understand coffee shop culture more than a little surreal.
Ah, okay. I suspect it's different in the UK, at least in the areas I've lived in and travelled to. But we don't have Tim Hortons. I've observed some coffee shops have more middle class customers than others, but all seem to have a mix, and I haven't observed Starbucks to be one of the more middle class ones in general. Plenty of students, as mentioned above, and where I live, also people on benefits, and it is a place where a group of recovering addicts hang out after their meetings.
So, yes, someone who regularly goes in to spend £10 on their lunch is likely to be more privileged than some of those people. I'm not sure why that's surreal. I personally couldn't afford to spend £10 on my lunch each day, but even so, I'm very aware I'm more privileged than some of these people. And as I said, I'm aware that the staff are catering for a variety of people - not just the more privileged ones.
If I were only going in for lunch each day, of course I wouldn't be aware of the regulars and the ebbs and flows and the staffs' attitudes to the regulars. I have become aware because I go at different times and can spend hours there. This is because I work part time. On the days I work, I go in early, at 7:30am, for a coffee and a relax before work. On days I don't work, I go in mid morning or the afternoon. Sometimes I go after work, before closing. So I get a sense of the vibe, I guess, the personality, the staff, the interactions, etc., that I wouldn't get if I were just popping in for lunch. Different sorts of customers at different times, for instance, and also I see that customers that I might have otherwise seen as a nuisance to staff actually have built up a rapport with staff, staff know them, and are okay with them sitting for hours.
All this seems quite logical and straightforward to me, and I'm not sure why it's surreal. Many things in this strange world strike me as surreal, but not this! Maybe you somehow interpreted what I said as a putdown, but it really wasn't. I was trying to draw attention to the various dynamics I see happening, which make it a bit more complex than 'People who stay for hours are pests and should be kicked out'.
Cream doesn't belong anywhere near doughnuts either.
Have you never had a cream doughnut?
Can't abide cream. The only true filling for a doughnut is jam. I've occssionally been served doughnuts with cream on or in and even after wiping off the worst of it it's still ruined.
Even though there are chain shops that are international, it is possible that things are different in different countries.
In France apparently a Quarter-pounder with cheese is called a Royale with cheese. Think about it. They have the metric system over there. They probably wouldn't even know what the fuck a quarter pounder is. A Big Mac is a Big Mac, but they call it "le Big Mac". I'm not sure what they call a whopper. I didn't go into a Burger King.
First picture is of doughnuts. Second is of a disappointment.
My problem with cream isn't that it tastes nasty. It's more that it doesn't really taste of much; all it seems to do is stop you tasting the thing it's on, so I don't see the point.
First picture is of doughnuts. Second is of a disappointment.
My problem with cream isn't that it tastes nasty. It's more that it doesn't really taste of much; all it seems to do is stop you tasting the thing it's on, so I don't see the point.
Most of the time what's called "cream" in dessert products in the US is really a gelatinous goo with artificial vanilla flavor.
The nicest thing I know about Krispy Kreme is that their Canadian operation went bankrupt pretty quickly. I never tried any, but the reviews I read were that the stuff was unfit for human consumption. I'm not a great Tim Horton's fan, but at least you can eat theirs and hold them down.
The nicest thing I know about Krispy Kreme is that their Canadian operation went bankrupt pretty quickly. I never tried any, but the reviews I read were that the stuff was unfit for human consumption. I'm not a great Tim Horton's fan, but at least you can eat theirs and hold them down.
Oddly, they still have locations in Toronto. I know, we're weird.
Even though there are chain shops that are international, it is possible that things are different in different countries.
In France apparently a Quarter-pounder with cheese is called a Royale with cheese. Think about it. They have the metric system over there. They probably wouldn't even know what the fuck a quarter pounder is. A Big Mac is a Big Mac, but they call it "le Big Mac". I'm not sure what they call a whopper. I didn't go into a Burger King.
Both of which are anathema to me. A plain doughnut, straight from the vat, dipped in cinnamon sugar, and consumed while still hot is the only way in which I like to eat them. Anything else is either too sickly or when cold too doughy
Even though there are chain shops that are international, it is possible that things are different in different countries.
In France apparently a Quarter-pounder with cheese is called a Royale with cheese. Think about it. They have the metric system over there. They probably wouldn't even know what the fuck a quarter pounder is. A Big Mac is a Big Mac, but they call it "le Big Mac". I'm not sure what they call a whopper. I didn't go into a Burger King.
