Advice for Immigrants

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Comments

  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    In the circles I move in the etiquette is roughly that if you are going to the bar to buy yourself a drink you offer to buy for anyone in your group who is present and who doesn't currently have a drink. There is also no obligation to buy more drinks than you can carry back at once.
    If someone buys a drink for you there's no obligation to reciprocate on that occasion if you don't want another drink yourself.
    However, you want to make sure you buy your share on another occasion.

    Other social circles may have more formal expectations.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    And who in the world can afford to buy a round for several people (or more) on a regular basis?

    When I've heard this about the UK, it's generally sounded like maybe it's among working-class folk. (Don't know the class terms over there.) But working-class Americans aren't likely to be able to buy a round for their friends (or more) on a regular basis.

    When I used to go to bars with friends, at least two or three people would buy pitchers for the table. Ten or twelve dollars for a pitcher of Bud wasn't too bad.

    Don't judge me. :wink:
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    Courtesy/etiquette norms are a good thing to know for people immigating, as they can vary considerably from country to country, and within the same country.

    I remember how much offence I caused as a student in Ireland when I paid for my own drink and did not buy rounds.

    :open_mouth: Actually, you can do that in Australia these days but you have to be explicit about it. I forget the term for it.

    One shouts a round of drinks. If out with a group in a pub it is considered both rude and mean not to do so.

    Hence the expression” wouldn’t shout if a shark bit him”

  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    How big are these groups, and does everybody buy a round? It sounds like each person in a group of N friends is going to end up paying for and drinking N beers. But what if you don’t want to pay or drink that much?
  • Usually 10-12 in my experience.

    Trouble is one can end up with 10-12 drinks under the belt which is a bloody lot.

    Not everyone shouts ( I recall a couple of SDA fellow-students who used to come & stuck to orange juice and this was respected).

    But bad manners to accept a few shouts and not reciprocate.

    If you can’t stand the heat, stay out if the kitchen.

    My limit was 4 drinks so rarely went and shouted at least once.

    Much easier when there with family or a couple of friends.
  • I'm going to sound like a bloody innocent, but ...

    how in the hell do people put away a six-pack or more and not spend the entire evening in the toilet?
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    And who in the world can afford to buy a round for several people (or more) on a regular basis?

    When I've heard this about the UK, it's generally sounded like maybe it's among working-class folk. (Don't know the class terms over there.) But working-class Americans aren't likely to be able to buy a round for their friends (or more) on a regular basis.

    If you're intending to have 4 beers, and go in with a group of 4, you buy a round and in turn others will buy beers 2, 3 and 4. You'd say later that you got into a shout of 4, or a round of 4. The rule is to make sure you don't get into a shout larger than you intend to drink (if that makes sense).
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited February 18
    I'm struggling to remember what we did at University. I think if you are in a large group you split into smaller shouts, but it is very informal. I remember once when I was quite young trying to shout Bay 13 at the G and everyone laughing at me. I was lucky not to go home in the back of a Divvy van that day.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I'm going to sound like a bloody innocent, but ...

    how in the hell do people put away a six-pack or more and not spend the entire evening in the toilet?

    Once you've "broken the seal" (usually somewhere around the second pint) bog visits become rather frequent.
  • Pints aren’t commonly drunk in Oz. A schooner is about 375 ml ( 2/3 of a pint) and a middy about 285 ml. Beer is drunk cold which seems to help counteract the urge to void every 15 minutes.

    Or maybe better bladder training...
  • RicardusRicardus Shipmate
    edited February 18
    Dave W wrote: »
    How big are these groups, and does everybody buy a round? It sounds like each person in a group of N friends is going to end up paying for and drinking N beers. But what if you don’t want to pay or drink that much?

    IME, N can be carried over from one session to the next, i.e., if there's a group you regularly go drinking with, and the size of the round is greater than the number of drinks everyone wants on any given night, then each individual wouldn't necessarily buy a round on each given night, but if you got a 'free' night you would pay it back next time.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    And who in the world can afford to buy a round for several people (or more) on a regular basis?

    When I've heard this about the UK, it's generally sounded like maybe it's among working-class folk. (Don't know the class terms over there.) But working-class Americans aren't likely to be able to buy a round for their friends (or more) on a regular basis.

