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  • Ruth wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Is there a procedural method to remove Trump immediately (not the 25th Amendment)? E.g. vote of the House and the Senate?

    Yes, the House could vote to impeach and the Senate could vote to convict. Seth Moulton, a Democratic Congressman from Maine, has already publicly called for this. I called my Congressman's local office and spoke in favor of it.

    Yep exactly. The House could Impeach tomorrow if they were so minded. Senate needs a two-thirds majority... are there 17 honest Republicans in the Senate? Probably not.

    AFZ
  • Ruth wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Is there a procedural method to remove Trump immediately (not the 25th Amendment)? E.g. vote of the House and the Senate?

    Yes, the House could vote to impeach and the Senate could vote to convict. Seth Moulton, a Democratic Congressman from Maine, has already publicly called for this. I called my Congressman's local office and spoke in favor of it.

    Not enough time for that ...
    If necessary, US Marshals and Secret Service will escort The (ex)Emperor OUT of the White House at noon on January 20 ...
  • I've only seen scenes like this from countries where it ends up with tanks in the streets. Looks like an attempted coup. Is the American military going to say where they stand?
  • I've only seen scenes like this from countries where it ends up with tanks in the streets. Looks like an attempted coup. Is the American military going to say where they stand?

    No ...
    They will leave it to civilian authority ...
  • Ruth wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Is there a procedural method to remove Trump immediately (not the 25th Amendment)? E.g. vote of the House and the Senate?

    Yes, the House could vote to impeach and the Senate could vote to convict. Seth Moulton, a Democratic Congressman from Maine, has already publicly called for this. I called my Congressman's local office and spoke in favor of it.

    Yep exactly. The House could Impeach tomorrow if they were so minded. Senate needs a two-thirds majority... are there 17 honest Republicans in the Senate? Probably not.

    AFZ

    Are there more than 17 Republican Senators who aren't relying on receiving a pardon in the next few days?
  • Completely by the way, but does anyone else think the blue patterned carpet in the Senate chamber is a bit overbearing?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Is there a procedural method to remove Trump immediately (not the 25th Amendment)? E.g. vote of the House and the Senate?

    Yes, impeachment. It can happen as quickly as Congress wants it to.
  • jay_emmjay_emm Shipmate
    Completely by the way, but does anyone else think the blue patterned carpet in the Senate chamber is a bit overbearing?

    I don't know, but seeing the full capital (and the maps), I want to go! (When the UK covid situation isn't so bad)
  • Completely by the way, but does anyone else think the blue patterned carpet in the Senate chamber is a bit overbearing?

    Standard 1980s 4 star country hotel look.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Is there a procedural method to remove Trump immediately (not the 25th Amendment)? E.g. vote of the House and the Senate?

    Yes, impeachment. It can happen as quickly as Congress wants it to.

    How quickly is quickly, practically, procedurally? Trump can only get worse, and it would appear that increasing numbers of Republicans are increasingly eager to pretend they've never heard of him.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited January 6
    Eutychus wrote: »
    How quickly is quickly, practically, procedurally? Trump can only get worse, and it would appear that increasing numbers of Republicans are increasingly eager to pretend they've never heard of him.

    Congress is an independent branch of the government so it can happen as quickly as Congress wants it to. It could be as simple as two votes, one in each chamber. You may recall a century year ago that the Senate shortened its part of the (first?) Trump impeachment by not bothering to hear any evidence or witnesses. As for the practicalities of procedure, that depends on how many Congresscritters would want to throw sand in the gears. A unanimous Congress is a quick Congress, a non-unanimous Congress . . . isn't.
  • It could be done in a couple of days if the House and Senate were so-minded. (Assuming the Chief Justice is free on Friday).
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    I think (hope?) this is going to move fast now, either via an express impeachment or the 25th.

    The balance of "normal" political power has shifted dramatically in the last few hours.

    By inciting the invasion of the very symbol of democracy and putting its representatives, including Republicans, in physical danger in that place, and pretty much doubling down, plus as I hear refusing the support of the National Guard initially, I think Trump has distanced himself from them in a way none of his other actions have. He is no longer an asset to anyone engaged in even a pretence of democracy.
  • I think I may have asked this before, but does anyone know where Trump actually is right now?
  • I'm more pessimistic. More likely, today's escapade has shown the power or Trumpism / shitheadism as a political force. The Republicans may all hate him but many clearly are afraid of alienating his supporters. That's the only way of explaining their bizarre support for the man over the last 4 years.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    My God. A neo-fascist insurrection. How civilization fell in The Postman.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited January 6
    I think I may have asked this before, but does anyone know where Trump actually is right now?

