The news that Jesus is NOT the son of God

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Comments

  • KarlLB wrote: »
    If we don't believe in God , we don't believe in love.

    I can absolutely tell you that you are as wrong as a wrong thing there. I know some incredibly loving atheists. And I know my own ability to love, weak or strong as it may be, is unconnected to my belief in God, strong or weak as that may be.

    Agree 200%. Indeed if I compare the atheists I know with the Godbotherers who voted for Trump . . . . . .
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    If we don't believe in God , we don't believe in love.

    I can absolutely tell you that you are as wrong as a wrong thing there. I know some incredibly loving atheists. And I know my own ability to love, weak or strong as it may be, is unconnected to my belief in God, strong or weak as that may be.

    So do I know loving atheists. My wife is a loving agnostic too.
    But the source of that love? Where does it come from? The essence comes from a higher power, God. A God we don't understand yet. Divine intelligence.

    That may be so, but it doesn't mean that as you stated, if we don't believe in God we don't believe in love.

    Now if you'd said "if we don't believe in love we don't believe in God" I think you'd have had a point.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    If we don't believe in God , we don't believe in love.

    I can absolutely tell you that you are as wrong as a wrong thing there. I know some incredibly loving atheists. And I know my own ability to love, weak or strong as it may be, is unconnected to my belief in God, strong or weak as that may be.

    So do I know loving atheists. My wife is a loving agnostic too.
    But the source of that love? Where does it come from? The essence comes from a higher power, God. A God we don't understand yet. Divine intelligence.

    That may be so, but it doesn't mean that as you stated, if we don't believe in God we don't believe in love.

    Now if you'd said "if we don't believe in love we don't believe in God" I think you'd have had a point.

    We see God and love as the same. They are synonymous.
    So for me , if you say you don't believe in God, it means you don't believe in love.
    Sorry if that sounds presumptuous.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    So a lot members are psuedo intellectuals with overblown egos? Tell me I'm wrong.
    I couldn't do that.

  • mousethief wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    If we don't believe in God , we don't believe in love.

    I can absolutely tell you that you are as wrong as a wrong thing there. I know some incredibly loving atheists. And I know my own ability to love, weak or strong as it may be, is unconnected to my belief in God, strong or weak as that may be.

    Agree 200%. Indeed if I compare the atheists I know with the Godbotherers who voted for Trump . . . . . .

    Easy to see where your biases lie now. Not that I like Trump either.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited February 19
    KarlLB wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    If we don't believe in God , we don't believe in love.

    I can absolutely tell you that you are as wrong as a wrong thing there. I know some incredibly loving atheists. And I know my own ability to love, weak or strong as it may be, is unconnected to my belief in God, strong or weak as that may be.

    So do I know loving atheists. My wife is a loving agnostic too.
    But the source of that love? Where does it come from? The essence comes from a higher power, God. A God we don't understand yet. Divine intelligence.

    That may be so, but it doesn't mean that as you stated, if we don't believe in God we don't believe in love.

    Now if you'd said "if we don't believe in love we don't believe in God" I think you'd have had a point.

    We see God and love as the same. They are synonymous.
    So for me , if you say you don't believe in God, it means you don't believe in love.
    Sorry if that sounds presumptuous.

    Except one can observe people who don't believe in God but clearly do believe in love. So the proposition fails.

    It isn't that it sounds presumptuous. It's that there are observations that show it to be demonstrably wrong.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    If we don't believe in God , we don't believe in love.

    I can absolutely tell you that you are as wrong as a wrong thing there. I know some incredibly loving atheists. And I know my own ability to love, weak or strong as it may be, is unconnected to my belief in God, strong or weak as that may be.

    So do I know loving atheists. My wife is a loving agnostic too.
    But the source of that love? Where does it come from? The essence comes from a higher power, God. A God we don't understand yet. Divine intelligence.

    That may be so, but it doesn't mean that as you stated, if we don't believe in God we don't believe in love.

    Now if you'd said "if we don't believe in love we don't believe in God" I think you'd have had a point.

    We see God and love as the same. They are synonymous.
    So for me , if you say you don't believe in God, it means you don't believe in love.
    Sorry if that sounds presumptuous.
    KarlLB wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    If we don't believe in God , we don't believe in love.

