Cops are always right!

Had he submitted to being taken into custody there would have been no problem ...

Two words: Tamir Rice. A twelve-year-old child. The cops pulled up to the playground he was playing at and shot him dead within thirty seconds of arriving at the scene. Justify that one.

Justify Officer Scott Patrick being murdered by Brian Fitch ...
Justify my great uncle -- a town cop -- being murdered when he interrupted a burglary in progress ...

Apparently @Fr Teilhard's tongue is so coated in boot polish that he can't even manage to spit out the words "gunning down a child on a playground is wrong, even when a cop does it."

Fuck off. Fuck off so hard your dick explodes and you die of it and you meet Emmett Till's murderers in hell. And take your gun-happy cop buddies with you.
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Comments

  • @Fr Teilhard uses whataboutery wtit large.

    His reasons for that are his own. To me they seem to be full of fear and emotion.

    He’s wrong. Police should be unarmed and part of their community, set on crime prevention. Not racist murderers given white cowboy hats to cover their evil deeds.

    What’s changed is smart phones. Now we can all see what has been happening for years in the US.
  • What an idiotic response. Truly.
  • Worth bearing in mind that the UK has had an armed police force as a matter of course, in Northern Ireland for some decades now. The circumstances, it could be argued, were very different. I don't know, even now, if you could say it was/is a good or a bad strategy. But I think the restrictions of arms use for the RUC (however abused it may have been at times) was generally restrictive enough to make the police less than willing to use them, given a choice. I've had relatives in the police who never fired a shot in long careers (even at the height of the Troubles) and who considered it more trouble than it was worth to even take the thing out of the holster (unless absolutely close to death). There are infamous exceptions, no doubt.
  • Had he submitted to being taken into custody there would have been no problem ...

    Two words: Tamir Rice. A twelve-year-old child. The cops pulled up to the playground he was playing at and shot him dead within thirty seconds of arriving at the scene. Justify that one.

    Justify Officer Scott Patrick being murdered by Brian Fitch ...
    Justify my great uncle -- a town cop -- being murdered when he interrupted a burglary in progress ...

    Apparently @Fr Teilhard's tongue is so coated in boot polish that he can't even manage to spit out the words "gunning down a child on a playground is wrong, even when a cop does it."

    Fuck off. Fuck off so hard your dick explodes and you die of it and you meet Emmett Till's murderers in hell. And take your gun-happy cop buddies with you.

    LOL ... and may Bless you real good, too ...
  • Boogie wrote: »
    @Fr Teilhard uses whataboutery wtit large.

    His reasons for that are his own. To me they seem to be full of fear and emotion.

    He’s wrong. Police should be unarmed and part of their community, set on crime prevention. Not racist murderers given white cowboy hats to cover their evil deeds.

    What’s changed is smart phones. Now we can all see what has been happening for years in the US.

    Guns ...
  • Anselmina wrote: »
    Worth bearing in mind that the UK has had an armed police force as a matter of course, in Northern Ireland for some decades now. The circumstances, it could be argued, were very different. I don't know, even now, if you could say it was/is a good or a bad strategy. But I think the restrictions of arms use for the RUC (however abused it may have been at times) was generally restrictive enough to make the police less than willing to use them, given a choice. I've had relatives in the police who never fired a shot in long careers (even at the height of the Troubles) and who considered it more trouble than it was worth to even take the thing out of the holster (unless absolutely close to death). There are infamous exceptions, no doubt.

    My brother, a retired Sheriff's Deputy, never fired a shot, either,
    nor did my nephew, recently retired from police work ...

    Our great uncle, OTOH, was shot and killed when he interrupted a burglary in progress ...
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    @Fr Teilhard uses whataboutery wtit large.

    His reasons for that are his own. To me they seem to be full of fear and emotion.

    He’s wrong. Police should be unarmed and part of their community, set on crime prevention. Not racist murderers given white cowboy hats to cover their evil deeds.

