If any one song had to be chosen to show everything that's wrong with modern worship music this would be my choice.
Lumpen, dull tune and moronic words.
Have you thought of adding snippets of popular TV theme tunes into the mix? Obviously disguised with various ecclesiastical twiddles. Or musical phrases which play on some of the more moronic words and expressions?
You don’t have to actually play these during a service, of course 😉
Regarding the issue of sensitivity: holding people in one's heart, it might be instructive to extend the reference in Isaiah 6
8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”
9 He said, “Go and tell this people:
“‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’
10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.[a]
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”
11 Then I said, “For how long, Lord?”
And he answered:
“Until the cities lie ruined
and without inhabitant,
until the houses are left deserted
and the fields ruined and ravaged,
12 until the Lord has sent everyone far away
and the land is utterly forsaken.
13 And though a tenth remains in the land,
it will again be laid waste.
But as the terebinth and oak
leave stumps when they are cut down,
so the holy seed will be the stump in the land.”
We might also recall what God had to say to the simpering Boy Samuel:
1 Samuel 3. 10 Then Samuel said, “Speak, for your servant is listening.”
11 And the Lord said to Samuel: “See, I am about to do something in Israel that will make the ears of everyone who hears about it tingle. 12 At that time I will carry out against Eli everything I spoke against his family—from beginning to end. 13 For I told him that I would judge his family forever because of the sin he knew about; his sons blasphemed God,[a] and he failed to restrain them. 14 Therefore I swore to the house of Eli, ‘The guilt of Eli’s house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.’”
If any one song had to be chosen to show everything that's wrong with modern worship music this would be my choice.
Lumpen, dull tune and moronic words.
Have you thought of adding snippets of popular TV theme tunes into the mix? Obviously disguised with various ecclesiastical twiddles. Or musical phrases which play on some of the more moronic words and expressions? 😉
Don't joke. We had an organist who played the EastEnders theme at the end of the service.
If any one song had to be chosen to show everything that's wrong with modern worship music this would be my choice.
Lumpen, dull tune and moronic words.
Have you thought of adding snippets of popular TV theme tunes into the mix? Obviously disguised with various ecclesiastical twiddles. Or musical phrases which play on some of the more moronic words and expressions? 😉
Don't joke. We had an organist who played the EastEnders theme at the end of the service.
I guess it’s time to mention what Rossweisse would have pointed out—that there’s one line in the refrain of “Here I Am, Lord” that is reminiscent of the theme from “The Brady Bunch.”
Regarding the issue of sensitivity: holding people in one's heart, it might be instructive to extend the reference in Isaiah 6
8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”
9 He said, “Go and tell this people:
“‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’
10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.[a]
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”
11 Then I said, “For how long, Lord?”
And he answered:
“Until the cities lie ruined
and without inhabitant,
until the houses are left deserted
and the fields ruined and ravaged,
12 until the Lord has sent everyone far away
and the land is utterly forsaken.
13 And though a tenth remains in the land,
it will again be laid waste.
But as the terebinth and oak
leave stumps when they are cut down,
so the holy seed will be the stump in the land.”
We might also recall what God had to say to the simpering Boy Samuel:
1 Samuel 3. 10 Then Samuel said, “Speak, for your servant is listening.”
11 And the Lord said to Samuel: “See, I am about to do something in Israel that will make the ears of everyone who hears about it tingle. 12 At that time I will carry out against Eli everything I spoke against his family—from beginning to end. 13 For I told him that I would judge his family forever because of the sin he knew about; his sons blasphemed God,[a] and he failed to restrain them. 14 Therefore I swore to the house of Eli, ‘The guilt of Eli’s house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.’”
Nothing like context, is there?
Well, regardless of whether you see following God as a threatening of destruction or a message of love and forgiveness, surely the idea behind holding people in your heart remains the same - you are not isolating yourself from the people, but sharing and expressing God's concern for them. My own reading of the entire Bible would see the overall context as rather different from what you seem to be suggesting, but I am aware not all agree!
