Well, in the case of shellfish the rules exist for safety considerations, reducing the incidence of food poisoning among those who eat them. I doubt anyone sensible person disagrees with that aim.
If it's safe to land untreated French clams from substandard waters, then it's also safe to land untreated British clams. I guess ultimately the rule that I'm querying is the rule that purification plants are open to members but not non-members. I can see a protectionist reason for this but not a safety reason.
(Although I am assuming that these plants are run on a commercial basis.)
The rules specifying that shellfish need to be cleaned prior to shipping to the EU reflect the simple fact that documenting and checking the status of imported goods is relatively simple at the point of import, once goods are inside the border then things become much harder.
But surely from a safety perspective, the documentation should be separate from rules-of-origin paperwork and should be equally bureaucratic (for a very good reason) for members? That is, from a safety perspective, a French clam has as much need as a British clam to prove that it is either from clean waters or it has been purified.
But World Trade rules mean that it’s not just British clams (or cockles or mussels) that are in view. Britain can’t be treated with greater preference than other non-EU nations which might want to bring shellfish to market in the EU.
Here’s a link to the EU’s general requirements for the importation of shellfish. This applies to any non-EU country, including Britain.
Presumably Britain overlooked this or failed to include the necessary recognition for it to be included as a ‘listed country’ during the negotiations.
But World Trade rules mean that it’s not just British clams (or cockles or mussels) that are in view. Britain can’t be treated with greater preference than other non-EU nations which might want to bring shellfish to market in the EU.
Here’s a link to the EU’s general requirements for the importation of shellfish. This applies to any non-EU country, including Britain.
Presumably Britain overlooked this or failed to include the necessary recognition for it to be included as a ‘listed country’ during the negotiations.
I'm not saying the UK should be exempt from the rule, but querying why the rule exists at all. I guess the logical endpoints of what I'm saying would be any of:
1. Purifcation plants should be open to non-members, whether they are British, Russian, Ukrainian, or whatever;
2. No-one should be able to land clams from substandard waters even if they come from EU member states;
3. The status quo is perfectly fine, but it should be acknowledged as a protectionist measure rather than a safety measure.
Option (4), that purification plants should be open to the British but not the Russians, Ukrainians, etc, is indeed unicorn cake.
The Seafood was perfectly safe in December but now it's not. I blame the EU
No. The seafood was acceptable in December, but now it's not. The change in the situation lies in the UK's choice to unilaterally alter the circumstances of what was once guaranteed acceptable to what is now neither guaranteed nor acceptable; as a result of which the EU are naturally not going to extend favourable EU terms to non-EU nations. Logically the 'blame' lies with the UK. Just as you might say the 'credit' would lie with the UK should Brexit bring about benefits.
It's the age old story of choices having consequences. Brexiteers can complain that, in response to the UK's decision to leave the EU, the EU are not being nice and kind and generous. But it is still in response to the UK decision to leave the EU. Point Zero - or 'the blame' - will always in a sense go back to that ballot-box, and the various influences which persuaded people to vote in certain ways. As sure as God made little green apples, if anything positive happens with regard to Brexit (and one might be tempted to point to the Vaccine situation), Brexiteers will be Chanticleer on the dung heap crowing about the success of 'their' decision to leave. Well, 'their' decision to leave is bringing with it whole shedloads of very serious economic problems, and with regard to my own country potentially dangerous problems involving security in a highly sectarian atmosphere. It would be refreshing to see, for once, some Brexiteers having the balls to own 'their' decision and the (fairly predictable as they were at the time) consequences.
Like Trump, the Brexiteers, and our Brexiteer government, persist in regarding all trading relationships as purely transactional. But international organisations like the EU and the WTO (remember 'WTO terms') are rules-based and those rules cannot be by-passed to suit one country. This is why Trump hated, and I imagine still hates, both the EU and the WTO with equal venom, and has done whatever he could to sabotage them, including cheering on Brexit. The EU is manifestly less efficient without the UK.
