Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

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  • Eirenist wrote: »
    I have a hazy recollection that if Trump were to convert to Judaism he could not be extradited from Israel. Can anyone tell me if that is correct?

    Malka Leifer, the Principal of a Jewish school here in Melbourne, fled to Israel when she was charged with sexual assault of some of her students. After a very prolonged extradition battle, I believe the Israeli Justice Minister ordered her extradition to Australia last week.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Here’s a trivia question for you. Has a former U.S. president ever died in a foreign country? If so, which president and what country?

    No fair using Google.

    The Emperor Valerian was captured by Persia in 260 and died a prisoner.
  • Re whether or not a theoretical conversion by T would be accepted:

    Years back, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright found out she has Jewish ancestry, but it had been hidden. (IIRC in the wake of WWII.) There was something of an uproar when that came out: some Jews thought she made it up for some political/nefarious purpose. And she wasn't even trying to convert. Or move to Israel.
  • Simon Toad--

    And which president was Valerian? ;)
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Re whether or not a theoretical conversion by T would be accepted:

    Years back, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright found out she has Jewish ancestry, but it had been hidden. (IIRC in the wake of WWII.) There was something of an uproar when that came out: some Jews thought she made it up for some political/nefarious purpose. And she wasn't even trying to convert. Or move to Israel.

    This was well known even when she and her family had escaped to England. They converted to Christianity while in England. I do not believe it was ever hidden.

  • My mistake, she was baptized Christian in a Roman Catholic Church. As long as I knew of Madeliene, I knew she had a Jewish heritage. No big deal.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Here’s a trivia question for you. Has a former U.S. president ever died in a foreign country? If so, which president and what country?

    No fair using Google.

    Does Texas count?
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Simon Toad--

    And which president was Valerian? ;)

    Around -237, by my estimate.
  • LOL, Atmf.
  • Thanks for the info, Simon T. Seems that Trump will be spared having to make a painful choice.
  • I hear North Korea is lovely at this time of year...
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Here’s a trivia question for you. Has a former U.S. president ever died in a foreign country? If so, which president and what country?

    No fair using Google.
    Does Texas count?

    Depends. Before 1845, yes. From 1861 to 1865, maybe. Otherwise no.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Simon Toad--

    And which president was Valerian? ;)

    Around -237, by my estimate.

    That would make Valerian the almost Absolute Zero president. But, as we know, someone else vies for that honour.
  • Emperor Donald I has begun issuing pardons to his cronies ...
  • Pangolin GuerrePangolin Guerre Shipmate
    edited December 2020
    I note that in response to the Senate's passage of a Corona relief bill, Trump said that it obliged the next administration to large and unrelated expenses - "the next administration - which could be mine". Merely delusional, or does he know something? For all that I've seen these last four years, it would no longer surprise me that a coup would be parenthetical.
  • The Emporer is now refusing to sign the Covid Relief Bill his minions negotiated. They agreed to $600 per person. He now wants that to be amended to $2,000 per person. What is in it for him? Sounds to be he is still trying to buy the election.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    The Emporer is now refusing to sign the Covid Relief Bill his minions negotiated. They agreed to $600 per person. He now wants that to be amended to $2,000 per person. What is in it for him? Sounds to be he is still trying to buy the election.

    Ironically, the democrats are very happy to increase this amount - it's the GOP who don't want to... Tr*mp-Republican loyalty is only required in one direction, apparently.

    This must be the only case in which, in these crazy days, I hope he gets what he is asking for.
  • ...It would be great for people to get that amount. However, AIUI, at this point, the logistics might do more harm than good. It was publicized that the approved $600 might get to people as soon as this week, which means millions of desperate, needy people with little hope have been holding on to that. If that's taken away or delayed...
    :votive:

    AIUI, overriding a presidential veto would need to wait, because many Congress critters have already left town for the holidays. A news report said Congress had constructed the bill to be "veto-proof", but also sounded like that wouldn't necessarily stop T's veto.

  • Veto-proof means only that once it is vetoed, they have the numbers to override him once they're back. It doesn't prevent the veto, just makes it highly unlikely that it will be more than a nuisance and timewaster.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited December 2020
    Veto-proof means only that once it is vetoed, they have the numbers to override him once they're back. It doesn't prevent the veto, just makes it highly unlikely that it will be more than a nuisance and timewaster.

    It's a little more complicated than that. Trump may be resorting to a pocket veto.
    If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a Law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a Law.

    I'd have to count the days (and omit Sundays) but I think we're in the part of the calendar that would permit this. The new Congress comes in on January 3 and any old business goes away at that point, including unsigned bills. Trump isn't clever enough to have thought of this himself, but he has people around him who might.

