IIRC, most of the 17 states involved are in the middle of the country, top on the map to the bottom. I wonder if there's anything important about that?
Here's a re-purposed electoral map which shows the states involved in brown. 270toWin does not allow you to rename the color-coded labels, so Biden states are blue, non-seditious Trump states are red, and Trump states that are willing to endorse sedition are brown. Despite the labels, no state is a "toss-up" at this point.
A lot of Mid-Western states have signed on to this effort, but there are some east coast states involved as well, like Florida and South Carolina. Of course South Carolina has long been the home office of American sedition (h/t Charles Pierce).
Thanks for the post on Warren @Crœsos . I think Lawyers, Guns and Money must be one of your favorite pages. He sounds like a really interesting guy and rather a pivotal figure in CA politics. I shall add him to my list.
Eisenhower learned long ago, just because he appointed what he thought were conservative judges, they may end up becoming the most liberal judges up until that time. Witness the Warren Court.
Did he think they were conservative and did that have much role in his decisions to appoint?
We were making steps in that direction for a while in the second half of the 20th century, not getting close but going in the right direction, and now we've regressed. I don't know how we turn that around.
The trouble is that your notion of progress is tied up with (please pardon my ignorance if I name the wrong states here) imposing Massachusetts values on Wyoming. And Trumpism is a backlash to that.
Ask instead how the system can be changed to let Wyoming be Wyoming and let Massachusetts be Massachusetts.
Yeah, that's absolute, painfully misleading bullshit. By no coincidence whatsoever Trump supporters in eighteen states (though interestingly not Wyoming) have demanded that the Supreme Court overturn the presidential election results in four other states, ostensibly because they don't like the way those four states conducted their elections but really because Trump lost those four states. Even more specifically, they hate the fact that black and brown people voted in sufficient numbers to swing Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, and Pennsylvania in favor of Joe Biden. This is in clear violation of the early 20th century values against letting non-white people vote that @Russ seems to be so nostalgic for. (Let Alabama be Alabama!)
In short, Trumpism isn't a backlash against stricter federal standards in voting rights per se, it's about white fragility and the will to power. Trump and his supporters are perfectly happy to run roughshod over states that don't support Dear Leader.
A huge factor in American elections for now a couple of rounds is the increasingly chaotic interplay of those things that unite us and those that divide us ... The breakup of the Soviet Union ... the breakup of Iraq ... the Brexit move ... are ominous indicators of perhaps the Zeitgeist ...
In short, Trumpism isn't a backlash against stricter federal standards in voting rights per se, it's about white fragility and the will to power. Trump and his supporters are perfectly happy to run roughshod over states that don't support Dear Leader.
I've no intention of arguing for Trump and Trumpism, and would agree with many of the criticisms of him that you would make.
What's interesting to me is the wellspring of dissatisfaction with pre-Trump politics that he so successfully tapped into.
And you're deluding yourself by dismissing this as nothing but racism.
I think the 2008 financial crisis hit many places hard, and has had a long reach. Then in addition the rise of global competition has hit some sectors particularly hard.
I think that wellspring of dissatisfaction was particularly ripe for tapping by the kind of populist rhetoric that Trump peddles. (I think some of the same issues underlie Brexit as well.)
Globalization and the resulting loss of well-paid union manufacturing jobs, the growth of the service industry with its shitty jobs, the squeezing of the middle class - these things have been going on for decades. The Democrats' move to the center with Bill Clinton and their abandonment of middle America left those folks ripe for the plucking.
But don't kid yourself about American racism, @Russ - it's always a factor in our politics. You can always tell a certain number of Americans that the reason their lives suck is immigrants are taking their jobs and Black people are living off of taxpayers. Economic dissatisfaction generates rage that should be directed at Jeff Bezos and Mitch McConnell and their ilk, but Republicans have been re-directing it for years. All Republican presidents elected since the Voting Rights Act in 1965 have leveraged racism in their campaigns.
You know your neighbours better than I do, @Ruth .
But it seems to me that there's more than just economics at work here. The phrase "flyover country" speaks of a real culture gap between the people in Washington and Hollywood and the voters in small-town middle America.