@Eirenist said: The EU is manifestly less efficient without the UK.
This may well prove to be true, but is it perhaps a bit early to say so yet?
I don't doubt that the EU as a whole will be adversely affected by our disastrous (for us) flounce, but to what extent this will undermine the Union is surely not yet known.
The Seafood was perfectly safe in December but now it's not. I blame the EU
The EU doesn't know whether anything has changed yet. Probably it hasn't yet. If it's too soon for things to have changed how long is it reasonable for the EU to wait before it decides UK goods might not be up to EU standards any more?
(The important point though is that, as lots of people on the thread have pointed out, as the EU is applying those rules to Turkey and Algeria it has by WTO rules to apply the same to us.
If Johnson's government had cared at all about it they could have put it in the deal. There are civil servants whose job it is to think about these things. If Johnson didn't know it's because he didn't listen.)
The UK could always apply to be a listed country within the regulations, or it could have included being a listed country in the negotiated Brexit package. I don’t know why it won’t apply or why that option wasn’t agreed as part of Brexit.
The UK could always apply to be a listed country within the regulations, or it could have included being a listed country in the negotiated Brexit package. I don’t know why it won’t apply or why that option wasn’t agreed as part of Brexit.
The fact that the TCA was signed late on Christmas Eve with almost no proper scrutiny probably has something to do with it. Trade agreements ordinarily involve years of complex negotiations. This one was a back-of-a-fag packet job cobbled together to meet an entirely arbitrary deadline. No doubt it contains numerous timebombs like the shellfish issue, some of which may tick away for months or years.
If it was anything like the local nativity it wasn't particularly onerous.
<tangent>Four different illustrations on A4 sheets of paper up in shop windows, complete with QR codes to be collected. The images were of the shepherds, magi, Herod(?) and a donkey. The QR codes linked to an existing website.</tangent>
Goodness. I'm all for minimalist liturgy, but that does seem a bit...er...lacking. No picture of Joseph and Mary? Or even the little Lord Jesus asleep on the hay?
Back to the Fishes.
It may be that being forced to eat Fish at his date with Ursula somehow reacted on The Lord Protector's *mind*, making him forget about the entire question.
Seeing that the Fish was M Barnier's choice, it becomes abundantly clear that the EU is to blame.
And what you want is available: there is a shortage of senior cat food sachets which anecdotally appears to be fairly widespread. Last Tesco delivery they couldn't substitute something else, this time it wasn't even available to order, and I haven't found any in ASDA recently.
Same here (Aberdeenshire). Also, Elizabeth quickly gets bored of the same food all the time, so I rotate between Whiskas, Felix and Tesco own-brand, buying whichever is on "Buy 2 get 1 free offer" and there hasn't been an offer in the last two weeks. I don't know if that's related to Brexit in any way, but it will be a de facto 50% price increase if so.
Fortunately we have built up a large stock of half-empty boxes of sachets as , when Elizabeth decides she's bored, we put away the box away for a couple of months until she's become bored of everything else.
@Pendragon I'm just back from Tesco. Plenty of cat food, but some sections were empty, including the senior food. I'd say between 1/4 to 1/3 of the shelves were empty gaps. There was a sign up saying that the next delivery would be on 7 Feb, so presumably people are asking.
Also, there were no special offers, so it looks as though my cat food bill will be going up.
Any other cat-owners know if this is related to Brexit?
The Seafood was perfectly safe in December but now it's not. I blame the EU.
This is, of course, a false statement. The safety of the seafood has not changed in the slightest, and is also not affected by EU rules.
As has been pointed out already, the EU can have whatever rules it likes about its internal production of seafood. It can apply different rules to seafood whose origin is outwith the EU, but unless the EU has a trade treaty with some non-EU country covering seafood, it must, under WTO rules, treat all non-EU countries on the same basis.
The EU has not decided to treat UK seafood differently from before. The UK left the EU, so moved itself from the category "internal EU rules apply" to the category "rules about external countries apply". The UK has not negotiated a trade treaty about seafood with the EU.