Fineline: My own reading of the entire Bible would see the overall context as rather different from what you seem to be suggesting, but I am aware not all agree!
A more than fair comment, and you could have referred me to the rest of Isaiah. I suppose I'm trying to point out that the task to which a prophet is called could be to warn of impending judgment prior to restoration.
Fineline: My own reading of the entire Bible would see the overall context as rather different from what you seem to be suggesting, but I am aware not all agree!
A more than fair comment, and you could have referred me to the rest of Isaiah. I suppose I'm trying to point out that the task to which a prophet is called could be to warn of impending judgment prior to restoration.
I do know some, from some types of churches, who have exactly this in mind when singing the song. They see themselves as important prophets in an evil world, and they are volunteering to be sent to be the warning. Though they are the kind to argue that the internet is evil, and that 'www' is Hebrew code for 666!
I see it more as a kind of surrendering myself to God, same as I do in my personal prayer, but being aware that it's not just a cosy 'me and God' individulistic thing, but that I am part of the world, of people with many different problems, and that prayer is not just holding myself before God, but holding the whole world, of which I am a tiny part.
I tend to think we are all grasping to understand God and our relationship to him with very limited human language and concepts, and that it is always incomplete. So, because humans are all so different, with different experiences, different ways of thinking, different culture and social class, different norms and values, different people use very different concepts and language to try to process and express their understanding of God. And God speaks to individuals in the language and norms that they are familiar with. Incomplete always, because of our human limitations. And this means many Christians judging other Christians as somehow wrong or inferior because of different language and concepts. The whole blind men describing the elephant story.
I agree there are many Christian hymns and songs that need to be used less often. By reducing the number of times they are used, they will be appreciated more.
'it's 'I will hold your people in my heart'. Just who is meant by 'your people'. Are we talking about the Jewish nation? or God's Elect? or My Brand of Christian? or Christians generally? monotheists? people of faith? the human race generally? The last would be my choice, but no doubt there are some who think otherwise.
Thank you, Moo, for remembering my parody version!
It's not a hymn I have great affection for. Rather twee and seems calculated to cause a guilt trip among most of us.
Those who are saying it's 'everything wrong with modern music' should perhaps bear in mind that 'modern' is relative. It dates from 1981, which as someone in my 50s I would love to think is modern, but is actually older than most of my work colleagues...
I haven't heard it since the 90s, and even then it wasn't used much in the circles I moved in. Most churches I go to now seem to regard this era as their parents' music or even grandparents in some cases.
Much as I love the reference to Leclerc lifting up his glasses, the lyrics of the hymn are "Is it I" rather than "It is I" unfortunately. But still, that association is there now in my head, along with Graham Kendrick's Ugly Duckling tribute ("You're my all, you're the best, with a waddle and a quack") and the '"Happy birthday" at the end of "O praise ye the Lord, praise Him in the height". So thanks for that.
Like Sing to the world of Christ our sovereign lord segues neatly into Bless her beautiful hide from Seven Brides for Seven Brothers.
The best/worst case of musical borrowing (!) Is Let there be loved shared among us which is really Les Bicyclettes de Belsize as sung by Englebert Humperdinck.
'it's 'I will hold your people in my heart'. Just who is meant by 'your people'. Are we talking about the Jewish nation? or God's Elect? or My Brand of Christian? or Christians generally? monotheists? people of faith? the human race generally? The last would be my choice, but no doubt there are some who think otherwise.
Hmmm. My thought is, perhaps, all of the above.
Schutte wrote “Here I Am, Lord” for an ordination service—specifically, the service at which some Jesuit friends were being ordained to the diaconate. In that context, I think it’s reasonable to assume that what he primarily had in mind by “your people” were those people to whom those newly-ordained deacons would be sent to minister. Of course, that conceivably can be a very large group, potentially meaning “everyone I come into contact with.” Ultimately, I think “I will hold your people in my heart” means “I will love those you send me to serve.”
And who are we sent to serve? Answering the question “Who is my neighbor?” comes to mind.