It's not a motorcycle, baby, it's a chopper.
Dave, you might like Judge John Hodgeman's podcast. Every episode he makes an obscure cultural reference and if one of the litigants identifies it, they get immediate summary judgement in their favor. Someone should tell Giuliani about that.
First picture is of doughnuts. Second is of a disappointment.
My problem with cream isn't that it tastes nasty. It's more that it doesn't really taste of much; all it seems to do is stop you tasting the thing it's on, so I don't see the point.
I'm not a big cream fan. I used to not like it at all. I find it works best with some added flavour. Zest of lemon and/or lime works well, especially if it's going on something chocolate.
I do wonder if something was lost in translation, as it were, when they expanded out of the American South—if what people get elsewhere are what we get here. It wouldn’t be the first time expansion was accompanied by loss of quality.
A very well-known department store in Sydney used have (and this was back in the 50s) a machine making deep-fried doughnuts (from memory that, rather than donuts) in front of your eyes. You'd order your tea or coffee and donuts, watch the doughnuts go through the process - onto a slotted metal tray in a small train, around a few corners, then into the very hot fat or oil. Then out and round some more track to help them both cool down and lose any surplus oil. From there to a plate put in front of you.
First picture is of doughnuts. Second is of a disappointment.
My problem with cream isn't that it tastes nasty. It's more that it doesn't really taste of much; all it seems to do is stop you tasting the thing it's on, so I don't see the point.
Most of the time what's called "cream" in dessert products in the US is really a gelatinous goo with artificial vanilla flavor.
And sugar.
I haven’t eaten a doughnut for years. It’s just a ball of fat and sugar.
First picture is of doughnuts. Second is of a disappointment.
My problem with cream isn't that it tastes nasty. It's more that it doesn't really taste of much; all it seems to do is stop you tasting the thing it's on, so I don't see the point.
Most of the time what's called "cream" in dessert products in the US is really a gelatinous goo with artificial vanilla flavor.
Fructose is sugar and it is more damaging to health than glucose.
I thought that fructose was advantageous because you don't need as much to achive the same sweetness. The problem with HFCS is overuse as a provider of cheap bulk, not the fructose itself.
[Someday the entire world's business will consist of five multinational corporations, and a bunch of tiny ma-and-pa shops that just haven't been bought out yet.
Have you been watching Rollerball?
I was thinking Demolition Man, "Taco Bell* won the franchise war, now all restaurants are Taco Bell" (my paraphrase from memory).
* Except the version that was released in the UK where they digitally wiped out the Taco Bell signs to be replaced by Pizza Hut (with the dialogue badly dubbed). Apparently because they thought Taco Bell would be unknown in the UK, though the suspicion is that Pizza Hut offered them a load more cash than Taco Bell for the privilege.
Fructose is sugar and it is more damaging to health than glucose.
I thought that fructose was advantageous because you don't need as much to achive the same sweetness. The problem with HFCS is overuse as a provider of cheap bulk, not the fructose itself.
Table sugar also consists of glucose, which is the main energy source for your body’s cells.
Fructose needs to be converted into glucose by the liver before it can be used by the body.
It’s also found in various sugary sweeteners like high-fructose corn syrup and agave syrup. If a product lists added sugar as one of its main ingredients, you can be pretty sure it’s high in fructose. Before the mass production of refined sugar, humans rarely consumed it in high amounts. While some sweet fruits and vegetables contain fructose, they provide relatively low amounts.
So low amounts are fine - such as eaten in apples and oranges.
When a person eats glucose, the chemical structure of the compound triggers the pancreas to release insulin, a hormone that allows cells to use glucose for energy.
Fructose does not trigger insulin release, nor does it trigger the release of hormones such as leptin, which tells the brain that a person is full, or inhibit hormones that tell a person’s body that they are hungry.
As a result, researchers suggest that fructose is more harmful to a person because they are more likely to eat more than if they had eaten a food containing glucose.
[Someday the entire world's business will consist of five multinational corporations, and a bunch of tiny ma-and-pa shops that just haven't been bought out yet.
Dystopian futures (at least in fiction) do seem to correlate with a single (or very small number of) business taking over everything. I'm sure there's a good reason for that.