In short, Trumpism isn't a backlash against stricter federal standards in voting rights per se, it's about white fragility and the will to power. Trump and his supporters are perfectly happy to run roughshod over states that don't support Dear Leader.
And you're deluding yourself by dismissing this as nothing but racism.
I think any analysis of American politics that dismisses race as a factor is deluded, but YMMV.
Excellent post, Ruth. Your reference to the impact of globalisation seems to me spot-on. My problem is that I don't easily see how the centre-left (or any part of the political spectrum) can seriously address the shift of traditional manufacturing from the west to Asia. What, for example, might Bill Clinton have done instead?
The problem you have, Russ, in formulating your question: Would you settle for something in the space between "not a factor" and "what it's all about"? is that it suggests race isn't really all that important and that it can be resolved by sorting out the economic problems of old industrial regions. I would have thought that the Trump era has demonstrated that the legacy of slavery is a very powerful variable in any explanation of the socio-political dynamic of the US.
You know your neighbours better than I do, @Ruth .
But it seems to me that there's more than just economics at work here. The phrase "flyover country" speaks of a real culture gap between the people in Washington and Hollywood and the voters in small-town middle America.
I am wondering which Washington you are talking about. My Washington is on the left coast as is very attuned to climate change, sustainable manufacturing, electronics, equal rights and is, by the way, one of the first green states (as in allowing legal marijuana) even before the state where Hollywood is located.
The other Washington, as in D.C. is on the other side of the continent. While its municipal government is considered liberal, the federal government is quite conservative, since those fly-over states have more representation in Congress than the left-leaning states.
No, the term "flyover states" refers to the interior regions of the country passed over during transcontinental flights, particularly flights between the nation's two most populous urban agglomerations: the Northeastern Megalopolis (read New York, New Jersey, and Boston) and Southern California.
Yes, I agree there is a cultural gap between the coastal states and the interior states, but at least get your geography right.
. . . the Northeastern Megalopolis (read New York, New Jersey, and Boston) . . .
I've heard of this area referred by demographers (and no one else) as "Boswash", incorporating all major urban areas in the American northeast from Boston through Washington, DC. (Boston, Providence, Hartford, New York, Newark, Philadelphia, Wilmington, Baltimore, Washington)
An interesting article on the obituary of Donald Trump. Its point is democracy survives.
Yes.
The USA gives me hope. They have begun to turn back the tide of jingoism, exceptionalism, fascism, racism and all round nastiness - by voting for Biden and booting out Trump.
We English, apparently, have to go through this sheer nastiness and Brexshit for a while to see how we like living with it. Hopefully we, too, will then turn back the tide.
The USA gives me hope. They have begun to turn back the tide of jingoism, exceptionalism, fascism, racism and all round nastiness - by voting for Biden and booting out Trump.
Yes, I agree there is a cultural gap between the coastal states and the interior states, but at least get your geography right.
He could have been more precise as to which Washington he was referring to, but I though it pretty obvious that he was referring to the vast country between the north-eastern area from Washington DC to Boston and California.
Yes, I agree there is a cultural gap between the coastal states and the interior states, but at least get your geography right.
He could have been more precise as to which Washington he was referring to, but I though it pretty obvious that he was referring to the vast country between the north-eastern area from Washington DC to Boston and California.
I disagree. He did not say Washington and places north. Moreover, you also make a mistake by saying California is the only place where the left side comes from. As I said, my state beat California in becoming green. Besides, it can be argued that California is fast becoming a failed state.
In short, Trumpism isn't a backlash against stricter federal standards in voting rights per se, it's about white fragility and the will to power. Trump and his supporters are perfectly happy to run roughshod over states that don't support Dear Leader.
I've no intention of arguing for Trump and Trumpism, and would agree with many of the criticisms of him that you would make.
What's interesting to me is the wellspring of dissatisfaction with pre-Trump politics that he so successfully tapped into.
And you're deluding yourself by dismissing this as nothing but racism.
It is also about class struggle, as per Karl M. ... Contrary to popular idealistic notions, the USA is not a classless society ... Back during the "Gipper" administration I predicted that in the near future Marxism will capture imagination again ... Unfortunately instead, it has been Fascism (as per 1933) that appeals to America's disaffected ...
