Pence's late in the day refusal to respond to his boss's dogwhistle has nothing to do with him suddenly gaining a backbone and everything to do with a swift recognition that its CYA time, plus some swift calculation that positioning himself as a moderate Trumpist will leave the door open for him to run in 2024 while retaining some support from the Trump base of militiamen, supporters of the Confederacy and QA loons.
In his own, gnomic way, Pence is the equal of Trump and has a few more brain cells.
With all respect, can you offer any evidence at all in support of your Pence brain cell theory?
Pence's late in the day refusal to respond to his boss's dogwhistle has nothing to do with him suddenly gaining a backbone and everything to do with a swift recognition that its CYA time, plus some swift calculation that positioning himself as a moderate Trumpist will leave the door open for him to run in 2024 while retaining some support from the Trump base of militiamen, supporters of the Confederacy and QA loons.
In his own, gnomic way, Pence is the equal of Trump and has a few more brain cells.
With all respect, can you offer any evidence at all in support of your Pence brain cell theory?
I'll second this, given his nickname as governor was Mike Dense.
If he's removed under the 25th, it would preclude any criminal prosecution. If Congress moves quickly, as Croesus pointed out on a different thread, impeachment could be done by COB Friday.
"Impeachment" is simply an indictment, which sends the case to The Senate for a trial, which would not be completed before the 20th, I'm sure, making it moot ...
Actually, it wouldn't be moot even if it took place after Trump is no longer president. As I understand it, the result of the Senate vote after a House impeachment is twofold: one result is whether or not the individual is to be removed from office (which would indeed be moot at that point), but the other result is whether or not the individual can ever again hold that office, which would not be moot for a one-term president.
I have a hunch -- a hope -- that the GOP will find someone else to carry the Brown Shirt banner ... Ted Cruz seems to be angling ... (*shudder*)
But more so I think that there are still actually some sane and ethical and competent GOPs ... Where is Jon Huntsman when our country needs him ... ???
If he's removed under the 25th, it would preclude any criminal prosecution. If Congress moves quickly, as Croesus pointed out on a different thread, impeachment could be done by COB Friday.
"Impeachment" is simply an indictment, which sends the case to The Senate for a trial, which would not be completed before the 20th, I'm sure, making it moot ...
Actually, it wouldn't be moot even if it took place after Trump is no longer president. As I understand it, the result of the Senate vote after a House impeachment is twofold: one result is whether or not the individual is to be removed from office (which would indeed be moot at that point), but the other result is whether or not the individual can ever again hold that office, which would not be moot for a one-term president.
I have a hunch -- a hope -- that the GOP will find someone else to carry the Brown Shirt banner ... Ted Cruz seems to be angling ... (*shudder*)
But more so I think that there are still actually some sane and ethical and competent GOPs ... Where is Jon Huntsman when our country needs him ... ???
Incapable of getting through a Republican primary, even to stand again for governor in Utah. The GOP don't want sane, ethical or competent - those things don't accord with their worldview.
If he's removed under the 25th, it would preclude any criminal prosecution. If Congress moves quickly, as Croesus pointed out on a different thread, impeachment could be done by COB Friday.
Is this true? So if he's found 'incapable' (after four years of being such a shining example of diligent rectitude) he gets his multiple crimes and errors wiped out? Surely not?
Is it like those many examples of despots who are "too ill" to stand trial?
Any port in a storm, perhaps, as long as he is somehow removed legally?
Once he's out of office, then by all means let the lawyers loose on him. I daresay they'll have enough material with which to occupy him for the rest of his life.
.. and in that case BF, I wish him a long life in uncomfortable prison, shared a cell with someone he hates but can't complain about. (eg big, powerful, mostly calm, non-white LBGT person who would tolerate trump if he 'behaves').
Pence's late in the day refusal to respond to his boss's dogwhistle has nothing to do with him suddenly gaining a backbone and everything to do with a swift recognition that its CYA time, plus some swift calculation that positioning himself as a moderate Trumpist will leave the door open for him to run in 2024 while retaining some support from the Trump base of militiamen, supporters of the Confederacy and QA loons.
In his own, gnomic way, Pence is the equal of Trump and has a few more brain cells.
With all respect, can you offer any evidence at all in support of your Pence brain cell theory?
Bright enough to keep his head down and keep hiz twitter feed as dull as Mrs Dale's Diary.
Or will he end up like George Bush who is now basically rehabilitated and thought of as a good guy? With the Iraq invasion, torture etc no longer important.
