And dragging in Harry's mother and the press is a can of worms for many reasons, not least her friendships with tabloid editors.
As for Harry and the funeral procession: the RF wanted a private family funeral specifically to protect the children. When they were bounced into the Abbey circus they wanted the boys to travel to the service by car, either with their father or their uncle Charles, Diana's brother. Both of these options were over-ruled by the office of Tony Blair, partly because of pressure from the Great British Public - the same public who thought it more important that the Queen be in London rather than comforting her 12 and 15 year old grandsons.
The GBP were like jackals after that poor woman died, just as their insatiable demand for photographs of her caused so much of the hounding before.
The Great British Public, or the Great British Public as presented and manipulated by the tabloid press? I knew quite a few people who were just bemused by the drummed up grief at the time, following the death of Diana, Princess of Wales. But it was almost taboo to question the tabloid version of events.
@MMM I would suggest that the tenor of stories we heard about Harry and Meghan has been manipulated by the tabloids. If I dig I might be able to find aome articles taking apart the manufactured stories as the tabloid press at the time.
It's like an abusive marriage. Some people seem to be accepting the abuse by the tabloids as a natural phenomenon, which you have to placate. In fact, the abused side here (M and H), are actually being blamed for pointing it out. This reminds me of women who are told to put up with a violent husband.
Here's the thing, though. The treatment of the Duchess of Sussex by the media wasn't actually illegal. Nasty? Sure. Motivated in part by race? Probably. But it's not illegal, and it's quite difficult to stand in the rather privileged position that the brother and sister-in-law of the future King occupy, and say "the nasty men are picking on us".
I think the tabloids would agree with that. How can anyone so rich complain about misogyny and racism? Anyway, she's only one step from the ghetto, so she should thank her lucky stars. Straight outta Compton, is I believe the Daily Mail version. I think the Daily Star had Harry marrying into gangster royalty.
The Great British Public, or the Great British Public as presented and manipulated by the tabloid press? I knew quite a few people who were just bemused by the drummed up grief at the time, following the death of Diana, Princess of Wales.
I was one of them. I didn’t watch the funeral, luckily my friend was getting married that day - and I avoided all news bulletins. It was a horrible circus.
The Great British Public, or the Great British Public as presented and manipulated by the tabloid press? I knew quite a few people who were just bemused by the drummed up grief at the time, following the death of Diana, Princess of Wales.
I was one of them. I didn’t watch the funeral, luckily my friend was getting married that day - and I avoided all news bulletins. It was a horrible circus.
Not sure about drummed up. I lived near Kensington Palace, so walked along to see the flowers. I felt convulsed by it, so much public grief and mourning, no doubt a lot of it channelled from elsewhere. Many friends ditto, it was like walking into a giant wave.
Both Prince William and Prince Harry are on record saying how weird they found all the laying of flowers, etc at their mother's death. As they said, these people didn't know her so why? Once back at school William was far more forthright describing the press coverage as nauseating and the public funeral as completely horrible.
I admit that I did watch the funeral - Mrs BF was at work, and there was nothing else to do (the entire country seemed to be closed down more firmly than during Lockdown the First!).
It was indeed completely horrible, and almost unbelievably surreal. An alien visitor that day would have surely concluded that a god had died...
GK, I think you and I would say "caught" in place of "copped."
Barack Obama got Secret Service protection in May 2007, a year and a half before the presidential election, long before he became the Democratic candidate and the earliest any candidate for president has received Secret Service protection. You don't get protection like that unless security officials agree that you need it. The racism he faced throughout his candidacy and his presidency was unrelenting. Look up racist caricatures of him and his wife sometime if you need convincing. The notion that power and status somehow make someone immune from racism and misogyny is ridiculous.
Doc Tor: The 'animal mechant' referred to was Meghan (and Harry). Sorry if that was not clear to you.
'Cop it' has the same meaning in Oz and Pommie-land (IKania).
I admit that I did watch the funeral - Mrs BF was at work, and there was nothing else to do (the entire country seemed to be closed down more firmly than during Lockdown the First!).