    I'm sure in the dim & distant past (ie the days when £5 would buy 2-3 drinks) I remember an alternative in big groups was everyone bungs fiver in the kitty (usually an empty pint glass from the bar) and the kitty would be drained & replenished until we'd all had enough.
  • In the days when my choir members were younger we used to repair to the pub after our evening rehearsal, roughly 12-15 of us. In the early days it was a good method of blending in new members. Most times I'd buy the first round, after that it was up to them: some bought just for themselves, others a round or shared a round.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    When I've heard this about the UK, it's generally sounded like maybe it's among working-class folk. (Don't know the class terms over there.) But working-class Americans aren't likely to be able to buy a round for their friends (or more) on a regular basis.

    You buy for the people you're drinking with. If you're a group of 6, and have 6 pints in an evening, then everyone buys 6 pints. That's the same as if each person bought their own beer. The downside of rounds is that it encourages people to "keep up" and drink more than they should / wanted to, in order to stay in the round / get their money's worth / etc.
  • When I drank with the same four or five people, we agreed early on that I'd buy every 8th or 10th round because I drank halves (of bitter) to their pints, rather than every 4th or 5th round. But it was the same group of us. It wouldn't mean we drank multiples of 4 or 5 rounds in a night, we might just have one round, and whoever's turn it was bought. It saves everyone going up to the bar each time.

    It's not unusual for people to say they'll buy their own. I often do to avoid getting into rounds (when I'm then going to drink a non-alcoholic option or half a bitter). It also saves the argument that you really don't want to drink alcohol, thank you so much.
  • tclunetclune Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    When I've heard this about the UK, it's generally sounded like maybe it's among working-class folk. (Don't know the class terms over there.) But working-class Americans aren't likely to be able to buy a round for their friends (or more) on a regular basis.

    You buy for the people you're drinking with. If you're a group of 6, and have 6 pints in an evening, then everyone buys 6 pints. That's the same as if each person bought their own beer. The downside of rounds is that it encourages people to "keep up" and drink more than they should / wanted to, in order to stay in the round / get their money's worth / etc.

    That kind of thing may work in your country or with college kids. My limit is one pint, so I guess I'd need to drink alone.
  • tclune wrote: »
    That kind of thing may work in your country or with college kids. My limit is one pint, so I guess I'd need to drink alone.

    Well, as @Curiosity killed mentioned, it's also common to share this out over multiple evenings (you each have 2 pints one night, one the next, and different people buy). If you do this regularly with the same group, it quickly becomes obvious who isn't taking their turn.
  • Wow! The cultural difference is striking! Around here, there has been enough of a movement away from a drinking culture (at least in some circles) that I can't even begin to wrap my head around the notion of buying rounds for everyone.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    tclune wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    When I've heard this about the UK, it's generally sounded like maybe it's among working-class folk. (Don't know the class terms over there.) But working-class Americans aren't likely to be able to buy a round for their friends (or more) on a regular basis.

    You buy for the people you're drinking with. If you're a group of 6, and have 6 pints in an evening, then everyone buys 6 pints. That's the same as if each person bought their own beer. The downside of rounds is that it encourages people to "keep up" and drink more than they should / wanted to, in order to stay in the round / get their money's worth / etc.

    That kind of thing may work in your country or with college kids. My limit is one pint, so I guess I'd need to drink alone.

    Wow. One pint is one drink here. Most people would have two or three minimum on a night at the pub and some people considerably more.
  • But there actually are people who have a limit of one drink in an evening, often for physical reasons. Beer gets up my nose if I don't drink it extremely slowly, and it makes me pee all night, too. So I'm not going to put away three drinks that way. (This is why I admire the bladder capacity of the people described in these posts. I could never do it. I'd end by spending every other 15 min in the toilets.)
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Your beer is too fizzy ;)

    Yeah, plenty of people here only drink one or two but they're generally not part of the round culture.
  • Curiosity killedCuriosity killed Shipmate
    edited February 18
    Talking to my daughter, rounds were heavily discouraged when she was at university in the last decade as they were trying to put a stop to the competitive drinking culture. There have been some well-publicised deaths from alcohol poisoning following some drinking club initiations - this guy's father has been campaigning to stop this excessive alcohol consumption.

    In my day, we tended to stick to beer, rarely spirits as too expensive.

