If what I have seen / heard online is true - that N Ireland is remaining in the single market (so there will be a regulatory border down the Irish Sea). Then there will be a United Ireland or a resurgence of the civil conflict there within the next 25 years.
I suspect Brexit will result in the end of the United Kingdom in my lifetime, possibly England & Wales will remain as a rump state.
There is an outside chance that the deal may still not pass if the threat to the union upsets enough MPs. In many ways it is a more fundamental issue of constitutional sovereignty than the whole EU issue.
I think the deal will pass, but you make a valid point.
As regards the *United Kingdom*, the prospects of a united Ireland and an independent Scotland are perhaps more likely now than at any time in the recent past. Quite what will happen to Wales is a moot point, as there's a desire for independence on the part of at least some Welsh people.
Charles III may well find himself as king of just *England*...
I suspect the deal will pass on the grounds that the alternative is even worse. Though, if MPs can wrangle some form of provisional acceptance to allow proper scrutiny and debate that might keep the options open a while longer. At the very least, enough time to answer questions such as why the UK negotiators didn't want to include access to Erasmus+. If Parliament requests the negotiators return to Brussels and do better, where does that leave the UK? Would the deal just announced be in force until such a time as a better one is negotiated? Or would there be no deal until such a time as a better one is negotiated? And, if Parliament is unable to request renegotiation over unacceptable parts of the deal, what sort of control is that?
Stating this without identifying exactly what they were asked is exactly the lack of rigour I'd expect.
What the people were asked about actually happened back at the end of January. "Do we jump?" they were asked. "Yes", the people cried and so the UK duly took a running leap off the top of a tall building.
What's happening now is an attempt to make the landing less painful.
This reminds me of the famous French film La Haine:
C'est l'histoire d'un homme qui tombe d'un immeuble de 50 étages. Le mec, au fur et à mesure de sa chute, il se répète sans cesse pour se rassurer : " Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien. " Mais l'important, c'est pas la chute. C'est l'atterrissage.
(It's the story of a man who falls from a fifty floor building. All the way down, the guy keeps on reassuring himself by repeating, "So far so good... So far so good... So far so good. " But it's not the fall that matters. It's the landing.)
That's what I have been trying to remember all along. I remember watching La Haine when it came out and this has been in the back of my mind all the way through the Brexshitstorm, which is now only just beginning.
Congratulations to my fellow citizens on their lack of basic intelligence and imagination.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
There is no such thing as success when it comes to Brexit, only degrees of failure.
The good citizens of the United Kingdom of course. See Matthew 5.45.
You utter shitweazel. This crap is on you and your fellows. Own it. Deal with it. It's yours and yours alone. You've thrown it over the rest of us and sat down. That is simply not forgiveable.
For the sake of your health and well being, I recommend that you calm down.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
Who is this 'we'? You're not going to do any of the work to make Brexit anything. You're retired. You've dumped this mess on everyone else to sort out.
Yours is the sort of attitude that we do not need if Brexit is not to be a disaster. In order to stop this mess from becoming a disaster we need to have our eyes open and accept that Brexit is not going to be a success.
If you don't think it will be a success, it may not be.
Stating this without identifying exactly what they were asked is exactly the lack of rigour I'd expect.
What the people were asked about actually happened back at the end of January. "Do we jump?" they were asked. "Yes", the people cried and so the UK duly took a running leap off the top of a tall building.
What's happening now is an attempt to make the landing less painful.
This reminds me of the famous French film La Haine:
C'est l'histoire d'un homme qui tombe d'un immeuble de 50 étages. Le mec, au fur et à mesure de sa chute, il se répète sans cesse pour se rassurer : " Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien. " Mais l'important, c'est pas la chute. C'est l'atterrissage.
(It's the story of a man who falls from a fifty floor building. All the way down, the guy keeps on reassuring himself by repeating, "So far so good... So far so good... So far so good. " But it's not the fall that matters. It's the landing.)
That's what I have been trying to remember all along. I remember watching La Haine when it came out and this has been in the back of my mind all the way through the Brexshitstorm, which is now only just beginning.
Congratulations to my fellow citizens on their lack of basic intelligence and imagination.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
There is no such thing as success when it comes to Brexit, only degrees of failure.
The good citizens of the United Kingdom of course. See Matthew 5.45.
