How is American Catholicism different to UK Catholicism?
This is just my superficial observation. The American Catholic Church seems very politically conservative. A number of their Bishops are horrified by what Pope Francis is doing , saying and standing for. Accused of being a hippie Pope.
How about British Catholic clergy? Are they unhappy with Francis too.
There's a tv channel called EWTN in America. I suspect it brainwashes a lot of American Catholics. To the point where they become proud Catholics who sneer at other Christian faiths. It's divisive rather than ecumenical.
Many Catholics here by the way?
How about British Catholic clergy? Are they unhappy with Francis too.
There's a tv channel called EWTN in America. I suspect it brainwashes a lot of American Catholics. To the point where they become proud Catholics who sneer at other Christian faiths. It's divisive rather than ecumenical.
Many Catholics here by the way?
Comments
Does EWTN spend a lot of time lambasting other Christian faiths?
FWIW, the one Catholic I know who watches EWTN on a daily basis is also a pretty huge fan of Francis I.
Burke is one. He's a cardinal though.
You should read some of the vitriol conservative Catholics write about this Pope. " He's the anti Christ". It's all slippery slope from now on.
The person I know doesn't simply respect Francis. She thinks he's absolutely fantastic, and raves about him in a way she didn't rave about, eg. Benedict XVI.
Different opinions are allowed on my thread.
Of course. But you seemed to be suggesting that American conservative Catholics dislike the current Pope, and that they are brainwashed into their conservativism by EWTN. So I'm citing an example of a pretty conservative EWTN-viewer who seems to be getting the opposite opinion of Francis.
You are free to provide counter-examples of EWTN viewers of your acquaintance getting propagandized against Pope Francis.
Ok thanks. I will take a look at that. I'm of Irish ancestry too. Which is pretty common in Australia. May I ask why you steer clear of internal Catholic stuff?
Thanks for allowing me to be free .
Did anyone rave about Benedict XVI?
I've replied to this in Hell. Sorry, no link in this thread right now, but the thread-title is obvious.
The Latin Mass obsessives? Homophobes?
I'm just not into that side of things any more. Plus, the handling of child abuse allegations by the Church remains woefully inadequate. Plus, I hate the church's positions on sex, gender, abortion etc. I would prefer to be in the Uniting Church, but they are too low church for me liturgically. The Anglicans are fine, but I like the Catholic service. I just go to hear the mass.
Having said that, a great number of bishops in both countries were appointed by Benedict, many on the basis of being a safe conservative pair of hands. While Francis has appointed men to key dioceses who are more attuned to his thinking. In the USA there is sometimes public tension between the two. The hierarchy in both countries has been found woefully wanting when it comes to their handling of child abuse and this has robbed them of much authority.
UK bishops rarely speak out on political matters. They are marginal to UK public life as are churches in general. They are a pretty mediocre bunch to be honest. USA bishops issue more statements on political matters, but do not speak with a single voice. There are those who see everything through the lens of abortion and there are those who see being "pro-life" as including the death penalty which the RC church has condemned, and policies that impinge on the quality and length of life (health care, housing, equality of opportunity, levels of pay, education etc.) It is noticeable that those bishops who are apoplectic about Bidens views on abortion were silent during Trumps final killing spree of executions.
Apparently Catholics voted in equal numbers for Trump and Biden. In the UK the Catholic vote used to be pretty solidly Labour, but is now more evenly spread.
For an insight into more liberal catholic views I go to this web-site which has considered views on the church and the (American) world.
https://ncronline.org/
When we say "church" what are we talking about? The bishops? The people?
Hierarchy and people.
My impression is that it is not quite so in the US, where churchgoing seems to be at a higher level than here, though whether this applies to the American RCC, I couldn't say. US Shipmates will be better able to answer, I think.
I think you'd find a significant presence of immigrants in Catholic churches in Britain - Irish, Italian, Polish, Filipino etc. With a culture that tends to be internationalist as well as pro-family.
So the RCs as a group don't fit into either the xenophobic political Right, or the sexually-anything-goes political Left.
It's not a political voting bloc in the way that Catholics are sometimes described in the US.
So the sex scandals have taken centre stage.
But if you go on American Christian internet forums , you will notice a conservative bias. Cardinal Burke is an arch conservative at odds with Francis. The gay question and whether divorcees should be allowed Communion are just some issues.
There's a Jesuit priest in America . His name James Martin. He appears on tv quite often. He has spoken in support of Pope Francis and gays.
He's copped enormous flak for it.
That's useful information. Thanks Russ
https://youtu.be/kA-Q4_UjoVk
Yes my faith was tested recently as 2 years ago. When a local priest suicided after child molestation charges were brought against him.
The Church can be quite inflexible on issues such as abortion and gays. But I see good people in the Church still. Doing good things. Helping the poor. Living the gospel . Overall I like Catholicism and maintain some loyalty to Mass and the core gospel messages.
Conservative Catholics don't like him.
And apparently some conservative priest denied him communion. That was a few years ago.
You know more about these things I imagine.
Would you care to explain what you mean by that remark? My previous post (the one you quote) was in response to your comment Conservative Catholics don't like him.
With all due respect, it might have been better to directly quote me then. To avoid confusion.
Which post are you responding to?
Of course, it might not be a response at all, but just an expression of ennui...
