Global Nuclear War

245

Comments

  • DavidDavid Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    It is a Peter Green song but Santana covered it. Very very well.

    Yes, it’s an all-too-short live excerpt on Abraxas, running into Gypsy Queen, and sung by keyboard player Greg Rolie. As you say, very good!
  • Bill_NobleBill_Noble Shipmate
    edited February 7
    undead_rat wrote: »

    That would be a natural disaster, something which can also be referred to as "An act of God." But in Genesis 8:21 YHWH promised that He would never again initiate a major world-wide disaster:
    Never again will I curse the earth because of man, because his heart contrives evil from his infancy. Never again will I strike down every living thing as I have done.

    Therefore, asteroid strikes, comet collisions, volcanic eruptions, etc. are eliminated from the possibility of being the cause of the disaster predicted by OT prophets.
    Only one possible cause remains: man will invent the means to wipe out life on earth.

    Again, this is a plea to irony rather than Scripture.

    The problem with your interpretation of Genesis 8:21 is that you want the phrase “as I have done” to cover all possible natural disasters. However the phrase could just refer to the particular option of flooding.

    We do not know the day or the hour, or the method.

    The Book of Revelations has seven trumpets and seven bowls so clearly He has more options than you seem to insist.
  • Also seven (non aquatic) seals.

  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    It’s the book of Revelation.

    No s.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Look. I share your feelings on nukes. I've been a supporter of Unilateral Nuclear Disarmament since forever.

    It obscures the case surrounding it with dubious interpretations of Scriptures which most people don't accept as authoritative anyway. Your audience is limited first to those who do - some Christians, Jews and Muslims. It's further limited to that subset of those subsets of those faith communities who find your interpretations compelling, which from what we've seen on here is virtually no-one.

    Why not oppose nukes on the perfectly reasonable grounds that they're indiscriminate weapons of mass destruction whose use would be mass murder at best and genocidal ecological annihilation at worst?
  • If we ban nuclear weapons, then we void the prophesies. So, there's a dilemma here...
  • Boogie wrote: »
    It’s the book of Revelation.

    No s.

    D’oh! I only needed 11 in that last sentence and like a prawn, I typed 12.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    <Carlos Santana>

    Got a black Magic Marker

    </Carlos Santana>

    You sod. LOL. I mean LOL!
  • Doc Tor wrote: »
    If we ban nuclear weapons, then we void the prophesies. So, there's a dilemma here...

    Well, it's not our dilemma. After Jonah prophesied to Nineveh, he sat on an overlooking hill to see what would happen. But the people of Nineveh had repented, and so YHWH canceled His plans to destroy that city. Jonah was upset, but YHWH told him that it was wrong to feel that way.
  • And used that poor little gourd plant to stir Jonah's empathy.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    And used that poor little gourd plant to stir Jonah's empathy.

    And it didn't work. Or at least, Jonah didn't make the transfer of empathy from the plant to the people like God was wanting him to.
  • I feel this thread has gone on long enough without 40 year old satire (Not the 9 o'clock news):https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o3rnC712MEw
  • Our Lady of Akita:
    " .. .the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never have seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity...the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Akita
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited February 9
    If the Bible says that there is to be a nuclear war, then we as Christians are duty bound to make it happen. Is that how it works, undead rat? Like making Israel the state fulfil the prophecy some read into the Bible about the end of days?
  • Rather than type this passage out again, I hereby quote myself in answer to your question.

    undead_rat wrote: »
    Psalm 9:15-16
    The nations have sunk into a pit of their own making,
    they are caught by the feet in the snare they set themselves.
    YHWH has made Himself known, has given judgment,
    He has trapped the wicked in the work of their own hands.

  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    If the Bible says that there is to be a nuclear war, then we as Christians are duty bound to make it happen. Is that how it works, undead rat? Like making Israel the state fulfil the prophecy some read into the Bible about the end of days?