You utter shitweazel. This crap is on you and your fellows. Own it. Deal with it. It's yours and yours alone. You've thrown it over the rest of us and sat down. That is simply not forgiveable.
For the sake of your health and well being, I recommend that you calm down.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
Who is this 'we'? You're not going to do any of the work to make Brexit anything. You're retired. You've dumped this mess on everyone else to sort out.
Yours is the sort of attitude that we do not need if Brexit is not to be a disaster. In order to stop this mess from becoming a disaster we need to have our eyes open and accept that Brexit is not going to be a success.
If you don't think it will be a success, it may not be.
For the sake of my health and wellbeing I recommend you fuck off, you sack of sanctimonious shit.
Stating this without identifying exactly what they were asked is exactly the lack of rigour I'd expect.
What the people were asked about actually happened back at the end of January. "Do we jump?" they were asked. "Yes", the people cried and so the UK duly took a running leap off the top of a tall building.
What's happening now is an attempt to make the landing less painful.
This reminds me of the famous French film La Haine:
C'est l'histoire d'un homme qui tombe d'un immeuble de 50 étages. Le mec, au fur et à mesure de sa chute, il se répète sans cesse pour se rassurer : " Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien. " Mais l'important, c'est pas la chute. C'est l'atterrissage.
(It's the story of a man who falls from a fifty floor building. All the way down, the guy keeps on reassuring himself by repeating, "So far so good... So far so good... So far so good. " But it's not the fall that matters. It's the landing.)
That's what I have been trying to remember all along. I remember watching La Haine when it came out and this has been in the back of my mind all the way through the Brexshitstorm, which is now only just beginning.
Congratulations to my fellow citizens on their lack of basic intelligence and imagination.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
There is no such thing as success when it comes to Brexit, only degrees of failure.
The good citizens of the United Kingdom of course. See Matthew 5.45.
You utter shitweazel. This crap is on you and your fellows. Own it. Deal with it. It's yours and yours alone. You've thrown it over the rest of us and sat down. That is simply not forgiveable.
For the sake of your health and well being, I recommend that you calm down.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
Who is this 'we'? You're not going to do any of the work to make Brexit anything. You're retired. You've dumped this mess on everyone else to sort out.
Yours is the sort of attitude that we do not need if Brexit is not to be a disaster. In order to stop this mess from becoming a disaster we need to have our eyes open and accept that Brexit is not going to be a success.
If you don't think it will be a success, it may not be.
For the sake of my health and wellbeing I recommend you fuck off, you sack of sanctimonious shit.
Stating this without identifying exactly what they were asked is exactly the lack of rigour I'd expect.
What the people were asked about actually happened back at the end of January. "Do we jump?" they were asked. "Yes", the people cried and so the UK duly took a running leap off the top of a tall building.
What's happening now is an attempt to make the landing less painful.
This reminds me of the famous French film La Haine:
C'est l'histoire d'un homme qui tombe d'un immeuble de 50 étages. Le mec, au fur et à mesure de sa chute, il se répète sans cesse pour se rassurer : " Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien. " Mais l'important, c'est pas la chute. C'est l'atterrissage.
(It's the story of a man who falls from a fifty floor building. All the way down, the guy keeps on reassuring himself by repeating, "So far so good... So far so good... So far so good. " But it's not the fall that matters. It's the landing.)
That's what I have been trying to remember all along. I remember watching La Haine when it came out and this has been in the back of my mind all the way through the Brexshitstorm, which is now only just beginning.
Congratulations to my fellow citizens on their lack of basic intelligence and imagination.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
There is no such thing as success when it comes to Brexit, only degrees of failure.
The good citizens of the United Kingdom of course. See Matthew 5.45.
You utter shitweazel. This crap is on you and your fellows. Own it. Deal with it. It's yours and yours alone. You've thrown it over the rest of us and sat down. That is simply not forgiveable.
For the sake of your health and well being, I recommend that you calm down.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
Who is this 'we'? You're not going to do any of the work to make Brexit anything. You're retired. You've dumped this mess on everyone else to sort out.
Yours is the sort of attitude that we do not need if Brexit is not to be a disaster. In order to stop this mess from becoming a disaster we need to have our eyes open and accept that Brexit is not going to be a success.
If you don't think it will be a success, it may not be.
For the sake of my health and wellbeing I recommend you fuck off, you sack of sanctimonious shit.
Are you able to communicate without using profanities ?