Re President Biden - at least the man appears to be a genuine practising Christian, unlike some other political *leaders* I could think of. The possibility that he might have some liberal views raises him even higher in my estimation (FWIW).
The RC bishops have set up some sort of a working party about denying communion to people who are not pro-life in the narrow definition they prefer - anti abortion but not anti guns/death penalty/all the social issues that shorten life. There are other bishops who are deeply, deeply unhappy at what is seen as weaponising the Eucharist.
We shall see.
Dear gods - is that the most important issue those bishops can think of addressing? No wonder churches are in decline (the C of E is just as guilty, with its everlasting preoccupation with Secks and Philth, and with what people do with their Genitals).
Full marks, though, to the bishops who are unhappy at this move.
Until fairly recently the RC population in the UK would concern itself with its own faithful and would usually only be noticed by the general population in cases of titillating scandal.
Bishops ,in general, if they made any sort of political statements would not be reported unless it concerned sexual matters which fascinate the general population.
It seems to me, from what I have read that the RC church in the USA has a good many conservatively minded bishops, but it may be that they just shout the loudest.
For most Catholics ,whether they are living in the USA or the UK, the Church is what they see and experience in their own parish. The bigger doctrinal issues pass many people by and the sense of community which is often very strong is what keeps a good number of people involved.
In both countries the RC Church is a 'big tent' One of the good things about the Church is indeed its catholicity (if there is such a word). There are people with many differing views and even beliefs but they understand that we need to stay together under the one roof and part, but certainly not all, of that staying together is held in place by the respect due to the Chief Pastor/pope. It pains me at times when I hear Catholics denigrating the pope, whether he be considered more 'liberal' or more 'conservative'.
When I look at the Presbyterian churches in my country I see over the course of centuries a number of separations which means that you can have a 'liberal' church or one which is considered, perhaps wrongly, to be 'narrow minded' .When you have those 'denominations 'a member of one church can say of another 'we are not like those others'. But again you will have in each denomination to some extent those who see their religion as keeping to the rules inflexibly and those who will belief in their faith as making them live adventurously.
It is the same for Catholics, both in the USA and UK - there will be those who value highly the deposit of faith which has to be maintained, no matter what society in general says and there will be those who say that we have to venture out into society, we have to try to understand and learn from secular society long before we insist of telling society in general what is wrong with it.
St Mary's RC cathedral in Newcastle upon Tyne in the North East of England is a fine Pugin building well over 150 years old. Some years ago it was given a complete makeover. I'm always impressed when I read at the entrance that St Mary's has been there for so many years concerning itself with the Tyneside Catholics. Now its doors are wide open to welcome anyone who comes in. There must be many Catholic churches like that in the USA also ?
It would appear that the question posed in the OP is not really one that can be answered, at least easily. However, to what extent do RC parishes in America co-operate with their neighbouring denominations?
My vague impression is that the RCC in England is much more open to working with other churches than it used to be, back in the Days Of My Yoof.
It is often said of the RC Church in the UK that it is full of immigrants, That must be doubly so in the USA, and not just for the RC Church ,as the great majority of the population is of immigrant stock.
I do remember in the early 1970s when a cricketer of west Indian heritage first played for Yorkshire and it being remarked that he did indeed have the required birth qualification.
But to get back to the subject: Growing up Catholic, my experience was that most of the parishes in our city were ethnic parishes: Italian, Polish, Irish and German predominated.
The mass was in Latin, of course, but the faithful attending at least one mass each Sunday heard the gospel read and the sermon preached in the language of the Old Country.
After Vatican 2, at least one mass each Sunday was celebrated in said language as well.
I don't find that scandals in the churches, RC or otherwise, test my faith. But I was an apostate who returned to Christianity and then to church, so my identity or faith in Christ isn't wrapped up in that.
I had the great pleasure of knowing a nun as a student some years ago. She considers that the failures of the Catholic Church mean that it is a broken institution, but it was her broken institution. I add that it is a broken institution in a broken world full of broken people.
That depends on how accepting your society is, and probably also of the skin tone of the "immigrant". The US has plenty of people with Italian or Polish surnames, for example, who have some traditional family recipes but are functionally just American.
Whereas someone who lives in a community of people from the same immigrant background, and mostly only associates with those people, probably still feels / is treated as an immigrant even if they're a third generation citizen.
Functionally, your family are immigrants until your host society stops treating you that way.
What I've found when travelling in Africa (before the Covid lockdown) is that the issues and divisions of the West are not often an issue for local churches. The impact of the English-speaking Internet just isn't the same, so the polarised debates between conservatives and liberals over Vatican II aren't experienced the same way. There is widespread respect for the Pope (not reverence because popes come and go) and papal visits have been popular since the frequent trips made by John-Paul II. Some concerns are similar and sadly relate to sexual abuse in missionary churches and the role of women in ministry, as African sisters (nuns) are now being asked to support 'reverse mission' work to countries such as the United States, Canada, Australia, and the United Kingdom to bolster the work of dwindling congregations and dioceses.
The influence of liberation theologies remains a positive and growing influence with many older base communities still active in poorer areas. It's worth noting that you're unlikely to ever hear a Catholic priest preach on the evils of contraception in any southern African Church because of the effectiveness of condoms in reducing the heterosexual transmission of HIV/Aids, still a huge health concern in Africa.