    I can absolutely tell you that you are as wrong as a wrong thing there. I know some incredibly loving atheists. And I know my own ability to love, weak or strong as it may be, is unconnected to my belief in God, strong or weak as that may be.

    So do I know loving atheists. My wife is a loving agnostic too.
    But the source of that love? Where does it come from? The essence comes from a higher power, God. A God we don't understand yet. Divine intelligence.

    That may be so, but it doesn't mean that as you stated, if we don't believe in God we don't believe in love.

    Now if you'd said "if we don't believe in love we don't believe in God" I think you'd have had a point.

    We see God and love as the same. They are synonymous.
    So for me , if you say you don't believe in God, it means you don't believe in love.
    Sorry if that sounds presumptuous.

    Except one can observe people who don't believe in God but clearly do believe in love. So the proposition fails.

    And the non loving Christians which are a real blight on Christianity.
    Life is full of paradoxes. But Christianity embraces a lot of those paradoxes.
    I think God allows these contradictions to occur to stop us from getting too proud of ourselves.
    Divine intelligence wins in the end.
  • How would you react to that? I think I would be sick to the stomach if the news were true.
    I've got all my money on it. I'm going for broke. If he isn't I feel life is meaningless. Guys like Trump suddenly have credibility. (Apparently he thinks only losers get crucified)
    All of us who struggle in this life, who feel closer to losers than winners, will be heart broken. Jesus represents the short guy in this life. The one who doesn't quite cut the mustard.
    To lose the Christian message, is to lose everything.

    Just take the bet. You'll never know. Meanwhile try and do something worthwhile, selfless. It's bloody hard I know, even to find something time consuming and then to actually have to do it! Bugger me. It COSTS!!!!!
  • On reflection, I think my opening post was not up to scratch. I could have left out the a Trump joke. Maybe I was trying to embrace the spirit of the forum at the same time.
    So I am prepared to apologize to those earlier posters.
    I needed to flesh out my fears of Jesus not being the Son of God.
    Maybe I went off the rails. Maybe I'm crazy after all. I wouldn't be alone on that score.
    I'm feeling disoriented recently with fears in my personal life such as potential job loss. Which would shatter maybe more than Jesus not existing.
    Ok sorry, I can be a humourless guy on occasions..
  • Ray SunshineRay Sunshine Shipmate
    edited February 20
    So, as a suggestion, here's how I frame the hypothetical:
    Suppose a 1st century tomb in Palestine that had lay underdisturbed for two millennia was found. In it was the body of a crucifixion victim aged about 30 when he died. By some DNA, or other means (and this is the problematic bit) it was shown that this was the body of Jesus of Nazareth.
    What then?


    For me and many (though not all) Christians that would be the end of my Christian Faith. A belief in physical resurrection is the cornerstone for me.
    Did you see a film called The Body? The starting point of the storyline is pretty much what you have described here. It's quite a good film, on the whole.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0201485/

  • KarlLB wrote: »
    If we don't believe in God , we don't believe in love.

    I can absolutely tell you that you are as wrong as a wrong thing there. I know some incredibly loving atheists. And I know my own ability to love, weak or strong as it may be, is unconnected to my belief in God, strong or weak as that may be.

    So do I know loving atheists. My wife is a loving agnostic too.
    But the source of that love? Where does it come from? The essence comes from a higher power, God. A God we don't understand yet. Divine intelligence.

    What's it got to do with Him? Apart from grounding being, incarnating and being ineffable?
  • Insanely humble--

    Welcome* to the boards. Ummm...{whispers} This really isn't a good way to start out here. I see that you're new here. You might try lurking on threads for a while (i.e., reading without posting (yet) and learning the Ship's culture and mysterious ways).

    It can take a while to adapt and to learn your way around. But if you try to skip that and continue the way you have on this thread, I suspect it will all end in tears.

    *Tentatively. ;)
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Insanely humble--

    Welcome* to the boards. Ummm...{whispers} This really isn't a good way to start out here. I see that you're new here. You might try lurking on threads for a while (i.e., reading without posting (yet) and learning the Ship's culture and mysterious ways).

    It can take a while to adapt and to learn your way around. But if you try to skip that and continue the way you have on this thread, I suspect it will all end in tears.