I do wonder if something was lost in translation, as it were, when they expanded out of the American South—if what people get elsewhere are what we get here. It wouldn’t be the first time expansion was accompanied by loss of quality.
The first point is that you need translation. American tastes are far sweeter. Sorry, but I found a lot of things in America just horrendously sweet.
This is Hell, so let's get into the utterly fucked up ways in which the US government (maybe state governments too) subsidises corn farmers and how this leads to massive amounts of corn syrup that simply have to be shoved into your food or else the whole economic system collapses.
And then everybody starts talking about how 'carbs' are bad for you. They're not. Not if you get your carbs in the ways that nature invented.
I do wonder if something was lost in translation, as it were, when they expanded out of the American South—if what people get elsewhere are what we get here. It wouldn’t be the first time expansion was accompanied by loss of quality.
The first point is that you need translation. American tastes are far sweeter.
Very true, and that varies regionally in the US, too.
But I don’t think that’s inconsistent with what I was trying to get at—that in “translating” for taste, the food in question can essentially become a different food, and might well seem different to people in the food’s place of origin.
Likewise, if there isn’t “translation,” then people in places with differing tastes experience the food differently from how it is experienced in its place of origin. What makes it off-putting in a new place might be precisely what makes it taste good to people in its place of origin.
The Blessed Mother drinks her coffee black, and puts it that way in the Baby Jesus' bottle. But I don't think she gives him a Krispy Kreme if he's been very, very good.
@Boogie - way to go with misinformation! Fructose is fruit sugar, the simple sugar most plants produce to store energy. I've just eaten some in an apple, the carrots, peppers and other veg I had for lunch. It's not an evil in and of itself. What you are confusing it with is High Fructose Corn Syrup, a common additive to processed food whee it is not doing our diets any good. But that's a whole 'nuther issue.
Sucrose, table sugar, is a molecule that comprises both a fructose and glucose simple sugar. That's not a whole lot of good for us either, but that's because we eat too much of it.
(Yep, I drink black coffee with no sugar, tea with just a slosh of milk, no sugar added other than the lactose in the milk.)
This is Retail Employee Ranting, Intermediate Level. You'll find the Biochemistry Entry Prep Course in room 415, down to the end of the corridor and turn right.
This is Retail Employee Ranting, Intermediate Level. You'll find the Biochemistry Entry Prep Course in room 415, down to the end of the corridor and turn right.
High fructose corn syrup seems far more widely used in the US than the UK, from all I've read. When it is used here in the UK, it is called glucose-fructose syrup, and the fructose content is lower than that in the US. Though this is with EU regulations, so no doubt things will change with Brexit. I assume it's cheaper to use than simply sugar, as I observe Asda Smart Price baked beans contain it, while regular Asda brand baked beans simply have 'sugar' in the ingredients.
I had a thought, regarding the initial dilemma. You know how quite a few pensioners use their free bus pass to travel on buses all day long, for the warmth and the company, rather than sit alone in their cold home (cold because of not wanting to put the heating on, as it's expensive)? But equally there is a time in the morning when it's not free, so they don't use it then - this is to give priority to the commuters and school kids, as this is a busy time. In theory, something similar could be implemented around lunch time for coffee shops, as this is the time when many workers take their lunch break and are going to coffee shops specifically for lunch. In theory, coffee shops could state that for certain times people can only stay if they buy a meal. Though in practical terms, I imagine that would be pretty difficult to enforce.
I assume it's cheaper to use than simply sugar, as I observe Asda Smart Price baked beans contain it, while regular Asda brand baked beans simply have 'sugar' in the ingredients.
I believe it's only cheaper because of the amount of indirect subsidies provided by the US government.
I had a thought, regarding the initial dilemma. You know how quite a few pensioners use their free bus pass to travel on buses all day long, for the warmth and the company, rather than sit alone in their cold home (cold because of not wanting to put the heating on, as it's expensive)? But equally there is a time in the morning when it's not free, so they don't use it then - this is to give priority to the commuters and school kids, as this is a busy time.
In Wales they're free 24/7 - in fact I used my pass at 7.30 this morning. They tried to change it a couple of years ago and there was an outcry. Mind you, that was pre-Covid so they'll want to make savings now.