Or will he end up like George Bush who is now basically rehabilitated and thought of as a good guy? With the Iraq invasion, torture etc no longer important.
Or will he end up like George Bush who is now basically rehabilitated and thought of as a good guy? With the Iraq invasion, torture etc no longer important.
No ... Trump is way beyond The Bushies ...
My worry is that every Republican president is the worst ever... until the next one comes along. WTF is going to happen to make Tump look like a good guy?
If he's removed under the 25th, it would preclude any criminal prosecution. If Congress moves quickly, as Croesus pointed out on a different thread, impeachment could be done by COB Friday.
Is this true? So if he's found 'incapable' (after four years of being such a shining example of diligent rectitude) he gets his multiple crimes and errors wiped out? Surely not?
Is it like those many examples of despots who are "too ill" to stand trial?
@Furtive Gander Sorry. My hopes for brevity led to a lack of clarity. My fault.
My thought is that the 25th Amendment would be invoked by reason mental incapacity, since there is evidently no underlying physical malady. The argument could be that his crimes were committed due to, or under the cloud of, mental incapacity, and he would therefore not be criminally responsible. He could then be released in the care of some third party (rather than an institution for the criminally insane) with the promise that he wouldn't run with sharp objects, and live out his days in debtful luxury.
They need merely to find him unfit/unable to carry out his duties. Whether he's insane with moral competence or not is a matter for the courts to figure out.
They need merely to find him unfit/unable to carry out his duties. Whether he's insane with moral competence or not is a matter for the courts to figure out.
Congress. Congress is the adjudicator when the president* disputes his incapacity.
Okay. Though would they need to ascertain to that level (criminal and competent, vs. criminal and incompetent), or would they simply need to say, "Yes, you are still unfit and incapable"?
They need merely to find him unfit/unable to carry out his duties. Whether he's insane with moral competence or not is a matter for the courts to figure out.
Congress. Congress is the adjudicator when the president* disputes his incapacity.
Yes, but the courts will decide if he's fit to stand trial, and they might well decide he's legally sane even if congress deems him incapable of performing his duties.
Or will he end up like George Bush who is now basically rehabilitated and thought of as a good guy? With the Iraq invasion, torture etc no longer important.
No ... Trump is way beyond The Bushies ...
My worry is that every Republican president is the worst ever... until the next one comes along. WTF is going to happen to make Tump look like a good guy?
Yeah ... The GOP record isn't exactly admirable ...
Last one, Eisenhower ...
(BTW - which one are you actually thinking of? Beelzebub, or T Junior? By the latter, I meant Donald Junior, but ISWYM).
Sorry. I was referring to the reference to Junior. But even Donald Trump thinks that Donald Trump, Jr. is an idiot. That is why he put so many things under Ivanka's control. While he lusts after her, he also considers her the smartest of his children---and, for once, he is probably right.
(BTW - which one are you actually thinking of? Beelzebub, or T Junior? By the latter, I meant Donald Junior, but ISWYM).
Sorry. I was referring to the reference to Junior. But even Donald Trump thinks that Donald Trump, Jr. is an idiot. That is why he put so many things under Ivanka's control. While he lusts after her, he also considers her the smartest of his children---and, for once, he is probably right.
Maybe, but looking at Donald Jr and Eric, the bar is set pretty low.
So, will the fascist son of a bitch in chief and fascists Cruz, Hawley and Giuliani all be charged with incitement of insurrection, with secession? Can criminal charges be brought against them from the 20th? Can Republican representatives be compelled to accept the vote without prevarication?
3) Well, the election *has* been certified by both chambers of Congress--so, in that sense, it's been accepted. I'm not sure how dissenting Republicans could be forced to accept that without prevarication. They might be forced to *say* they accept it, under penalty of being censured by Congress. Their voters back home might be able to scare them into saying they accept it, on pain of a recall vote to oust them. But none of that would change what they actually believe.
3) Well, the election *has* been certified by both chambers of Congress--so, in that sense, it's been accepted. I'm not sure how dissenting Republicans could be forced to accept that without prevarication. They might be forced to *say* they accept it, under penalty of being censured by Congress. Their voters back home might be able to scare them into saying they accept it, on pain of a recall vote to oust them. But none of that would change what they actually believe.
But none of them believe it. It can't be believed. There again neither can Moon landing and climate denial, whereas a 6000 year Earth can be.
I say let them secede and take their virus-shedding gun-toting cronies with them. Let the USA not establish diplomatic relations with Trumpland or whatever they decide to call it. Let the borders be sealed against entry into the USA from same. Let a trade embargo exist. Let Social Security, Medicare, etc. be revoked for all who choose to live there. And let's see how long they last.