As an aside, and fwiw, Schutte’s intent was that the verses (in which God speaks and asks “Whom shall I send?”) should be sung by a soloist/cantor or small group, and only the refrain (the response “Here I am. Is it I? I will go.”) should be sung by the entire congregation.
Nick Tamen: I think it’s reasonable to assume that what he primarily had in mind by “your people” were those people to whom those newly-ordained deacons would be sent to minister
I completely agree. The hymn is not about the extent of salvation but about pastoral responsibility, or more widely the calling of any individual to a specific ministry.
Eirenist: I fear for many 'your people' are 'nice people, or 'my sort of people' or 'the deserving'.
You may be justified in your fear, Eirenist, but I did point out earlier that both the references to the call of Samuel (1 Samuel: 3) and Isaiah (Isiah: 6), are a call to prophesy harsh words to a people deserving of punishment.
Perhaps Schutte could have chosen a more apposite image or more coherently linked images. Not only, ISTM, does he conflate the calls of Samuel and Isaiah, but there are references to the call of Jesus and his Messianic calling: the fulfilment of Isaiah 58: 6 & 61:1,2 (see Luke 4: 16-21)
The third stanza is particularly inapposite, therefore, because it is about the unique mission of Jesus, so the answer to the question: "Whom shall I send?" is not the same answer to the question in stanzas one and two, which are about the commissioning of a prophet.
The confusion regarding who are 'my people", it could be argued, arises from the conflation of the unique Messianic anointment, where 'my people' are all those to be saved, and the calling to various expressions of discipleship, where any one mission is necessarily limited. The reference to the Messianic feast (Luke 14:15-24) is unhelpful. The problems raised by Eirenist are, perhaps, better resolved by Charles Wesley, after Luke 14:
Come, sinners, to the Gospel feast;
Let every soul be Jesus’ guest.
Ye need not one be left behind,
For God hath bidden all mankind. (Now altered to 'bid all humankind').
I fear for many 'your people' are 'nice people, or 'my sort ofpeople' or 'the deserving'.
Perhaps, though I’ve never heard it that way or heard anyone suggest that. It seems to me that would be “my people” or “our people” rather than “your people.”
But it seems that here we’re talking about assumptions we bring to the text, or misinterpretations of the text, not the text itself. Again, I think such assumptions and attempts to limit who we have to love are answered in the same way that Jesus answered the question “Who is my neighbor?”
I agree with Nick. People will bring their own interpretations to a hymn, same as they bring their own interpretations to the Bible. Those who like to criticise will do so. Those who like to look for an interpretation that works for them will do so. And whichever they do, it will be based on their own interpretation of the Bible and their own theology. Kind of like how some people listen to a sermon and think of other people it applies to and others listen to a sermon and try to apply it to their own life. And some judge the theology to see if it fits their own, while others look for something helpful they can take from it. In the same way, when a congregation sings a hymn together, I am very sure each person has something very different in their mind. And of course there will be some who are thinking about what they're going to have for lunch.
(Actually, that reminds me of the unsingable and dirgelike BCP Litany *Have mercy upon us mis-er-able SINNERS...*).
I didn't realise that ITLOSAS was meant to be sung by cantor and congregation. It makes better sense that way - worth bearing in mind if we ever get to sing hymns in church again...
... Schutte wrote “Here I Am, Lord” for an ordination service—specifically, the service at which some Jesuit friends were being ordained to the diaconate. In that context, I think it’s reasonable to assume that what he primarily had in mind by “your people” were those people to whom those newly-ordained deacons would be sent to minister. ...
Perhaps therefore, we ought to assume that "your people" only includes those in communion with the Holy See!
Enoch: Perhaps therefore, we ought to assume that "your people" only includes those in communion with the Holy See!
I'm not a Roman Catholic, myself, but I find the above reflection pretty small-minded, and an unreasonable construction to place on both the hymn (song if you will) and Nick's remarks. That is was composed for a specific case of a general phenomenon doesn't imply the writer must be dismissive of its relevance to the genus as a whole.
