Alleged Visions of Pope St. Pius X

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Comments

  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    You couldn't make it up @Golden Key. We'd correlated just about every OT tribe with modern nations first.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Firenze wrote: »
    Why I linked to it (any excuse to introduce Tom Lehrer always welcome).

    "Doing the Vatican Rag (genuflect, genuflect, genuflect)"
  • Tom Lehrer is a genius. Poisoning pigeons in the park, anyone? We'll all go together when we go?
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    In one great and incandescent glow.
    When the fission is uraneous
    We'll all go simultaneous,
    Yes, we'll all go together when we go.
  • When it comes to writing obscure books, Tom Lehrer's Lobachevsky says it all...

    Plagiarise, plagiarise, plagiarise!
    Only be sure always to call it research...
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    undead_rat wrote: »
    Global Nuclear War will be next (it's in Jewish Scripture.)

    No, it isn't.
    Try Jeremiah 25:32-33 for starters:

    See! The disaster spreads
    from nation to nation.
    A mighty tempest rises
    from the far ends of the world.
    Those slaughtered that day will be scattered across the world from end to end. No dirge will be raised for them; no one will gather them or bury them. They will stay lying on the surface like dung.

  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    So Jeremiah was prophesying that there would be a global nuclear war 2500 years in the future?

    That sounds like a completely pointless thing to be doing. What was anybody supposed to do about it?
  • The great Jewish Rabbi, Yeshu ben Pantera, predicted the same thing when he said:

    I have come to bring fire to the earth, and how I wish it were blazing already!

    You ask: what is the purpose? In the overall scheme of things I view the building of nuclear weapons arsenals as a violation of YHWH's laws to trust Him and to love our neighbors.
    The coming global nuclear war will be YHWH's ultimate lesson to mankind on the necessity of obeying His laws. The predictions warn us and give a chance to avoid disaster by following YHWH's law. We could do that by undertaking unilateral nuclear disarmament and trusting in YHWH for our futures.
  • I agree with you about the morality of nuclear weapons. I just don't see any reason to twist ancient prophecies to apply to them. Is it a case of "when all you have is ancient prophecy everything looks like a nail"?
  • The Jewish prophets and Rabbi Yeshu himself all predict some kind of world-wide disaster that will be even greater than Noah's flood (if you believe in that.) The prophecies are not all exactly the same, but all are consistent with what the effects of a global nuclear war would be.

    In Genesis 8:21 YHWH promises that He will never again be the cause of a disaster which would threaten to exterminate the human race. In my opinion, the only way to resolve this statement with the later prophecies of such a disaster is to hypothesize a global nuclear war as the source of the event.

    I find Psalm 9:15-16 instructive:

    The nations have fallen into the pit that they dug;
    they are caught by the feet in the snare they set themselves.
    YHWH has made Himself known, has given judgement.
    He has trapped the wicked in the work of their own hands.


    Nations have built massive nuclear weapons arsenals.
    They now realize the danger, but cannot seem to find a way out.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    If I wanted to treat that as a prophecy it'd equally fit with our ecological climate crisis. But that's the thing about this stuff - you can make it fit anything. It's like horoscopes.
  • Exactly.

    As the great prophet Humpty Dumpty so solemnly declared *Words mean what I want them to mean!*
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    undead_rat wrote: »
    The great Jewish Rabbi, Yeshu ben Pantera, predicted the same thing when he said:

    I have come to bring fire to the earth, and how I wish it were blazing already!

    You ask: what is the purpose? In the overall scheme of things I view the building of nuclear weapons arsenals as a violation of YHWH's laws to trust Him and to love our neighbors.
    The coming global nuclear war will be YHWH's ultimate lesson to mankind on the necessity of obeying His laws. The predictions warn us and give a chance to avoid disaster by following YHWH's law. We could do that by undertaking unilateral nuclear disarmament and trusting in YHWH for our futures.
    If we avoid disaster, then these will all have been false prophecies.

    And again, what would have been the point of telling people to beware of nuclear weapons 2500 years ago?
  • Jonah preached destruction to Nineveh, they repented, and YHWH relented. Jonah was quite put out that the prophecy he had been given did not come true. It can happen, but doesn't look like it's going to in the present case.
  • Do you actually believe the story of Jonah in the literal sense?
    :open_mouth:

    literal
    /ˈlɪt(ə)r(ə)l/

    adjective:
    taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or exaggeration


    BTW, if the prophecy didn't come true, how do we know it was actually made in the first place, rather than being a tale told later?
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    undead_rat wrote: »
    Jonah preached destruction to Nineveh, they repented, and YHWH relented. Jonah was quite put out that the prophecy he had been given did not come true. It can happen, but doesn't look like it's going to in the present case.

