How is Brexit affecting us?

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  • Maybe, but it's the usher (or *usherette*, as it used to be in England) who holds the little torch so that you can see to get into your seat.

    Generally, I find that there's enough ambient light (from things like emergency exit signs) to make out where the seats are. Plus, these days, of course, practically everyone carries a device that functions as a little torch, should such be required.
  • Ah well, you obviously have better vision (or better specs) than I!

    Please, what is the *device* of which you speak?
  • Fawkes CatFawkes Cat Shipmate
    edited May 7
    Ah well, you obviously have better vision (or better specs) than I!

    Please, what is the *device* of which you speak?

    I think @Leorning Cniht has the mobile phone in mind. Or possibly a cigarette lighter if they're from a particularly tobacco*-ridden environment.

    *Other herb-based smoking products are available. Although not necessarily legally.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Swipe up and there it is - a torch!
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Smartphone. Though the theaters I go to have the lights up before the movie or play starts. Ushers are for people who don't know their way around the place or for throwing disruptive people out of movie theaters.

    The IRS is severely underfunded, so they only audit people who are easy to audit - very rich people simply don't get audited, while average people do. Yes, everyone should pay their taxes, but I'll care about people not declaring cash tips and making money under the table when Amazon pays its fair share.

  • Boogie wrote: »
    Swipe up and there it is - a torch!

    Ah, I thought so - I don't possess such an Engine of Satan, so had better not venture into a cinema...
  • Fawkes Cat wrote: »
    I think @Leorning Cniht has the mobile phone in mind. Or possibly a cigarette lighter if they're from a particularly tobacco*-ridden environment.

    Yes, it was the telephone that I had in mind. In my circles, asking "have you got a light?" these days will get you a number of blank looks. (Actually, I also carry a tiny LED light on my keyring, but I'm a bit odd.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Ruth wrote: »
    ... I'll care about people not declaring cash tips and making money under the table when Amazon pays its fair share.
    Hear, hear.
  • The RogueThe Rogue Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    Smartphone. Though the theaters I go to have the lights up before the movie or play starts. Ushers are for people who don't know their way around the place or for throwing disruptive people out of movie theaters.

    Do they get a tip from the people they eject?
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    Probably not. But it would a nice gesture for the rest of the theater to pass the hat to tip for the ejection of an obnoxious patron. :wink:
  • Not perhaps a direct effect on us unfortunate Brits, but O the shame...
    https://theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/13/eu-citizens-arriving-in-uk-being-locked-up-and-expelled

    :rage:
  • DooneDoone Shipmate
    Not perhaps a direct effect on us unfortunate Brits, but O the shame...
    https://theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/13/eu-citizens-arriving-in-uk-being-locked-up-and-expelled

    :rage:

    Thanks for this, @Bishops Finger. Ashamed doesn’t even begin to describe my feelings!
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    If we were still in the EU we’d be in Germany now visiting my son. 😢
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    edited May 13
    Welcome to the brave new world of immigration. As is well known, the US has put its detainees in chain-link cages in recent times. :disappointed: :hushed:
  • We put ours in old army barracks, deemed unfit for Our Boys to inhabit...
    :angry:
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited May 13
    Meanwhile, up in Glasgow, local residents have succeeded in staving off deportation (for the time being) of some refugees - in Nicola Sturgeon's own constituency, no less. She is very pleased!
    https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/13/glasgow-residents-surround-and-block-immigration-van-from-leaving-street

    Again, nothing to do directly with Brexit, but an indication as to how low and evil the English Home Office has become...
  • Boogie wrote: »
    If we were still in the EU we’d be in Germany now visiting my son. 😢

    Is this a Brexit thing or a corona thing?
  • Meanwhile, up in Glasgow, local residents have succeeded in staving off deportation (for the time being) of some refugees - in Nicola Sturgeon's own constituency, no less. She is very pleased!
    https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/13/glasgow-residents-surround-and-block-immigration-van-from-leaving-street

    Again, nothing to do directly with Brexit, but an indication as to how low and evil the English Home Office has become...

    Not become, at least not recently. The Home Office has been a festering shit bucket for at least a couple of decades now. The Guardian's Long Read on the subject makes interesting and depressing reading:
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/13/cruel-paranoid-failing-priti-patel-inside-the-home-office
    It confirms what most of us long suspected, that the Home Office is dedicated to offering up the lives of refugees to placate the gods of our far right press.
  • The HO restarted the dawn raid approach sometime ago. This time the neighbours saw what was happening soon enough to intervene, other times people have been pulled out of bed to detention centres before others could react. People who leave their homes seeking somewhere safe from being dragged out of their beds by jack booted thugs and locked up in prison without trial shouldn't find that they get to the UK only to have jack booted thugs drag them out of their beds to lock them up in prison without trial.