Gavin (gov.) thinks of it as a "nation-state". I'm not sure if he wants to do anything about that, or if it's just acknowledging economic status (4-6th largest economy in the world, variably cited, and largest in the US), influence, etc. Of course, the economy's all messed up now, due to Covid.
Yes, I agree there is a cultural gap between the coastal states and the interior states, but at least get your geography right.
He could have been more precise as to which Washington he was referring to, but I though it pretty obvious that he was referring to the vast country between the north-eastern area from Washington DC to Boston and California.
I disagree. He did not say Washington and places north. Moreover, you also make a mistake by saying California is the only place where the left side comes from. As I said, my state beat California in becoming green. Besides, it can be argued that California is fast becoming a failed state.
We talked about the meaning of “failed state”; California isn’t anything like Somalia, South Sudan, Yemen, Afghanistan, or Syria:
Common characteristics of a failing state include a central government so weak or ineffective that it has an inability to raise taxes or other support, and has little practical control over much of its territory and hence there is a non-provision of public services.
I disagree. He did not say Washington and places north. Moreover, you also make a mistake by saying California is the only place where the left side comes from. As I said, my state beat California in becoming green. Besides, it can be argued that California is fast becoming a failed state.
Really Gramps, loosen up a bit and read what's written. The OP said Washington simpliciter; ok, he ought to have added the DC, but it's pretty obvious that's what he meant. He then said Hollywood, and again I thought it pretty obvious that he was referring to California in general. I can't see what possible mistake I made from what you've written, but let it pass.
Yes, I agree there is a cultural gap between the coastal states and the interior states, but at least get your geography right.
Phrasing it this way implies a gross over-simplification, as if there is one common culture in "coastal states" (New Hampshire is the same as California or South Carolina) that contrasts with the one common culture of "the interior states" (Wisconsin is the same as Arkansas).
I disagree. He did not say Washington and places north. Moreover, you also make a mistake by saying California is the only place where the left side comes from. As I said, my state beat California in becoming green. Besides, it can be argued that California is fast becoming a failed state.
Really Gramps, loosen up a bit and read what's written. The OP said Washington simpliciter; ok, he ought to have added the DC, but it's pretty obvious that's what he meant. He then said Hollywood, and again I thought it pretty obvious that he was referring to California in general. I can't see what possible mistake I made from what you've written, but let it pass.
I read it as Washington = East Coast and Hollywood = West Coast.
Yes, I agree there is a cultural gap between the coastal states and the interior states, but at least get your geography right.
Phrasing it this way implies a gross over-simplification, as if there is one common culture in "coastal states" (New Hampshire is the same as California or South Carolina) that contrasts with the one common culture of "the interior states" (Wisconsin is the same as Arkansas).
Besides, it can be argued that California is fast becoming a failed state.
On what grounds could that be argued?
First of all, its tax structure has been severely restricted by several voter initiatives.
Second, their electrical power infrastructure is failing. Many Californians experience blackouts on a regular basis. Their major privately owned electrical company Pacific Gas and Power (PG&E) has declared bankruptcy.
Third, the poverty rate in a number of Californian cities is over 20%.
Fourth, a number of communities in recent years have been devastated by wildfires brought on by exteme drought for a number of years.
Fifth, there have been several attempts at dividing California into three different states.
No. "Failed Nation State" is the polite term for "basket case". A place where government is too weak to control the whole country, because they can't raise taxes. A place where crime and violence can run riot as the police haven't been paid for so long they have to be corrupt and use their tattered uniform and position to demand bribes just to make a living; a place where teachers are the same and have to ask parents for money or stop teaching and make money somehow; where anyone with medical qualifications struggles with their consciences and has to choose between staying in poverty to help with little support and failing facilities - or go abroad to take an appropriate job with pay, benefits and respect; where the justice system only helps people who can pay, so justice is a thing of the past. Roads and infrastructure are broken, the electricity system is not working and piped clean water is a distant memory.
Perhaps we could get a Californian to list the myriad problems in Washington state - except, of course, a Californian wouldn't care about what's going on in Washington state.