As regards the *United Kingdom*, the prospects of a united Ireland and an independent Scotland are perhaps more likely now than at any time in the recent past.
At which point I'll ask if a parent born in Scotland is sufficient to acquire me a Scottish passport.
Stating this without identifying exactly what they were asked is exactly the lack of rigour I'd expect.
What the people were asked about actually happened back at the end of January. "Do we jump?" they were asked. "Yes", the people cried and so the UK duly took a running leap off the top of a tall building.
What's happening now is an attempt to make the landing less painful.
This reminds me of the famous French film La Haine:
C'est l'histoire d'un homme qui tombe d'un immeuble de 50 étages. Le mec, au fur et à mesure de sa chute, il se répète sans cesse pour se rassurer : " Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien. " Mais l'important, c'est pas la chute. C'est l'atterrissage.
(It's the story of a man who falls from a fifty floor building. All the way down, the guy keeps on reassuring himself by repeating, "So far so good... So far so good... So far so good. " But it's not the fall that matters. It's the landing.)
That's what I have been trying to remember all along. I remember watching La Haine when it came out and this has been in the back of my mind all the way through the Brexshitstorm, which is now only just beginning.
Congratulations to my fellow citizens on their lack of basic intelligence and imagination.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
There is no such thing as success when it comes to Brexit, only degrees of failure.
The good citizens of the United Kingdom of course. See Matthew 5.45.
You utter shitweazel. This crap is on you and your fellows. Own it. Deal with it. It's yours and yours alone. You've thrown it over the rest of us and sat down. That is simply not forgiveable.
For the sake of your health and well being, I recommend that you calm down.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
Who is this 'we'? You're not going to do any of the work to make Brexit anything. You're retired. You've dumped this mess on everyone else to sort out.
Yours is the sort of attitude that we do not need if Brexit is not to be a disaster. In order to stop this mess from becoming a disaster we need to have our eyes open and accept that Brexit is not going to be a success.
If you don't think it will be a success, it may not be.
For the sake of my health and wellbeing I recommend you fuck off, you sack of sanctimonious shit.
Stating this without identifying exactly what they were asked is exactly the lack of rigour I'd expect.
What the people were asked about actually happened back at the end of January. "Do we jump?" they were asked. "Yes", the people cried and so the UK duly took a running leap off the top of a tall building.
What's happening now is an attempt to make the landing less painful.
This reminds me of the famous French film La Haine:
C'est l'histoire d'un homme qui tombe d'un immeuble de 50 étages. Le mec, au fur et à mesure de sa chute, il se répète sans cesse pour se rassurer : " Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien. " Mais l'important, c'est pas la chute. C'est l'atterrissage.
(It's the story of a man who falls from a fifty floor building. All the way down, the guy keeps on reassuring himself by repeating, "So far so good... So far so good... So far so good. " But it's not the fall that matters. It's the landing.)
That's what I have been trying to remember all along. I remember watching La Haine when it came out and this has been in the back of my mind all the way through the Brexshitstorm, which is now only just beginning.
Congratulations to my fellow citizens on their lack of basic intelligence and imagination.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
There is no such thing as success when it comes to Brexit, only degrees of failure.
The good citizens of the United Kingdom of course. See Matthew 5.45.
You utter shitweazel. This crap is on you and your fellows. Own it. Deal with it. It's yours and yours alone. You've thrown it over the rest of us and sat down. That is simply not forgiveable.
For the sake of your health and well being, I recommend that you calm down.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
Who is this 'we'? You're not going to do any of the work to make Brexit anything. You're retired. You've dumped this mess on everyone else to sort out.
Yours is the sort of attitude that we do not need if Brexit is not to be a disaster. In order to stop this mess from becoming a disaster we need to have our eyes open and accept that Brexit is not going to be a success.
If you don't think it will be a success, it may not be.
For the sake of my health and wellbeing I recommend you fuck off, you sack of sanctimonious shit.
Are you able to communicate without using profanities ?
Doesn’t matter this is Hell. As you know so he can use strong language.
We plan that British citizens habitually resident in Scotland on independence will be considered Scottish citizens. This will include British citizens who hold dual citizenship with another country. Scottish born British citizens currently living outside of Scotland will also be considered Scottish citizens.
Following independence, other people will be able to apply for Scottish citizenship. For example, citizenship by descent will be available to those who have a parent or grandparent who qualifies for Scottish citizenship.