    It's barbaric and inhumane to do this anyway, but to do this during a pandemic creating potential spreading events is just fucking stupid.

    I know a few of the 100s of people who took to the streets yesterday. Heroes in my opinion.

    Oh, and you also need to question why at least one police officers was permitted to attach a racist/xenophobic and potentially fascist emblem on the outside of his stab vest.
  • Meanwhile, up in Glasgow, local residents have succeeded in staving off deportation (for the time being) of some refugees - in Nicola Sturgeon's own constituency, no less. She is very pleased!
    https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/13/glasgow-residents-surround-and-block-immigration-van-from-leaving-street

    Again, nothing to do directly with Brexit, but an indication as to how low and evil the English Home Office has become...

    Not become, at least not recently. The Home Office has been a festering shit bucket for at least a couple of decades now. The Guardian's Long Read on the subject makes interesting and depressing reading:
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/13/cruel-paranoid-failing-priti-patel-inside-the-home-office
    It confirms what most of us long suspected, that the Home Office is dedicated to offering up the lives of refugees to placate the gods of our far right press.

    Yes, but ISTM that it's simply that, under the *rule* of Ugli Patel, the cruelty and hatefulness is becoming far more overt.

    What @Alan Cresswell said, too.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Shipmate
    Meanwhile, up in Glasgow, local residents have succeeded in staving off deportation (for the time being) of some refugees - in Nicola Sturgeon's own constituency, no less. She is very pleased!
    https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/13/glasgow-residents-surround-and-block-immigration-van-from-leaving-street

    Again, nothing to do directly with Brexit, but an indication as to how low and evil the English Home Office has become...

    Not become, at least not recently. The Home Office has been a festering shit bucket for at least a couple of decades now. The Guardian's Long Read on the subject makes interesting and depressing reading:
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/13/cruel-paranoid-failing-priti-patel-inside-the-home-office
    It confirms what most of us long suspected, that the Home Office is dedicated to offering up the lives of refugees to placate the gods of our far right press.

    Yes, but ISTM that it's simply that, under the *rule* of Ugli Patel, the cruelty and hatefulness is becoming far more overt.

    There's a section towards the end of the article that addresses this:

    "Then there is the current home secretary to contend with. Under Priti Patel, the rhetoric emanating from the top of the Home Office has taken a disturbing turn, with a barrage of attacks on “activist” or “lefty” lawyers. In October, it emerged that two of Patel’s cabinet colleagues – the lord chancellor and the attorney general – had warned her to tone down her statements. Nonetheless, Patel and Boris Johnson both went on to target “lefty lawyers” in their Conservative party conference speeches a few weeks later. The following month, when the bullying inquiry concluded that Patel had broken the ministerial code in her treatment of civil servants, Johnson refused to sack her – a decision that prompted the resignation of his ethics adviser."
  • Meanwhile, up in Glasgow, local residents have succeeded in staving off deportation (for the time being) of some refugees - in Nicola Sturgeon's own constituency, no less. She is very pleased!
    https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/13/glasgow-residents-surround-and-block-immigration-van-from-leaving-street

    Again, nothing to do directly with Brexit, but an indication as to how low and evil the English Home Office has become...

    Not become, at least not recently. The Home Office has been a festering shit bucket for at least a couple of decades now. The Guardian's Long Read on the subject makes interesting and depressing reading:
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/13/cruel-paranoid-failing-priti-patel-inside-the-home-office
    It confirms what most of us long suspected, that the Home Office is dedicated to offering up the lives of refugees to placate the gods of our far right press.

    Yes, but ISTM that it's simply that, under the *rule* of Ugli Patel, the cruelty and hatefulness is becoming far more overt.

    There's a section towards the end of the article that addresses this:

    "Then there is the current home secretary to contend with. Under Priti Patel, the rhetoric emanating from the top of the Home Office has taken a disturbing turn, with a barrage of attacks on “activist” or “lefty” lawyers. In October, it emerged that two of Patel’s cabinet colleagues – the lord chancellor and the attorney general – had warned her to tone down her statements. Nonetheless, Patel and Boris Johnson both went on to target “lefty lawyers” in their Conservative party conference speeches a few weeks later. The following month, when the bullying inquiry concluded that Patel had broken the ministerial code in her treatment of civil servants, Johnson refused to sack her – a decision that prompted the resignation of his ethics adviser."

    Perhaps the egregious Ugli will go too far, one of these fine days, and will be forced to resign before being hauled off to one of her own jails.
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    There's a history. Michael Dummett, in his On Immigration and Refugees, written in the describes Roy Jenkins as the only Home Secretary in his lifetime with any obvious sense of human decency.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Shipmate
    Dafyd wrote: »
    There's a history. Michael Dummett, in his On Immigration and Refugees, written in the describes Roy Jenkins as the only Home Secretary in his lifetime with any obvious sense of human decency.