I had a thought, regarding the initial dilemma. You know how quite a few pensioners use their free bus pass to travel on buses all day long, for the warmth and the company, rather than sit alone in their cold home (cold because of not wanting to put the heating on, as it's expensive)? But equally there is a time in the morning when it's not free, so they don't use it then - this is to give priority to the commuters and school kids, as this is a busy time.
In Wales they're free 24/7 - in fact I used my pass at 7.30 this morning. They tried to change it a couple of years ago and there was an outcry. Mind you, that was pre-Covid so they'll want to make savings now.
They'd need to run a lot more buses for this to work here. Buses are already packed to overflowing at commuter times, and once 9:30 comes, and people with free bus passes can use them, buses are absolutely full of people with free bus passes, and elderly people often squabbling as to who most deserves a seat, and who should stand and let them sit! In pre-covid times, anyway.
Comments
Ironically, or something, Starbucks bought out a company here called "Seattle's Best Coffee" which was just a (successful) rename of Smith Brothers Coffee (SBC - get it?). Someday the entire world's business will consist of five multinational corporations, and a bunch of tiny ma-and-pa shops that just haven't been bought out yet.
Thank you. This has been my experience as well.
When my wife was working, they reduced office space, introduced hot desking and encouraged staff to write their notes in cafes while out on the road. Seemed a bit of a cheek to me
In my industry (not coffee!) that's the way it goes - find an 'authentic' company which the money can use as a smokescreen, grow it (leveraged all to f*ck) rapidly into a huge version of itself which doesn't look much like the original thing at all, sell it quick just before it runs out of steam, and do it all again. Alarmingly there are people at my university who seem to think this model has things to offer the public sector.
It has been known 😝
Have you been watching Rollerball?
Have you never had a cream doughnut?
Ah, okay. I suspect it's different in the UK, at least in the areas I've lived in and travelled to. But we don't have Tim Hortons. I've observed some coffee shops have more middle class customers than others, but all seem to have a mix, and I haven't observed Starbucks to be one of the more middle class ones in general. Plenty of students, as mentioned above, and where I live, also people on benefits, and it is a place where a group of recovering addicts hang out after their meetings.
So, yes, someone who regularly goes in to spend £10 on their lunch is likely to be more privileged than some of those people. I'm not sure why that's surreal. I personally couldn't afford to spend £10 on my lunch each day, but even so, I'm very aware I'm more privileged than some of these people. And as I said, I'm aware that the staff are catering for a variety of people - not just the more privileged ones.
If I were only going in for lunch each day, of course I wouldn't be aware of the regulars and the ebbs and flows and the staffs' attitudes to the regulars. I have become aware because I go at different times and can spend hours there. This is because I work part time. On the days I work, I go in early, at 7:30am, for a coffee and a relax before work. On days I don't work, I go in mid morning or the afternoon. Sometimes I go after work, before closing. So I get a sense of the vibe, I guess, the personality, the staff, the interactions, etc., that I wouldn't get if I were just popping in for lunch. Different sorts of customers at different times, for instance, and also I see that customers that I might have otherwise seen as a nuisance to staff actually have built up a rapport with staff, staff know them, and are okay with them sitting for hours.
All this seems quite logical and straightforward to me, and I'm not sure why it's surreal. Many things in this strange world strike me as surreal, but not this! Maybe you somehow interpreted what I said as a putdown, but it really wasn't. I was trying to draw attention to the various dynamics I see happening, which make it a bit more complex than 'People who stay for hours are pests and should be kicked out'.
Can't abide cream. The only true filling for a doughnut is jam. I've occssionally been served doughnuts with cream on or in and even after wiping off the worst of it it's still ruined.
In France apparently a Quarter-pounder with cheese is called a Royale with cheese. Think about it. They have the metric system over there. They probably wouldn't even know what the fuck a quarter pounder is. A Big Mac is a Big Mac, but they call it "le Big Mac". I'm not sure what they call a whopper. I didn't go into a Burger King.
First picture is of doughnuts. Second is of a disappointment.
My problem with cream isn't that it tastes nasty. It's more that it doesn't really taste of much; all it seems to do is stop you tasting the thing it's on, so I don't see the point.
Most of the time what's called "cream" in dessert products in the US is really a gelatinous goo with artificial vanilla flavor.
Oddly, they still have locations in Toronto. I know, we're weird.
It's not a motorcycle, baby, it's a chopper.