It was indeed completely horrible, and almost unbelievably surreal. An alien visitor that day would have surely concluded that a god had died...
It wasn't completely horrible. I thought some of the music was great. Not at all Diana's taste, of course. And while I love Elton John I'm afraid his England's Rose gloop was a definite lowlight. But the proper church stuff was great.
IMHO the low point was shared between Elton John's cobbled together horror and the Sebastian Temple Make me a channel (rare glitch for WA they wrongly attributed it to Francis of Assisi).
High points: the Croft/Purcell settings of the Sentences and Lynne Dawson singing the excerpt from Verdi's Requiem.
Are they on the rocks? Well yes but they own the sea as well as the beach so there's always a way out. Throw a few people under the bus, pass the buck, get on with the motley.
I kind of liked Elton John's revamp of "Candle In The Wind". IMVHO, it suited the public feeling at the moment, and I think EJ and D were friends.
They may have been friends but it was a mawkish, stomach-turning moment. It simply bought into the Diana myth that she was a saintly figure who had been gravely wronged.
I kind of liked Elton John's revamp of "Candle In The Wind". IMVHO, it suited the public feeling at the moment, and I think EJ and D were friends.
They may have been friends but it was a mawkish, stomach-turning moment. It simply bought into the Diana myth that she was a saintly figure who had been gravely wronged.
I thought Tony Blair read some bible thing well. Unless I'm remembering some other fake sincerity of the guy.
I kind of liked Elton John's revamp of "Candle In The Wind". IMVHO, it suited the public feeling at the moment, and I think EJ and D were friends.
They may have been friends but it was a mawkish, stomach-turning moment. It simply bought into the Diana myth that she was a saintly figure who had been gravely wronged.
Yes, there was/is a myth. But she really had been gravely wronged. And AIUI she did do good in the world.
EJ may have felt that way, too--in which case it expressed his grief, rather than pushing a myth he didn't believe for career purposes.
Don't remember that detail. We weren't invited, but then we'd not invited either bride or groom to our wedding a couple of years earlier.
Darling Point and Double Bay are suburbs to the east of the city and on the southern shores of the harbour. Double Bay is more of a small shopping centre, but homes at Darling Point are very expensive.
As to what the new job actually does, I have no idea.
Because of zero interest rates and QE there's a lot of money sloshing around looking for a return, so there are additional sinecures to go around for the connected (see also Nick Clegg).
As to what the new job actually does, I have no idea.
There are lots of jobs around with rather nebulous titles. Some of the people holding such a "vague job" do lots of useful work. Some of them do nothing at all.
Whether the Duke of Sussex will produce any useful output, or whether his contribution is just to have a famous name and face remains to be seen.
Yes he does show some resemblance to George V - another not-very-bright second son.
As to the 'job', apparently it's partly something to do with mental health - ironic, given that he claimed to be completely banjaxed about getting help for his wife when she was experiencing mental health issues.
Yes, save that St Mark's is Darling Point (think of it as St George's Hanover Square) and most definitely not Darlinghurst. St John has that task. He does so very well, with great care through the Rough Edges programme for those living on the streets.
The night before Diana died, we were with friends watching the film version of Evita. We all commented that it was hard to imagine such hysterical scenes of mourning at the death of a public figure in Britain.
What an anvilicious comment that turned out to be.
I remember being shocked at how quickly the tabloid press turned from calling her a slut to a saint. Mere hours.
I can’t say I was particularly distraught myself though I did feel pity for the boys. But I think the outpouring of grief was at least in part because people felt able to publicly mourn their own losses, in a way we just don’t do here.
The night before Diana died, we were with friends watching the film version of Evita. We all commented that it was hard to imagine such hysterical scenes of mourning at the death of a public figure in Britain.
What an anvilicious comment that turned out to be.
I remember being shocked at how quickly the tabloid press turned from calling her a slut to a saint. Mere hours.