I'd be very surprised if that part of the question is re-written for the forthcoming referendum. There'll be more than enough work trying to identify a way to manage the border with England to revisit thing which hadn't changed as we entered the post-Brexit generation.
Marginally better than no deal. Sure. Far worse than what we gave up when the UK Parliament defied democracy in March 2017 by approving leaving the EU before the people had had a chance to vote on the detailed policy of the government as to what they would seek.
The people had been asked in 2016 and a verdict had been delivered. It was then a matter for Parliament to sort it out
Again the people were not asked if we shoud leave or not. They were asked to tell the government what they thought. The government decided it would follow the outcome. It was the government who decided not the people. Keep up there’s a good chap.
We have to be realistic about how things will go after we finally leave. Not all gung-ho. We are in for pain. The level of pain is perhaps debatable, the fact we are going to suffer is not. Those that will suffer most are those who Jesus told us to rake care of.
Stating this without identifying exactly what they were asked is exactly the lack of rigour I'd expect.
What the people were asked about actually happened back at the end of January. "Do we jump?" they were asked. "Yes", the people cried and so the UK duly took a running leap off the top of a tall building.
What's happening now is an attempt to make the landing less painful.
This reminds me of the famous French film La Haine:
C'est l'histoire d'un homme qui tombe d'un immeuble de 50 étages. Le mec, au fur et à mesure de sa chute, il se répète sans cesse pour se rassurer : " Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien. " Mais l'important, c'est pas la chute. C'est l'atterrissage.
(It's the story of a man who falls from a fifty floor building. All the way down, the guy keeps on reassuring himself by repeating, "So far so good... So far so good... So far so good. " But it's not the fall that matters. It's the landing.)
That's what I have been trying to remember all along. I remember watching La Haine when it came out and this has been in the back of my mind all the way through the Brexshitstorm, which is now only just beginning.
Congratulations to my fellow citizens on their lack of basic intelligence and imagination.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
There is no such thing as success when it comes to Brexit, only degrees of failure.
The good citizens of the United Kingdom of course. See Matthew 5.45.
You utter shitweazel. This crap is on you and your fellows. Own it. Deal with it. It's yours and yours alone. You've thrown it over the rest of us and sat down. That is simply not forgiveable.
For the sake of your health and well being, I recommend that you calm down.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
Who is this 'we'? You're not going to do any of the work to make Brexit anything. You're retired. You've dumped this mess on everyone else to sort out.
Yours is the sort of attitude that we do not need if Brexit is not to be a disaster. In order to stop this mess from becoming a disaster we need to have our eyes open and accept that Brexit is not going to be a success.
If you don't think it will be a success, it may not be.
For the sake of my health and wellbeing I recommend you fuck off, you sack of sanctimonious shit.
Stating this without identifying exactly what they were asked is exactly the lack of rigour I'd expect.
What the people were asked about actually happened back at the end of January. "Do we jump?" they were asked. "Yes", the people cried and so the UK duly took a running leap off the top of a tall building.
What's happening now is an attempt to make the landing less painful.
This reminds me of the famous French film La Haine:
C'est l'histoire d'un homme qui tombe d'un immeuble de 50 étages. Le mec, au fur et à mesure de sa chute, il se répète sans cesse pour se rassurer : " Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien. " Mais l'important, c'est pas la chute. C'est l'atterrissage.
(It's the story of a man who falls from a fifty floor building. All the way down, the guy keeps on reassuring himself by repeating, "So far so good... So far so good... So far so good. " But it's not the fall that matters. It's the landing.)
That's what I have been trying to remember all along. I remember watching La Haine when it came out and this has been in the back of my mind all the way through the Brexshitstorm, which is now only just beginning.
Congratulations to my fellow citizens on their lack of basic intelligence and imagination.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
There is no such thing as success when it comes to Brexit, only degrees of failure.
The good citizens of the United Kingdom of course. See Matthew 5.45.
You utter shitweazel. This crap is on you and your fellows. Own it. Deal with it. It's yours and yours alone. You've thrown it over the rest of us and sat down. That is simply not forgiveable.
For the sake of your health and well being, I recommend that you calm down.
This is the sort of attitude tjhat we do not need if we are to make a success of btexit.
Who is this 'we'? You're not going to do any of the work to make Brexit anything. You're retired. You've dumped this mess on everyone else to sort out.