    That video was shot on what looked like the White House grounds (assuming they weren't using a greenscreen) so as of ~4:20 pm Eastern Time (~90 minutes ago) he was still in Washington, DC.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Is there a procedural method to remove Trump immediately (not the 25th Amendment)? E.g. vote of the House and the Senate?

    Yes, impeachment. It can happen as quickly as Congress wants it to.

    But it won't ...
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    He should be under fucking arrest for treason.
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    He should be under fucking arrest for treason.

    sedition
  • Whoever the C-Span anchor is, she deserves a medal. What a pro, she's still going strong.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited January 6
    Ilhan Omar has tweeted she is drawing up articles of impeachment - I think there will be a rapid attempt.
  • Just heard: re: National Guard, acting Sec of Defence Christopher Miller announced in contact with Pelosi and Pence... no mention of Trump. Meaningful omission, I think.

    Grown-ups only
  • BBC reports the capitol has been re-secured.
  • Furtive GanderFurtive Gander Shipmate
    edited January 6
    Well he really has dragged the good name of the US into the dirt (briefly, one hopes) by inciting his knuckledraggers to go to the Capitol en masse and for that alone doesn't deserve to end his term in office with any hono(u)r.

    His blatent, crude attempt to overturn the Georgia presidential election in a phone call had the expected result and the two Senate seats give the Dems the Senate, so trump will clearly lose support and sympathy in his party who must be regretting they ever heard of him.

    By complete contrast Joe Biden spoke well and asked for calm.
  • Biden was downright presidential. Sad but determined, and seemingly committed to a just and peaceful nation.
  • Well he really has dragged the good name of the US into the dirt (briefly, one hopes) by inciting his knuckledraggers to go to the Capitol en masse and for that alone doesn't deserve to end his term in office with any hono(u)r.

    His blatent, crude attempt to overturn the Georgia presidential election in a phone call had the expected result and the two Senate seats give the Dems the Senate, so trump will clearly lose support and sympathy in his party who must be regretting they ever heard of him.

    As a meme I saw said, "he held his breath until Georgia turned blue."
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Biden was downright presidential. Sad but determined, and seemingly committed to a just and peaceful nation.

    Exactly. What a contrast to the lunatic toddler...
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    edited January 7
    BBC reports the capitol has been re-secured.
    What needs to be done now is for them to reconvene immediately and certify the vote. I have seen too many headlines that the protesters managed to "halt the vote" on certification. The proper response, to prevent such occurrences in the future, is to reconvene tonight and certify the vote. Don't give the rabble the victory of having delayed it for even a day. Now that the Capitol has been re-secured, finish the job.

  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Congress is back in session. C-SPAN is currently streaming the Senate. Chuck Schumer is talking now and calling out Trump.
  • Wesley JWesley J Shipmate
    Mitch didn't look too happy either, he went on before. CNN is live as well.
  • Mcconnell? Crocodile he cry big tears.

    His handwringing earlier today about what he is responsible for unleashing was one of the most ridiculous spectacles today. Trump would be long gone but for him. He decided to keep administering the poison of Trump because he reckoned it would do the opposition more damage than his own party.

    He shouldn't be happy. He should be utterly ashamed of himself.
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Congress is back in session. C-SPAN is currently streaming the Senate. Chuck Schumer is talking now and calling out Trump.
    And is my face red! They are doing just what I said they should do...and started it before I even posted. I should have researched first.

  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    New streaming link, since C-SPAN seems to have gone over to their regular call-in format.
  • Wesley JWesley J Shipmate
    Thanks for the PBS link, Croesus.
  • I'm watching the Senate meeting on TV, via PBS. Corry Booker just gave a great speech. Sen. Loeffler said she changed her mind, and will NOT oppose the electoral college results.