It's like the old joke - "Do you know what New Yorkers think about Boston? Nothing."
Perhaps we could get a Californian to list the myriad problems in Washington state - except, of course, a Californian wouldn't care about what's going on in Washington state.
It's like the old joke - "Do you know what New Yorkers think about Boston? Nothing."
My point was there is more to the left coast than Los Angeles. I just threw in the comment that California is fast becoming a failed state to say there is nothing stupendous coming from that end.
True, we have struggled here in the state of Washington over many of the same issues as California, but our property tax structure is healthy. We have no problems with our power infrastructure as of late. Yes, there have been fires. The poverty rate is lower.
But if anyone was to take a crack at how the state of Washington is a failed state, be my guest.
My point was there is more to the left coast than Los Angeles. I just threw in the comment that California is fast becoming a failed state to say there is nothing stupendous coming from that end.
There's more to California than Los Angeles and Southern California. No offense to Los Angeles or SoCal. And more than San Francisco and Northern California. Different cultures, interests, needs, etc. That's one reason for mutterings and more toward splitting the state.
Perhaps arguments that trash someone else's location, just because we're pissed that another poster trashed ours, make discussion more difficult.
In any case, if you’re really intent on starting a Washington-California feud (or West Coast - Wester Coast rap battle, or whatever it is you’re trying to do) maybe you should try a different board.
No. "Failed Nation State" is the polite term for "basket case". A place where government is too weak to control the whole country, because they can't raise taxes. A place where crime and violence can run riot as the police haven't been paid for so long they have to be corrupt and use their tattered uniform and position to demand bribes just to make a living; a place where teachers are the same and have to ask parents for money or stop teaching and make money somehow; where anyone with medical qualifications struggles with their consciences and has to choose between staying in poverty to help with little support and failing facilities - or go abroad to take an appropriate job with pay, benefits and respect; where the justice system only helps people who can pay, so justice is a thing of the past. Roads and infrastructure are broken, the electricity system is not working and piped clean water is a distant memory.
Does this apply even slightly to the USA? No.
The USA is -- and has been and for the last few decades is even more so -- a diverse collection of mini-societies, religious, ethnic, cultural, economic ... The pressing question for "Americans" is whether or not there has been, can be, will be enough assimilation all around sufficient to overcome the accumulating energies that increasingly are melting the glue that once held us together in whatever rickety fashion ...
We Americans tend to be historically naive about our own past, which renders us then also naive about our present situation, which makes historical realism harder to get ... We also tend to be impatient, expecting demanding hoping to solve long standing complex problems by passing some new legislation, setting up a commission of inquiry, and/or holding a couple of elections with fresh names and faces ...
Excellent post, Ruth. Your reference to the impact of globalisation seems to me spot-on. My problem is that I don't easily see how the centre-left (or any part of the political spectrum) can seriously address the shift of traditional manufacturing from the west to Asia. What, for example, might Bill Clinton have done instead?
Traditional manufacturing would have left no matter what he did. The problem lies in what was done to deal with that -- or rather, what wasn't done. The service industry jobs that people have now instead of manufacturing jobs didn't have to be shitty jobs, and that can still be changed. We should massively raise the federal minimum wage, tax the rich at a much higher level, and stop corporate welfare. People who work shitty jobs at Amazon, Walmart, and the like are creating enormous amounts of wealth for Jeff Bezos, the Walton family, et al. It's not as though the U.S. has become a markedly poorer nation since traditional manufacturing left; the problem is the way money is distributed. Anyone who works full time should make enough money to at least put them into the lower middle class; there should be no such thing as "the working poor."
Besides, it can be argued that California is fast becoming a failed state.
On what grounds could that be argued?
First of all, its tax structure has been severely restricted by several voter initiatives.
This doesn't make California a failed state, and it doesn't mean the state is unable to collect taxes.. California's budget outlook was excellent prior to Covid (CA Legislative Analyst Office report on 2019-20 budget), and collections from taxes in the current fiscal year are 22 percent over budget (different report, same office).
Second, their electrical power infrastructure is failing. Many Californians experience blackouts on a regular basis. Their major privately owned electrical company Pacific Gas and Power (PG&E) has declared bankruptcy.