    *Tentatively. ;)

    Your tears you mean
  • I can't help being reminded of this beauty, by RooK:
    Ah, the web of (internet) life is not always pretty. Especially when you watch a foolish buzzing bundle of terminal earnestness fling itself bodily into a loathsome glob of 99% pure trollite.

    I hope I'm wrong.
  • I can't help being reminded of this beauty, by RooK:
    Ah, the web of (internet) life is not always pretty. Especially when you watch a foolish buzzing bundle of terminal earnestness fling itself bodily into a loathsome glob of 99% pure trollite.

    I hope I'm wrong.

    Not only wrong but fond of ugly language it seems. Get some purity would be my advice. Have your soul serviced. Clean up your act. It needs cleaning.
  • Shame though. There are a few decent people here. There is hope for them of course.
  • I love it when trolls complain about being trolled. It's like "hey I'm the comedian here. You aren't allowed to be funny"
  • If you think Lamb Chopped is a troll you are very foolish indeed.
  • OOoooohh! ooooohhhh! Stabbed to the fucking heart. {swoons}

    And this is the second newbie in a month to take exception to my pottymouth, which was not even on display in this thread. Two of them!

    Or... are there?
  • mousethief wrote: »
    If you think Lamb Chopped is a troll you are very foolish indeed.

    So I had better be afraid of posters like you eh. ??
    Tremble tremble...
    I've seen it all on twitter
    You can't shock me..
  • OOoooohh! ooooohhhh! Stabbed to the fucking heart. {swoons}

    And this is the second newbie in a month to take exception to my pottymouth, which was not even on display in this thread. Two of them!

    Or... are there?

    I recognise you from Twitter.
    Hi...
  • Well, that's a neat trick, as I'm not ON Twitter...
  • OOoooohh! ooooohhhh! Stabbed to the fucking heart. {swoons}

    And this is the second newbie in a month to take exception to my pottymouth, which was not even on display in this thread. Two of them!

    Or... are there?

    I recognise you from Twitter.
    Hi...

    I don't need a potty mouth to outwit twits.
  • Then I suggest you go and find some.
  • Well, that's a neat trick, as I'm not ON Twitter...

    Show me the evidence. I can't believe because I am a part time atheist
  • Proving a negative, now? Get thee back to Intro to Logic class.
  • Well, it's been (sur)real, but I've got to go write a sermon. Toodles.
  • Well, it's been (sur)real, but I've got to go write a sermon. Toodles.

    There you go. And I accused you of being unholy.
    Unholier than thou.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    If you think Lamb Chopped is a troll you are very foolish indeed.

    So I had better be afraid of posters like you eh. ??

    Afraid? Who said anything about afraid? Except you of course. I was referring to foolishness not fear. They're not even on the same page in the dictionary.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    If you think Lamb Chopped is a troll you are very foolish indeed.

    So I had better be afraid of posters like you eh. ??

    Afraid? Who said anything about afraid? Except you of course. I was referring to foolishness not fear. They're not even on the same page in the dictionary.

    Go chase cats . I'd rather talk to a Jehovah's Witness.
  • So, no answer, only sass.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    So, no answer, only sass.

    If I thought you had any credibility, I would take you seriously.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    So, no answer, only sass.

    If I thought you had any credibility, I would take you seriously.

    If you had any decency, you would start taking more people here seriously. Indeed nobody on this particular thread deserves to be blown off the way you have been blowing people off. You are acting in a manner very unbecoming, and you don't appear to really want to have a serious discussion. You have spent most of your posts twitting people, or judging them. As if you have any right to judge anybody here, least of all Lamb Chopped. You don't care what I say but if you did I would say to calm down and not be so defensive and try to meet people where they are, which is to say how they present themselves. Nobody here is out to get you, nobody here is worthy of the derision you have attacked them with.

    You almost came clean in this post, but then you ignored your own good advice and went right back to posting smack. I think you would find this a great place to discuss things, and I think your OP is a great discussion-starter. But we need you to work with us and not just treat us like dirt. Up to you.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    So, no answer, only sass.

    If I thought you had any credibility, I would take you seriously.