    Fixed broken link. BroJames, Purgatory Host
  • The idea of buying in rounds is so ingrained that it had to be banned during the First World War, so it has a long heritage
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Your beer is too fizzy ;)

    Yeah, plenty of people here only drink one or two but they're generally not part of the round culture.

    I think that's the point. If I nip down to the pub for a swift pint, it's unlikely that a bunch of acquaintances will grab me and insist that I buy a round. Groups who are off to buy rounds self-identify, surely.
  • Transactionally, rounds are more efficient - it's more efficient for one person to go to the bar and get four drinks than for four people to go up to the bar and get a drink each. I've spent quite some time in pubs and bars around the world with senior and junior colleagues, and there's always been an unwritten rule in those groups that the senior people get the first drinks in. This has held true whether "get the first drinks in" means buying the first couple of rounds, buying bottles of wine for the table, or whatever, depending on context.

    My experience at university (a fair time before @Curiosity killed's kitten) was that most of the hardcore problematic drinking happened in private rather than in pubs. This isn't to say that there wasn't excessive drinking in pubs, but that the worst of it was in student rooms (because a bottle of supermarket vodka is much cheaper than drinking in pubs).

    This was so much an expectation, that when the guy down the corridor from me moved all his furniture into his neighbour's room, so that he could line his own room with taped-down plastic sheets to contain the vomit when he offered it up as a party venue, noboy thought it particularly unusual.
  • I think that's the point. If I nip down to the pub for a swift pint, it's unlikely that a bunch of acquaintances will grab me and insist that I buy a round. Groups who are off to buy rounds self-identify, surely.

    Or you nip down the pub for a quick pint, discover three acquaintances already in the pub, buy them a drink as a matter of course as you sit down to chat to them, and before you know it, you're four pints in to your "quick pint".
  • I think that's the point. If I nip down to the pub for a swift pint, it's unlikely that a bunch of acquaintances will grab me and insist that I buy a round. Groups who are off to buy rounds self-identify, surely.

    Or you nip down the pub for a quick pint, discover three acquaintances already in the pub, buy them a drink as a matter of course as you sit down to chat to them, and before you know it, you're four pints in to your "quick pint".

    I'm not sure why I buy them drinks, "as a matter of course". I'm not that stupid.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited February 18
    Course we don’t all drink in pints, I have worked in female majority health teams most of my working life. Typically, on a night out, you’d either buy your own or people would stick money in a shared kitty for drinks - often wine or low complexity cocktails (e.g. gin & tonic)

    Alternatively at works meal out, shared buying of bottles of wine for the table for those who wanted wine whereas everyone else buying their own.

    (This did not stop some people staying on and getting falling down drunk, but I rarely stayed for that.)
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    Transactionally, rounds are more efficient - it's more efficient for one person to go to the bar and get four drinks than for four people to go up to the bar and get a drink each.
    That's basically how it works in my circles. I wouldn't drink more than one or two drinks in an evening. Basically you're saving everyone else a trip to the bar, and you're assuming that in the long run the money will all even out.

  • For me, it all depends on who I am with. Close friends or family - I will happily buy a round. "Just mates" - I would normally assume that we would buy our own drinks.
  • I once could have gone in a pub and known most of the people there. Chances of me buying them all a drink, zero.
  • I remember when my Kenyan friend came to the United States to study. As he was setting up his room in the dorm, he decided he wanted salt. He went to the local A&P to the aisle that had salt, but he said he never saw so many types of salt: celery salt; onion salt--about 28 different flavors of salt. He decided he would forgo getting salt, but get sugar for his tea. When he got to the sugar aisle, it was just as confusing: Cane Sugar, Brown Sugar, Powdered Sugar, etc. He ended up getting powdered sugar. I went back with him to get what he wanted. He was in the US for three years and every day he was amazed at the variety of everything we had--though he thought we were a little short on the variety of yams.
  • Talking to my daughter, rounds were heavily discouraged when she was at university in the last decade as they were trying to put a stop to the competitive drinking culture.

    My observation is that many young people drink less anyway, whether that be because of the above, a cultural change or because of the cost of drinking.

  • Lyda wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    Courtesy/etiquette norms are a good thing to know for people immigating, as they can vary considerably from country to country, and within the same country.

    I remember how much offence I caused as a student in Ireland when I paid for my own drink and did not buy rounds.

    I've wondered, who all would you be buying rounds for? The group you came in with, the friends you made while in the bar, or the whole bar?