The vast majority of Californians don't experience blackouts. People who live in the urban-wildland interfaces experience blackouts, because that's where the wildfires affect people the most; the power companies cut power on purpose in order to avoid starting wildfires. PG&E declared bankruptcy because of the cost of the wildfires for which it was accountable; it exited bankrupty in June of this year.
This is not to say PG&E is an exemplary company -- not in the least. They suck. But their suckage does not make California a failed state.
Third, the poverty rate in a number of Californian cities is over 20%.
There are 24 states with a higher poverty rate than California; are they also on the brink of failing? The poverty rate in Boston is 20.5%. In Atlanta it's over 22%. Houston: over 21%. Chicago: over 20%.
Fourth, a number of communities in recent years have been devastated by wildfires brought on by exteme drought for a number of years.
Australia has been devastated by wildfire too -- is it liable to become a failed state?
Fifth, there have been several attempts at dividing California into three different states.
So what?
Does California have problems? Certainly. Is it even remotely close to being a failed state? No.
My Washington is on the left coast as is very attuned to climate change, sustainable manufacturing, electronics, equal rights and is, by the way, one of the first green states (as in allowing legal marijuana)
You're right, Gramps. We outside the US don't hear much about your corner of the country.
Our US news is dominated by the politics in DC and the celebrities in Hollywood.
And therefore it's easy to see the scope for resentment in other states if the value systems of people in those two locations - the poles of political and cultural power - don't stay aligned with the common values of the country as a whole.
That's what I was getting at - no slur on any state intended.
- don't stay aligned with the common values of the country as a whole.
Is this actually the case, that there are nationally held values in the US found everywhere except politics and the entertainment media? That seems... unlikely. More likely is that a certain (white, conservative) subset of the population has decided that its values are the only truly American ones and so rail against the media and politicians whose representation of the other "Americas" proves them wrong.
- don't stay aligned with the common values of the country as a whole.
Is this actually the case, that there are nationally held values in the US found everywhere except politics and the entertainment media? That seems... unlikely. More likely is that a certain (white, conservative) subset of the population has decided that its values are the only truly American ones and so rail against the media and politicians whose representation of the other "Americas" proves them wrong.
Many of my fellow Americans have difficulty deciding what it means to BE an American not only because they don't know who *we* are, but they also don't know what we have BEEN (history) ...
Catching up with propagation of misattributed quote, and correcting quoting code. BroJames, Purgatory Host
We outside the US don't hear much about your corner of the country.
Our US news is dominated by the politics in DC and the celebrities in Hollywood.
And therefore it's easy to see the scope for resentment in other states if the value systems of people in those two locations - the poles of political and cultural power - don't stay aligned with the common values of the country as a whole.
News outlets outside the US cover mostly DC and Hollywood, so what is your source of information about the level and targets of resentment outside them?
I can't speak for Russ or others but I never see or hear anything about Hollywood on grown-ups news (BBC and Aljazeera). I see and hear a lot about trump and his antics which I usually filter out and for months now lots about the elections. I see news from all over the US when there's some tech advance, or wild fire, hurricane or flood. I suppose sometimes Hollywood or other entertainment persons impinge on news items but usually it's news of their demise.
A lot of these are just lazy stereotypes. For example, Barack Obama is from one of "the interior states" (Illinois*) yet most people don't consider him a proper Mid-Westerner. (Part of this may be that "the Mid-West" is supposed to be white.) On the other hand the last president with "Hollywood values" was Ronald Reagan**, who rarely gets credited as such.
*Not born there, but if someone lives their whole adult life somewhere I think they get credit for being "from" there.
**Same reasoning as why Obama is from Illinois about how Reagan was from Hollywood.
A lot of these are just lazy stereotypes. For example, Barack Obama is from one of "the interior states" (Illinois*) yet most people don't consider him a proper Mid-Westerner. (Part of this may be that "the Mid-West" is supposed to be white.) On the other hand the last president with "Hollywood values" was Ronald Reagan**, who rarely gets credited as such.
I've often heard Reagan referred to as epitomizing Hollywood, but it's by liberals and leftists with a left-wing critique of Hollywood, ie. the bastion of jingoistic and commercialized patriotism. Which is obviously the polar opposite of what conservatives mean by "Hollywood values".
