Local pastor says, “Don't trust the science on Covid.”

Insanely humbleInsanely humble Shipmate
edited February 21 in Purgatory
Says a local pastor in my city.
"It's God's power at work"
"Aimed at shifting people into a completely new direction"
"Covid is part of God's reset for humanity and the science of corona virus should not be trusted".
Sorry if this topic is old. It's the only topic I could find suitable to discuss here. ( Hi Jedi Judy)
Needless to say, I think this pastor is seriously delusional. But maybe I'm being too harsh.
These pastors give the Christian brand a bad name.
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Comments

  • Too harsh?

    Not harsh enough. Idiots like that are killing people, and if he's doing that from the pulpit (whether literally or just because his status as a pastor gives his words authority) then that's just that much worse.
  • Too harsh?

    Not harsh enough. Idiots like that are killing people, and if he's doing that from the pulpit (whether literally or just because his status as a pastor gives his words authority) then that's just that much worse.

    I wonder if this pastor would have said that had Australia had the same severity of covid as the UK? I doubt it.
  • I agree with Alan. Stupidity and ignorance are bad enough but lies are worse. Lies spoken with 'authority' from the pulpit are poison.
  • Then atheists think we Christians are all the same. We get tarred with the same brush.
  • But he is not the only one who thinks Covid is God's intervention.
    Also I've heard even non Christians say that it has been a time to reflect. Our lives had become too busy until now.
  • It's not some dickwit like Danny Nalliah is it?
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    It's not some dickwit like Danny Nalliah is it?

    In Perth Australia
    The husband of a woman who is running for political office in the next state election. This is affecting her chances of election.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Too harsh?

    Not harsh enough. Idiots like that are killing people, and if he's doing that from the pulpit (whether literally or just because his status as a pastor gives his words authority) then that's just that much worse.
    There are occasions when people need to stand up and tell the Pastor that he is wrong.

  • Telford wrote: »
    Too harsh?

    Not harsh enough. Idiots like that are killing people, and if he's doing that from the pulpit (whether literally or just because his status as a pastor gives his words authority) then that's just that much worse.
    There are occasions when people need to stand up and tell the Pastor that he is wrong.

    This is true all over Orthodoxy especially in Russia but also a good deal in the United States. Many priests in Russia have died because of their disbelief in the science. I will not say it serves them right, but I do feel bad for any parishioners they have led astray. The highway to hell is paved with priests' bones.
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    It's the science on covid that has significantly helped Perth be almost entirely free of covid.
  • Then atheists think we Christians are all the same. We get tarred with the same brush.

    No suprises there. The noisiest professional Xtians are the worst

  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    It's not some dickwit like Danny Nalliah is it?

    In Perth Australia
    The husband of a woman who is running for political office in the next state election. This is affecting her chances of election.

    Can you please link an article about this case? When I hear a mad conservative evangelical position and WA, my mind leaps to Margaret Court. In Victoria, it's yer man Danny.
  • orfeo wrote: »
    It's the science on covid that has significantly helped Perth be almost entirely free of covid.

    Only scientists get the credit?
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    edited February 21
    orfeo wrote: »
    It's the science on covid that has significantly helped Perth be almost entirely free of covid.

    Only scientists get the credit?

    That isn't what I said, is it?

    EDIT: In fact it isn't even remotely close to what I said.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    It's not some dickwit like Danny Nalliah is it?

    In Perth Australia
    The husband of a woman who is running for political office in the next state election. This is affecting her chances of election.

    Can you please link an article about this case? When I hear a mad conservative evangelical position and WA, my mind leaps to Margaret Court. In Victoria, it's yer man Danny.

    I read this article at a coffee shop this morning . I've tried to find the link but to no avail.
    From Perth edition of sunday Times.
    I think his name is Campbell Markham. Not 100% sure. And used to be a pastor in Tasmania.
    Also he is Presbyterian. Now a pastor in Perth.
    I will check further and get back to you later . Hope I haven't confused the names here.
  • orfeo wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    It's the science on covid that has significantly helped Perth be almost entirely free of covid.

    Only scientists get the credit?

    That isn't what I said, is it?

    EDIT: In fact it isn't even remotely close to what I said.

    I know. But I'm wondering if you also give credit to the personal leadership as well for example
    McGowan. And other factors.
  • orfeo wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    It's the science on covid that has significantly helped Perth be almost entirely free of covid.