What is the choice that you seem to think the EU has made?
The choice to be awkward. The arrangements that applied last year could have continued
It may be that being forced to eat Fish at his date with Ursula somehow reacted on The Lord Protector's *mind*, making him forget about the entire question.
Seeing that the Fish was M Barnier's choice, it becomes abundantly clear that the EU is to blame.
And what you want is available: there is a shortage of senior cat food sachets which anecdotally appears to be fairly widespread. Last Tesco delivery they couldn't substitute something else, this time it wasn't even available to order, and I haven't found any in ASDA recently.
Same here (Aberdeenshire). Also, Elizabeth quickly gets bored of the same food all the time, so I rotate between Whiskas, Felix and Tesco own-brand, buying whichever is on "Buy 2 get 1 free offer" and there hasn't been an offer in the last two weeks. I don't know if that's related to Brexit in any way, but it will be a de facto 50% price increase if so.
Fortunately we have built up a large stock of half-empty boxes of sachets as , when Elizabeth decides she's bored, we put away the box away for a couple of months until she's become bored of everything else.
@Pendragon I'm just back from Tesco. Plenty of cat food, but some sections were empty, including the senior food. I'd say between 1/4 to 1/3 of the shelves were empty gaps. There was a sign up saying that the next delivery would be on 7 Feb, so presumably people are asking.
Also, there were no special offers, so it looks as though my cat food bill will be going up.
Any other cat-owners know if this is related to Brexit?
It may be that being forced to eat Fish at his date with Ursula somehow reacted on The Lord Protector's *mind*, making him forget about the entire question.
Seeing that the Fish was M Barnier's choice, it becomes abundantly clear that the EU is to blame.
Once again, I am obliged to agree with you
On which point?
The sentence you have placed in bold type derives from that immediately before it. Do you agree with my whimsical, and ironic, fancy that The Lord Protector's *mind* was somehow affected by his having to eat Fish, and that he therefore completely forgot to sort out the fisheries question?
IOW, did you read the post, or did you just mindlessly and automatically type one of your standard ripostes?
It may be that being forced to eat Fish at his date with Ursula somehow reacted on The Lord Protector's *mind*, making him forget about the entire question.
Seeing that the Fish was M Barnier's choice, it becomes abundantly clear that the EU is to blame.
Once again, I am obliged to agree with you
On which point?
The sentence you have placed in bold type derives from that immediately before it. Do you agree with my whimsical, and ironic, fancy that The Lord Protector's *mind* was somehow affected by his having to eat Fish, and that he therefore completely forgot to sort out the fisheries question?
IOW, did you read the post, or did you just mindlessly and automatically type one of your standard ripostes?
You blamed the EU and I agreed with you. Is that clear enough for you ?
Brexit means lies, lies and more lies. Piled up on top of an unseemly heap of incompetence and that from people who should know and are paid enough to know better
It's known because it's quite simple. The EU has defined and well published rules regarding imports from outwith the EU. If a country puts themselves outside the EU then those rules apply unless that nation makes alternative arrangements (either negotiates membership of the Single Market and Customs Union, eg: like Norway, or negotiating a comprehensive trade deal which is several years of detailed work).
In 2016 this was well known, and the solution proposed by the Vote Leave campaign was to remain in the Single Market and Customs Union. The option chosen by Theresa May was to leave the Single Market and Customs Union and negotiate a comprehensive trade deal (even though it was a tall order given the very short timescale). The option of Mr Johnson was to bin the work started by the May government and wing it in the hope that the EU would just waive the rules.
And what you want is available: there is a shortage of senior cat food sachets which anecdotally appears to be fairly widespread. Last Tesco delivery they couldn't substitute something else, this time it wasn't even available to order, and I haven't found any in ASDA recently.