    Like an extreme version of the guy who took a roan/red cow to Jerusalem to fulfill a prophecy. (Others, too, have done it since.) Trying to force God to jump-start the end times. Unwise, and very arrogant.
  • undead_rat wrote: »
    Our Lady of Akita:
    " .. .the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never have seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity...the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Akita
    And, how is this relevant to the original premise (that the Hebrew Scriptures predict a nuclear catastrophe)?

    If we accept that Sasagawa-san received a genuine message from the Lord via a series of visions of Mary, then these are messages for the mid 1970s rather than messages for the Jewish people more than 2500 years ago. There is a strong theme within the Prophets along the lines of "repent of your sins or the [insert nation that's currently stomping other nations in the region] will defeat you" or "because you didn't turn from your sins the [insert nation ...] defeated you, return to the Lord and your prosperity will be restored". Mid 1970s, and the threat of nuclear war was very real - a decade before and the world had come to the brink of nuclear war over Cuba, a proxy war against Chinese Communism was being fought in Vietnam. It's consistent with prophetic utterances to phrase the warnings in the context of the threats of the day. Today I'd expect to hear such prophecies to be in terms of environmental destruction or global pandemic.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited February 9
    Yup.

    Sticks and carrots.

    I Googled “what did Jesus use, sticks or carrots?”

    Near the top of the list -

    “ The answer is fairly straightforward - both blessings and curses are law! In fact they are the quintessence of law.

    Law is: "If you... Then He'll..."

    Gospel is "Since He... You are..."

    Notice therefore that "If you... Then He'll..." is a message that could include curses or blessings. If you obey then He'll bless you. If you disobey, then He'll curse you. Whether the carrot is being dangled or the stick is being threatened the real issue is the phrase "If you...". What makes these messages law is not the curses or the carrots, it's the conditionality.”

    Food for thought.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    undead_rat wrote: »
    Rather than type this passage out again, I hereby quote myself in answer to your question.

    undead_rat wrote: »
    Psalm 9:15-16
    The nations have sunk into a pit of their own making,
    they are caught by the feet in the snare they set themselves.
    YHWH has made Himself known, has given judgment,
    He has trapped the wicked in the work of their own hands.

    Wow! You are the Psalmist?!
  • undead_rat wrote: »
    Rather than type this passage out again, I hereby quote myself in answer to your question.

    undead_rat wrote: »
    Psalm 9:15-16
    The nations have sunk into a pit of their own making,
    they are caught by the feet in the snare they set themselves.
    YHWH has made Himself known, has given judgment,
    He has trapped the wicked in the work of their own hands.

    Sorry old mate. Bit thick here. Please spell out exactly what you mean.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    If the Bible says that there is to be a nuclear war, then we as Christians are duty bound to make it happen. Is that how it works, undead rat? Like making Israel the state fulfil the prophecy some read into the Bible about the end of days?

    I wrote a series of linked short stories positing exactly that. Obviously, the people concerned were all heretics, but there is still the glimmer of recognition in that urge, 'How long, o Lord?'
  • DavidDavid Shipmate
    Will the only survivors of global nuclear war be undead rats? Asking for a friend.
  • No, it'll be Cockroaches, AIUI.

    Much the same as regards usefulness...
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    David wrote: »
    Will the only survivors of global nuclear war be undead rats? Asking for a friend.

    Ask the Death of Rats https://discworld.fandom.com/wiki/Death_of_Rats

  • EEK!
    :wink:

    (Let the reader understand).

    Back to GNW - I seem to recall Ken Livingstone, when he was Leader of the GLC, remarking that if London was nuked, he'd prefer to simply stand in the street, and wait for annihilation.

    His point was, of course, that what was left of the world (if anything) would be so awful as to be not worth bothering about.
  • Martin54 wrote: »

    Wow! You are a Palmist?!

    Only about once a week now (in my old age . .. )
  • If you deliberately altered that post, and if I have correctly interpreted the reason, then you are indeed a Tosser...

  • Not familiar with the UK slang. I deny criminal activity.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited February 9
    :disappointed:
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    undead_rat wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »

    Wow! You are a Palmist?!

