What now for the disciples of Trump Christ?

2

Comments

  • chrisstileschrisstiles Shipmate
    edited January 22
    It strikes me that DIY research is a bit like DIY plumbing or DIY car maintenance. If you know what you're doing, the results can be beneficial and satisfying, but it's easy to take on something you don't realise is beyond your capabilities with disastrous results. I once discovered this after connecting a washing-machine in my first-floor flat, and so did my downstairs neighbours.

    I'd add to this that much of the 'research' that goes on in Q circles is the kind of 'unprovable assertion A could therefore have some connection to unproven assertion B'. It's very reminiscent of reading something by Velikovsky or a YEC.

    The other parallel with YEC is that the argumentation style is frequently in the form of a Gish' Gallop (see the examples here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGrfN3v5JL8 )
  • What is this thing called Foot Bawl of which some of you speak?
    :confused:

    As regards the Trumpians, has anything been heard of, or from, the egregiously ghastly Kenneth Copeland? He who laughed maniacally when it was announced that Mr Biden had won the election? He who cursed Covid-19 unsuccessfully, and then magicked up the South Wind to bloooooooooooow it away (also unsuccessfully)?

    No?

    O good...

  • :smile:
    We’re rediscovering some hoary old chestnuts. ‘A little knowledge is a dangerous thing’!
  • As regards the Trumpians, has anything been heard of, or from, the egregiously ghastly Kenneth Copeland? He who laughed maniacally when it was announced that Mr Biden had won the election? He who cursed Covid-19 unsuccessfully, and then magicked up the South Wind to bloooooooooooow it away (also unsuccessfully)?

    No?

    O good...

    Hey! I was prepared to watch a Paula White-Cain video. Someone else can bite the bullet and find out what Copeland has been saying.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited January 22
    O bother. I guessed someone would say that...
    :flushed:

    I'll have a look on YouTube. If I survive the ordeal, I'll report back. Or not (said he, hoping some other Mug* might volunteer).

    (*not referring to you @Rufus T Firefly - au contraire, I admire your courage).
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited January 22
    Penny S wrote: »
    Hopefully. But they do try conversion.
    I see some R woman on the Capitol is filing papers of impeachment against Biden! According to the Twitter account I wasn't going to look at - but there's a news story about a Haredi wedding of 400 people broken up by police in North London, and I thought she might have something to say about it. But no.

    One of my stepsons tried to convert me (911, Moon Landings, Kennedy, the lot), but I just insist on being nice to him. I went as far as saying we have different epistemologies, apologizing for being utterly trapped in mine, and where shall we do lunch? Then we'd watch Russian guys shoot up old cars and stuff. He doesn't do football either.
  • You touched it last :smile:
  • Huia wrote: »

    I would have thought a divided opposition would allow the Democrats to tack left as they could win seats with fewer votes, so they could afford to lose a few centrists.

    That's an interesting question. The last election here (NZ) resulted in a landslide for Labour. They attracted votes from National (the more conservative large party), and electorates that had been solidly National for decades were won by Labour. It seems to me that they have responded by moving more towards the centre, rather than further left because they are hoping to keep at least some of those supporters in the long term.

    NZ has a PR system though, which works on very different imperatives to a FPTP system like in the US or UK. It's not hard to conceive of a situation where Democrats get 40% of the vote, with the GOP on 30% and the Trumpers on 30% in (say) Kansas and the Democrats end up stealing a senate seat. That sort of pattern could return Democratic supermajorities in both houses as well as securing the presidency. Now I'll grant that the situation is unlikely to be quite as favourable to the Dems as the right splitting 50-50, but it wouldn't take much to tip the senate comfortably blue. Even a uniform national swing of 5% caused by Trump stealing GOP votes could be decisive.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    You watch both the Republican parties suddenly become great believers in PR based systems in that event.
  • JonahManJonahMan Shipmate
    Here is a handy cut-out-and-keep guide to football conversation - usable in all situations. Dialogue courtesy "The IT Crowd"

    "Did you see that ludicrous display last night? The trouble with Arsenal is they always try and walk it in."