Yours is the sort of attitude that we do not need if Brexit is not to be a disaster. In order to stop this mess from becoming a disaster we need to have our eyes open and accept that Brexit is not going to be a success.
If you don't think it will be a success, it may not be.
For the sake of my health and wellbeing I recommend you fuck off, you sack of sanctimonious shit.
Are you able to communicate without using profanities ?
Doesn’t matter this is Hell. As you know so he can use strong language.
The rule is that you can. The rule isn't that you have to. It's not obligatory.
Marginally better than no deal. Sure. Far worse than what we gave up when the UK Parliament defied democracy in March 2017 by approving leaving the EU before the people had had a chance to vote on the detailed policy of the government as to what they would seek.
The people had been asked in 2016 and a verdict had been delivered. It was then a matter for Parliament to sort it out
Again the people were not asked if we shoud leave or not. They were asked to tell the government what they thought. The government decided it would follow the outcome. It was the government who decided not the people. Keep up there’s a good chap.
We have to be realistic about how things will go after we finally leave. Not all gung-ho. We are in for pain. The level of pain is perhaps debatable, the fact we are going to suffer is not. Those that will suffer most are those who Jesus told us to rake care of.
The two major parties voted for the referendum and said on many occasions that they would carry out the result.
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
A majority - small but still a majority - voted to leave the EU.
A majority of nearly 4%. The problem is that the voters had been promised that the government would act on a simple majority rather than something more substantial like 10% in favour of leaving.
Stating this without identifying exactly what they were asked is exactly the lack of rigour I'd expect.
Did I really need to state the obvious? The question was about leaving or staying in the EU.
You do need to state the obvious, because the deal apparently just negotiated was not about that question.
I was, of course, on about the 2016 referendum.
The referendum is completely irrelevant to the 'deal or no deal' question. The referendum didn't in any way ask people a follow-up question as to what should happen next if Brexit came to pass. Not least because those setting up the referendum didn't expect Brexit to happen.
That's the point, and it sailed right over your head. Saying that the people were asked completely ignores that the people were simply not given detail as to what would happen afterwards.
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
A majority - small but still a majority - voted to leave the EU.
A majority of nearly 4%. The problem is that the voters had been promised that the government would act on a simple majority rather than something more substantial like 10% in favour of leaving.
We've been through this before. If you require more than a 50% + 1, you're giving power to the minority, whereas majority rule is the standard. How would you react if, under your FPTP and optional voting system, a candidate had to achieve at least 55% of the vote to be elected?
Stating this without identifying exactly what they were asked is exactly the lack of rigour I'd expect.
Did I really need to state the obvious? The question was about leaving or staying in the EU.
You do need to state the obvious, because the deal apparently just negotiated was not about that question.
I was, of course, on about the 2016 referendum.
The referendum is completely irrelevant to the 'deal or no deal' question. The referendum didn't in any way ask people a follow-up question as to what should happen next if Brexit came to pass. Not least because those setting up the referendum didn't expect Brexit to happen.
That's the point, and it sailed right over your head. Saying that the people were asked completely ignores that the people were simply not given detail as to what would happen afterwards.
You can go further, the Brexiters didnt have a clue what should happen next, and they still dont. We are flying blind, see Boris on non tariff barriers. Eh, what's that?
As @orfeo points out, the referendum (such as it was) is now irrelevant.
Brexshit is about to be finalised, by the looks of it, and I should like @Telford, who has used the word *success* in reference to the Deal, to answer the question I asked a while ago. Here it is again:
Sorry again, I will give up that train of thought, and just say that negotiations in many areas can now begin, as a platform has been arrived at! Years of discussion lie ahead.
As @orfeo points out, the referendum (such as it was) is now irrelevant.
Brexshit is about to be finalised, by the looks of it, and I should like @Telford, who has used the word *success* in reference to the Deal, to answer the question I asked a while ago. Here it is again:
In what way(s) might Brexshit be a *success*?
Try to be specific...
Brexshit would not be a success, but that's not what we have.
As @orfeo points out, the referendum (such as it was) is now irrelevant.
Brexshit is about to be finalised, by the looks of it, and I should like @Telford, who has used the word *success* in reference to the Deal, to answer the question I asked a while ago. Here it is again:
In what way(s) might Brexshit be a *success*?
Try to be specific...
