How is Brexit affecting us?

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  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    The Northern Ireland Government has 'suspended' health checks on dairy products a the ports of Belfast and Larne, following threats to the inspectors. Given the Unionists' violent opposition to the said checks, and the Unionist leadership of the NI government, this chain of events seems . . . interesting.
  • "Why are we hitting ourselves?"
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    Now comes news, in today's Times, that the EU is prolonging the embargo on the export of live shellfish from the UK indefinitely (it was supposed to be lifted in April) owing to the absence of purifiying facilities in the UK. This means ruin for many inshore British fisherfolk. It is, I think, becoming increasingly apparent that Michel Barnier is right. Once the global non-availability of Unicorns bcomes generally apparent, the UK will have no otheer recourse than to find some way of rejoining the common market, without, of course, admitting that it is doing so.
  • One of the interesting points in the media today, is the conflation of Brexit with leaving the single market. It was Mrs May who announced we would leave the latter, even though this was not mentioned in the referendum. And it seems to be the single market which is killing some companies, e.g., shellfish, because of course there are barriers for third countries outside the market, and these are non-tariff barriers. Food and livestock seem particularly badly hit.
  • I believe Irish firms are taking the sea route now, to avoid Holyhead/Dover.
  • jay_emmjay_emm Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »

    In the UK we've lost over 100,000 people from Covid 19 in about a year.

    For comparison, in WW2 the UK lost 450,000 (total deaths, military and civilian) in six years.
    Not quite correct. The 450K you quote is for 383K military deaths plus 67K civilian deaths due to military action ( bombing etc)

    There would have been many more deasths due to other causes.

    So what? 100k in a year due to Tory mismanagement of Covid pandemic
    vs
    450k in six years from war-related causes in wartime
    and how many a year due to other causes ?

    There is a background rate of about 1million/year.
    But as mentioned this is in excess (if you want to be pedantic on credit, as people don't live forever but that's year's off someones life) to the normal rate.
  • I believe Irish firms are taking the sea route now, to avoid Holyhead/Dover.

    I read somewhere that Stena Line (IIRC) has increased services on its Rosslare - Cherbourg route, which avoids Brexshit Island. I expect some transit times will be increased, but I bet it'll save a lot of useless paperwork...

  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    The effect of stopping health checks on food at Belfast and Lare will be that the EU will have to start checks at the Irish border, in breach of the NI protocol, which of course the Unionists wand to be trashed anyway. The BBC says there is no evidence that 'Loyalist' paramilitarists are behind this. Oh no?
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    The Brexshit is hitting the fan slowly, inevitably and inexorably.

    😢

    https://tinyurl.com/pb77wtj3 “Northern Ireland suspends Brexit checks amid safety fears for port staff.”

  • Agriculture and horticulture are taking quite a bit, especially between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, due to the phytosanitary restrictions on imports from outside the EU: there is a de facto ban on seed imports, apparently including from any EU countries, and also a prohibition on any soil crossing the Irish Sea, which rules out most live plant sales.
  • Hopefully the threats to port staff will be dealt with severely, and as soon as possible.

    Surely the lovely Snarlene and her Duppies don't want This Sort Of Thing?
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    @Telford , these are extra deaths, over and above the usual mortality rate. Don't be deliberately dense.

    That's not what the post said. I am very keen on accuracy as you well know
  • So keen that he always researches all the data he reports, linking to verifiable sources so we don't doubt the veracity of the data.
  • For which accuracy we are all very grateful, I'm sure.

    Perhaps it's not so much his reporting that is questionable, as his sources (the Daily Wail for example)?
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    I am very keen on accuracy as you well know
    If Telford were keen on accuracy he wouldn't have added "as you well know".
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Dafyd wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    I am very keen on accuracy as you well know
    If Telford were keen on accuracy he wouldn't have added "as you well know".

    Good point, well made.

  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    French media have been reporting that maritime traffic through Cherbourg (ie. coming from Ireland) has increased massively of late. Nonetheless as a regular purchaser of British goods - English tea, baked beans, orange marmalade and the like - I am finding it noticeably harder to get hold of said items. Imports from the UK are definitely not arriving as smoothly as once they did AFAICT.
  • Dafyd wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    I am very keen on accuracy as you well know
    If Telford were keen on accuracy he wouldn't have added "as you well know".