Noting that indigenous peoples worldwide are modern people, living in settlements these days. Like everyone else, they'd take cell phone videos and post them on the internet.
I don't think any country should accept another's garbage. Dispose of it within country of origin.
Why an Earth-based nation at all? Boring! They could colonise the Moon - why not let trump become the first man to *set foot on the moon? He could be president there and start again with all those riotous trumpists in their quaint rubber headgear making a new life free from libruls and guv'mint oppression.
And the real world would be free of them.
*Yes, we know it's been done half a century ago but his followers probably don't accept facts like that
Comments
With all respect, can you offer any evidence at all in support of your Pence brain cell theory?
I'll second this, given his nickname as governor was Mike Dense.
I have a hunch -- a hope -- that the GOP will find someone else to carry the Brown Shirt banner ... Ted Cruz seems to be angling ... (*shudder*)
But more so I think that there are still actually some sane and ethical and competent GOPs ... Where is Jon Huntsman when our country needs him ... ???
Incapable of getting through a Republican primary, even to stand again for governor in Utah. The GOP don't want sane, ethical or competent - those things don't accord with their worldview.
Is it like those many examples of despots who are "too ill" to stand trial?
Once he's out of office, then by all means let the lawyers loose on him. I daresay they'll have enough material with which to occupy him for the rest of his life.
How about house arrest, without Twitter etc., MacDonalds, or golf, but a constant harrying by lawyers day in, day out?
Only provide healthy food. Salads, lots of veg and no meat or dairy at all.
It's for your own good Donald!
O, and a Number One haircut, to get rid of that ghastly comb-over, and to make it easier to find the nits.
Mussolini ... ironically was *handled* by a mob ...
It didn't go well for Nick Ceausescu and his bride, Elena, either ...
Bright enough to keep his head down and keep hiz twitter feed as dull as Mrs Dale's Diary.
No ... Trump is way beyond The Bushies ...
My worry is that every Republican president is the worst ever... until the next one comes along. WTF is going to happen to make Tump look like a good guy?
A Hideous Thort...
(BTW - which one are you actually thinking of? Beelzebub, or T Junior? By the latter, I meant Donald Junior, but ISWYM).
Lord, have mercy, anyway, and defend America from the Spawn of Satan's Poo...
@Furtive Gander Sorry. My hopes for brevity led to a lack of clarity. My fault.
My thought is that the 25th Amendment would be invoked by reason mental incapacity, since there is evidently no underlying physical malady. The argument could be that his crimes were committed due to, or under the cloud of, mental incapacity, and he would therefore not be criminally responsible. He could then be released in the care of some third party (rather than an institution for the criminally insane) with the promise that he wouldn't run with sharp objects, and live out his days in debtful luxury.
Congress. Congress is the adjudicator when the president* disputes his incapacity.
Yes, but the courts will decide if he's fit to stand trial, and they might well decide he's legally sane even if congress deems him incapable of performing his duties.
Yeah ... The GOP record isn't exactly admirable ...
Last one, Eisenhower ...
Maybe, but looking at Donald Jr and Eric, the bar is set pretty low.
1) Hopefully, but I'm not holding my breath.
2) Not a lawyer; but possibly and hopefully.
3) Well, the election *has* been certified by both chambers of Congress--so, in that sense, it's been accepted. I'm not sure how dissenting Republicans could be forced to accept that without prevarication. They might be forced to *say* they accept it, under penalty of being censured by Congress. Their voters back home might be able to scare them into saying they accept it, on pain of a recall vote to oust them. But none of that would change what they actually believe.
But none of them believe it. It can't be believed. There again neither can Moon landing and climate denial, whereas a 6000 year Earth can be.
But I can't believe they believe it!
Not secession - no separation of territory has been contemplated.
Indeed. I suspect Martin meant sedition.
Are you sure? There are many on the US right who use the "S" word and they're not all painted crazies.
Some sort of *Trumpland*, isolated from the Rest Of The World (perhaps by the Bigliest Wall In The Universe) is an appealing thought...
Mind you, the locals might not be too keen...
I await future Inuit legends of hunting the Orange Walrus across the high Arctic.
I don't think any country should accept another's garbage. Dispose of it within country of origin.
AIUI, there are some far-flung Deserts in the US. Might one of them be suitable as Trumpland?
And the real world would be free of them.
*Yes, we know it's been done half a century ago but his followers probably don't accept facts like that