Brexshit would not be a success, but that's not what we have.
So what do we have? And how will it (whatever it is - call it The Deal, if you like) be of benefit to *The Man On The Clapham Omnibus*?
The word "Brexit" was made up to cover up all the complexity and make it sound like a single simple decision. It should be explicated fully - blowing up our most fundamental relationships for spite, replacing them with next to nothing.
Yes, I thought that, but decided it was too pettifogging to be worthy of comment...
@Telford , however, referred to the Deal in a previous post, so I now take him up on that word, and ask what I believe (and I hope others will agree) is a peaceable, legitimate, and reasonable question.
I suppose I'd better add a link to the derivation of the term The Man On The Clapham Omnibus, in case he misses the point. It's a legal term, in a way, but usefully descriptive of the average person, I guess. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_on_the_Clapham_omnibus
I'm afraid @Telford knows full well where we are, but (I suspect) secretly enjoys being the recipient of opprobrious epithets. It gives him the chance to act as *Outraged Of Somewhere*...
Meanwhile, I await his carefully crafted answer to my question as to the benefits of The Deal which is the outcome of the negotiations - and, BTW, thanks to @ThunderBunk for the succinct definition of Brexit.
All too true, alas (as the Lord Protector might say, albeit perhaps in another context).
I hear some interesting comments that Boris doesn't understand the deal he has signed up to, see his comments on non tariff barriers, which he claimed, didn't exist. They do.
The problem is that the benefits, if such there be, are not economic but political. And here you hit against sovereignty, whose meaning floats around.
Political benefits may well be short term if the economics are sufficiently bad. Although, then the art will be in declaring that the economics are all someone else's fault.
Yes, I thought that, but decided it was too pettifogging to be worthy of comment...
@Telford , however, referred to the Deal in a previous post, so I now take him up on that word, and ask what I believe (and I hope others will agree) is a peaceable, legitimate, and reasonable question.
I suppose I'd better add a link to the derivation of the term The Man On The Clapham Omnibus, in case he misses the point. It's a legal term, in a way, but usefully descriptive of the average person, I guess. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_on_the_Clapham_omnibus
The Prime MInister and other cabinet ministers have described the benefits of the deal far better than I ever could.
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
A majority - small but still a majority - voted to leave the EU.
No it asked us to tell the government that. It was not an In/out vote but an indicative one. If it wasn’t when it was found out that leave had been naughty we would have had to run it again. May got round that by saying it was an indicative vote. You have not fully quoted what was on the paper. If the government hadn’t already agreed to follow the result it needn’t have left at all. It was indicative
The Prime MInister and other cabinet ministers have described the benefits of the deal far better than I ever could.
The Prime Minister has been called quite the most accomplished liar who has ever run this country. He's spent his entire career lying about the EU, and the last four and a half lying about the advantages of Brexit. Also there is no guarantee he actually knows or understands what is in the deal as that would require him to have read it. He claims he didn't understand the withdrawal agreement he signed last year, and for once I think there I think he lied himself right round into the truth by accident
The Prime MInister and other cabinet ministers have described the benefits of the deal far better than I ever could.
You know, there probably are benefits of the deal relative to a no deal Brexit.
The more interesting question is whether there are benefits of the deal relative to not having gone through the whole process and just staying in the EU.
The Prime MInister and other cabinet ministers have described the benefits of the deal far better than I ever could.
The Prime Minister has been called quite the most accomplished liar who has ever run this country. He's spent his entire career lying about the EU, and the last four and a half lying about the advantages of Brexit. Also there is no guarantee he actually knows or understands what is in the deal as that would require him to have read it. He claims he didn't understand the withdrawal agreement he signed last year, and for once I think there I think he lied himself right round into the truth by accident
The problem is that you are biased against him and his party
The Prime MInister and other cabinet ministers have described the benefits of the deal far better than I ever could.
You know, there probably are benefits of the deal relative to a no deal Brexit.
The more interesting question is whether there are benefits of the deal relative to not having gone through the whole process and just staying in the EU.
The Prime Minister has been called quite the most accomplished liar who has ever run this country. He's spent his entire career lying about the EU, and the last four and a half lying about the advantages of Brexit. Also there is no guarantee he actually knows or understands what is in the deal as that would require him to have read it. He claims he didn't understand the withdrawal agreement he signed last year, and for once I think there I think he lied himself right round into the truth by accident
The problem is that you are biased against him and his party
Do you disagree with any of what I said? I know you agree about Johnson being the most accomplished liar who has ever run this country, because when I posted a quote from Rory Stewart saying that you commended it.