    Although he might have added a .
  • French media have been reporting that maritime traffic through Cherbourg (ie. coming from Ireland) has increased massively of late. Nonetheless as a regular purchaser of British goods - English tea, baked beans, orange marmalade and the like - I am finding it noticeably harder to get hold of said items. Imports from the UK are definitely not arriving as smoothly as once they did AFAICT.

    Alas, it is with a heavy heart that I express my fear that the reverse will apply, and that French CHEESE and WINE may be difficult to find in Unicornland.
    :disappointed:

    I hope, tomorrow, to make an expotition to the Co-Op, which usually has a supply of Comte CHEESE...we shall see what we shall see...
  • Furtive GanderFurtive Gander Shipmate
    edited February 2
    Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »

    In the UK we've lost over 100,000 people from Covid 19 in about a year.

    For comparison, in WW2 the UK lost 450,000 (total deaths, military and civilian) in six years.
    Not quite correct. The 450K you quote is for 383K military deaths plus 67K civilian deaths due to military action ( bombing etc)

    There would have been many more deasths due to other causes.

    So what? 100k in a year due to Tory mismanagement of Covid pandemic
    vs
    450k in six years from war-related causes in wartime
    and how many a year due to other causes ?

    It's not relevant to my point that Tory laziness and incompetence caused more* (excess) deaths in a year than the annual average excess deaths in WW2 caused by enemy action and any war-related causes.

    If you're interested in sdeaths from other causes you find out, then tell us, along with how knowing those numbers diminishes this snapshot of Tory mismanagement.
    ---
    *Let's be charitable and admit that not all those 100,000 deaths are directly due to the Tories but only a proportion; how about 'only' 50,000 dead people caused by Johnson and his Tory government? Less? More? If it's 'only' 50,000 excess deaths (with the other 50,000 deaths virtually unavoidable) does this make the Tories look good?
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    French media have been reporting that maritime traffic through Cherbourg (ie. coming from Ireland) has increased massively of late. Nonetheless as a regular purchaser of British goods - English tea, baked beans, orange marmalade and the like - I am finding it noticeably harder to get hold of said items. Imports from the UK are definitely not arriving as smoothly as once they did AFAICT.

    Who do you blame for this? Who is blocking my Bratwurst ?
    Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »

    In the UK we've lost over 100,000 people from Covid 19 in about a year.

    For comparison, in WW2 the UK lost 450,000 (total deaths, military and civilian) in six years.
    Not quite correct. The 450K you quote is for 383K military deaths plus 67K civilian deaths due to military action ( bombing etc)

    There would have been many more deasths due to other causes.

    So what? 100k in a year due to Tory mismanagement of Covid pandemic
    vs
    450k in six years from war-related causes in wartime
    and how many a year due to other causes ?

    It's not relevant to my point that Tory laziness and incompetence caused more* (excess) deaths in a year than the annual average excess deaths in WW2 caused by enemy action and any war-related causes.

    If you're interested in sdeaths from other causes you find out, then tell us, along with how knowing those numbers diminishes this snapshot of Tory mismanagement.
    ---

    If we have more than 450K extra deaths due to covid in a 6 year period , your comparison might be relevant.

    *Let's be charitable and admit that not all those 100,000 deaths are directly due to the Tories but only a proportion; how about 'only' 50,000 dead people caused by Johnson and his Tory government? Less? More? If it's 'only' 50,000 excess deaths (with the other 50,000 deaths virtually unavoidable) does this make the Tories look good?
    This government have not been killing people. People transmitting the virus have been killing people. Of course the government have made mistakes but we should not be excusing selfish and irresponsible behaviour.
  • And, when the selfish and irresponsible behaviour has been the actions of the government? Delaying lockdown to allow baby shower? Letting rich toffs race their horses at Cheltenham with thousands of people present? Give massive PPE contracts to chums without any experience in supplying PPE while the health service and carers were making do with bin bags? Giving a company with a track record of expensive failures the track and trace contract while the expertise that already existed was ignored?
  • Telford wrote: »
    French media have been reporting that maritime traffic through Cherbourg (ie. coming from Ireland) has increased massively of late. Nonetheless as a regular purchaser of British goods - English tea, baked beans, orange marmalade and the like - I am finding it noticeably harder to get hold of said items. Imports from the UK are definitely not arriving as smoothly as once they did AFAICT.

    1: Who do you blame for this? Who is blocking my Bratwurst ?
    Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »

    In the UK we've lost over 100,000 people from Covid 19 in about a year.