Both of which are anathema to me. A plain doughnut, straight from the vat, dipped in cinnamon sugar, and consumed while still hot is the only way in which I like to eat them. Anything else is either too sickly or when cold too doughy
Also, I like sitting in cafes and drinking coffee.
Dave, you might like Judge John Hodgeman's podcast. Every episode he makes an obscure cultural reference and if one of the litigants identifies it, they get immediate summary judgement in their favor. Someone should tell Giuliani about that.
I'm not a big cream fan. I used to not like it at all. I find it works best with some added flavour. Zest of lemon and/or lime works well, especially if it's going on something chocolate.
A very well-known department store in Sydney used have (and this was back in the 50s) a machine making deep-fried doughnuts (from memory that, rather than donuts) in front of your eyes. You'd order your tea or coffee and donuts, watch the doughnuts go through the process - onto a slotted metal tray in a small train, around a few corners, then into the very hot fat or oil. Then out and round some more track to help them both cool down and lose any surplus oil. From there to a plate put in front of you.
And sugar.
I haven’t eaten a doughnut for years. It’s just a ball of fat and sugar.
Nah, probably high fructose corn syrup.
I thought that fructose was advantageous because you don't need as much to achive the same sweetness. The problem with HFCS is overuse as a provider of cheap bulk, not the fructose itself.
* Except the version that was released in the UK where they digitally wiped out the Taco Bell signs to be replaced by Pizza Hut (with the dialogue badly dubbed). Apparently because they thought Taco Bell would be unknown in the UK, though the suspicion is that Pizza Hut offered them a load more cash than Taco Bell for the privilege.
Table sugar also consists of glucose, which is the main energy source for your body’s cells.
Fructose needs to be converted into glucose by the liver before it can be used by the body.
It’s also found in various sugary sweeteners like high-fructose corn syrup and agave syrup. If a product lists added sugar as one of its main ingredients, you can be pretty sure it’s high in fructose. Before the mass production of refined sugar, humans rarely consumed it in high amounts. While some sweet fruits and vegetables contain fructose, they provide relatively low amounts.
So low amounts are fine - such as eaten in apples and oranges.
When a person eats glucose, the chemical structure of the compound triggers the pancreas to release insulin, a hormone that allows cells to use glucose for energy.
Fructose does not trigger insulin release, nor does it trigger the release of hormones such as leptin, which tells the brain that a person is full, or inhibit hormones that tell a person’s body that they are hungry.
As a result, researchers suggest that fructose is more harmful to a person because they are more likely to eat more than if they had eaten a food containing glucose.
Link - https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323818#fructose-vs-glucose
No, WALL-E.
Buy’n’Large is chillingly accurate.
The first point is that you need translation. American tastes are far sweeter. Sorry, but I found a lot of things in America just horrendously sweet.
This is Hell, so let's get into the utterly fucked up ways in which the US government (maybe state governments too) subsidises corn farmers and how this leads to massive amounts of corn syrup that simply have to be shoved into your food or else the whole economic system collapses.
And then everybody starts talking about how 'carbs' are bad for you. They're not. Not if you get your carbs in the ways that nature invented.
But I don’t think that’s inconsistent with what I was trying to get at—that in “translating” for taste, the food in question can essentially become a different food, and might well seem different to people in the food’s place of origin.
Likewise, if there isn’t “translation,” then people in places with differing tastes experience the food differently from how it is experienced in its place of origin. What makes it off-putting in a new place might be precisely what makes it taste good to people in its place of origin.
Pouring syrup into coffee is simply yuk. More and more coffee shops seem to be offering it. 🤮
Sucrose, table sugar, is a molecule that comprises both a fructose and glucose simple sugar. That's not a whole lot of good for us either, but that's because we eat too much of it.
(Yep, I drink black coffee with no sugar, tea with just a slosh of milk, no sugar added other than the lactose in the milk.)
Indeed!
I believe it's only cheaper because of the amount of indirect subsidies provided by the US government.
This, I think, is better late than never.
You must not have read her post. Fructose is NOT treated by your body in the same way as glucose (a point which you ignore).
They'd need to run a lot more buses for this to work here. Buses are already packed to overflowing at commuter times, and once 9:30 comes, and people with free bus passes can use them, buses are absolutely full of people with free bus passes, and elderly people often squabbling as to who most deserves a seat, and who should stand and let them sit! In pre-covid times, anyway.