The Prime MInister and other cabinet ministers have described the benefits of the deal far better than I ever could.
The Prime Minister has been called quite the most accomplished liar who has ever run this country. He's spent his entire career lying about the EU, and the last four and a half lying about the advantages of Brexit. Also there is no guarantee he actually knows or understands what is in the deal as that would require him to have read it. He claims he didn't understand the withdrawal agreement he signed last year, and for once I think there I think he lied himself right round into the truth by accident
The problem is that you are biased against him and his party
The Prime MInister and other cabinet ministers have described the benefits of the deal far better than I ever could.
You know, there probably are benefits of the deal relative to a no deal Brexit.
The more interesting question is whether there are benefits of the deal relative to not having gone through the whole process and just staying in the EU.
Brexit is more than just trade.
No the problem is he is right. We have been over Boris’s lies often on the ship so I won’t do it again. Suffice to say you cannot trust anything he says.
Yes Brexit is more than trade. It is losing and not replacing rights. It is giving the government, any government the right to cut minimum holidays and have no cap on working hours. You must remember when the Conservatives had a recommended minimum wage. They won’t even have to that now. They are responsible only to Parliament which currently they have a very large majority in.
So yes it is not just about trade.
Remember, the PM would have probably said almost identical things in praise of whatever deal his negotiators had come out of the meetings with, or indeed if they'd come out without producing any deal at all. His praise of the deal was largely huff-and-puff empty phrases and generic "Britain is Great" rhetoric that hadn't changed since he splashed the wrong number on the side of a bus in 2016. It was almost as though he hadn't read the agreement, and so was unable to quote specific sections and explain why they were superior to EU membership, or even no-deal.
The Prime Minister has been called quite the most accomplished liar who has ever run this country. He's spent his entire career lying about the EU, and the last four and a half lying about the advantages of Brexit. Also there is no guarantee he actually knows or understands what is in the deal as that would require him to have read it. He claims he didn't understand the withdrawal agreement he signed last year, and for once I think there I think he lied himself right round into the truth by accident
The problem is that you are biased against him and his party
Do you disagree with any of what I said? I know you agree about Johnson being the most accomplished liar who has ever run this country, because when I posted a quote from Rory Stewart saying that you commended it.
Referring a simple question to the Father Of Lies (Boris Johnson, in case you've misunderstood) implies that you are more likely to tell hideous fibs than he is...
Well, yes - but as it's the season of goodwill, I thought I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Dunno why I bothered, mind - the sausage sandwich I'm about to have for lunch is more important...
Referring a simple question to the Father Of Lies (Boris Johnson, in case you've misunderstood) implies that you are more likely to tell hideous fibs than he is...
I don't tell lies. I don't do insults. Is that plain enough for you ?
Comments
I think the deal will pass, but you make a valid point.
As regards the *United Kingdom*, the prospects of a united Ireland and an independent Scotland are perhaps more likely now than at any time in the recent past. Quite what will happen to Wales is a moot point, as there's a desire for independence on the part of at least some Welsh people.
Charles III may well find himself as king of just *England*...
The rest of Europe is probably only too happy to bid us Good Riddance...even though some businesses in the EU will be adversely affected.
Still, as we're constantly being reminded, it's what *we* voted for.
If you don't think it will be a success, it may not be.
Try to be specific.
For the sake of my health and wellbeing I recommend you fuck off, you sack of sanctimonious shit.
Are you able to communicate without using profanities ?
At which point I'll ask if a parent born in Scotland is sufficient to acquire me a Scottish passport.
Doesn’t matter this is Hell. As you know so he can use strong language.
I'd be very surprised if that part of the question is re-written for the forthcoming referendum. There'll be more than enough work trying to identify a way to manage the border with England to revisit thing which hadn't changed as we entered the post-Brexit generation.
We have to be realistic about how things will go after we finally leave. Not all gung-ho. We are in for pain. The level of pain is perhaps debatable, the fact we are going to suffer is not. Those that will suffer most are those who Jesus told us to rake care of.
You are normally a sensible poster but that was a daft question. Howeveer, I would be daft to think you would ever take my side
The rule is that you can. The rule isn't that you have to. It's not obligatory.