I can't speak for Russ or others but I never see or hear anything about Hollywood on grown-ups news (BBC and Aljazeera). I see and hear a lot about trump and his antics which I usually filter out and for months now lots about the elections. I see news from all over the US when there's some tech advance, or wild fire, hurricane or flood. I suppose sometimes Hollywood or other entertainment persons impinge on news items but usually it's news of their demise.
I use the New York Times for grownup news from the US, and one of the reasons I like it is that they have reporters traipsing through unconventional corners of the country, with interviews and background stories from (today's paper) Grand Forks, La Crosse, Kearney, Black Mountain-- this one was really fascinating, Big Bend, and Fort Hood. By and large, I avoid English-language broadcast news, and I find my life the fuller for it.
My point was there is more to the left coast than Los Angeles. I just threw in the comment that California is fast becoming a failed state to say there is nothing stupendous coming from that end.
ISTM you felt your state was insulted; your reflex reaction was to trash California and try to prove it; and then you added that you "just threw in the comment".
So you gratuitously insulted California more than you thought Washington to be insulted.
Comments
Here's a re-purposed electoral map which shows the states involved in brown. 270toWin does not allow you to rename the color-coded labels, so Biden states are blue, non-seditious Trump states are red, and Trump states that are willing to endorse sedition are brown. Despite the labels, no state is a "toss-up" at this point.
A lot of Mid-Western states have signed on to this effort, but there are some east coast states involved as well, like Florida and South Carolina. Of course South Carolina has long been the home office of American sedition (h/t Charles Pierce).
Did he think they were conservative and did that have much role in his decisions to appoint?
A huge factor in American elections for now a couple of rounds is the increasingly chaotic interplay of those things that unite us and those that divide us ... The breakup of the Soviet Union ... the breakup of Iraq ... the Brexit move ... are ominous indicators of perhaps the Zeitgeist ...
I've no intention of arguing for Trump and Trumpism, and would agree with many of the criticisms of him that you would make.
What's interesting to me is the wellspring of dissatisfaction with pre-Trump politics that he so successfully tapped into.
And you're deluding yourself by dismissing this as nothing but racism.
I think that wellspring of dissatisfaction was particularly ripe for tapping by the kind of populist rhetoric that Trump peddles. (I think some of the same issues underlie Brexit as well.)
But don't kid yourself about American racism, @Russ - it's always a factor in our politics. You can always tell a certain number of Americans that the reason their lives suck is immigrants are taking their jobs and Black people are living off of taxpayers. Economic dissatisfaction generates rage that should be directed at Jeff Bezos and Mitch McConnell and their ilk, but Republicans have been re-directing it for years. All Republican presidents elected since the Voting Rights Act in 1965 have leveraged racism in their campaigns.
But it seems to me that there's more than just economics at work here. The phrase "flyover country" speaks of a real culture gap between the people in Washington and Hollywood and the voters in small-town middle America.
Then why are you parroting Trump's talking points?
I think any analysis of American politics that dismisses race as a factor is deluded, but YMMV.
Would you settle for something in the space between "not a factor" and "what it's all about" ?
Nope.
The problem you have, Russ, in formulating your question: Would you settle for something in the space between "not a factor" and "what it's all about"? is that it suggests race isn't really all that important and that it can be resolved by sorting out the economic problems of old industrial regions. I would have thought that the Trump era has demonstrated that the legacy of slavery is a very powerful variable in any explanation of the socio-political dynamic of the US.
I am wondering which Washington you are talking about. My Washington is on the left coast as is very attuned to climate change, sustainable manufacturing, electronics, equal rights and is, by the way, one of the first green states (as in allowing legal marijuana) even before the state where Hollywood is located.
The other Washington, as in D.C. is on the other side of the continent. While its municipal government is considered liberal, the federal government is quite conservative, since those fly-over states have more representation in Congress than the left-leaning states.
No, the term "flyover states" refers to the interior regions of the country passed over during transcontinental flights, particularly flights between the nation's two most populous urban agglomerations: the Northeastern Megalopolis (read New York, New Jersey, and Boston) and Southern California.