    There's no reason the new Congress couldn't just pass the same bill, but it would indeed be a huge time waster, and probably the kind of spectacle the Republicans don't want happening right around the Georgia special elections.
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited December 2020
    True. I shouldn't have oversimplified, but I think a pocket veto unlikely (not impossible) because Trump is All About The Show, and a pocket veto is less Show than the regular kind. (Sure, he would try to make up with that by tweeting, but that noise level is so high already that I don't think it can be raised.)

    The thing about the Georgia races is quite true, but I doubt T cares. After all, après moi, le déluge.* So the question becomes whether any Republican with a functioning brain cell can actually get hold of him and head him off.

    "After me, the Flood"--or, "Who gives a shit what happens then?"
  • True. I shouldn't have oversimplified, but I think a pocket veto unlikely (not impossible) because Trump is All About The Show, and a pocket veto is less Show than the regular kind. (Sure, he would try to make up with that by tweeting, but that noise level is so high already that I don't think it can be raised.)

    Emperor Donald I cares nothing at all about any of this except stealing headlines for himself ... He is still a TV game show host ...
  • I believe that is what I said.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    any Republican with a functioning brain cell
    An oxymoron.
  • One way Congress has avoided pocket vetoes in recent years is to technically keep the House and Senate going with just one or two people in attendance.
  • Cameron wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    The Emporer is now refusing to sign the Covid Relief Bill his minions negotiated. They agreed to $600 per person. He now wants that to be amended to $2,000 per person. What is in it for him? Sounds to be he is still trying to buy the election.

    Ironically, the democrats are very happy to increase this amount - it's the GOP who don't want to... Tr*mp-Republican loyalty is only required in one direction, apparently.

    This must be the only case in which, in these crazy days, I hope he gets what he is asking for.

    The official Republican platform, I am told, is to support President Trump.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited December 2020
    Today, Trump was giving out pardons like they were candy. There might be one problem with one: Paul Manafort. Remember during the Mueller investigation, Manafort had originally agreed to become a state's witness and share all he knew about the Russian involvement with the 2016 Trump campaign. Then he clammed up. He refused to share anything. I believe he was convicted on an Obstruction of Justice charge. It appears he refused to cooperate with the special prosecutor because he believed the "unindicted co-conspirator (read Trump) would grant him a pardon. If this were indeed the case, it would be considered a quid pro quo.

    Nevertheless, there still might be other ways of bringing the Trump cohort back into justice just by allowing the various states' attorney generals to try them through the state systems.

    Moreover, while Trump may attempt to pardon his family and himself from Federal criminal prosecution, the Feds could go at him with civil prosecution for such things as reclaiming Payment Protection Funds or any other taxpayer monies the family collected illegally.

    In less than 30 days now, there will be a new Sheriff in town. Thank God
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    It's going to be the slowest 30 days that ever ticked by on any clock. It already seems like an eternity has passed between Election Day and now.

    How long, O Lord, how long?
  • He might still start a war with Iran, if he fancies. Anything that prevents this? We can only hope.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Today, Trump was giving out pardons like they were candy. There might be one problem with one: Paul Manafort. Remember during the Mueller investigation, Manafort had originally agreed to become a state's witness and share all he knew about the Russian involvement with the 2016 Trump campaign. Then he clammed up. He refused to share anything. I believe he was convicted on an Obstruction of Justice charge. It appears he refused to cooperate with the special prosecutor because he believed the "unindicted co-conspirator (read Trump) would grant him a pardon. If this were indeed the case, it would be considered a quid pro quo.

    Nevertheless, there still might be other ways of bringing the Trump cohort back into justice just by allowing the various states' attorney generals to try them through the state systems.

    Moreover, while Trump may attempt to pardon his family and himself from Federal criminal prosecution, the Feds could go at him with civil prosecution for such things as reclaiming Payment Protection Funds or any other taxpayer monies the family collected illegally.

    In less than 30 days now, there will be a new Sheriff in town. Thank God

    And lest we forget, receiving -- and accepting -- a "Pardon" is not necessarily a deal-ending thing ... If I understand it correctly, the SCOTUS decision in Burdick vs. United States (1915) is clear that accepting a Pardon is a de facto admission of guilt ...

    But that doesn't mean that everything just then goes away ... If I accept a Pardon, then I can no longer invoke Fifth Amendment privilege in the matter, so I can be compelled to give complete and truthful answers under oath ...
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Here’s a trivia question for you. Has a former U.S. president ever died in a foreign country? If so, which president and what country?

    The answer to this question is "it depends". More specifically it depends on whether or not you consider the Confederate States of America a foreign country. If you don't consider the C.S.A. to be a different country than the U.S.A. then the answer is "no". If you do, then the answer is "John Tyler".