    Only scientists get the credit?

    That isn't what I said, is it?

    EDIT: In fact it isn't even remotely close to what I said.

    I know. But I'm wondering if you also give credit to the personal leadership as well for example
    McGowan. And other factors.

    What factors I mean.
  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    Reminds me of the the self styled Apostle Bishop Brian Tamaki of Destiny Church in New Zealand whose wife also stood (unsuccessfully) for Parliament in last year's elections. Ten years ago he claimed that the devastating quakes that hit Christchurch were caused by the number of gay people here- I was in awe, I didn't realise gays were so powerful.

    More recently he and his wife have been mouthing the kind of crap quoted in the opening post, also holding large gathering where no one is wearing a mask. I wouldn't mind so much if their actions only affected their own health, but this is irresponsible.
  • One in the news here was the Kingdom Church in Camberwell:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-52136588

    Anti-vaccine attitudes seem to be more prevalent in certain communities/ age groups. As reported, this particular example appears to be a minister overwhelmed more by worries of financial health than physical health. I think he made the wrong call.

    YMMV.
  • Always, always, always follow the money.
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    edited February 21
    orfeo wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    It's the science on covid that has significantly helped Perth be almost entirely free of covid.

    Only scientists get the credit?

    That isn't what I said, is it?

    EDIT: In fact it isn't even remotely close to what I said.

    I know. But I'm wondering if you also give credit to the personal leadership as well for example
    McGowan. And other factors.

    I wonder if you've read your own thread. I wasn't attempting a general discussion beyond responding to the fact that someone said not to trust the science.

    Why do you think McGowan ordered border closure? Science. Which is clearly a credit to McGowan, but I'm not commenting beyond that.
  • orfeo wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    It's the science on covid that has significantly helped Perth be almost entirely free of covid.

    Only scientists get the credit?

    That isn't what I said, is it?

    EDIT: In fact it isn't even remotely close to what I said.

    I know. But I'm wondering if you also give credit to the personal leadership as well for example
    McGowan. And other factors.

    I wonder if you've read your own thread. I wasn't attempting a general discussion beyond responding to the fact that someone said not to trust the science.

    Why do you think McGowan ordered border closure? Science. Which is clearly a credit to McGowan, but I'm not commenting beyond that.

    Look I've been away from intellectual rigor for a while. And I don't think like a scientist. Forgive me for expecting people to read between the lines now and then.
    Don't take it personally.im trying not to. And it seems to work better.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    Huia wrote: »
    Ten years ago he claimed that the devastating quakes that hit Christchurch were caused by the number of gay people here- I was in awe, I didn't realise gays were so powerful.
    It's all that swishing of hips and flicking of limp wrists, don't you know. Upsets the forces of nature.
  • Huia wrote: »
    Ten years ago he claimed that the devastating quakes that hit Christchurch were caused by the number of gay people here- I was in awe, I didn't realise gays were so powerful.
    It's all that swishing of hips and flicking of limp wrists, don't you know. Upsets the forces of nature.

    Nah, it's because the gays have much better sex than us straights, so the earth moves.
  • Also I've heard even non Christians say that it has been a time to reflect. Our lives had become too busy until now.

    There's a lot of blue water between the idea that it's worthwhile using all of the changes that have been forced on us by Covid to re-evaluate whether our old way of doing things could be improved, and thinking that Covid is a good thing.

    And I absolutely think that we (as individuals and as societies) should reflect on the Covid era, and see what we can take from it to improve ourselves - whether that's more work from home and/or zoom meetings (the challenge with zoom meetings is that if everyone's on zoom, you can do it with ordinary laptops and it's easy. Having half a meeting on zoom and half in a room requires at least a whole-room audio setup that's a significant expense to provide.), re-evaluating our lifestyles and how we choose to spend our time, and so on. We have been forced to get off the treadmill, and stepping back on is a choice.

    But there's no logical connection between thinking that we should make use of Covid as a learning experience and thinking that virologists are somehow making it up.
  • [/tangent] Please could we have the thread title adjusted so it is not a direct instruction to the reader to do harm. [/tangent]
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    FWIW (quite a lot in this case) I agree, and have changed the title. It loses some impact, but more accurately connects to the OP.

    BroJames, Purgatory Host
  • Yes indeed - much better, and much clearer.