Like Sing to the world of Christ our sovereign lord segues neatly into Bless her beautiful hide from Seven Brides for Seven Brothers.
The best/worst case of musical borrowing (!) Is Let there be loved shared among us which is really Les Bicyclettes de Belsize as sung by Englebert Humperdinck.
Ernie Sands was a priest of our diocese. We don't use any of his hymns in our parish for reasons that a Google search will make plain.
Like Sing to the world of Christ our sovereign lord segues neatly into Bless her beautiful hide from Seven Brides for Seven Brothers.
The best/worst case of musical borrowing (!) Is Let there be loved shared among us which is really Les Bicyclettes de Belsize as sung by Englebert Humperdinck.
Ernie Sands was a priest of our diocese. We don't use any of his hymns in our parish for reasons that a Google search will make plain.
Darn. Sing of the Lord's goodness is a favourite of mine. May his name be forgotten.
Like Sing to the world of Christ our sovereign lord segues neatly into Bless her beautiful hide from Seven Brides for Seven Brothers.
The best/worst case of musical borrowing (!) Is Let there be loved shared among us which is really Les Bicyclettes de Belsize as sung by Englebert Humperdinck.
Ernie Sands was a priest of our diocese. We don't use any of his hymns in our parish for reasons that a Google search will make plain.
Darn. Sing of the Lord's goodness is a favourite of mine. May his name be forgotten.
Like Sing to the world of Christ our sovereign lord segues neatly into Bless her beautiful hide from Seven Brides for Seven Brothers.
The best/worst case of musical borrowing (!) Is Let there be loved shared among us which is really Les Bicyclettes de Belsize as sung by Englebert Humperdinck.
Ernie Sands was a priest of our diocese. We don't use any of his hymns in our parish for reasons that a Google search will make plain.
Darn. Sing of the Lord's goodness is a favourite of mine. May his name be forgotten.
Yes. Its great fun to play.
Should be, it's pretty much Dave Brubeck's Take Five minus a few twiddles.
It's a great song, but only if your musicians understand the jazz. I've heard abominable versions where the musicians have clearly never listened to Take Five.
Of course, this raises the question of whether someone's compositions should be abandoned because that person is a despicable pervert.
I did conclude the passage by saying *Here ends the first reading*, rather than the usual *This is the Word of the Lord*...
I have known ministers in similar situations to alter the usual “The Word of the Lord” to something like “The disturbing Word of the Lord,” “The unsettling Word of the Lord” or even “The Word of the Lord?”
I have encouraged, with some success, our congregation to end the reading with "May we hear the Word of the Lord through this reading" which could be understood as something like "Never do anything like that!"
It's a great song, but only if your musicians understand the jazz. I've heard abominable versions where the musicians have clearly never listened to Take Five.
Of course, this raises the question of whether someone's compositions should be abandoned because that person is a despicable pervert.
In this case it's academic because the number of worship groups I've known who can do 5/4 time is not high. Half of them struggle with 3/4...
Enoch:Perhaps therefore, we ought to assume that "your people" only includes those in communion with the Holy See!
hey hey I'm not a Roman Catholic, myself, but I find the above reflection pretty small-minded, and an unreasonable construction to place on both the hymn (song if you will) and Nick's remarks. That is was composed for a specific case of a general phenomenon doesn't imply the writer must be dismissive of its relevance to the genus as a whole.
Sorry about that @Kwesi. I was making an unsuccessful attempt at irony.
Enoch: Sorry about that @Kwesi. I was making an unsuccessful attempt at irony.
Perhaps on reflection my reaction was a bit prattish! I noted at the time you concluded your comment with an exclamation mark. Anyhow, as they say in the Eternal City, Te Absolvo. Pax.
So I looked it up. Vile man. And the article called him Father all the way through.
Indeed. He was in denial right to the end (mutual friend.) Our PP is vicar general for the diocese and has to spend a lot of his time dealing with the damage caused by Sands and his ilk. As you can imagine he has stringent views on the matter.
