Come forth!
in Purgatory
A sort of New Year Resolution, which I invite shippies to share. Let us rediscover that little, old, powerful, uncompromising word 'forth'. The dictionary declares it to be archaic, except for one or two compound words like 'forthwith' and forthright. If we cannot turn the clock back, perhaps we can at least learn to recognize the value of this half-forgotten concept - that to 'go forth' demands effort, determination, a sense of purpose and direction.
It's a much-used invigorating tool in the bible. I used to think that humankind was instructed from the outset to 'go forth and multiply'. I checked. I was wrong. We were told 'be fruitful, and multiply...' an interesting nuance, since God did tell the earth to 'put forth vegetation', and the waters to 'bring forth swarms of living creatures' and the earth to 'bring forth living creatures of every kind...'
And throughout the Old Testament God and men came forth, went forth, and were sent forth...the living world was told to get off its lazy backside - there was stuff to do, to enjoy, to make, to love, to care for, fight for, cherish.
It's a much-used invigorating tool in the bible. I used to think that humankind was instructed from the outset to 'go forth and multiply'. I checked. I was wrong. We were told 'be fruitful, and multiply...' an interesting nuance, since God did tell the earth to 'put forth vegetation', and the waters to 'bring forth swarms of living creatures' and the earth to 'bring forth living creatures of every kind...'
And throughout the Old Testament God and men came forth, went forth, and were sent forth...the living world was told to get off its lazy backside - there was stuff to do, to enjoy, to make, to love, to care for, fight for, cherish.
Comments
My daily labour to pursue,
Thee, only thee, resolved to know
In all I think. or speak, or do.
Charles Wesley
I recall not only Sally Forth but Gay Abandon who was Rick’s squeeze ( circa 1962)
I imagine you'll spend a few extra decades in Purgatory for that one...
The word “forth” perhaps being archaic—at least in some places according to some dictionaries—is not the same as the idea it represents being a “half-forgotten concept.” It doesn’t seem at all forgotten to me.
"From forth the loins of these two foes a pair of star-crossed lovers take their life, whose misadventured piteous overthrows do with their death bury their parents' strife ..."
Meanwhile, the expression “hold forth” is still very common here (the American South).
Go forth, Christian soul, from this world
in the name of God the almighty Father,
who created you,
in the name of Jesus Christ,
Son of the living God,
who suffered for you,
in the name of the Holy Spirit,
who was poured out upon you,
go forth, faithful Christian.
May you live in peace this day,
may your home be with God in Zion,
with Mary, the virgin Mother of God,
with Joseph, and all the angels and saints.
I was privileged to use it with my mother in law as she died.
Elgar sets it magnificently in Gerontius to a slightly different translation...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAbOgpcSEYg
Modern bible translations, though, sometimes seem to be a bit coy when they use "go out" or simply "go" where an older version has "go forth" = it doesn't have the same 'bite' IMHO. ISTM that they "went forth" rather more enthusiastically in Old Testament times. And once you water down a powerful expression, it becomes vulnerable to further softening or idiosyncratic interpretation. Of course I may be totally wrong. Perhaps I'm getting too set in my ways.
Ah, I forgot one of my favorites! I of course hold forth quite regularly.
It could be worse. Much worse.
(Apologies for the lack of brain-bleach, The lorry has been turned back at the border - incorrect paperwork).
The relatively-modern hymn *Go forth and tell! O Church of God, awake!* may be the sort of thing the OPer was thinking of?
I guess I’m not seeing any real difference in terms of meaning between “go forth” and “go out (into).”
I’d be interested in the take @Eutychus has from a translation standpoint.
(This is the First time, but if necessary, I'll post it four times ...)
??? ... I missed it ...
Though I guess technically, he referred to the bridges, not the Firth itself.
While this is a striking instance, in many lesser ways a strict word for word translation can miss or obscure the meaning of the original phrase.
‘Forth’ has a range of meanings (forward in time, place, or order; onward; out into view; away from a specified place; abroad; out of; from), but it is also (outside a few stock phrases) rather elevated language which may go beyond the original intention. ‘I went out to empty the bins’ is (in UK English) a normal sentence. ‘I went forth to empty the bins’, while denoting exactly the same activity, has connotations of grandeur which are absurd in the context. It might have been a reasonable statement in another age when ‘forth’ was more commonly used, but it is faintly ridiculous in contemporary English.