Yes, I agree there is a cultural gap between the coastal states and the interior states, but at least get your geography right.
I've heard of this area referred by demographers (and no one else) as "Boswash", incorporating all major urban areas in the American northeast from Boston through Washington, DC. (Boston, Providence, Hartford, New York, Newark, Philadelphia, Wilmington, Baltimore, Washington)
Yes.
The USA gives me hope. They have begun to turn back the tide of jingoism, exceptionalism, fascism, racism and all round nastiness - by voting for Biden and booting out Trump.
We English, apparently, have to go through this sheer nastiness and Brexshit for a while to see how we like living with it. Hopefully we, too, will then turn back the tide.
I admire your optimism.
He could have been more precise as to which Washington he was referring to, but I though it pretty obvious that he was referring to the vast country between the north-eastern area from Washington DC to Boston and California.
I disagree. He did not say Washington and places north. Moreover, you also make a mistake by saying California is the only place where the left side comes from. As I said, my state beat California in becoming green. Besides, it can be argued that California is fast becoming a failed state.
It is also about class struggle, as per Karl M. ... Contrary to popular idealistic notions, the USA is not a classless society ... Back during the "Gipper" administration I predicted that in the near future Marxism will capture imagination again ... Unfortunately instead, it has been Fascism (as per 1933) that appeals to America's disaffected ...
On what grounds could that be argued?
Really Gramps, loosen up a bit and read what's written. The OP said Washington simpliciter; ok, he ought to have added the DC, but it's pretty obvious that's what he meant. He then said Hollywood, and again I thought it pretty obvious that he was referring to California in general. I can't see what possible mistake I made from what you've written, but let it pass.
Phrasing it this way implies a gross over-simplification, as if there is one common culture in "coastal states" (New Hampshire is the same as California or South Carolina) that contrasts with the one common culture of "the interior states" (Wisconsin is the same as Arkansas).
This.
First of all, its tax structure has been severely restricted by several voter initiatives.
Second, their electrical power infrastructure is failing. Many Californians experience blackouts on a regular basis. Their major privately owned electrical company Pacific Gas and Power (PG&E) has declared bankruptcy.
Third, the poverty rate in a number of Californian cities is over 20%.
Fourth, a number of communities in recent years have been devastated by wildfires brought on by exteme drought for a number of years.
Fifth, there have been several attempts at dividing California into three different states.
Does this apply even slightly to the USA? No.
It's like the old joke - "Do you know what New Yorkers think about Boston? Nothing."
My point was there is more to the left coast than Los Angeles. I just threw in the comment that California is fast becoming a failed state to say there is nothing stupendous coming from that end.
True, we have struggled here in the state of Washington over many of the same issues as California, but our property tax structure is healthy. We have no problems with our power infrastructure as of late. Yes, there have been fires. The poverty rate is lower.
But if anyone was to take a crack at how the state of Washington is a failed state, be my guest.
And what did I say about the California electrical power system?
Here is a just-published opinion piece describing Calfornia problems by a Californian.
There's more to California than Los Angeles and Southern California. No offense to Los Angeles or SoCal. And more than San Francisco and Northern California. Different cultures, interests, needs, etc. That's one reason for mutterings and more toward splitting the state.
Perhaps arguments that trash someone else's location, just because we're pissed that another poster trashed ours, make discussion more difficult.
In any case, if you’re really intent on starting a Washington-California feud (or West Coast - Wester Coast rap battle, or whatever it is you’re trying to do) maybe you should try a different board.
Who said I was pissed off at anyone? Yes, I offered a defense of my position, but did I attack anyone? I don't think so.
I do think we both agree that there is more to the West Coast, even the East Coast than Hollywood or Washington (DC).
The USA is -- and has been and for the last few decades is even more so -- a diverse collection of mini-societies, religious, ethnic, cultural, economic ... The pressing question for "Americans" is whether or not there has been, can be, will be enough assimilation all around sufficient to overcome the accumulating energies that increasingly are melting the glue that once held us together in whatever rickety fashion ...