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    You may laugh, but...
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    edited January 22
    I remember trying to read Velikovsky - each statement seemed to follow logically from the one before, but when I got three pages in, it was clear that he had got somewhere totally ridiculous.
    I also remember an argument with someone who was trying to be a boyfriend and who was utterly convinced Velikovsky was right. I suggested a number of ways of moving large stones if you happened to be up in the Andes, and he pooh-poohed them all. The thing was, the matter did not carry any moral overtones or political issues, so arguing was safe. (didn't touch politics - he was proud that his mother had converted his father from Liberalism to Conservatism. He had reasons for not liking his Liberal MP which he would not divulge as it was a secret known only to his party - though later very public. He came from Ilfracombe. I still think he was wrong about the conversion, though, so I couldn't try converting him.)
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Rationality as a filter for all discourse is a minority pursuit, but the buses still run. We are simultaneously away with the fairies and very down to earth.
  • Huia wrote: »

    I would have thought a divided opposition would allow the Democrats to tack left as they could win seats with fewer votes, so they could afford to lose a few centrists.

    That's an interesting question. The last election here (NZ) resulted in a landslide for Labour. They attracted votes from National (the more conservative large party), and electorates that had been solidly National for decades were won by Labour. It seems to me that they have responded by moving more towards the centre, rather than further left because they are hoping to keep at least some of those supporters in the long term.

    NZ has a PR system though, which works on very different imperatives to a FPTP system like in the US or UK. It's not hard to conceive of a situation where Democrats get 40% of the vote, with the GOP on 30% and the Trumpers on 30% in (say) Kansas and the Democrats end up stealing a senate seat. That sort of pattern could return Democratic supermajorities in both houses as well as securing the presidency. Now I'll grant that the situation is unlikely to be quite as favourable to the Dems as the right splitting 50-50, but it wouldn't take much to tip the senate comfortably blue. Even a uniform national swing of 5% caused by Trump stealing GOP votes could be decisive.

    Stop the Steal!
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    And, by the way, my reaction to the labour leader bust and the suggestion that it showed where Biden was coming from was "Good!" And "Your tweet shows where you are coming from."
    Oddly, I recall a conversation about a brand of of crisps (chips) of which I had heard that the manufacturers imported American consultants to ensure that no unionisation happened. And the person who retweeted that comment about the labour organiser was shocked, and implied that she would put that brand on her boycott list.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited January 22
    Martin54 says blokes can always talk Football.

    I know he is referring to soccer.

    But can they talk about American Football?

    A horse of a different color.
  • I can talk about both.
  • Martin--
    Martin54 wrote: »
    You see blokes can ALWAYS talk football. It really does pay to have a shrivelled corpus callosum.

    Oh, well, *that's* history explained and sorted, then!
    ;)
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Look, Leicester are 3rd in the Premier League, ahead of Liverpool. Leicester were first a couple of days ago. Liverpool, a long time coming and a rapid decline? Everton are chasing them, I ask you. Man U are back.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    You see blokes can ALWAYS talk football. It really does pay to have a shrivelled corpus callosum.

    My brother can’t. Like me, he’s never watched a football match in his life.

    I have; I was dragged because boy #1's school was given some free tickets. That's two hours of my life I'm owed back. I've never been so bored.

    I can't tell you how glad I am to hear you say that. Every time I say I find football (soccer here in the US) boring, a million people descend upon my head to tell me I'm an ignorant Yanqui and need to shut up and fuck off. God what a dull game.
  • :sleeping:

    As regards Deputy Beelzebub Copeland and his reaction to The Fall Of Trump, there are several videos on YouTube.

    I won't link to any - I merely established that some were present by entering *Kenneth Copeland Trump*, fearing for my sanity (and the safety of my laptop) if I tried watching any of them.
  • Coward! ;-)
  • edited January 22
    Cop out! RTF took one for the team! :smile:
  • O I agree...but I can't stand looking at Copeland's eyes - windows into nothingness...
    :scream:
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Look, Leicester are 3rd in the Premier League, ahead of Liverpool. Leicester were first a couple of days ago. Liverpool, a long time coming and a rapid decline? Everton are chasing them, I ask you. Man U are back.

    Everton, ManU, Liverpool. When did fans of any of these clubs enjoy the thrill of az promotion chase ? I will stick with my little club.
    mousethief wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    You see blokes can ALWAYS talk football. It really does pay to have a shrivelled corpus callosum.

    My brother can’t. Like me, he’s never watched a football match in his life.

    I have; I was dragged because boy #1's school was given some free tickets. That's two hours of my life I'm owed back. I've never been so bored.

    I can't tell you how glad I am to hear you say that. Every time I say I find football (soccer here in the US) boring, a million people descend upon my head to tell me I'm an ignorant Yanqui and need to shut up and fuck off. God what a dull game.

    I guess the problem with proper football and rugby is that the players are able to manage without all that armour

  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    edited January 22
    If there’s a Purgatorial discussion to be had on the various football codes, perhaps it can have its own thread.