    Jenkins is one of the few who come out with any credit from that article.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    If we were still in the EU we’d be in Germany now visiting my son.

    Is this a Brexit thing or a corona thing?

    All EU citizens are now allowed to visit Germany. Not us, we are a ‘third country’. Brexit is at fault.

    😡😢
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    Doesn't the UK government still have a ban on foreign travel?
  • RicardusRicardus Shipmate
    Meanwhile, up in Glasgow, local residents have succeeded in staving off deportation (for the time being) of some refugees - in Nicola Sturgeon's own constituency, no less. She is very pleased!
    https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/13/glasgow-residents-surround-and-block-immigration-van-from-leaving-street

    Again, nothing to do directly with Brexit, but an indication as to how low and evil the English Home Office has become...

    Not become, at least not recently. The Home Office has been a festering shit bucket for at least a couple of decades now. The Guardian's Long Read on the subject makes interesting and depressing reading:
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/13/cruel-paranoid-failing-priti-patel-inside-the-home-office
    It confirms what most of us long suspected, that the Home Office is dedicated to offering up the lives of refugees to placate the gods of our far right press.

    I've commented before that on immigration Theresa May seemed to me somewhere to the right of Donald Trump, the only difference being she was fractionally politer.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited May 14
    Dave W wrote: »
    Doesn't the UK government still have a ban on foreign travel?

    It does, but we have a get-in clause, we are going to look at property.

    “ Other reasonable excuses
    There are further reasonable excuses, for example:
    ....<snip ...
    to carry out activities related to buying, selling, letting or renting a residential property
    ...<snip> ...
    Recommended evidence: proof of contract, court decision and letter or appointment details from estate agent.”
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    We learn that Boris the Bold wishes to conclude a wonderful trade deal with Australia to enable us to bring supplies of cheap beef and lamb half-way round the globe by ship, (shipping being a high emitter of CO2) and sold here on the same terms as EU products. This will, in fact, have a minimal effect on our trade volumes, but will enable US and South American food exporters to claim the same term in future deals. British farmers are to be offered up in the long term, it seems, on the altar of the Great British Global Opportunities we have heard so much about. Ironically, such an agreement would add point to the checks on foodstuffs from Britain entering the EU Customs area against which Lord Frost is currently inveighing.
    This will certainly affect me if Welsh lamb is no longer available in our shops.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Shipmate
    I notice that Tim Martin is calling for higher EU immigration so he can get cheap bar staff:

    (Telegraph UK) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/06/01/wetherspoons-boss-calls-eu-migration-tackle-bar-staff-shortage/

    Presumably we can look forward to infighting as each minister tries to ensure that the areas they administer get part of the quota.
  • The same Tim Martin (Daily Mirror link from January 2019, sorry) who turned everything he said into a pro-Brexit rant from 2016 til now? Oh dear! What a pity! Perhaps he needs to train some unemployed Brits and put his money and his mouth behind dealing with the results of his Brexit campaigning.
  • Doc TorDoc Tor Admin
    If he wants bar staff, he'll simply have to raise wages high enough to attract them. That's how it works, right?
  • AnselminaAnselmina Shipmate
    I have an elderly relative back in Norn Irn who has been told categorically by the company involved, that since Brexit, her Wiltshire Farm Foods meals can no longer provide her with many of her favourites. Fish seems to be in especial short or non-supply. Another relative who used Wiltshire has stopped using them for the time being as so many of his choices are 'no longer available' in Ulster because the ingredients either can't be obtained easily enough or at all, whether from the UK mainland or from the EU. Perhaps things will get sorted in time. It probably seems small beer to the able and the affluent, but until it does get sorted it will make something of a negative difference to some people's lives.
  • RicardusRicardus Shipmate
    edited June 2
    I notice that Tim Martin is calling for higher EU immigration so he can get cheap bar staff:

    (Telegraph UK) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/06/01/wetherspoons-boss-calls-eu-migration-tackle-bar-staff-shortage/

    Presumably we can look forward to infighting as each minister tries to ensure that the areas they administer get part of the quota.

    I notice he's specifically suggesting that 'countries situated geographically closer to the UK could be given preferential treatment'. Cos obviously Nordic-Aryans and Mediterranean-Aryans are good, but Slavs and Romanians cramp our Lebensraum.

    (Yes, I know Godwin's law and all that, but what reason for preferring (say) Dutch immigrant chefs over Polish immigrant chefs exists that isn't basically Nazi?)
  • Ricardus wrote: »
    I notice that Tim Martin is calling for higher EU immigration so he can get cheap bar staff:

    (Telegraph UK) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/06/01/wetherspoons-boss-calls-eu-migration-tackle-bar-staff-shortage/

    Presumably we can look forward to infighting as each minister tries to ensure that the areas they administer get part of the quota.