Comments
Have you thought of adding snippets of popular TV theme tunes into the mix? Obviously disguised with various ecclesiastical twiddles. Or musical phrases which play on some of the more moronic words and expressions?
You don’t have to actually play these during a service, of course 😉
We might also recall what God had to say to the simpering Boy Samuel:
Nothing like context, is there?
Don't joke. We had an organist who played the EastEnders theme at the end of the service.
!
Oh dear, another hymn that I won't be able to sing with a straight face ...
The theme music for 'Allo 'Allo is vastly superior to ITLOSAS 🤣
I'm always tempted to raise my glasses above my eyes when singing 'It is I, Lord'!
Well, regardless of whether you see following God as a threatening of destruction or a message of love and forgiveness, surely the idea behind holding people in your heart remains the same - you are not isolating yourself from the people, but sharing and expressing God's concern for them. My own reading of the entire Bible would see the overall context as rather different from what you seem to be suggesting, but I am aware not all agree!
A more than fair comment, and you could have referred me to the rest of Isaiah. I suppose I'm trying to point out that the task to which a prophet is called could be to warn of impending judgment prior to restoration.
I do know some, from some types of churches, who have exactly this in mind when singing the song. They see themselves as important prophets in an evil world, and they are volunteering to be sent to be the warning. Though they are the kind to argue that the internet is evil, and that 'www' is Hebrew code for 666!
I see it more as a kind of surrendering myself to God, same as I do in my personal prayer, but being aware that it's not just a cosy 'me and God' individulistic thing, but that I am part of the world, of people with many different problems, and that prayer is not just holding myself before God, but holding the whole world, of which I am a tiny part.
I tend to think we are all grasping to understand God and our relationship to him with very limited human language and concepts, and that it is always incomplete. So, because humans are all so different, with different experiences, different ways of thinking, different culture and social class, different norms and values, different people use very different concepts and language to try to process and express their understanding of God. And God speaks to individuals in the language and norms that they are familiar with. Incomplete always, because of our human limitations. And this means many Christians judging other Christians as somehow wrong or inferior because of different language and concepts. The whole blind men describing the elephant story.
Your measure may very as to whether it's intrusive, judgemental, over tolerent, etc...
It's not a hymn I have great affection for. Rather twee and seems calculated to cause a guilt trip among most of us.
Those who are saying it's 'everything wrong with modern music' should perhaps bear in mind that 'modern' is relative. It dates from 1981, which as someone in my 50s I would love to think is modern, but is actually older than most of my work colleagues...
I haven't heard it since the 90s, and even then it wasn't used much in the circles I moved in. Most churches I go to now seem to regard this era as their parents' music or even grandparents in some cases.
Much as I love the reference to Leclerc lifting up his glasses, the lyrics of the hymn are "Is it I" rather than "It is I" unfortunately. But still, that association is there now in my head, along with Graham Kendrick's Ugly Duckling tribute ("You're my all, you're the best, with a waddle and a quack") and the '"Happy birthday" at the end of "O praise ye the Lord, praise Him in the height". So thanks for that.
The best/worst case of musical borrowing (!) Is Let there be loved shared among us which is really Les Bicyclettes de Belsize as sung by Englebert Humperdinck.
Or 'Angel voices ever singing' into 'We are dainty little fairies' from Iolanthe.
Schutte wrote “Here I Am, Lord” for an ordination service—specifically, the service at which some Jesuit friends were being ordained to the diaconate. In that context, I think it’s reasonable to assume that what he primarily had in mind by “your people” were those people to whom those newly-ordained deacons would be sent to minister. Of course, that conceivably can be a very large group, potentially meaning “everyone I come into contact with.” Ultimately, I think “I will hold your people in my heart” means “I will love those you send me to serve.”
And who are we sent to serve? Answering the question “Who is my neighbor?” comes to mind.