    What’s changed is smart phones. Now we can all see what has been happening for years in the US.

    Guns ...

    Yes, there are way more guns in the US. And yes, I know about the Bank of America shoot-out in North Hollywood -- I live in Los Angeles County. (I have an retired cop friend who was not involved only because it happened to be his day off.) It's not realistic to expect cops in the US to do their jobs unarmed.

    But they use them too much. The police need to let go of their warrior mentality. Yes, they want to go home safe at the end of the day - but their goal should be for everyone to go home safe at the end of the day, not just themselves.
  • Let them hate me, so long as they fear me.
  • I was coming down here to start a thread such as this because of this statement by the fuckhead:
    The irrational anti-police movement is not a good sign for the health of our society in general
    Irrational?!! Motherfuck, your head is so far up your arse that is must exit out your mouth, go 'round and up again.
    You might not agree with the reasoning, but it sure as fuck is rational.
    This erases any doubt that you actually fucking think about this issue.
    You are a worthless piece of shit. People are killed by racist, jackbooted thugs with little accountability and it is the victims to blame.
    Good thing you are retired and can no longer poison your congregation. You are a mockery of the clergy.
  • Boogie wrote: »
    @Fr Teilhard uses whataboutery wtit large.

    His reasons for that are his own. To me they seem to be full of fear and emotion.

    He’s wrong. Police should be unarmed and part of their community, set on crime prevention. Not racist murderers given white cowboy hats to cover their evil deeds.

    What’s changed is smart phones. Now we can all see what has been happening for years in the US.

    Guns ...

    The prevalence of guns - and people who want to use them to kill people - in the US seems to me a reason why training the police how to de-escalate should be more important, not less.
  • Ruth wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    @Fr Teilhard uses whataboutery wtit large.

    His reasons for that are his own. To me they seem to be full of fear and emotion.

    He’s wrong. Police should be unarmed and part of their community, set on crime prevention. Not racist murderers given white cowboy hats to cover their evil deeds.

    What’s changed is smart phones. Now we can all see what has been happening for years in the US.

    Guns ...

    Yes, there are way more guns in the US. And yes, I know about the Bank of America shoot-out in North Hollywood -- I live in Los Angeles County. (I have an retired cop friend who was not involved only because it happened to be his day off.) It's not realistic to expect cops in the US to do their jobs unarmed.

    But they use them too much. The police need to let go of their warrior mentality. Yes, they want to go home safe at the end of the day - but their goal should be for everyone to go home safe at the end of the day, not just themselves.

    Our entire society needs deep reform -- not only the way policing is done ...
  • Ricardus wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    @Fr Teilhard uses whataboutery wtit large.

    His reasons for that are his own. To me they seem to be full of fear and emotion.

    He’s wrong. Police should be unarmed and part of their community, set on crime prevention. Not racist murderers given white cowboy hats to cover their evil deeds.

    What’s changed is smart phones. Now we can all see what has been happening for years in the US.

    Guns ...

    The prevalence of guns - and people who want to use them to kill people - in the US seems to me a reason why training the police how to de-escalate should be more important, not less.

    Our entire society needs to de-escalate ...
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Yes, @Fr Teilhard, but then you cite half-truths and assertions about the Michael Brown case in the Purg thread.

    Do you by any chance live in the St. Louis area?
  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    Yes, @Fr Teilhard, but then you cite half-truths and assertions about the Michael Brown case in the Purg thread.

    Do you by any chance live in the St. Louis area?

    Please specify the "half truths" ... ???
  • Ricardus wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    @Fr Teilhard uses whataboutery wtit large.

    His reasons for that are his own. To me they seem to be full of fear and emotion.

    He’s wrong. Police should be unarmed and part of their community, set on crime prevention. Not racist murderers given white cowboy hats to cover their evil deeds.

    What’s changed is smart phones. Now we can all see what has been happening for years in the US.

    Guns ...

    The prevalence of guns - and people who want to use them to kill people - in the US seems to me a reason why training the police how to de-escalate should be more important, not less.