    For comparison, in WW2 the UK lost 450,000 (total deaths, military and civilian) in six years.
    Not quite correct. The 450K you quote is for 383K military deaths plus 67K civilian deaths due to military action ( bombing etc)

    There would have been many more deasths due to other causes.

    So what? 100k in a year due to Tory mismanagement of Covid pandemic
    vs
    450k in six years from war-related causes in wartime
    and how many a year due to other causes ?

    It's not relevant to my point that Tory laziness and incompetence caused more* (excess) deaths in a year than the annual average excess deaths in WW2 caused by enemy action and any war-related causes.

    If you're interested in sdeaths from other causes you find out, then tell us, along with how knowing those numbers diminishes this snapshot of Tory mismanagement.
    ---

    2: If we have more than 450K extra deaths due to covid in a 6 year period , your comparison might be relevant.

    *Let's be charitable and admit that not all those 100,000 deaths are directly due to the Tories but only a proportion; how about 'only' 50,000 dead people caused by Johnson and his Tory government? Less? More? If it's 'only' 50,000 excess deaths (with the other 50,000 deaths virtually unavoidable) does this make the Tories look good?
    This government have not been killing people. People transmitting the virus have been killing people. Of course the government have made mistakes but we should not be excusing selfish and irresponsible behaviour.

    1: Are you alluding to underwear difficulties Telford?

    2: I'm taking the WW2 average (excess) death toll in the hope that even Johnson and his mates can't keep up this level of incompetence regarding deaths for six bloody (sic) years. Let's pray he doesn't get the chance.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited February 2
    Telford is worried about his sausage.

    (That is NOT a coded message, BTW. Or maybe it is :naughty: ).
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    French media have been reporting that maritime traffic through Cherbourg (ie. coming from Ireland) has increased massively of late. Nonetheless as a regular purchaser of British goods - English tea, baked beans, orange marmalade and the like - I am finding it noticeably harder to get hold of said items. Imports from the UK are definitely not arriving as smoothly as once they did AFAICT.

    1: Who do you blame for this? Who is blocking my Bratwurst ?
    Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »

    In the UK we've lost over 100,000 people from Covid 19 in about a year.

    For comparison, in WW2 the UK lost 450,000 (total deaths, military and civilian) in six years.
    Not quite correct. The 450K you quote is for 383K military deaths plus 67K civilian deaths due to military action ( bombing etc)

    There would have been many more deasths due to other causes.

    So what? 100k in a year due to Tory mismanagement of Covid pandemic
    vs
    450k in six years from war-related causes in wartime
    and how many a year due to other causes ?

    It's not relevant to my point that Tory laziness and incompetence caused more* (excess) deaths in a year than the annual average excess deaths in WW2 caused by enemy action and any war-related causes.

    If you're interested in sdeaths from other causes you find out, then tell us, along with how knowing those numbers diminishes this snapshot of Tory mismanagement.
    ---

    2: If we have more than 450K extra deaths due to covid in a 6 year period , your comparison might be relevant.

    *Let's be charitable and admit that not all those 100,000 deaths are directly due to the Tories but only a proportion; how about 'only' 50,000 dead people caused by Johnson and his Tory government? Less? More? If it's 'only' 50,000 excess deaths (with the other 50,000 deaths virtually unavoidable) does this make the Tories look good?
    This government have not been killing people. People transmitting the virus have been killing people. Of course the government have made mistakes but we should not be excusing selfish and irresponsible behaviour.

    1: Are you alluding to underwear difficulties Telford?
    No. Why do you ask ?
    2: I'm taking the WW2 average (excess) death toll in the hope that even Johnson and his mates can't keep up this level of incompetence regarding deaths for six bloody (sic) years. Let's pray he doesn't get the chance.
    When I said that the government have made mistakes, what bit didn't you understand

  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    And, when the selfish and irresponsible behaviour has been the actions of the government? Delaying lockdown to allow baby shower? Letting rich toffs race their horses at Cheltenham with thousands of people present? Give massive PPE contracts to chums without any experience in supplying PPE while the health service and carers were making do with bin bags? Giving a company with a track record of expensive failures the track and trace contract while the expertise that already existed was ignored?

    'Rich Toffs racing their horses' sounds like a left wing moan. Nobody forced people to crowd Cheltenham Racecourse. I certainly wouldn't have gone near the place. However, you're right. It shouldn't have been allowed. The government have this habit of making decisions a bit too late and making expensive mistakes. The voters will not forgive them...I assume
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    Nobody forced people to crowd Cheltenham Racecourse.