    But why would you warn people two and a half millennia beforehand? That's just stupid.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited January 18
    An Orty Thort occurs...I wonder if @undead_rat is actually channelling Mike Pence, or some other fruitloop fundygelical (there are plenty to choose from), and would like Jerusalem (or somewhere) to be nuked, so as to make Jesus return?
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Dave W wrote: »
    undead_rat wrote: »
    Jonah preached destruction to Nineveh, they repented, and YHWH relented. Jonah was quite put out that the prophecy he had been given did not come true. It can happen, but doesn't look like it's going to in the present case.

    But why would you warn people two and a half millennia beforehand? That's just stupid.

    Look, it's THAT serious! I mean, we can't say we weren't warned!
  • @undead_rat, you keep throwing out bits of the prophets and of other writings, all of which could be interpreted any number of ways, and declaring that they predict something like the Holocaust or nuclear war, but you don’t give anything to support your interpretation. So, two questions:

    First, why should anyone here think you are interpreting any of these writings, scriptural or not-scriptural, correctly?

    And second, what difference does it make, or should it make? Because from my perspective, focusing on stuff like this is a major distraction from and distortion of the message we’re actually supposed to be getting from Scripture. It’s not just a waste of time, it’s completely missing the point.

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Nick Tamen - thanks for that, but I think we can both predict what the answer is going to be.
  • undead_rat wrote: »
    The great Jewish Rabbi, Yeshu ben Pantera, predicted the same thing when he said:

    I have come to bring fire to the earth, and how I wish it were blazing already!

    You ask: what is the purpose? In the overall scheme of things I view the building of nuclear weapons arsenals as a violation of YHWH's laws to trust Him and to love our neighbors.
    The coming global nuclear war will be YHWH's ultimate lesson to mankind on the necessity of obeying His laws. The predictions warn us and give a chance to avoid disaster by following YHWH's law. We could do that by undertaking unilateral nuclear disarmament and trusting in YHWH for our futures.

    Why the slur on Jesus' parentage?

    You do know what "ben Pantera" means, right?
  • LC--
    undead rat--


    I wondered that, too, and looked it up last night.

    Panthera (Jesus's father) (Wikipedia).

    "Pantera" is an alt spelling. Made it hard to find something relevant, because hits about the Pantera *band* rose to the top.

    It has to do with an idea that Jesus' dad was a Roman soldier, rather than God. I've heard the idea--even that Mary was raped and "no human father" was a cover-up. But I don't think I'd heard of this particular version.

    I was a little surprised that someone who's deeply into Christian (and particularly Catholic) prophecy would seemingly hold the Pantera belief, too.

    Not that it's necessarily bad to hold both, but a little surprising.
  • There’s a pizza place by that name, too.

    But I’m inclined to think our interlocutor did NOT know what he was referencing. Which is unwise, if so.
  • Martin--
    Martin54 wrote: »
    You couldn't make it up @Golden Key. We'd correlated just about every OT tribe with modern nations first.

    I bet. Especially if I remember correctly what your old group was, from their TV teachings.

    Out of curiosity: Franz Josef Strauss the composer (which I assumed), or the German politician of the same name?

    BTW: I'm glad for you that you found your way out of there.
    :)
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    The latter. I'd still be enmeshed in it if it hadn't deconstructed itself.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    There’s a pizza place by that name, too.

    But I’m inclined to think our interlocutor did NOT know what he was referencing. Which is unwise, if so.

    He should have made pizza his life's work.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited January 19
    As the song says *Give pizza a chance...*

    Ah, but stay - pizza is Italian, and the Vatican City is surrounded by Italy...could there be some eldritch and nameless meaning to this fact? Is there, in some Auncient Boke, a prophecy that The End Of The World will come about through a sort of cheese-on-toast dish?
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Yeah! And the dessert to follow?
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    It's a bit like a 'Tongue team' One come out with rehearsed 'Speaking in togues' and the other says the rehearsed interpretation.
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Yeah! And the dessert to follow?

    That has not yet been Revealed - but may have something to do with Olives...
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Yeah! And the dessert to follow?

    That has not yet been Revealed - but may have something to do with Olives...

    ISIS
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Your man reads like a Messianic Jewish reject. He's certainly a Catholic reject: About you banned from CAF, and I can't see any of the 19 religious establishments in Pewaukee, WI except the one at the Point Burger Bar having the right... fit.
  • Martin54 wrote: »

    He should have made pizza his life's work.