    If you had any decency, you would start taking more people here seriously. Indeed nobody on this particular thread deserves to be blown off the way you have been blowing people off. You are acting in a manner very unbecoming, and you don't appear to really want to have a serious discussion. You have spent most of your posts twitting people, or judging them. As if you have any right to judge anybody here, least of all Lamb Chopped. You don't care what I say but if you did I would say to calm down and not be so defensive and try to meet people where they are, which is to say how they present themselves. Nobody here is out to get you, nobody here is worthy of the derision you have attacked them with.

    You almost came clean in this post, but then you ignored your own good advice and went right back to posting smack. I think you would find this a great place to discuss things, and I think your OP is a great discussion-starter. But we need you to work with us and not just treat us like dirt. Up to you.

    Glad you got that off your chest?
    I was just worried you didn't get any insults. You seemed envious of the others.
  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    edited February 20
    How would you react to that?
    With equanimity. There can be no "proof" so belief, or not, in the paternity of Jesus will remain unaltered.
    I think I would be sick to the stomach if the news were true.
    There can be no "proof" one way or the other - the only "proof" of paternity available is a DNA test which is not possible in this case.
    I've got all my money on it. I'm going for broke. If he isn't I feel life is meaningless.
    So you have a lot invested if a speculative news story for which there is no possible fact-check is floated and comes to be accepted. Therefore it comes down to choice: either you believe or you don't.
    Guys like Trump suddenly have credibility. (Apparently he thinks only losers get crucified)
    Irrelevant. Taking as your lodestar the rantings of a demagogue is always going to end in disillusion. Mr Trump has hardly shown himself to be one of the world's great thinkers.
    All of us who struggle in this life, who feel closer to losers than winners, will be heart broken. Jesus represents the short guy in this life. The one who doesn't quite cut the mustard.
    To lose the Christian message, is to lose everything.
    This is your opinion - don't impose your own predicted, and subjective, feelings onto others. To borrow a phrase "O ye of little faith".
  • How would you react to that?
    With equanimity. There can be no "proof" so belief, or not, in the paternity of Jesus will remain unaltered.
    I think I would be sick to the stomach if the news were true.
    There can be no "proof" one way or the other - the only "proof" of paternity available is a DNA test which is not possible in this case.
    I've got all my money on it. I'm going for broke. If he isn't I feel life is meaningless.
    So you have a lot invested if a speculative news story for which there is no possible fact-check is floated and comes to be accepted. Therefore it comes down to choice: either you believe or you don't.
    Guys like Trump suddenly have credibility. (Apparently he thinks only losers get crucified)
    Irrelevant. Taking as your lodestar the rantings of a demagogue is always going to end in disillusion. Mr Trump has hardly shown himself to be one of the world's great thinkers.
    All of us who struggle in this life, who feel closer to losers than winners, will be heart broken. Jesus represents the short guy in this life. The one who doesn't quite cut the mustard.
    To lose the Christian message, is to lose everything.
    This is your opinion - don't impose your own predicted, and subjective, feelings onto others. To borrow a phrase "O ye of little faith".

    Gotta love these surgical posters. They have to dissect and dismiss. Dissect and dismiss. They lack holistic comprehension but they are good on detail. Problem being they can't see the forest for the trees.
  • @Insanely humble You asked one question: (The news that Jesus is not the son of God) How would you react to that? And I gave you my answer: with equanimity.

    The rest of your original post was a series of statements of your reaction.

    Not dismissive:I responded to your statements, although it would appear my responses weren't what you wanted.
  • Did I tell about my traumatic childhood? As a baby abandoned and left in the bush, I was raised by dingoes. quickly learnt their language , then later taught their language to local indigenous.
    Age 10 , I was kidnapped by a passing circus, and they forced me to learn hoopla and the high wire as well. They didn't realise I suffered social anxiety and tummy upsets. I was afraid of heights!
    To be continued ......
  • I h--

    Ok. Never combine alcohol and ayahuasca during a waxing phase of the moon--and never, ever post in that condition. And never, ever, EVER feed a mogwai creature after midnight. Gremlins will occur.
    :fearful: :scream:
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    This thread is looking increasingly un-Purgatorial. I’m closing it for the time being pending a view from Hosts and Admins about it’s future.

    BroJames, Purgatory Host
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