    Our entire society needs to de-escalate ...

    Waiting for everyone else to de-escalate before you de-escalate is somewhat missing the point of de-escalation.
  • Look, @Fr Teilhard - your entire stance here hasn't survived first contact with actual people. Pretty much everything you've said in defence of the police has been shown to be a lie, an exaggeration, a simplification or an obfuscation - mostly by white, middle-class folk who have every reason to support the police. That's obviously not a reason not to listen to minority voices who have far more experience with poor police behaviour than nice white people, but maybe you should reconsider your position if even they are against you?
  • Ruth wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    @Fr Teilhard uses whataboutery wtit large.

    His reasons for that are his own. To me they seem to be full of fear and emotion.

    He’s wrong. Police should be unarmed and part of their community, set on crime prevention. Not racist murderers given white cowboy hats to cover their evil deeds.

    What’s changed is smart phones. Now we can all see what has been happening for years in the US.

    Guns ...

    Yes, there are way more guns in the US. And yes, I know about the Bank of America shoot-out in North Hollywood -- I live in Los Angeles County. (I have an retired cop friend who was not involved only because it happened to be his day off.) It's not realistic to expect cops in the US to do their jobs unarmed.

    But they use them too much. The police need to let go of their warrior mentality. Yes, they want to go home safe at the end of the day - but their goal should be for everyone to go home safe at the end of the day, not just themselves.

    Our entire society needs deep reform -- not only the way policing is done ...

    I am sure that is true, but a start needs to be made. Why can't the police lead the way in reform?
  • I wonder how that's done. @Anselmina - what's your view on PSNI vs RUC? Badge engineering, or something deeper?
  • Ruth wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    @Fr Teilhard uses whataboutery wtit large.

    His reasons for that are his own. To me they seem to be full of fear and emotion.

    He’s wrong. Police should be unarmed and part of their community, set on crime prevention. Not racist murderers given white cowboy hats to cover their evil deeds.

    What’s changed is smart phones. Now we can all see what has been happening for years in the US.

    Guns ...

    Yes, there are way more guns in the US. And yes, I know about the Bank of America shoot-out in North Hollywood -- I live in Los Angeles County. (I have an retired cop friend who was not involved only because it happened to be his day off.) It's not realistic to expect cops in the US to do their jobs unarmed.

    But they use them too much. The police need to let go of their warrior mentality. Yes, they want to go home safe at the end of the day - but their goal should be for everyone to go home safe at the end of the day, not just themselves.

    Our entire society needs deep reform -- not only the way policing is done ...
    This is a true statement that means avoids the issue without dealing with it. Lying whilst telling the truth.
    The problem with the police is far deeper than the problem with society, the fact that society is currently demonstrating against the police should be an indicator.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    Yes, @Fr Teilhard, but then you cite half-truths and assertions about the Michael Brown case in the Purg thread.

    Do you by any chance live in the St. Louis area?

    Please specify the "half truths" ... ???
    That Michael Brown was “out of control” when Darren Wilson shot him. If trying desperately to avoid being the victim of an extra-judicial execution counts as being “out of control,” I suspect that most of us would qualify.

    Now, please answer my questions here and in the Jacob Barker thread in Purgatory.

    Thank you.


  • I wonder how that's done. @Anselmina - what's your view on PSNI vs RUC? Badge engineering, or something deeper?

    I don't really know. I was living away when it all happened and wasn't even really aware of it at the time! I suppose they were trying to make the police force more inclusive to Catholics by removing the obvious crown emblem, and the 'Royal Ulster' bit. I do know a few Catholics in the service who had always wanted to be in the police, regardless of name. It would be interesting to know how the recruitment statistics might have changed since the name and uniform were changed.