Same here (Aberdeenshire). Also, Elizabeth quickly gets bored of the same food all the time, so I rotate between Whiskas, Felix and Tesco own-brand, buying whichever is on "Buy 2 get 1 free offer" and there hasn't been an offer in the last two weeks. I don't know if that's related to Brexit in any way, but it will be a de facto 50% price increase if so.
Fortunately we have built up a large stock of half-empty boxes of sachets as , when Elizabeth decides she's bored, we put away the box away for a couple of months until she's become bored of everything else.
@Pendragon I'm just back from Tesco. Plenty of cat food, but some sections were empty, including the senior food. I'd say between 1/4 to 1/3 of the shelves were empty gaps. There was a sign up saying that the next delivery would be on 7 Feb, so presumably people are asking.
Also, there were no special offers, so it looks as though my cat food bill will be going up.
Any other cat-owners know if this is related to Brexit?
"Senior food"? Is that next to the pet food?
That would be unfortunate for those elderly who went shopping without their glasses.
But World Trade rules mean that it’s not just British clams (or cockles or mussels) that are in view. Britain can’t be treated with greater preference than other non-EU nations which might want to bring shellfish to market in the EU.
Here’s a link to the EU’s general requirements for the importation of shellfish. This applies to any non-EU country, including Britain.
Presumably Britain overlooked this or failed to include the necessary recognition for it to be included as a ‘listed country’ during the negotiations.
I'm not saying the UK should be exempt from the rule, but querying why the rule exists at all. I guess the logical endpoints of what I'm saying would be any of:
1. Purifcation plants should be open to non-members, whether they are British, Russian, Ukrainian, or whatever;
2. No-one should be able to land clams from substandard waters even if they come from EU member states;
3. The status quo is perfectly fine, but it should be acknowledged as a protectionist measure rather than a safety measure.
I suspect the reality is that there is a broad range of 'sub-standard' from 'capable of purification' down to 'radioactive and glowing', and going down route 1 would involve constantly litigation.
Brexit means lies, lies and more lies. Piled up on top of an unseemly heap of incompetence and that from people who should know and are paid enough to know better
What is your source for this very unusal definition ?
Brexit means lies, lies and more lies. Piled up on top of an unseemly heap of incompetence and that from people who should know and are paid enough to know better
What is your source for this very unusal definition ?
Books and intuition. I believe Ethne Alba is big on both.
It's known because it's quite simple. The EU has defined and well published rules regarding imports from outwith the EU. If a country puts themselves outside the EU then those rules apply unless that nation makes alternative arrangements (either negotiates membership of the Single Market and Customs Union, eg: like Norway, or negotiating a comprehensive trade deal which is several years of detailed work).
In 2016 this was well known, and the solution proposed by the Vote Leave campaign was to remain in the Single Market and Customs Union. The option chosen by Theresa May was to leave the Single Market and Customs Union and negotiate a comprehensive trade deal (even though it was a tall order given the very short timescale). The option of Mr Johnson was to bin the work started by the May government and wing it in the hope that the EU would just waive the rules.
Always good to read a comprehensive and sensible post.
And what you want is available: there is a shortage of senior cat food sachets which anecdotally appears to be fairly widespread. Last Tesco delivery they couldn't substitute something else, this time it wasn't even available to order, and I haven't found any in ASDA recently.
Same here (Aberdeenshire). Also, Elizabeth quickly gets bored of the same food all the time, so I rotate between Whiskas, Felix and Tesco own-brand, buying whichever is on "Buy 2 get 1 free offer" and there hasn't been an offer in the last two weeks. I don't know if that's related to Brexit in any way, but it will be a de facto 50% price increase if so.
Fortunately we have built up a large stock of half-empty boxes of sachets as , when Elizabeth decides she's bored, we put away the box away for a couple of months until she's become bored of everything else.
@Pendragon I'm just back from Tesco. Plenty of cat food, but some sections were empty, including the senior food. I'd say between 1/4 to 1/3 of the shelves were empty gaps. There was a sign up saying that the next delivery would be on 7 Feb, so presumably people are asking.