As an aside, and fwiw, Schutte’s intent was that the verses (in which God speaks and asks “Whom shall I send?”) should be sung by a soloist/cantor or small group, and only the refrain (the response “Here I am. Is it I? I will go.”) should be sung by the entire congregation.
I completely agree. The hymn is not about the extent of salvation but about pastoral responsibility, or more widely the calling of any individual to a specific ministry.
I the Lord of wind and flame
I will tend the poor and lame
I will set a feast for them
All will attend.
Later versions change that "All will attend" to "My hand will save" which I think a pity (and it spoils the rhyme scheme, such as it is as well).
You may be justified in your fear, Eirenist, but I did point out earlier that both the references to the call of Samuel (1 Samuel: 3) and Isaiah (Isiah: 6), are a call to prophesy harsh words to a people deserving of punishment.
Perhaps Schutte could have chosen a more apposite image or more coherently linked images. Not only, ISTM, does he conflate the calls of Samuel and Isaiah, but there are references to the call of Jesus and his Messianic calling: the fulfilment of Isaiah 58: 6 & 61:1,2 (see Luke 4: 16-21)
The third stanza is particularly inapposite, therefore, because it is about the unique mission of Jesus, so the answer to the question: "Whom shall I send?" is not the same answer to the question in stanzas one and two, which are about the commissioning of a prophet.
The confusion regarding who are 'my people", it could be argued, arises from the conflation of the unique Messianic anointment, where 'my people' are all those to be saved, and the calling to various expressions of discipleship, where any one mission is necessarily limited. The reference to the Messianic feast (Luke 14:15-24) is unhelpful. The problems raised by Eirenist are, perhaps, better resolved by Charles Wesley, after Luke 14:
Come, sinners, to the Gospel feast;
Let every soul be Jesus’ guest.
Ye need not one be left behind,
For God hath bidden all mankind. (Now altered to 'bid all humankind').
But it seems that here we’re talking about assumptions we bring to the text, or misinterpretations of the text, not the text itself. Again, I think such assumptions and attempts to limit who we have to love are answered in the same way that Jesus answered the question “Who is my neighbor?”
Seriously though, ITLOSAS is so far from being the worst exemplar it's not even in the running.
(Actually, that reminds me of the unsingable and dirgelike BCP Litany *Have mercy upon us mis-er-able SINNERS...*).
I didn't realise that ITLOSAS was meant to be sung by cantor and congregation. It makes better sense that way - worth bearing in mind if we ever get to sing hymns in church again...
Agreed! I don't actually find it offensive, unlike some other examples of "popular worship songs".
I'm not a Roman Catholic, myself, but I find the above reflection pretty small-minded, and an unreasonable construction to place on both the hymn (song if you will) and Nick's remarks. That is was composed for a specific case of a general phenomenon doesn't imply the writer must be dismissive of its relevance to the genus as a whole.
Ernie Sands was a priest of our diocese. We don't use any of his hymns in our parish for reasons that a Google search will make plain.
Darn. Sing of the Lord's goodness is a favourite of mine. May his name be forgotten.
Yes. Its great fun to play.
Should be, it's pretty much Dave Brubeck's Take Five minus a few twiddles.
Of course, this raises the question of whether someone's compositions should be abandoned because that person is a despicable pervert.
I have encouraged, with some success, our congregation to end the reading with "May we hear the Word of the Lord through this reading" which could be understood as something like "Never do anything like that!"
An (apocalyptic) challenge to individuals rather than a petition for discernment by the community, IMHO.
YMMV.
Ha ha! Yes! Good old Ralph Wiggum. Poor child...
In this case it's academic because the number of worship groups I've known who can do 5/4 time is not high. Half of them struggle with 3/4...
Perhaps on reflection my reaction was a bit prattish! I noted at the time you concluded your comment with an exclamation mark. Anyhow, as they say in the Eternal City, Te Absolvo. Pax.
Indeed. He was in denial right to the end (mutual friend.) Our PP is vicar general for the diocese and has to spend a lot of his time dealing with the damage caused by Sands and his ilk. As you can imagine he has stringent views on the matter.