    I'm afraid my own information is a bit anecdotal. I have a Catholic relative who wanted to be a policeman because his Catholic relative was high up in the RUC, as it was then. But then I'm told by others that it was always the way to keep Catholics from the higher positions in the police and the Civil Service; an organization often spoken of derogatorily by many Protestants as a generous employer of Catholics at the expense of Prod applicants, which I have no idea is true or not.
  • Ricardus wrote: »
    Ricardus wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    @Fr Teilhard uses whataboutery wtit large.

    His reasons for that are his own. To me they seem to be full of fear and emotion.

    He’s wrong. Police should be unarmed and part of their community, set on crime prevention. Not racist murderers given white cowboy hats to cover their evil deeds.

    What’s changed is smart phones. Now we can all see what has been happening for years in the US.

    Guns ...

    The prevalence of guns - and people who want to use them to kill people - in the US seems to me a reason why training the police how to de-escalate should be more important, not less.

    Our entire society needs to de-escalate ...

    Waiting for everyone else to de-escalate before you de-escalate is somewhat missing the point of de-escalation.

    Yeah ...
    Just a couple days ago in Minneapolis the MPD was running a *sting* purchase of an illegal gun from a known felon ... When cornered, he began shooting at the officers, who returned fire, killing him ...

    Now the anti-Police movement is *up*in*arms* over "another police killing" ...
  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    Yes, @Fr Teilhard, but then you cite half-truths and assertions about the Michael Brown case in the Purg thread.

    Do you by any chance live in the St. Louis area?

    Please specify the "half truths" ... ???
    That Michael Brown was “out of control” when Darren Wilson shot him. If trying desperately to avoid being the victim of an extra-judicial execution counts as being “out of control,” I suspect that most of us would qualify.

    Now, please answer my questions here and in the Jacob Barker thread in Purgatory.

    Thank you.


    Michael Brown sucker-punched a police officer, grabbed his gun, causing a shot to be discharged in the cruiser ... Brown ran a short distance away, then came back at the officer ...
    Yes, Michael Brown was "out of control" ...
  • ECraigRECraigR Castaway
    Dude, maybe don’t resurrect dead threads and purposefully paint a target on your back. Just basic internet advice.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Maybe he shouldn't try to argue with a dead person.
  • ECraigRECraigR Castaway
    Ruth wrote: »
    Maybe he shouldn't try to argue with a dead person.

    I thought that too, but I figured someone else would handle that misstep more hellishly than I can.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Yeah, I kinda softballed it. But maybe he'll still be suitably chagrined.
  • One can only hope.
  • ECraigR wrote: »
    Dude, maybe don’t resurrect dead threads and purposefully paint a target on your back. Just basic internet advice.

    Well ... Ummm ...
    You think that ever-buddy should just go*along*to*get*along ... ???
    Huh ...
  • Ruth wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    @Fr Teilhard uses whataboutery wtit large.

    His reasons for that are his own. To me they seem to be full of fear and emotion.

    He’s wrong. Police should be unarmed and part of their community, set on crime prevention. Not racist murderers given white cowboy hats to cover their evil deeds.

    What’s changed is smart phones. Now we can all see what has been happening for years in the US.

    Guns ...

    Yes, there are way more guns in the US. And yes, I know about the Bank of America shoot-out in North Hollywood -- I live in Los Angeles County. (I have an retired cop friend who was not involved only because it happened to be his day off.) It's not realistic to expect cops in the US to do their jobs unarmed.

    But they use them too much. The police need to let go of their warrior mentality. Yes, they want to go home safe at the end of the day - but their goal should be for everyone to go home safe at the end of the day, not just themselves.

    Our entire society needs deep reform -- not only the way policing is done ...

    This is what I think ...
    It's not a simple matter ...
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    ECraigR wrote: »
    Dude, maybe don’t resurrect dead threads and purposefully paint a target on your back. Just basic internet advice.

    Well ... Ummm ...
    You think that ever-buddy should just go*along*to*get*along ... ???
    Huh ...

    No, the view is just that you should do research.