I can’t say I was particularly distraught myself though I did feel pity for the boys. But I think the outpouring of grief was at least in part because people felt able to publicly mourn their own losses, in a way we just don’t do here.
Indeed. My friend took the trip to London to join the crowd. She said she felt compelled to go.
I wasn’t even vaguely upset personally. I did feel sorry for the family, just as I would any family I didn’t know. But when that woman wailed as the coffin went by I was exasperated. I remember saying ‘For goodness sake, she didn’t know her. If she was her friend she’d be in the church - stupid woman’. She must have been projecting a grief of her own into the situation.
Barnabas62Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
Host Hat On
We’ve probably been too lenient with this thread and we recognise the levels of interest and curiosity. But it’s probably time (maybe well over time) to draw a couple of lines.
1. If you want to rant about any specific royal, Hell is the place for rants.
2. If you want to continue to discuss the future of the Royal Family as an institution, this is the place.
3. If you want to discuss anything else Royal we suggest you consider starting a new thread, the home of which does not need to be Purgatory. For example there is probably scope for a good discussion or two about outpourings of public grief re people only known by reputation. But that has nothing to do with the future of the Royal Family as an institution.
@Sojourner It's the sort of staff turnover that would attract serious investigation in a commercial enterprise. Even if one ignores the period since they fled the RF, their turnover rate from January 2018 to December 2020 was 45%. For comparison, outside retail and hospitality the average is around 15%.
It’s turned into an extended whinge about the Sussexes in particular the Duchess with a few asides about the late Princess of Wales
It is noteworthy that there has been ( relatively) little contribution from posters who hail from places such as Oz where Elizabeth is the ( nominal) sovereign. I guess that shows that the level of interest is not all that great
Barnabas62Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
Sojourner underlines my Host post. Do the Royals as a whole have a bad record in staff retention? I guess that might be a legitimate issue of criticism to raise in this thread. So far as the Sussexes are concerned it looks more appropriate to a Hellish rant if anybody wants to be bothered to do that. It hardly adds to serious discussion about the future of the Royal Family as an institution.
Comments
And dragging in Harry's mother and the press is a can of worms for many reasons, not least her friendships with tabloid editors.
As for Harry and the funeral procession: the RF wanted a private family funeral specifically to protect the children. When they were bounced into the Abbey circus they wanted the boys to travel to the service by car, either with their father or their uncle Charles, Diana's brother. Both of these options were over-ruled by the office of Tony Blair, partly because of pressure from the Great British Public - the same public who thought it more important that the Queen be in London rather than comforting her 12 and 15 year old grandsons.
The GBP were like jackals after that poor woman died, just as their insatiable demand for photographs of her caused so much of the hounding before.
@MMM I would suggest that the tenor of stories we heard about Harry and Meghan has been manipulated by the tabloids. If I dig I might be able to find aome articles taking apart the manufactured stories as the tabloid press at the time.
I think the tabloids would agree with that. How can anyone so rich complain about misogyny and racism? Anyway, she's only one step from the ghetto, so she should thank her lucky stars. Straight outta Compton, is I believe the Daily Mail version. I think the Daily Star had Harry marrying into gangster royalty.
I was one of them. I didn’t watch the funeral, luckily my friend was getting married that day - and I avoided all news bulletins. It was a horrible circus.
Not sure about drummed up. I lived near Kensington Palace, so walked along to see the flowers. I felt convulsed by it, so much public grief and mourning, no doubt a lot of it channelled from elsewhere. Many friends ditto, it was like walking into a giant wave.
It was indeed completely horrible, and almost unbelievably surreal. An alien visitor that day would have surely concluded that a god had died...
Barack Obama got Secret Service protection in May 2007, a year and a half before the presidential election, long before he became the Democratic candidate and the earliest any candidate for president has received Secret Service protection. You don't get protection like that unless security officials agree that you need it. The racism he faced throughout his candidacy and his presidency was unrelenting. Look up racist caricatures of him and his wife sometime if you need convincing. The notion that power and status somehow make someone immune from racism and misogyny is ridiculous.