  • . Having half a meeting on zoom and half in a room requires at least a whole-room audio setup that's a significant expense to provide.),

    I'm not so sure. A cheap external camera, a conference microphone and your living room TV is all you need other than the laptop. I know this because we did it prior to the pandemic. Our interim moderator is on a different island and one half of our session clerk is frequently working on the mainland so they Skyped into the meeting. With all the recent experiences protocols could be tightened up and you do need decent chairing more than ever but it's eminently doable.
  • A cheap external camera, a conference microphone and your living room TV is all you need other than the laptop.

    It's the "a conference microphone" thing that's tricky. If you have few enough people that you can gather around a single table, then it's not too bad. You point out you've done that before; I've had plenty of meetings with a handful of people sitting around a decent speakerphone, and they're OK. It's when you've got more people than fit around one microphone than it seems to get tricky.

    I've had some great meetings in rooms with fancy arrays of microphones hanging from the ceiling - they work well, and you can hear the whole room - but they're not portable.

    Does anyone have experience of hooking up arrays of microphones to a single laptop?
  • And I absolutely think that we (as individuals and as societies) should reflect on the Covid era, and see what we can take from it to improve ourselves - whether that's more work from home and/or zoom meetings . . . .
    I do hope it’s not more Zoom meetings. I appreciate that the technology is helpful when needed, and that it is unquestionably needed now, but I simply hate and dread meetings or gatherings via Zoom or similar platforms.

    But otherwise I agree with your observations. There is much to learn here, but acknowledging that is a long, long way from suggesting that COVID is a good thing, that it’s God-sent or that the science regarding it shouldn’t be trusted.

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I hate Zoom meetings, but hate in person ones even more. At least with Zoom you can turn off the camera citing bandwidth issues and get on with something productive while keeping an ear open.
  • .

    Does anyone have experience of hooking up arrays of microphones to a single laptop

    Yes and no. Multiple sound and video sources combined into a single stream and sent into a VC app, yes, but not external mics specifically. My conference mic is USB though so it ought to be feasible to have a few around the room, and feed them in through OBS. I can see a fair few ways to make it work (heck, you can feed the video and audio from phones into a single laptop, including doing it remotely, and combine it into a single feed) but I accept that it's not as off-the-peg simple as VC or in-person.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    I hate Zoom meetings, but hate in person ones even more. At least with Zoom you can turn off the camera citing bandwidth issues and get on with something productive while keeping an ear open.
    Fair enough. :lol:

    I’m the other way around though. Meeting aren’t my favorite thing, but if they have to happen, I’d much rather they be in person. I very much miss the personal interaction, the easier flow of discussion and the ability to read the room.

    But that said, I’ll be attending a Session meeting via Zoom this Tuesday night and a presbytery meeting via Zoom this Saturday. :unamused:

  • A cheap external camera, a conference microphone and your living room TV is all you need other than the laptop.

    It's the "a conference microphone" thing that's tricky. If you have few enough people that you can gather around a single table, then it's not too bad. You point out you've done that before; I've had plenty of meetings with a handful of people sitting around a decent speakerphone, and they're OK. It's when you've got more people than fit around one microphone than it seems to get tricky.

    I've had some great meetings in rooms with fancy arrays of microphones hanging from the ceiling - they work well, and you can hear the whole room - but they're not portable.

    Does anyone have experience of hooking up arrays of microphones to a single laptop?
    There's no particular reason you can't put an array of mics through a single laptop - ultimately it's no different to putting an array of mics into a speaker system through some form of mixing system - indeed, if you already have a room with a sound system and multiple mics it's probably as simple as taking an auxiliary output from the existing system into the computer.

    In any meeting, once you get above about a dozen people you need a chair who can make sure everyone has a say, and shut up people who interrupt. Once you get to enough people (or an oversized room with people spread out too much) that you need microphones then IME it's the case of handing round a radio mike to whoever has something to say with only the chair and any designated experts permanently miked. I don't think some people joining via a video link would make much difference at that point, and I expect that to be the normal experience for the next few years ... and, quite likely beyond that as it becomes more and more normal.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    KarlLB wrote: »
    I hate Zoom meetings, but hate in person ones even more. At least with Zoom you can turn off the camera citing bandwidth issues and get on with something productive while keeping an ear open.