    Every thread you participate in tends to suggest that you lost track of the world a few decades ago.
  • ECraigRECraigR Castaway
    ECraigR wrote: »
    Dude, maybe don’t resurrect dead threads and purposefully paint a target on your back. Just basic internet advice.

    Well ... Ummm ...
    You think that ever-buddy should just go*along*to*get*along ... ???
    Huh ...

    I have no idea how you arrived at that from what I said. I’m also not sure what you mean.
  • Fr TeilhardFr Teilhard Shipmate
    edited January 6
    orfeo wrote: »
    ECraigR wrote: »
    Dude, maybe don’t resurrect dead threads and purposefully paint a target on your back. Just basic internet advice.

    Well ... Ummm ...
    You think that ever-buddy should just go*along*to*get*along ... ???
    Huh ...

    No, the view is just that you should do research.

    Every thread you participate in tends to suggest that you lost track of the world a few decades ago.

    LOL ...
    No, it just suggests that I have lived for a while ... and have paid close attention ...

    (But, huh ... Over in *Purgatory* I have been a vocal critic of everything about Emperor Donald I ... Are you one of his Red Hat disciples ... ???)
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    edited January 6
    orfeo wrote: »
    ECraigR wrote: »
    Dude, maybe don’t resurrect dead threads and purposefully paint a target on your back. Just basic internet advice.

    Well ... Ummm ...
    You think that ever-buddy should just go*along*to*get*along ... ???
    Huh ...

    No, the view is just that you should do research.

    Every thread you participate in tends to suggest that you lost track of the world a few decades ago.

    LOL ...
    No, it just suggests that I have lived for a while ...

    You were living for a while, and then you decided that you knew everything and so you stopped learning and fossilized.

    On another thread you seem alternately obsessed with several thousand years in the past and the 1980s (though only some parts of the 1980s, interestingly not those parts that were in fact focused on some time after the event).

    I was alive in the 1980s too, you know. The difference is that isn't the last time I paid attention to developments.

    Recent developments including that the person you came back to this thread to argue with has since died. There was a very prominent pinned thread about it for some time.
  • orfeo wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    ECraigR wrote: »
    Dude, maybe don’t resurrect dead threads and purposefully paint a target on your back. Just basic internet advice.

    Well ... Ummm ...
    You think that ever-buddy should just go*along*to*get*along ... ???
    Huh ...

    No, the view is just that you should do research.

    Every thread you participate in tends to suggest that you lost track of the world a few decades ago.

    LOL ...
    No, it just suggests that I have lived for a while ...

    You were living for a while, and then you decided that you knew everything and so you stopped learning and fossilized.

    On another thread you seem alternately obsessed with several thousand years in the past and the 1980s (though only some parts of the 1980s, interestingly not those parts that were in fact focused on some time after the event).

    I was alive in the 1980s too, you know. The difference is that isn't the last time I paid attention to developments.

    I've been in places, in situations, that would make your skin crawl ... You have no idea ...
  • BTW ... I do NOT agree that "Cops Are Always Right" ...
    But I'm realistic about our society ...
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    Let me repeat my last edit for you as you may have missed it: Recent developments including that the person you came back to this thread to argue with has since died. There was a very prominent pinned thread about it for some time.

    As to places you've been, all evidence indicates that you've been living under a rock.
  • orfeo wrote: »
    Let me repeat my last edit for you as you may have missed it: Recent developments including that the person you came back to this thread to argue with has since died. There was a very prominent pinned thread about it for some time.

    As to places you've been, all evidence indicates that you've been living under a rock.

    Well, I was OFF "the Ship" for a while so I'm not privy to every memo about everybody ... and I'm not entering a discussion (only) WITH a particular person, but rather ABOUT the question of police practices and needed reforms ...

    Since I come from a law enforcement family, I have a dog in this race ...
    And, frankly, I don't really care that you want me to be quiet or just go away ...
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    The only reason I want you to be quiet or go away is because you seem completely unable or unwilling to use the English language in a commonly accepted fashion, or to otherwise allow anything to penetrate a skull so thick it could be used as a radiation barrier.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Since I come from a law enforcement family, I have a dog in this race ...