'Cop it' has the same meaning in Oz and Pommie-land (IKania).
It wasn't completely horrible. I thought some of the music was great. Not at all Diana's taste, of course. And while I love Elton John I'm afraid his England's Rose gloop was a definite lowlight. But the proper church stuff was great.
High points: the Croft/Purcell settings of the Sentences and Lynne Dawson singing the excerpt from Verdi's Requiem.
Re Obamas:
Ahhhhhh. Thx, Sojourner. Makes more sense now!
Thanks.
I just got tripped up by the wording,
They may have been friends but it was a mawkish, stomach-turning moment. It simply bought into the Diana myth that she was a saintly figure who had been gravely wronged.
I'm not proposing to throw anyone under the bus. I'm simply reflecting back what the Windsors do - who they throw will be interesting
I thought Tony Blair read some bible thing well. Unless I'm remembering some other fake sincerity of the guy.
Just very good friends.
Clarification of "Just very good friends", please? If you're saying they were platonic friends, well, yeah, I'd assume so, EJ being gay.
Yes, there was/is a myth. But she really had been gravely wronged. And AIUI she did do good in the world.
EJ may have felt that way, too--in which case it expressed his grief, rather than pushing a myth he didn't believe for career purposes.
FWIW.
I was only suggesting a platonic friendship for just that reason. But he had been married to a woman briefly at one stage.
Darling Point and Double Bay are suburbs to the east of the city and on the southern shores of the harbour. Double Bay is more of a small shopping centre, but homes at Darling Point are very expensive.
As to what the new job actually does, I have no idea.
Because of zero interest rates and QE there's a lot of money sloshing around looking for a return, so there are additional sinecures to go around for the connected (see also Nick Clegg).
There are lots of jobs around with rather nebulous titles. Some of the people holding such a "vague job" do lots of useful work. Some of them do nothing at all.
Whether the Duke of Sussex will produce any useful output, or whether his contribution is just to have a famous name and face remains to be seen.
As to the 'job', apparently it's partly something to do with mental health - ironic, given that he claimed to be completely banjaxed about getting help for his wife when she was experiencing mental health issues.
Yes, save that St Mark's is Darling Point (think of it as St George's Hanover Square) and most definitely not Darlinghurst. St John has that task. He does so very well, with great care through the Rough Edges programme for those living on the streets.
What an anvilicious comment that turned out to be.
I remember being shocked at how quickly the tabloid press turned from calling her a slut to a saint. Mere hours.
I can’t say I was particularly distraught myself though I did feel pity for the boys. But I think the outpouring of grief was at least in part because people felt able to publicly mourn their own losses, in a way we just don’t do here.
‘anvilicious’ - good one!
Indeed. My friend took the trip to London to join the crowd. She said she felt compelled to go.
I wasn’t even vaguely upset personally. I did feel sorry for the family, just as I would any family I didn’t know. But when that woman wailed as the coffin went by I was exasperated. I remember saying ‘For goodness sake, she didn’t know her. If she was her friend she’d be in the church - stupid woman’. She must have been projecting a grief of her own into the situation.
Looks like it’s not a fun job.
We’ve probably been too lenient with this thread and we recognise the levels of interest and curiosity. But it’s probably time (maybe well over time) to draw a couple of lines.
1. If you want to rant about any specific royal, Hell is the place for rants.
2. If you want to continue to discuss the future of the Royal Family as an institution, this is the place.
3. If you want to discuss anything else Royal we suggest you consider starting a new thread, the home of which does not need to be Purgatory. For example there is probably scope for a good discussion or two about outpourings of public grief re people only known by reputation. But that has nothing to do with the future of the Royal Family as an institution.
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
Host Hat Off
Thirty nine pages here Just for starters
It’s turned into an extended whinge about the Sussexes in particular the Duchess with a few asides about the late Princess of Wales
It is noteworthy that there has been ( relatively) little contribution from posters who hail from places such as Oz where Elizabeth is the ( nominal) sovereign. I guess that shows that the level of interest is not all that great
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host