(I suspect that the text used in the interlinear is either AV/KJV or ASV/RV)
To start with the assumption that each Greek word has one and only one acceptable English translation is to start with a faulty assumption. The only difference I see is one that you may lie in your interpretation: that “forth” suggests more enthusiasm than “out.” That seems to me to be a connotation you’re bringing to the words, not an inherent meaning of “forth.” To the contrary, I’d say that the point made by a number of people is that “forth,” while perhaps not archaic, carries connotations of formality or perhaps grandeur.
I do note that Strong’s indicates that the meaning of the root of the word you’re asking about—exerchomai—is “to go or come out of.”
There are more important things to be worried about, such as the correct use of the Oxford comma, or the correct use of the apostrophe.
As far as I'm concerned it's archaic, preserved only in idiomatic phrases, and has no difference in meaning from "go out (into)", and so far as I know (which is not very far) there is no Greek term corresponding specifically to the English term "forth".
so here now is
The Fourth Firth of Forth ...
It's a difference of register. It makes it sound more noble than it originally did.
I'm reminded of @mousethief's complaint many years ago about Gandalf's declaration about the capital of Rohan: "Edoras, and the Golden Hall of Meduseld. There dwells Theoden, King of Rohan" which as he had it, as I recall, could more simply be put: That is Edoras, and the golden hall is called Meduseld. Theoden King of Rohan lives there".
But alas John came fifth, so he won the toaster.
(eta: punching it up a bit)
Do you read poetry? Did you ever hear a decent poet allow that the odd word here or there doesn't matter?
One of the problems any would-be translator faces is not only finding *the* correct word to express (1) the meaning of the word being translated, but also, one hopes, (2) what the writer intended to say (which may mean that the context is as important as -- or sometimes even more so than -- a particular choice of a word ... This can be an especially *tricky* bit since many words don't have a single hard-fast "meaning" but may represent a range of meanings ...
A non-Biblical language example ...
My favorite German word is "ausgezeichnet," which is generally translated into English as, "excellent" ... but that is a very pale imitation of the actual *meaning* ... "Ein Zeichen" is a "sign," as per, say, an "exclamation point" ... So, "ausgezeichnet" best translates as "so good, there is no sign for it" ...
But ... In actual usage, "to go out" is a mamby-pamby phrase about a change of physical location, while, "to go forth" carries the implication of a bold purposefulness ... "to go forth into battle," etc. ...
Go out into the world in peace;
have courage;
hold on to what is good;
return no one evil for evil;
strengthen the fainthearted;
support the weak,
and help the suffering;
honor all people;
love and serve the Lord,
rejoicing in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Nothing namby-pamby about that to my mind.
But even if “go forth” does have an implication of bold purposefulness that “go out” lacks, is that same bold purposefulness implied by the Greek exēlthen? And if it is not, then on what basis is “went out” a less accurate translation than “went forth,” as seems to be suggested in this thread?
Accurate translation is important, but is it possible? I suppose it is a little more possible with the NT, but still. As @BroJames says you can translate the words, but absent the context, not only on the page but in the cultural setting of the writer, that's not enough.
Even today, with all the attention I have put into understanding American politics, names and places which would bring a whole set of ideas with them are lost on me. I understand it when people say McCarthy. But what other totemic words pass me by, full of meaning to those who know? I can immerse myself in the language and ideas of America, but there will still be things that I miss, and I am of our time. How many more shades of meaning have been lost over the centuries since Revelation was composed?
I imagine reading Homer is a similar experience.
Traduire, c'est interpreter; 'to translate is to interpret' (and even that doesn't quite get the flavour of the original).
The problem with 'go forth' is that in contemporary English it has acquired overtones (referred to here in terms of an extra sense of purposefulness, or destiny, or some such) that, so far as I'm aware, simply aren't there in the original. I can think of no straightforward way of rendering the sense attributed to it in the OP in French.
There might be legitimate uses for that translation (for instance, a more poetic and thus more memorable rendering, as in the chorus "you shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace...") but a conscientious translator, especially of Scripture, should take care to avoid adding unnecessary or misleading layers of meaning1.
Similarly, preachers should take care to ensure their exposition isn't founded on the connotations of the word used in their favourite translation rather than those of the source word, especially if some analysis reveals that its translation into other modern languages has none of the same connotations. I have had to discard what I thought were many fine expository points over the years due to this process2.
1I do believe however that Bible translation is legitimate and that Scripture, and revelation, is designed to be translated. But that's another topic.
2Trivial recent example: don't make much of King Lemuel being from Massa before checking a few other translations.