We Americans tend to be historically naive about our own past, which renders us then also naive about our present situation, which makes historical realism harder to get ... We also tend to be impatient, expecting demanding hoping to solve long standing complex problems by passing some new legislation, setting up a commission of inquiry, and/or holding a couple of elections with fresh names and faces ...
Traditional manufacturing would have left no matter what he did. The problem lies in what was done to deal with that -- or rather, what wasn't done. The service industry jobs that people have now instead of manufacturing jobs didn't have to be shitty jobs, and that can still be changed. We should massively raise the federal minimum wage, tax the rich at a much higher level, and stop corporate welfare. People who work shitty jobs at Amazon, Walmart, and the like are creating enormous amounts of wealth for Jeff Bezos, the Walton family, et al. It's not as though the U.S. has become a markedly poorer nation since traditional manufacturing left; the problem is the way money is distributed. Anyone who works full time should make enough money to at least put them into the lower middle class; there should be no such thing as "the working poor."
This doesn't make California a failed state, and it doesn't mean the state is unable to collect taxes.. California's budget outlook was excellent prior to Covid (CA Legislative Analyst Office report on 2019-20 budget), and collections from taxes in the current fiscal year are 22 percent over budget (different report, same office).
The vast majority of Californians don't experience blackouts. People who live in the urban-wildland interfaces experience blackouts, because that's where the wildfires affect people the most; the power companies cut power on purpose in order to avoid starting wildfires. PG&E declared bankruptcy because of the cost of the wildfires for which it was accountable; it exited bankrupty in June of this year.
This is not to say PG&E is an exemplary company -- not in the least. They suck. But their suckage does not make California a failed state.
There are 24 states with a higher poverty rate than California; are they also on the brink of failing? The poverty rate in Boston is 20.5%. In Atlanta it's over 22%. Houston: over 21%. Chicago: over 20%.
Australia has been devastated by wildfire too -- is it liable to become a failed state?
So what?
Does California have problems? Certainly. Is it even remotely close to being a failed state? No.
A deluded, pro-Trump Californian. Give me a break.
You're right, Gramps. We outside the US don't hear much about your corner of the country.
Our US news is dominated by the politics in DC and the celebrities in Hollywood.
And therefore it's easy to see the scope for resentment in other states if the value systems of people in those two locations - the poles of political and cultural power - don't stay aligned with the common values of the country as a whole.
That's what I was getting at - no slur on any state intended.
Is this actually the case, that there are nationally held values in the US found everywhere except politics and the entertainment media? That seems... unlikely. More likely is that a certain (white, conservative) subset of the population has decided that its values are the only truly American ones and so rail against the media and politicians whose representation of the other "Americas" proves them wrong.
Corrected quote attribution. BroJames, Purgatory Host
Many of my fellow Americans have difficulty deciding what it means to BE an American not only because they don't know who *we* are, but they also don't know what we have BEEN (history) ...
Catching up with propagation of misattributed quote, and correcting quoting code. BroJames, Purgatory Host
News outlets outside the US cover mostly DC and Hollywood, so what is your source of information about the level and targets of resentment outside them?
*Not born there, but if someone lives their whole adult life somewhere I think they get credit for being "from" there.
**Same reasoning as why Obama is from Illinois about how Reagan was from Hollywood.
I've often heard Reagan referred to as epitomizing Hollywood, but it's by liberals and leftists with a left-wing critique of Hollywood, ie. the bastion of jingoistic and commercialized patriotism. Which is obviously the polar opposite of what conservatives mean by "Hollywood values".
I use the New York Times for grownup news from the US, and one of the reasons I like it is that they have reporters traipsing through unconventional corners of the country, with interviews and background stories from (today's paper) Grand Forks, La Crosse, Kearney, Black Mountain-- this one was really fascinating, Big Bend, and Fort Hood. By and large, I avoid English-language broadcast news, and I find my life the fuller for it.
Respectfully: On thinking that someone insulted Washington state, your reaction was to say
When questioned, you gave a 5-point defense.
A little later, you said:
ISTM you felt your state was insulted; your reflex reaction was to trash California and try to prove it; and then you added that you "just threw in the comment".
So you gratuitously insulted California more than you thought Washington to be insulted.
Sounds like being pissed off, and redirecting it.