    John Tyler died in his native Virginia in 1862. He was an ardent secessionist and had been a member of the Virginia Secession Commission. (He voted "yes".) He was even elected to serve in the Confederate House of Representatives, but died before he could take office. Tyler wanted a quiet, private funeral but Jefferson Davis decided to have a full state funeral with full (Confederate) honors give the new slaver's republic a bit of pomp at the outset.

    John Tyler remains the only president whose casket was draped with a flag other than that of the United States. Just as Jimmy Carter is probably America's best ex-president, Tyler was probably the worst ex-president.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Just as Jimmy Carter is probably America's best ex-president, Tyler was probably the worst ex-president.
    To date.

  • I think Trump has got Tyler beat.
  • Persona
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    I think Trump has got Tyler beat.

    Trump isn't yet an ex-president. On Jan. 20, he begins establishing his reputation in that position.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    I think Trump has got Tyler beat.

    Well, we'll have to see how he uses his ex-presidency. Tyler used his influence to treasonously try to dismantle the United States. I'm not saying Trump won't do that, but that sort of thing is a lot of effort and Trump is a profoundly lazy man.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    I think Trump has got Tyler beat.

    Well, we'll have to see how he uses his ex-presidency. Tyler used his influence to treasonously try to dismantle the United States. I'm not saying Trump won't do that, but that sort of thing is a lot of effort and Trump is a profoundly lazy man.

    He will get the MAGAts to do it. Stand in front of them at a rally and tell them to go attack. He's already told the Proud Boys to stand by. You'd better believe they're waiting for the order to attack.
  • Would they actually wait, if they felt the time was right?
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Would they actually wait, if they felt the time was right?

    The Red Hat Brown Shirts do like to think of themselves as a kind of New Revolutionary Army ... so yeah ...
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Would they actually wait, if they felt the time was right?

    The Red Hat Brown Shirts do like to think of themselves as a kind of New Revolutionary Army ... so yeah ...

    There was a large terrorist explosion this morning in Nashville ...
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited December 2020
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Would they actually wait, if they felt the time was right?

    The Red Hat Brown Shirts do like to think of themselves as a kind of New Revolutionary Army ... so yeah ...

    There was a large terrorist explosion this morning in Nashville ...

    There remains no direct evidence as to who set off the bomb
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Would they actually wait, if they felt the time was right?

    The Red Hat Brown Shirts do like to think of themselves as a kind of New Revolutionary Army ... so yeah ...

    There was a large terrorist explosion this morning in Nashville ...

    There remains no direct evidence as to who set off the bomb

    They have a local security photo of the RV ... and have reportedly found human remains, possibly of the bomber ...
  • Interestingly, the RV reportedly broadcast a 15 minute warning ahead of time.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Interestingly, the RV reportedly broadcast a 15 minute warning ahead of time.

    Yeah, I saw that. That's the m.o. of terrorists who are going the extra mile to appear morally respectable: the Stern Gang(at the King David Hotel anyway), the IRA etc.
  • ...the old Basque ETA...I understand the newer spin-off doesn't. (Admittedly, I heard that long ago._
  • Hard to say what the message of the Nashville bombing was supposed to be. (Terrorism is all about sending a message.) 6:30 am on Christmas Day is obviously a sub-optimal time to catch a lot of pedestrian traffic so it seems like a sincere attempt to stage a casualty-free bombing. Or a failure of bomb design, though the recorded warning would argue against that.
  • As I understand it, conspiracy theorists are thinking AT&T is involved in the surveillance of American citizens. I can't help but note the parallel between this bombing and the Oklahoma bombing in that both used rather large vehicles to deliver the bomb. With Oklahoma, it was a panel truck. With Nashville, it is a Recreational Vehicle.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Hard to say what the message of the Nashville bombing was supposed to be. (Terrorism is all about sending a message.) 6:30 am on Christmas Day is obviously a sub-optimal time to catch a lot of pedestrian traffic so it seems like a sincere attempt to stage a casualty-free bombing. Or a failure of bomb design, though the recorded warning would argue against that.

    I'll make a prediction...

    The bomber will turn out to be a lone-wolf, with a political agenda that won't fit neatly into most of the existing categories, but something vaguely right-wing, of the anti-government sort. Not a MAGA supporter, in fact possibly hostile to Trump along with all other politicians, but somewhat similar in demographics and personality to the Red Hats.
  • [I wrote my prediction before seeing Gramps post above mine. Possibly some overlap in our speculation.]
  • I am thinking Qanon, but CBS is now saying they have a person of interest. No real details yet.
This discussion has been closed.