    BroJames, Purgatory Host
  • O I agree...but I can't stand looking at Copeland's eyes - windows into nothingness...
    :scream:

    Urrrrggggggggg - that small exploration is going to pollute my feed for ages. I learnt nothing - all the recent ones are standard ‘teaching(!)’ materials, nothing to see here. But the comments - speaking as a lonely Christian in an environment where there are few enough of us - were full of sad, clueless people who leave me feeling even more hopeless about the future of the church. So thanks for the ship, folks.
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Look, Leicester are 3rd in the Premier League, ahead of Liverpool. Leicester were first a couple of days ago. Liverpool, a long time coming and a rapid decline? Everton are chasing them, I ask you. Man U are back.

    do the research?
  • Telford wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Look, Leicester are 3rd in the Premier League, ahead of Liverpool. Leicester were first a couple of days ago. Liverpool, a long time coming and a rapid decline? Everton are chasing them, I ask you. Man U are back.

    Everton, ManU, Liverpool. When did fans of any of these clubs enjoy the thrill of az promotion chase ? I will stick with my little club.
    mousethief wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    You see blokes can ALWAYS talk football. It really does pay to have a shrivelled corpus callosum.

    My brother can’t. Like me, he’s never watched a football match in his life.

    I have; I was dragged because boy #1's school was given some free tickets. That's two hours of my life I'm owed back. I've never been so bored.

    I can't tell you how glad I am to hear you say that. Every time I say I find football (soccer here in the US) boring, a million people descend upon my head to tell me I'm an ignorant Yanqui and need to shut up and fuck off. God what a dull game.

    I guess the problem with proper football and rugby is that the players are able to manage without all that armour

    No the problem is that nothing ever happens.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    edited January 23
    Unless you are all arguing that the disillusioned disciples of you-know-who should drown their sorrows in football, I'd really prefer to read something else.

    I know, I know, if you don't like it, you don't have to read the thread. And so I sha'nt.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Unless you are all arguing that the disillusioned disciples of you-know-who should drown their sorrows in football, I'd really prefer to read something else.

    I know, I know, if you don't like it, you don't have to read the thread. And so I sha'nt.

    Well, the Hosts have directed that the footie debate be moved to another thread. Granted that it can take some time for the light of the stars to reach Earth, but I'd be expecting the talk to banish itself from this venue within good time.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Piers Morgan, a one-time good friend of Trump’s has completely ditched him.

    “In the aftermath of the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol, Morgan stated that Trump was "mentally unfit" to remain as president. He claimed the COVID-19 pandemic and Trump's election loss which followed had "sent him nuts." In response to whether he regretted his support of Trump, Morgan said "No question. I never thought he was capable of this" (Wiki)
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Despite everything, until that post, I had a residue of... respect for Morgan's contrarian ways, his brilliant interviewing. That's all dead past now. Clarke's law, articulated here recently: fascism takes up democracy's slack.
  • Piers who? I liked him in the few moments when he took a large bite out of Craig Kelly, a nutter MP from somewhere north. Queensland I think.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited January 23
    A good, but chilling, article on the subject of future trump (In the Guardian)

    https://tinyurl.com/yymqled3
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    A good, but chilling, article on the subject of future trump (In the Guardian)

    https://tinyurl.com/yymqled3

    Bloody excellent. Fascism never dies. This is a vampire franchise. The highest priority is to fix US objectively flawed democracy, 25th in the index.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    A good, but chilling, article on the subject of future trump (In the Guardian)

    https://tinyurl.com/yymqled3

    Bloody excellent. Fascism never dies. This is a vampire franchise. The highest priority is to fix US objectively flawed democracy, 25th in the index.

    And how do you propose we fix it?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Next time your Nazis come, they'll have a new disguise
    They won't be wearing jackboots, but three-piece suits and ties
    They'll tell you things you'll love to hear, you'll never know they're lies
    There have always been Nazis and Nazis never die

    - The Desert Peach (musical adaptation)
  • It isn't "research" if you're looking at the internet and reading webpages, blogs, Twitter, facebook, Youtube etc. It also isn't "learning".
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    A good, but chilling, article on the subject of future trump (In the Guardian)

    https://tinyurl.com/yymqled3

    Bloody excellent. Fascism never dies. This is a vampire franchise. The highest priority is to fix US objectively flawed democracy, 25th in the index.

    And how do you propose we fix it?

    To start you need many more representatives, at least triple in the House and Senate, and PR as the basis of state electoral college votes.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    A good, but chilling, article on the subject of future trump (In the Guardian)

    https://tinyurl.com/yymqled3

    Bloody excellent. Fascism never dies. This is a vampire franchise. The highest priority is to fix US objectively flawed democracy, 25th in the index.