The two major parties voted for the referendum and said on many occasions that they would carry out the result.
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
A majority - small but still a majority - voted to leave the EU.
The referendum is completely irrelevant to the 'deal or no deal' question. The referendum didn't in any way ask people a follow-up question as to what should happen next if Brexit came to pass. Not least because those setting up the referendum didn't expect Brexit to happen.
That's the point, and it sailed right over your head. Saying that the people were asked completely ignores that the people were simply not given detail as to what would happen afterwards.
We've been through this before. If you require more than a 50% + 1, you're giving power to the minority, whereas majority rule is the standard. How would you react if, under your FPTP and optional voting system, a candidate had to achieve at least 55% of the vote to be elected?
You can go further, the Brexiters didnt have a clue what should happen next, and they still dont. We are flying blind, see Boris on non tariff barriers. Eh, what's that?
Yes.
@Telford, if you don’t like the heat.... be a good chap and get out of the kitchen...... or in this case Hell?
At the Very least read the guidelines?
Brexshit is about to be finalised, by the looks of it, and I should like @Telford, who has used the word *success* in reference to the Deal, to answer the question I asked a while ago. Here it is again:
In what way(s) might Brexshit be a *success*?
Try to be specific...
Brexshit would not be a success, but that's not what we have.
OK, you have your brownie points. Do you have anything relevvant to say about the subject of the thread.?
Do you? First time for everything I suppose.
So what do we have? And how will it (whatever it is - call it The Deal, if you like) be of benefit to *The Man On The Clapham Omnibus*?
@Telford , however, referred to the Deal in a previous post, so I now take him up on that word, and ask what I believe (and I hope others will agree) is a peaceable, legitimate, and reasonable question.
I suppose I'd better add a link to the derivation of the term The Man On The Clapham Omnibus, in case he misses the point. It's a legal term, in a way, but usefully descriptive of the average person, I guess.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_on_the_Clapham_omnibus
Nope. I don’t do that stuff.
Just quietly sitting here, trying to follow logical reasoning and hoping to Learn Something.
Tbh I thought maybe you d forgotten we are in Hell. Easily happens.
Meanwhile, I await his carefully crafted answer to my question as to the benefits of The Deal which is the outcome of the negotiations - and, BTW, thanks to @ThunderBunk for the succinct definition of Brexit.
All too true, alas (as the Lord Protector might say, albeit perhaps in another context).
Well, quite.
*Sovereignty* is something which, in a sense, is impossible to pin down, but I live in hope that @Telford will come along soon to enlighten us.
Political benefits may well be short term if the economics are sufficiently bad. Although, then the art will be in declaring that the economics are all someone else's fault.
Wrong. I fully understood and ignored the name.
The Prime MInister and other cabinet ministers have described the benefits of the deal far better than I ever could.
Supreme power or authority....Other dictionary definitions are available
And you believe them? Why?
No it asked us to tell the government that. It was not an In/out vote but an indicative one. If it wasn’t when it was found out that leave had been naughty we would have had to run it again. May got round that by saying it was an indicative vote. You have not fully quoted what was on the paper. If the government hadn’t already agreed to follow the result it needn’t have left at all. It was indicative
You know, there probably are benefits of the deal relative to a no deal Brexit.
The more interesting question is whether there are benefits of the deal relative to not having gone through the whole process and just staying in the EU.
No the problem is he is right. We have been over Boris’s lies often on the ship so I won’t do it again. Suffice to say you cannot trust anything he says.
Yes Brexit is more than trade. It is losing and not replacing rights. It is giving the government, any government the right to cut minimum holidays and have no cap on working hours. You must remember when the Conservatives had a recommended minimum wage. They won’t even have to that now. They are responsible only to Parliament which currently they have a very large majority in.
So yes it is not just about trade.
And there was me thinking that we might get the benefit of Telford's own personal thoughts as to what success(es) Brexit might bring us.
Assumes facts not in evidence.
He knows more about it than me. That's why I refered you
Referring a simple question to the Father Of Lies (Boris Johnson, in case you've misunderstood) implies that you are more likely to tell hideous fibs than he is...
Well, yes - but as it's the season of goodwill, I thought I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Dunno why I bothered, mind - the sausage sandwich I'm about to have for lunch is more important...
I don't tell lies. I don't do insults. Is that plain enough for you ?