    Oops . . .didn't think of that. Too late now . . .
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    undead_rat wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »

    He should have made pizza his life's work.

    Oops . . .didn't think of that. Too late now . . .

    Then you redeem yourself @undead_rat, as in a less fantastical contribution here. And I've always liked this expression.
  • Don't worry, i am bound to revert to the insanity soon enough.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    undead_rat wrote: »
    Don't worry, i am bound to revert to the insanity soon enough.

    @undead_rat, I'm sorry, but you are a nice guy who's a tad away with the fairies; I'm the opposite.
  • As in *A Nice Guy who's LOTS away with the Fairies..*.
    :naughty:
  • Martin54 wrote: »

    @undead_rat, I'm sorry, but you are a nice guy who's a tad away with the fairies; I'm the opposite.

    Don't be sorry. it took me years of thought (read "imagination") to become acquainted with the fairies. i consider it to be my greatest accomplishment.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    undead_rat wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »

    @undead_rat, I'm sorry, but you are a nice guy who's a tad away with the fairies; I'm the opposite.

    Don't be sorry. it took me years of thought (read "imagination") to become acquainted with the fairies. i consider it to be my greatest accomplishment.

    I love a good faerie story. Mythago Wood, The Anubis Gates, Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell.
  • I can think of a few more...Genesis, Jonah, Job...

    BTW, am I alone in thinking that the thread title refers to people seeing visions of Pius X, rather than that person's own visions?

    IYSWIM.
  • His own visions, I think.
  • Yes, but the title seemed ambiguous. It's all a tad obscure, anyway.
  • I can think of a few more...Genesis, Jonah, Job...

    I am sorry that you feel that way. These Jewish Scriptures are full of wisdom, truth, and prophecy. Take Isaiah 3:17-24 for instance. Here you will find a very good description of conditions for Jewish women in WW II slave labor camps.
  • Dave W wrote: »

    And again, what would have been the point of telling people to beware of nuclear weapons 2500 years ago?

    I don't know. All that I can relate is that the predictions are there.
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    undead_rat wrote: »
    I can think of a few more...Genesis, Jonah, Job...

    I am sorry that you feel that way. These Jewish Scriptures are full of wisdom, truth, and prophecy. Take Isaiah 3:17-24 for instance. Here you will find a very good description of conditions for Jewish women in WW II slave labor camps.

    Really? Like how they lost the "tinkling ornaments of their feet", and their "nose jewels"?

    And previously you said Isaiah 3:19 was "taking shelter in underground, which is the only defense against a nuclear attack." Kind of a weird thing for Jewish women in slave labor camps to do, isn't it?

  • @Dave W - my interpretation of undead_rat's reference to that passage in Isaiah (but which one of them?) is that the bit about jewels refers to WW2, but the bit about being underground refers to the Coming Global Nuclear War.

    See? It's a useful dual-purpose prophecy, to be used in appropriate (or not) situations, as they arise (or after they arose).
    undead_rat wrote: »
    I can think of a few more...Genesis, Jonah, Job...

    I am sorry that you feel that way. These Jewish Scriptures are full of wisdom, truth, and prophecy.

    Thank you for your sympathy. I don't deny that the Jewish (and other) Scriptures may contain wisdom and truth.

    So do many fairy stories.

  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    There’s nothing in Isaiah 3:19 about being underground:
    19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    undead_rat wrote: »
    Take Isaiah 3:17-24 for instance. Here you will find a very good description of conditions for Jewish women in WW II slave labor camps.
    The passage is a good description of any city that has been conquered and its people taken into slavery and exile. There's no need to make it specific. Also, if it were about slave labour camps it's got a funny sense of priorities: I'd at least give a mention to the slave labour.
    Besides which you cut off the passage which continues to 4:1, which does not fit so well.

  • Dave W wrote: »
    There’s nothing in Isaiah 3:19 about being underground:
    19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,

    No indeed - it was undead_rat who reckoned it referred to some sort of underground shelter. At least, I think that's what he meant, but the whole thing is so confused that I might have got it wrong...
    Dafyd wrote: »
    undead_rat wrote: »
    Take Isaiah 3:17-24 for instance. Here you will find a very good description of conditions for Jewish women in WW II slave labor camps.
    The passage is a good description of any city that has been conquered and its people taken into slavery and exile. There's no need to make it specific. Also, if it were about slave labour camps it's got a funny sense of priorities: I'd at least give a mention to the slave labour.
    Besides which you cut off the passage which continues to 4:1, which does not fit so well.

    Quite so.
  • Sorry, my bad. I meant to say "Isaiah 2:19"
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