    Generally the group you came in with; though if you moved on to drinking with another group of folk you might be in a round with them instead.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    I remember when my Kenyan friend came to the United States to study. As he was setting up his room in the dorm, he decided he wanted salt. He went to the local A&P to the aisle that had salt, but he said he never saw so many types of salt: celery salt; onion salt--about 28 different flavors of salt. He decided he would forgo getting salt, but get sugar for his tea. When he got to the sugar aisle, it was just as confusing: Cane Sugar, Brown Sugar, Powdered Sugar, etc. He ended up getting powdered sugar. I went back with him to get what he wanted. He was in the US for three years and every day he was amazed at the variety of everything we had--though he thought we were a little short on the variety of yams.

    :lol:
  • Lyda wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    Courtesy/etiquette norms are a good thing to know for people immigating, as they can vary considerably from country to country, and within the same country.

    I remember how much offence I caused as a student in Ireland when I paid for my own drink and did not buy rounds.

    I've wondered, who all would you be buying rounds for? The group you came in with, the friends you made while in the bar, or the whole bar?

    Generally the group you came in with; though if you moved on to drinking with another group of folk you might be in a round with them instead.

    My experience is that you're sitting around with a group of people, someone downs the remainder of their drink and says some variation on "who wants another one?", and those present who would like another drink respond with some mumble of gratitude, perhaps indicating what they're drinking. If you haven't bought your round in a while, this is your chance to stand up and say "no, I'll get these in", and go to the bar yourself. If you're not drinking as fast as some of those present, it's acceptable to miss yourself out of your round; it's not acceptable, whether accidentally or deliberately, to continually miss out on getting your round in by being a slow drinker.
  • Talking to my daughter, rounds were heavily discouraged when she was at university in the last decade as they were trying to put a stop to the competitive drinking culture.

    My observation is that many young people drink less anyway, whether that be because of the above, a cultural change or because of the cost of drinking.

    It depends on the age of the younger people. Alcohol consumption in the UK has varied immensely. I dug for some statistics, in 1975 90% of beer was drunk in pubs. By 1992 far more alcohol was drunk in the home. The Government relaxed licensing laws in 2003 and we hit peak alcohol consumption in 2002. So it depends where on that curve you are.

    I was at university some time before 1992 and we mostly drank beer in pubs, pub wine wasn't great (horrid little tins if you were lucky) and not a lot of choice of soft drinks. Beer cost 37p a pint in the union bar, when I first started uni. It didn't stay that cheap for long.

    The younger crew at work were the sort of age where their university years hit peak consumption, and they drank far more than I do. The current cohort, if they drink at all and multiculturalism an other reasons mean that not everyone does, start drinking with supermarket cheap alcohol before going out to save money on pub or bar prices.
  • There is some evidence of young people in the UK drinking less alcohol - stats from 2011
    “ In 2001, 26% of 11 to 15-year-olds in England and Wales said they had drunk alcohol in the previous week - that had declined to 12% by 2011” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine-25657004
    My 20 year old seldom ever drinks, he might have a small glass of wine if invited to over dinner but usually has soft drinks in pubs.
  • Dave W wrote: »
    Lyda wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    Courtesy/etiquette norms are a good thing to know for people immigating, as they can vary considerably from country to country, and within the same country.

    I remember how much offence I caused as a student in Ireland when I paid for my own drink and did not buy rounds.

    I've wondered, who all would you be buying rounds for? The group you came in with, the friends you made while in the bar, or the whole bar?
    I was wondering the same thing. Depending on the scope of the obligation, it sounds like you could end up paying for a lot more than you drink or drinking a lot more than you want.

    A minimum of 4 or 5, but it could be up to 8 or 9. Even if it were just 3 of us, the pints would just start piling up in front of me-- I might manage one over the evening, but this would leave several untouched, to the perplexity of my friends. But it would often mean a half-dozen which, in the halcyon days of 16p per pint of stout, would be a pound, which would be my food budget for the day.

    A quiet statement that I didn't do rounds would be regarded much as if I had asked why there were not more women on the All Ireland football team. Reality challenged! and not in a good way.

    With that and the high level of smoke (can there be anything fouler than 30 people chain-smoking Silk Cut?), I soon realized that I needed to cut myself out of pub life in Dublin. Of all cities in the world!
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