    And how do you propose we fix it?

    To start you need many more representatives, at least triple in the House and Senate, and PR as the basis of state electoral college votes.

    But the Westminster systems are no more PR than the US Electoral College is, and yet both the UK and Canada appear in the darkest shade of green on that map you posted, showing how democratic the various nations are.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited January 23
    stetson wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    A good, but chilling, article on the subject of future trump (In the Guardian)

    https://tinyurl.com/yymqled3

    Bloody excellent. Fascism never dies. This is a vampire franchise. The highest priority is to fix US objectively flawed democracy, 25th in the index.

    And how do you propose we fix it?

    To start you need many more representatives, at least triple in the House and Senate, and PR as the basis of state electoral college votes.

    But the Westminster systems are no more PR than the US Electoral College is, and yet both the UK and Canada appear in the darkest shade of green on that map you posted, showing how democratic the various nations are.

    The UK is not in the darkest shade. PR for the electoral college would be far more representative of the popular vote. Either that or have one Representative for every 30,000 people. 11,000. And the Senate is even worse. Small rural white states have the same number of judge confirming senators as California.

    That is insane. That is undemocratic. That is a democratic deficit and makes America a third rate, flawed democracy.
  • edited January 23
    O I agree...but I can't stand looking at Copeland's eyes - windows into nothingness...
    :scream:

    Urrrrggggggggg - that small exploration is going to pollute my feed for ages. I learnt nothing - all the recent ones are standard ‘teaching(!)’ materials, nothing to see here. But the comments - speaking as a lonely Christian in an environment where there are few enough of us - were full of sad, clueless people who leave me feeling even more hopeless about the future of the church. So thanks for the ship, folks.

    Going back to Copeland (a disciple of the Trump Christ, and so germane to this thread) I realise I failed to note that most of his recent posts had comments disabled, but those that didn’t turned out in the comments, which are dated, to be re-posts of material submitted a few years ago. Perhaps he’s running repeats while working out which way the wind is blowing.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    All he needs to do is to hold up a mirror to his nether regions to see which way the wind is blowing.
  • All he needs to do is to hold up a mirror to his nether regions to see which way the wind is blowing.

    Heh.
  • O I agree...but I can't stand looking at Copeland's eyes - windows into nothingness...
    :scream:

    Urrrrggggggggg - that small exploration is going to pollute my feed for ages. I learnt nothing - all the recent ones are standard ‘teaching(!)’ materials, nothing to see here. But the comments - speaking as a lonely Christian in an environment where there are few enough of us - were full of sad, clueless people who leave me feeling even more hopeless about the future of the church. So thanks for the ship, folks.

    Going back to Copeland (a disciple of the Trump Christ, and so germane to this thread) I realise I failed to note that most of his recent posts had comments disabled, but those that didn’t turned out in the comments, which are dated, to be re-posts of material submitted a few years ago. Perhaps he’s running repeats while working out which way the wind is blowing.

    I did wonder if he, and other like-minded Fruitloops, were being cautious. Who knows? Mr Biden may be Revealed to them, by the Lard, as the next Messiah...or perhaps not.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    It isn't "research" if you're looking at the internet and reading webpages, blogs, Twitter, facebook, Youtube etc. It also isn't "learning".

    Kind of what I meant.
  • {Pasting in my post from the Marjorie Taylor Greene thread in Purg.}
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Re CNN--

    Anderson Cooper recently interviewed an ex-Q-Anon man. It turned out that he and others believed that AC and others "ate babies"--or at least drank their blood. He no longer believes that, and apologized to AC. The accusations against him were a surprise to AC.

    I haven't watched the video, but here it is (CNN).

    Here's the Independent's article:
    "Former QAnon follower apologises to Anderson Cooper for believing he ate babies. QAnon conspiracies include belief CNN anchor is a ‘robot’".
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Reminds me of the good old days of Freddy Starr Ate My Hamster.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited February 6
    There's a 50s book being widely quoted by Trump-watchers called 'When Prophecy Fails' which looks at what happens to millenarian movements. It's quite findable on the internet.

    It describes the moment when the prophecy doesn't happen as "disconfirmation", and comes to the surprising conclusion that while such "disconfirmations" do lead to some being undeceived, they can and often do actually result in the group becoming more convinced and more proselytising.

    (There's a side argument about whether Christ's death was the biggest disconfirmation of all time and whether the Church offers proof of the above hypothesis).
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