Also, there were no special offers, so it looks as though my cat food bill will be going up.
Any other cat-owners know if this is related to Brexit?
"Senior food"? Is that next to the pet food?
In this case food for older cats: it's less calorific, as they are less active, so more prone to getting too portly. As the servant of two double digit aged felines, for at least one of whom Kibble Does Not Agree with them, I normally get through a box of 40 per week.
I do honestly think that when the EU negotiators were explaining exactly what the UK decision to withdraw from everything actually meant, our lot must have had their ears stopped up with cheese. (The dreadful mild "cheddar" stuff supermarkets sell.)
Just because one initiates a divorce doesn't mean that the future relationship shouldn't be amicable
Yeah, but you seem to want to initiate a divorce, but still come back for a shag a couple of times a week. Divorcing couples usually aren't that friendly.
Just because one initiates a divorce doesn't mean that the future relationship shouldn't be amicable
Yeah, but you seem to want to initiate a divorce, but still come back for a shag a couple of times a week. Divorcing couples usually aren't that friendly.
Just because one initiates a divorce doesn't mean that the future relationship shouldn't be amicable
Yeah, but you seem to want to initiate a divorce, but still come back for a shag a couple of times a week. Divorcing couples usually aren't that friendly.
That's not what I said or what I meant
You have been continually advocating that various aspects of UK-EU trade should just carry on working the same way as they did before Brexit, and blaming the EU for choosing not to do that. I'd say my characterization was fair.
And what you want is available: there is a shortage of senior cat food sachets which anecdotally appears to be fairly widespread. Last Tesco delivery they couldn't substitute something else, this time it wasn't even available to order, and I haven't found any in ASDA recently.
Same here (Aberdeenshire). Also, Elizabeth quickly gets bored of the same food all the time, so I rotate between Whiskas, Felix and Tesco own-brand, buying whichever is on "Buy 2 get 1 free offer" and there hasn't been an offer in the last two weeks. I don't know if that's related to Brexit in any way, but it will be a de facto 50% price increase if so.
Fortunately we have built up a large stock of half-empty boxes of sachets as , when Elizabeth decides she's bored, we put away the box away for a couple of months until she's become bored of everything else.
@Pendragon I'm just back from Tesco. Plenty of cat food, but some sections were empty, including the senior food. I'd say between 1/4 to 1/3 of the shelves were empty gaps. There was a sign up saying that the next delivery would be on 7 Feb, so presumably people are asking.
Also, there were no special offers, so it looks as though my cat food bill will be going up.
Any other cat-owners know if this is related to Brexit?
"Senior food"? Is that next to the pet food?
In this case food for older cats: it's less calorific, as they are less active, so more prone to getting too portly. As the servant of two double digit aged felines, for at least one of whom Kibble Does Not Agree with them, I normally get through a box of 40 per week.
I do honestly think that when the EU negotiators were explaining exactly what the UK decision to withdraw from everything actually meant, our lot must have had their ears stopped up with cheese. (The dreadful mild "cheddar" stuff supermarkets sell.)
I use fetch.co.uk for cat food - I have to get specialist vet food for mine and supply seems to be ok. But I buy bulk to get free delivery so I don't order often. I think it's a subsidiary of Ocado.
Just because one initiates a divorce doesn't mean that the future relationship shouldn't be amicable
Yeah, but you seem to want to initiate a divorce, but still come back for a shag a couple of times a week. Divorcing couples usually aren't that friendly.
That's not what I said or what I meant
You have been continually advocating that various aspects of UK-EU trade should just carry on working the same way as they did before Brexit, and blaming the EU for choosing not to do that. I'd say my characterization was fair.
The EU are obsessed with their rules so I accept that it was fair
Ok @Telford . There really is nothing v interesting on telly anyway, something about cars I think. So I ll bite.
I think we all aware of the fabulously factually inaccurate Brexit Campaign? As we are not in the House of Commons I call it lies. You might disagree? We can agree to differ.