    Works great with choir practice too, when the director is banging notes over and over again on a part you already know well and can sing without error.
  • And even without turning off the camera you can get on with your knitting below the desk! I have done half a jumper (American: sweater) nearly all during Zoom meetings since Christmas.
  • Yes indeed - much better, and much clearer.

    It's clarified in the first line of the first post.
    Honestly some people, are .........
    Sorry I've turned over a new leaf....thank you for finding fault. How would we survive without you.?
  • [/tangent] Please could we have the thread title adjusted so it is not a direct instruction to the reader to do harm. [/tangent]
    Yes indeed - much better, and much clearer.

    It's clarified in the first line of the first post.
    Honestly some people, are .........
    Sorry I've turned over a new leaf....thank you for finding fault. How would we survive without you.?

    As you will see from Doublethink's post, it was not I who queried the title of the thread, though I took the point, and agreed with the Hostly correction.
  • [/tangent] Please could we have the thread title adjusted so it is not a direct instruction to the reader to do harm. [/tangent]
    Yes indeed - much better, and much clearer.

    It's clarified in the first line of the first post.
    Honestly some people, are .........
    Sorry I've turned over a new leaf....thank you for finding fault. How would we survive without you.?

    As you will see from Doublethink's post, it was not I who queried the title of the thread, though I took the point, and agreed with the Hostly correction.

    Thank you for more awesome clarification. I'm totally unconfused now.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited February 21
    There is no need to be sarcastic, I think (though I say it as shouldn't, perhaps).

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Huia wrote: »
    Ten years ago he claimed that the devastating quakes that hit Christchurch were caused by the number of gay people here- I was in awe, I didn't realise gays were so powerful.
    It's all that swishing of hips and flicking of limp wrists, don't you know. Upsets the forces of nature.

    And they're like rabbits, always at it and thumping their feet at the same time.
  • Gee D wrote: »
    Huia wrote: »
    Ten years ago he claimed that the devastating quakes that hit Christchurch were caused by the number of gay people here- I was in awe, I didn't realise gays were so powerful.
    It's all that swishing of hips and flicking of limp wrists, don't you know. Upsets the forces of nature.

    And they're like rabbits, always at it and thumping their feet at the same time.

    Which must take an awful lot of concentration...
    :open_mouth:
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    You'd not think rabbits would be up to it but they manage well.
  • Yes indeed - much better, and much clearer.

    It's clarified in the first line of the first post.
    Honestly some people, are .........
    Sorry I've turned over a new leaf....thank you for finding fault. How would we survive without you.?

    I work in a hospital, and I have been supporting my parents both of whom have just been discharged after being hospitalised with Covid - I maybe hypervigilant but, y’know, reasons
  • Sagacious and well-organised social animals, rabbits. I know, coz I've seen the fillum.

    *ahem*

    Back to the OP - I've heard of a few cases in England where *pastors* have rubbished the science, ignored the Covid-19 restrictions, and so forth, but nothing lately.

    By and large, the mainstream churches seem to have taken the restrictions on board (a bit grumpily, sometimes) and been (mostly) responsible in their actions. AFAIK, the other faiths have done the same).

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    By and large, the mainstream churches seem to have taken the restrictions on board (a bit grumpily, sometimes) and been (mostly) responsible in their actions. AFAIK, the other faiths have done the same).

    They certainly have here. I think even Hillsong and its derivatives obey the instructions. In Sydney, the Catholic and Anglican (occasionally the Greek Orthodox) Abps have had regular meetings with the Health Minister, argued for loosening of restrictions, but have sent around instructions to the parishes and other dioceses keeping them up to date. I assume that the Minister does much the same for other denominations.
  • Yes indeed - much better, and much clearer.

    It's clarified in the first line of the first post.
    Honestly some people, are .........
    Sorry I've turned over a new leaf....thank you for finding fault. How would we survive without you.?

    I work in a hospital, and I have been supporting my parents both of whom have just been discharged after being hospitalised with Covid - I maybe hypervigilant but, y’know, reasons

    Ok well I guess I owe you an apology. That's a good reason.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited February 21
    Thanks :)
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    Yes indeed - much better, and much clearer.

    It's clarified in the first line of the first post.
    Honestly some people, are .........
    Sorry I've turned over a new leaf....thank you for finding fault. How would we survive without you.?

    Basically you created clickbait and are miffed it was turned into something slightly less clickbaity.
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