    I betcha any number of people were forced to deal with these people after they had swum in this covid stew.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Nobody forced people to crowd Cheltenham Racecourse.

    I betcha any number of people were forced to deal with these people after they had swum in this covid stew.

    I totally agree and I thought so at the time. Same with football crowds.

    Some people will certainly do daft things if they are allowed to do them

  • Telford wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Nobody forced people to crowd Cheltenham Racecourse.

    I betcha any number of people were forced to deal with these people after they had swum in this covid stew.

    I totally agree and I thought so at the time. Same with football crowds.

    Some people will certainly do daft things if they are allowed to do them

    A lot of people reasonably expect things not to be allowed if the things are really that daft. A government that assumes everyone can make accurate risk assessments of a completely new situation is so divorced from reality it's dangerous.
  • It's a well known phenomenon. We all know that if a section of road has a posted 50 limit that what that means is that you are permitted to drive up to 50mph if it is safe to do so, yet we also know that a significant number of drivers will take it to mean that 50mph is safe and drive at 55mph even when the road is wet and there are patches of fog. If the government says an event can go ahead, many people will assume that it would be safe to attend (afterall, the government is supposed to be there to keep us safe) - other examples would be opening "air corridors" which resulted in many people dashing off to Spain and elsewhere, which scientists were saying was an activity very likely to result in further transmission of the virus (and, also carried the risk of the bridge being closed at short notice). It's simply not possible to rely on everyone to act in a safe manner based on their common sense, what's needed is clear instructions on what's permitted.
  • If you follow various threads, you will see - for example - shopping in person at least weekly in preference to ordering online, because substitutions are annoying. This seems to me to make no sense whatsoever, why would you go to an indoor space full of strangers if you don’t actually need to ?
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    If you follow various threads, you will see - for example - shopping in person at least weekly in preference to ordering online, because substitutions are annoying. This seems to me to make no sense whatsoever, why would you go to an indoor space full of strangers if you don’t actually need to ?

    I agree. All our shopping is online now. It takes a bit more planning as slots need to be booked two weeks ahead, but that’s fine. I just fill the basket with wine then amend it the day before. Our excellent butcher delivers - as, I am sure, most do.

  • Telford wrote: »

    'Rich Toffs racing their horses' sounds like a left wing moan.

    Yes. One mustn't criticize the well-off or the rich for their pandemic-spreading leisure pursuits, however much one must criticize low-income parents/people on benefits etc for not having the wherewithal to feed their kids or house their families adequately, or to isolate properly without fear of going broke.

    Consider forelock obediently tugged, guv'nor!

  • Telford wrote: »
    Nobody forced people to crowd Cheltenham Racecourse.

    Unless you were working at Cheltenham Racecourse that day, serving drinks, catering, cleaning toilets, taking bets at the Tote, stewarding, driving, and everything else that's involved in running a large event. Call it at least a 1000 people, most of whom were on low wages and uncertain contracts.

    So yes. They were forced. Undoubtedly some of them were subsequently ill, and are suffering long term effects, or they died.

    This is also where the virus spread from. And it was entirely the government's fault.
  • *checks thread name*

    Ok. So apparently this is the Brexit thread.

    I'm going to slap myself on the wrist, and ask folk to try and keep on topic here. Virus related nonsense can go in the Virus thread, or the Johnson one.

    DT
    HH
  • Boogie wrote: »
    If you follow various threads, you will see - for example - shopping in person at least weekly in preference to ordering online, because substitutions are annoying. This seems to me to make no sense whatsoever, why would you go to an indoor space full of strangers if you don’t actually need to ?

    I agree. All our shopping is online now. It takes a bit more planning as slots need to be booked two weeks ahead.

    Assuming booking a slot is even possible.
  • And what you want is available: there is a shortage of senior cat food sachets which anecdotally appears to be fairly widespread. Last Tesco delivery they couldn't substitute something else, this time it wasn't even available to order, and I haven't found any in ASDA recently.
  • In other news, I finally got my helmet delivered yesterday. Five weeks after I ordered it. We should probably all get used to that kind of length of time for anything vaguely specialised.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited February 3
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    In other news, I finally got my helmet delivered yesterday. Five weeks after I ordered it. We should probably all get used to that kind of length of time for anything vaguely specialised.