    Only about once a week now (in my old age . .. )

    I did not write that.
  • I know that, undead_rat knows that, and so (I guess) do Those Who Keep Watch...
  • I don't know anything according to the admins and posters at SOFF.
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    The sad thing is the implication that no-one anywhere else has had the guts to tell you this before.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Quite.
  • To the contrary, I have been told many times.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    undead_rat wrote: »
    To the contrary, I have been told many times.

    There comes a point where you have to consider whether the critics might have a point.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited February 10
    undead_rat wrote: »
    I don't know anything according to the admins and posters at SOFF.

    You knew what I wrote and you edited it and quoted your edit as my original. Typical of your disordered thinking.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    undead_rat wrote: »
    I don't know anything according to the admins and posters at SOFF.

    You knew what I wrote and you edited it and quoted your edit as my original. Typical of your disordered thinking.

    And bugger me, when Martin calls your thinking disordered...
  • It's one of the signs of the apocalypse. I'm sure we can find a scripture verse we can retrospectively shoe-horn into use.
  • Désordonné moi?
  • Messy, you? Maybe, now and then...
    :wink:

    It may just be a sort of backhanded compliment (YMMV) if someone like undead_rat edits a post, and then quotes the edited version as if it were the original.

    IYSWIM.
  • I have a NYT article from March, 2019, which is titled:
    The Islamic State Is Not Defeated.
    Here are some quotes:
    "More than 40,000 foreigners traveled to the territory of the Islamic State, and most are missing.
    "The Islamic State is like herpes: It can be managed but never cured. . . .
    It will break out again."

    When ISIS's capital, Raqqa, was captured, its thousands of ISIS soldiers were not made to surrender. Instead they drove off in convoy to places unknown. If substantial numbers have entered Europe, they could present a great danger to the Catholic hierarchy. ISIS has made threats against the Vatican, saying that Muslims will be praying there instead of Christians.
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    edited February 11
    undead_rat wrote: »
    I have a NYT article from March, 2019
    What, as a newspaper clipping on your wall of crazy?
  • Why do you abuse Scripture, @undead_rat Scripture is very important to me and a great many others. It should be handled with care and respect.
  • Well, if Islamic terrorists were to attack the Vatican, it would probably still be about the Crusades. Deep wound back then to Muslims, non-Catholic Christians, and anyone else in the area. Not sure how much it's ever healed.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Well, if Islamic terrorists were to attack the Vatican, it would probably still be about the Crusades. Deep wound back then to Muslims, non-Catholic Christians, and anyone else in the area. Not sure how much it's ever healed.

    Aye. We ate them.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited February 11
    undead_rat wrote: »
    I have a NYT article from March, 2019, which is titled:
    The Islamic State Is Not Defeated.
    Here are some quotes:
    "More than 40,000 foreigners traveled to the territory of the Islamic State, and most are missing.
    "The Islamic State is like herpes: It can be managed but never cured. . . .
    It will break out again."

    When ISIS's capital, Raqqa, was captured, its thousands of ISIS soldiers were not made to surrender. Instead they drove off in convoy to places unknown. If substantial numbers have entered Europe, they could present a great danger to the Catholic hierarchy. ISIS has made threats against the Vatican, saying that Muslims will be praying there instead of Christians.

    Uh huh. It's unstoppable then. Carry on. How does it precipitate Global Nuclear War™?
  • Martin--
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Well, if Islamic terrorists were to attack the Vatican, it would probably still be about the Crusades. Deep wound back then to Muslims, non-Catholic Christians, and anyone else in the area. Not sure how much it's ever healed.

    Aye. We ate them.

    Not literally, I hope?
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    undead_rat wrote: »
    To the contrary, I have been told many times.

    Well then, having got the message again here, it must be time to pack up your travelling show and look for another new audience of ingrates.
  • No, no - we need something (or someone) wacky to help us through the Dire Days of Lockdown...
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