Do you have a problem with ‘Unseemly heap of incompetence?‘
I refer you to everyone whose livelihood has been beggered up by Brexit
In spite of
The very many civil servants who have spent a mind numbing few years attempting to install some sense into successive Prime Ministers. Yes BJ was warned, very many times too , by people who knew what they were talking about.
Those civil servants are not at all surprised and also mightily hacked off.
Ok @Telford . There really is nothing v interesting on telly anyway, something about cars I think. So I ll bite.
I think we all aware of the fabulously factually inaccurate Brexit Campaign? As we are not in the House of Commons I call it lies. You might disagree? We can agree to differ.
BIB....On both sides
Do you have a problem with ‘Unseemly heap of incompetence?‘
I refer you to everyone whose livelihood has been beggered up by Brexit
In spite of
The very many civil servants who have spent a mind numbing few years attempting to install some sense into successive Prime Ministers. Yes BJ was warned, very many times too , by people who knew what they were talking about.
Those civil servants are not at all surprised and also mightily hacked off.
As am I
Many mistakes have been made. What do you suggest that I do about it.
Just because one initiates a divorce doesn't mean that the future relationship shouldn't be amicable
Yeah, but you seem to want to initiate a divorce, but still come back for a shag a couple of times a week. Divorcing couples usually aren't that friendly.
That's not what I said or what I meant
You have been continually advocating that various aspects of UK-EU trade should just carry on working the same way as they did before Brexit, and blaming the EU for choosing not to do that. I'd say my characterization was fair.
The EU are obsessed with their rules so I accept that it was fair
Just because one initiates a divorce doesn't mean that the future relationship shouldn't be amicable
Yeah, but you seem to want to initiate a divorce, but still come back for a shag a couple of times a week. Divorcing couples usually aren't that friendly.
That's not what I said or what I meant
You have been continually advocating that various aspects of UK-EU trade should just carry on working the same way as they did before Brexit, and blaming the EU for choosing not to do that. I'd say my characterization was fair.
The EU are obsessed with their rules so I accept that it was fair
Ok @Telford . There really is nothing v interesting on telly anyway, something about cars I think. So I ll bite.
I think we all aware of the fabulously factually inaccurate Brexit Campaign? As we are not in the House of Commons I call it lies. You might disagree? We can agree to differ.
BIB....On both sides
I may regret this.
The lies on the Leave side are well documented and legion (eg: fictional numbers like £350m on buses). What lies were told by the Remain campaign?
Just because one initiates a divorce doesn't mean that the future relationship shouldn't be amicable
Yeah, but you seem to want to initiate a divorce, but still come back for a shag a couple of times a week. Divorcing couples usually aren't that friendly.
That's not what I said or what I meant
You have been continually advocating that various aspects of UK-EU trade should just carry on working the same way as they did before Brexit, and blaming the EU for choosing not to do that. I'd say my characterization was fair.
The EU are obsessed with their rules so I accept that it was fair
Deleted.
It's still showing
I think Alan might have meant that his reply to what you said had been deleted...
Ok @Telford . There really is nothing v interesting on telly anyway, something about cars I think. So I ll bite.
I think we all aware of the fabulously factually inaccurate Brexit Campaign? As we are not in the House of Commons I call it lies. You might disagree? We can agree to differ.
BIB....On both sides
I may regret this.
The lies on the Leave side are well documented and legion (eg: fictional numbers like £350m on buses). What lies were told by the Remain campaign?
How was the £350m a fictional number? It was a guesstimate
Remain lie....‘Two thirds of British jobs in manufacturing are dependent on demand from Europe’...Not even close
Comments
If it's safe to land untreated French clams from substandard waters, then it's also safe to land untreated British clams. I guess ultimately the rule that I'm querying is the rule that purification plants are open to members but not non-members. I can see a protectionist reason for this but not a safety reason.
(Although I am assuming that these plants are run on a commercial basis.)