    Sen. Dick Durbin is speaking now. Good, so far. The male senator just before him was very good. Didn't catch his name and didn't see it on screen. But there was good stuff to the effect of "don't burn it all down; organize so you can change it; love your neighbor in practical ways (like shoveling the snow off someone's driveway), 'cause you can't hate someone who just shoveled your driveway". (IMHO: I suspect, though, that would depend on who shovels whose driveway. I can see several ways that could go very wrong.)

    Oh, and Dubyah put out a message a while ago. I didn't catch much, but he was a calm, unhappy former presidential camper.
  • It is being reported that senior cabinet members are meeting and discussing invoking Amendment 25: do they have the cojones to do it?
  • Wesley JWesley J Shipmate
    We pray and hope.
  • Now Nancy Pelosi is speaking to the House. She's Catholic, and is taking a spiritual tack: Epiphany, prayer of St. Francis ("Where there is hatred..."), other bits of prayer.

    She has a flag pin on. AIUI, it says "one country, one destiny". (Not sure if it's based on a real flag.) She said Lincoln also had that message embroidered into the coat he wore when he was shot.
  • NO ONE in the GOP can plausibly claim, "We had NO idea ... !!!" ... They went out of their way to nominate him and elect him in 2016 and gave him even more support in 2020 than in 2016 ...
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    CBS is reporting that there are backroom discussions by the US Cabinet to invoke the 25th. If this happens, the Cabinet along with the VP will transmit to Congress their decision. That would make Pence the acting president. Trump can send a counter letter to Congress saying he remains fit to be the president. Congress then has four days to take the letter up and then make the final decision.

    Interesting times.
  • I think the correct term for most of the senior Republicans who watcged Trump shanghai their party and the presidency is enablers.
  • I think the correct term for most of the senior Republicans who watcged Trump shanghai their party and the presidency is enablers.

    This.

    Hooray that they've finally finally finally distanced themselves from Manicula. A pity that they didn't do so five years ago, particularly as they knew what he was back then too.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    CBS is reporting that there are backroom discussions by the US Cabinet to invoke the 25th. If this happens, the Cabinet along with the VP will transmit to Congress their decision. That would make Pence the acting president. Trump can send a counter letter to Congress saying he remains fit to be the president. Congress then has four days to take the letter up and then make the final decision.

    No, the president has four days in which to contest his removal. After that Congress has up to twenty-one days to consider the matter. Essentially Pence (and a majority of the cabinet) could invoke the 25th Amendment now and Congress could just ride out the clock on Trump’s last days with Pence as Acting President.
  • I think the correct term for most of the senior Republicans who watcged Trump shanghai their party and the presidency is enablers.

    This.

    Hooray that they've finally finally finally distanced themselves from Manicula. A pity that they didn't do so five years ago, particularly as they knew what he was back then too.

    yes
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    CBS is reporting that there are backroom discussions by the US Cabinet to invoke the 25th. If this happens, the Cabinet along with the VP will transmit to Congress their decision. That would make Pence the acting president. Trump can send a counter letter to Congress saying he remains fit to be the president. Congress then has four days to take the letter up and then make the final decision.

    No, the president has four days in which to contest his removal. After that Congress has up to twenty-one days to consider the matter. Essentially Pence (and a majority of the cabinet) could invoke the 25th Amendment now and Congress could just ride out the clock on Trump’s last days with Pence as Acting President.


    Thank you for the correction.

    Question to the lawyers of the group: If person A allegedly incites a riot, and one of the participants in the riot is killed, can person A be charged with murder?
  • I don't understand what there is to debate. They're to rubber-stamp the Electoral College's report. It's a procedural nicety not a piece of legislation or cabinet appointment.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    I don't understand what there is to debate. They're to rubber-stamp the Electoral College's report. It's a procedural nicety not a piece of legislation or cabinet appointment.

    Technically, they count the certified electoral votes submitted by the individual Secretary of States
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    I don't understand what there is to debate. They're to rubber-stamp the Electoral College's report. It's a procedural nicety not a piece of legislation or cabinet appointment.

    Technically, they count the certified electoral votes submitted by the individual Secretary of States

    It's a farce. Even in more normal times its purely an opportunity for verbose grandstanding: tonight the self backslapping and bombast feels particularly inappropriate.
  • It may not be debate per se, mt. But some Congress critters still object to the electoral college results, and are expressing that. AFAICT, the results will be approved, given the live numbers.
This discussion has been closed.