    Asshole, everyone is affected by this to one degree or another, but Black people most of all. Your family members in law enforcement are considerably safer.
  • Ruth wrote: »
    Since I come from a law enforcement family, I have a dog in this race ...

    Asshole, everyone is affected by this to one degree or another, but Black people most of all. Your family members in law enforcement are considerably safer.

    And ... the fact that I have a perspective and opinions based upon my own personal knowledge and training and life experience ... makes me an "asshole" ...

    See, I think our entire society is in deep trouble and it isn't just because some of the police culture and practices need reform ... (in my opinion) ...
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    Since I come from a law enforcement family, I have a dog in this race ...

    Asshole, everyone is affected by this to one degree or another, but Black people most of all. Your family members in law enforcement are considerably safer.

    And ... the fact that I have a perspective and opinions based upon my own personal knowledge and training and life experience ... makes me an "asshole" ...

    See, I think our entire society is in deep trouble and it isn't just because some of the police culture and practices need reform ... (in my opinion) ...

    Oh fuck off you tedious shit.
  • Ruth wrote: »
    Since I come from a law enforcement family, I have a dog in this race ...

    Asshole, everyone is affected by this to one degree or another, but Black people most of all. Your family members in law enforcement are considerably safer.

    And ... the fact that I have a perspective and opinions based upon my own personal knowledge and training and life experience ... makes me an "asshole" ...

    That's code for "pulling opinions out of my arse and writing myself an exemption from having to deal with facts or evidence".

    It's getting really hard to figure out which is the greater of your ignorance and your arrogance.
  • You know, it would have shown a little empathy to express regret at the death of the shipmate you were arguing with.
  • RicardusRicardus Shipmate
    I imagine @Fr Teilhard must be very popular for confessions. You can tell him all about the rubber duck and the KY jelly, secure in the knowledge that he isn't paying the least bit of attention!

    Probably not so popular for funerals though.
  • Dave W wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    Since I come from a law enforcement family, I have a dog in this race ...

    Asshole, everyone is affected by this to one degree or another, but Black people most of all. Your family members in law enforcement are considerably safer.

    And ... the fact that I have a perspective and opinions based upon my own personal knowledge and training and life experience ... makes me an "asshole" ...

    See, I think our entire society is in deep trouble and it isn't just because some of the police culture and practices need reform ... (in my opinion) ...

    Oh fuck off you tedious shit.

    LOL ... Well ... That certainly adds to the discussion ...
    But again, I think that our entire society is in deep trouble ...
    The observed fact that Trump got even more votes in 2020 than in 2016 is, as they say, a telltale sign ... IMHO ...
  • You know, it would have shown a little empathy to express regret at the death of the shipmate you were arguing with.

    I wasn't arguing with a particular person, I was expressing -- as I am now -- a point of view ...
  • Ricardus wrote: »
    I imagine @Fr Teilhard must be very popular for confessions. You can tell him all about the rubber duck and the KY jelly, secure in the knowledge that he isn't paying the least bit of attention!

    Probably not so popular for funerals though.

    LOL ... Actually I commonly get thanks and praise for the funerals I officiate ...
  • But ... This discussion is supposed to be about "policing in America" and the need to reform it, and I agree that reforms are needed ... So ...
  • But ... This discussion is supposed to be about "policing in America" and the need to reform it, and I agree that reforms are needed ... So ...
    No, this thread is about your tendency to argue that cops must be in the right because they are cops, regardless of how much evidence there is to the contrary (which does nothing to nurture a sensible discussion about reforming policing in America, or elsewhere). It's a place to tell you you're being a wanker for doing that.

    Now we'll add to that by pointing out that you've shown a tendency to post on long dormant threads, adding nothing that couldn't have been said when they were active, and blithely ignoring the fact that in waiting more than 3 months to respond you're now arguing against someone who we lost last year. You're a double wanker for that.
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