But surely from a safety perspective, the documentation should be separate from rules-of-origin paperwork and should be equally bureaucratic (for a very good reason) for members? That is, from a safety perspective, a French clam has as much need as a British clam to prove that it is either from clean waters or it has been purified.
Here’s a link to the EU’s general requirements for the importation of shellfish. This applies to any non-EU country, including Britain.
Presumably Britain overlooked this or failed to include the necessary recognition for it to be included as a ‘listed country’ during the negotiations.
I'm not saying the UK should be exempt from the rule, but querying why the rule exists at all. I guess the logical endpoints of what I'm saying would be any of:
1. Purifcation plants should be open to non-members, whether they are British, Russian, Ukrainian, or whatever;
2. No-one should be able to land clams from substandard waters even if they come from EU member states;
3. The status quo is perfectly fine, but it should be acknowledged as a protectionist measure rather than a safety measure.
Option (4), that purification plants should be open to the British but not the Russians, Ukrainians, etc, is indeed unicorn cake.
As it is, we knew the rules, Byzantine though they may be. We were happy with them before.
No. The seafood was acceptable in December, but now it's not. The change in the situation lies in the UK's choice to unilaterally alter the circumstances of what was once guaranteed acceptable to what is now neither guaranteed nor acceptable; as a result of which the EU are naturally not going to extend favourable EU terms to non-EU nations. Logically the 'blame' lies with the UK. Just as you might say the 'credit' would lie with the UK should Brexit bring about benefits.
It's the age old story of choices having consequences. Brexiteers can complain that, in response to the UK's decision to leave the EU, the EU are not being nice and kind and generous. But it is still in response to the UK decision to leave the EU. Point Zero - or 'the blame' - will always in a sense go back to that ballot-box, and the various influences which persuaded people to vote in certain ways. As sure as God made little green apples, if anything positive happens with regard to Brexit (and one might be tempted to point to the Vaccine situation), Brexiteers will be Chanticleer on the dung heap crowing about the success of 'their' decision to leave. Well, 'their' decision to leave is bringing with it whole shedloads of very serious economic problems, and with regard to my own country potentially dangerous problems involving security in a highly sectarian atmosphere. It would be refreshing to see, for once, some Brexiteers having the balls to own 'their' decision and the (fairly predictable as they were at the time) consequences.
This may well prove to be true, but is it perhaps a bit early to say so yet?
I don't doubt that the EU as a whole will be adversely affected by our disastrous (for us) flounce, but to what extent this will undermine the Union is surely not yet known.
(The important point though is that, as lots of people on the thread have pointed out, as the EU is applying those rules to Turkey and Algeria it has by WTO rules to apply the same to us.
If Johnson's government had cared at all about it they could have put it in the deal. There are civil servants whose job it is to think about these things. If Johnson didn't know it's because he didn't listen.)
The fact that the TCA was signed late on Christmas Eve with almost no proper scrutiny probably has something to do with it. Trade agreements ordinarily involve years of complex negotiations. This one was a back-of-a-fag packet job cobbled together to meet an entirely arbitrary deadline. No doubt it contains numerous timebombs like the shellfish issue, some of which may tick away for months or years.
<tangent>Four different illustrations on A4 sheets of paper up in shop windows, complete with QR codes to be collected. The images were of the shepherds, magi, Herod(?) and a donkey. The QR codes linked to an existing website.</tangent>
Back to the Fishes.
It may be that being forced to eat Fish at his date with Ursula somehow reacted on The Lord Protector's *mind*, making him forget about the entire question.
Seeing that the Fish was M Barnier's choice, it becomes abundantly clear that the EU is to blame.
@Pendragon I'm just back from Tesco. Plenty of cat food, but some sections were empty, including the senior food. I'd say between 1/4 to 1/3 of the shelves were empty gaps. There was a sign up saying that the next delivery would be on 7 Feb, so presumably people are asking.
Also, there were no special offers, so it looks as though my cat food bill will be going up.
Any other cat-owners know if this is related to Brexit?