    Not to mention the increased postal charges, customs duty etc. etc. if you are so unpatriotic as to order an item (be it never so vital to you) from anywhere outside Our Sovereign Borders.
    Boogie wrote: »
    If you follow various threads, you will see - for example - shopping in person at least weekly in preference to ordering online, because substitutions are annoying. This seems to me to make no sense whatsoever, why would you go to an indoor space full of strangers if you don’t actually need to ?

    I agree. All our shopping is online now. It takes a bit more planning as slots need to be booked two weeks ahead.

    Assuming booking a slot is even possible.

    Yes, although I wonder if delays and difficulties with online shopping/deliveries are perhaps caused more by the pandemic* than Brexshit. I daresay the latter is a contributory factor, nevertheless.

    *Hugely increased demand, coupled with a shortage of delivery staff?

  • Pendragon wrote: »
    And what you want is available: there is a shortage of senior cat food sachets which anecdotally appears to be fairly widespread. Last Tesco delivery they couldn't substitute something else, this time it wasn't even available to order, and I haven't found any in ASDA recently.

    Same here (Aberdeenshire). Also, Elizabeth quickly gets bored of the same food all the time, so I rotate between Whiskas, Felix and Tesco own-brand, buying whichever is on "Buy 2 get 1 free offer" and there hasn't been an offer in the last two weeks. I don't know if that's related to Brexit in any way, but it will be a de facto 50% price increase if so.

    Fortunately we have built up a large stock of half-empty boxes of sachets as , when Elizabeth decides she's bored, we put away the box away for a couple of months until she's become bored of everything else.
  • According to this Ian Paisley Jnr is feeling 'like a foreigner in his own country' because of how the NI Protocol Brexit business is working out (or not). I certainly don't want to belittle anyone's experience of threatened citizenship as a result of this complicated and mucked around with process. But so far as this gentleman is concerned, my response was that the only country Freeloading Ian (for example) would feel at home in is Egregious Greedy Bastard Country.

    I don't suppose there's a way we could round them all up and find them their own little world to live in?! :wink:
  • That has long been my proposal for all Brexshitters including our in house examples. Let them find another suitable rock and stew in their own vainglorious greedy grasping juices
  • RicardusRicardus Shipmate
    Anselmina wrote: »
    According to this Ian Paisley Jnr is feeling 'like a foreigner in his own country' because of how the NI Protocol Brexit business is working out (or not).

    It's almost as though saying No to everything means someone else takes the decisions ...

    (To be fair the DUP aren't the only ones with this problem. But they do seem to have a unique brand of victimised self-righteousness.)
  • for all eternity.
    :innocent:
  • But it is ironic and probably amusing, that leaving the EU has forced some people to realize how they are bound by EU rules.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited February 3
    The whole Brexshit mess is awash with irony...

    Alas, Brexshitters have no sense of humour, or of irony, but they might just notice when their wads of £££ get adversely affected.
  • I should just clarify, by the way, that when I said 'round them all up' I was referring quite specifically to the likes of Ian Paisley Jnr. I don't want to conflate people of his venal nature with law-abiding folks however they might've voted.
  • It's still amazing that lots of fishermen, farmers, small businesses, etc., voted for Brexit, and are now squawking at the results. Well, they were lied to.
  • Sorry, this annoyed me, but not enough for another Hell thread:
    If you follow various threads, you will see - for example - shopping in person at least weekly in preference to ordering online, because substitutions are annoying. This seems to me to make no sense whatsoever, why would you go to an indoor space full of strangers if you don’t actually need to ?

    That would be because when you're dealing with anaphylaxis levels of allergy, substitutions can either mean allergic reactions that require the use of an EpiPen then calling out an ambulance, or no food. And I prefer the risk of the supermarket over that of A&E or not eating, having a sad preference for keeping my offspring alive. TBH, it usually means no food.


    To comply and get back on thread, has anyone else noticed the story about shellfish? That the shellfish ban is likely to be indefinite BBC story here
    The EU has told British fishermen they are indefinitely banned from selling live mussels, oysters, clams, cockles and scallops to its member states.

    As the UK is now a separate country, it is not allowed to transport the animals to the EU unless they have already been treated in purification plants.

    That's another industry in dire straits.
  • Well, they were lied to.

    It's more complicated than that, though. Yes, they were lied to, but also, there was another group of people pointing out that they were being lied to. So they chose to believe the lies, for whatever reason. Perhaps the liars were more convincing, perhaps the lied-to wanted the lies to be true, perhaps they knew they were being lied to but thought the people calling the lies out were also lying.

    Whatever: they are at least partly culpable for their own situations.
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