But Boris didnt negotiate for the rules to continue.
Once again, I am obliged to agree with you
"Senior food"? Is that next to the pet food?
On which point?
The sentence you have placed in bold type derives from that immediately before it. Do you agree with my whimsical, and ironic, fancy that The Lord Protector's *mind* was somehow affected by his having to eat Fish, and that he therefore completely forgot to sort out the fisheries question?
IOW, did you read the post, or did you just mindlessly and automatically type one of your standard ripostes?
You blamed the EU and I agreed with you. Is that clear enough for you ?
It is, however, clear that you are unable to read a post with comprehension.
Whether this is deliberate, or whether you're just not very bright, I leave to others to decide.
https://theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/04/cancer-drugs-binned-because-of-brexit-red-tape-mps-hear
If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall still condemn me
Once again, you need to be reminded that Brexshit was the UK's idea.
I wonder how many times this has to be said to you before you begin to comprehend it? Seven times? Seventy times seven?
It's Brexit by the way
Just because one initiates a divorce doesn't mean that the future relationship shouldn't be amicable
Brexit means Brexit.
Brexit means lies, lies and more lies. Piled up on top of an unseemly heap of incompetence and that from people who should know and are paid enough to know better
In 2016 this was well known, and the solution proposed by the Vote Leave campaign was to remain in the Single Market and Customs Union. The option chosen by Theresa May was to leave the Single Market and Customs Union and negotiate a comprehensive trade deal (even though it was a tall order given the very short timescale). The option of Mr Johnson was to bin the work started by the May government and wing it in the hope that the EU would just waive the rules.
That would be unfortunate for those elderly who went shopping without their glasses.
I suspect the reality is that there is a broad range of 'sub-standard' from 'capable of purification' down to 'radioactive and glowing', and going down route 1 would involve constantly litigation.
OTOH within the EU there other ways of taking care of the same thing.
So it could be a protectionist measure, but the facts are capable of alternative interpretations.
Always good to read a comprehensive and sensible post.
In this case food for older cats: it's less calorific, as they are less active, so more prone to getting too portly. As the servant of two double digit aged felines, for at least one of whom Kibble Does Not Agree with them, I normally get through a box of 40 per week.
I do honestly think that when the EU negotiators were explaining exactly what the UK decision to withdraw from everything actually meant, our lot must have had their ears stopped up with cheese. (The dreadful mild "cheddar" stuff supermarkets sell.)
Yeah, but you seem to want to initiate a divorce, but still come back for a shag a couple of times a week. Divorcing couples usually aren't that friendly.
You have been continually advocating that various aspects of UK-EU trade should just carry on working the same way as they did before Brexit, and blaming the EU for choosing not to do that. I'd say my characterization was fair.
I use fetch.co.uk for cat food - I have to get specialist vet food for mine and supply seems to be ok. But I buy bulk to get free delivery so I don't order often. I think it's a subsidiary of Ocado.
https://fetch.co.uk/senior-cat-food?blogpost_020719_5waystoloseweight
The EU are obsessed with their rules so I accept that it was fair
I think we all aware of the fabulously factually inaccurate Brexit Campaign? As we are not in the House of Commons I call it lies. You might disagree? We can agree to differ.
Do you have a problem with ‘Unseemly heap of incompetence?‘
I refer you to everyone whose livelihood has been beggered up by Brexit
In spite of
The very many civil servants who have spent a mind numbing few years attempting to install some sense into successive Prime Ministers. Yes BJ was warned, very many times too , by people who knew what they were talking about.
Those civil servants are not at all surprised and also mightily hacked off.
As am I
Deleted.
It's still showing
The lies on the Leave side are well documented and legion (eg: fictional numbers like £350m on buses). What lies were told by the Remain campaign?
I think Alan might have meant that his reply to what you said had been deleted...
How was the £350m a fictional number? It was a guesstimate
Remain lie....‘Two thirds of British jobs in manufacturing are dependent on demand from Europe’...Not even close