    I notice he's specifically suggesting that 'countries situated geographically closer to the UK could be given preferential treatment'. Cos obviously Nordic-Aryans and Mediterranean-Aryans are good, but Slavs and Romanians cramp our Lebensraum.

    (Yes, I know Godwin's law and all that, but what reason for preferring (say) Dutch immigrant chefs over Polish immigrant chefs exists that isn't basically Nazi?)

    There's an economic argument that the differences in costs of living in the UK and its near neighbours vs Poland, Romania or Bulgaria allow citizens of the latter to come here for a few years, live four to a room, undercutting wages and saving like mad to go home and buy a house or start a business. Such a scheme wouldn't make enough money to buy or set up shop in the Netherlands, it only works because of lower costs in poorer EU member states.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Shipmate
    Ricardus wrote: »
    I notice that Tim Martin is calling for higher EU immigration so he can get cheap bar staff:

    (Telegraph UK) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/06/01/wetherspoons-boss-calls-eu-migration-tackle-bar-staff-shortage/

    Presumably we can look forward to infighting as each minister tries to ensure that the areas they administer get part of the quota.

    I notice he's specifically suggesting that 'countries situated geographically closer to the UK could be given preferential treatment'. Cos obviously Nordic-Aryans and Mediterranean-Aryans are good, but Slavs and Romanians cramp our Lebensraum.

    (Yes, I know Godwin's law and all that, but what reason for preferring (say) Dutch immigrant chefs over Polish immigrant chefs exists that isn't basically Nazi?)

    There's an economic argument that the differences in costs of living in the UK and its near neighbours vs Poland, Romania or Bulgaria allow citizens of the latter to come here for a few years, live four to a room, undercutting wages and saving like mad to go home and buy a house or start a business. Such a scheme wouldn't make enough money to buy or set up shop in the Netherlands, it only works because of lower costs in poorer EU member states.

    Yeah, though that runs Martin's argument in reverse (from what I can tell from the article)
  • RicardusRicardus Shipmate
    Yeah, if Mr Martin doesn't want Slavs and Romanians undercutting wages, he could always try not cutting wages. Wages are a thing he is directly in control of.
  • quetzalcoatlquetzalcoatl Shipmate
    There is also chatter among journos about labour shortages and wage rises. One obvious cause in the UK, is Brexit, since over one million EU workers have gone home. However, there are claims that this is happening globally. Not being an economist, it's puzzling. What gives?
  • Could the coronavirus pandemic perhaps be making people feel that - whatever happens, and no matter how hard it might be to actually get there - home is the best place?
  • quetzalcoatlquetzalcoatl Shipmate
    Could the coronavirus pandemic perhaps be making people feel that - whatever happens, and no matter how hard it might be to actually get there - home is the best place?

    Yes, I thought of the pandemic shrinking the labour market, but it seems unlikely. But some countries have a shrinking population.
  • Populations which are also ageing, as well as shrinking, thus reducing the potential labour force even further?
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited June 6
    Also, just possibly, a large additional amount of people dying might effect the labour market.
  • Yes.

    I didn't think of that...
    :grimace:
  • jay_emmjay_emm Shipmate
    edited June 6
    Could the coronavirus pandemic perhaps be making people feel that - whatever happens, and no matter how hard it might be to actually get there - home is the best place?

    Yes, I thought of the pandemic shrinking the labour market, but it seems unlikely. But some countries have a shrinking population.
    I'd imagine a fair few (UK) 60-70 year olds decided this was the time to retire. Many a year or two earlier than they might have.

    You have the ones removed from the labour force directly by death or injury (not many, maybe, but of the young disproportionately of the essential workers.

    Related to both of these in a number of countries, you have a number of people who've inherited early

    I do wonder if savings relating to working from home might free up the need for people to have second jobs. The massive one being childcare, (I guess that should show up). But also the student jobs (especially as I bet universities and schools will be a bit funny about them).

    [ETA] and then you have people being in the right places, and the right skillsets for the vacancies.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    And possibly the people who have decided that life is too short to work for shit employers - and looked at how companies treated their employees during the pandemic before deciding whether to apply for a job with them.
  • Alas, I suspect that too many people who would prefer not to work for shit employers simply have to carry on in order to pay the rent, feed the kids etc. etc.
    :disappointed:
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    We are,apparently, heading for a Sausage War because the EU is likely to prevent sausages made in Britain entering Northern Ireland, as that is part of the EU for trade purposes. Where is Jim Hacker wwhen you need him?
    Each side accuses the other of intransigence, of course. My hunch is that nothing will be solved while Lord Frost remains in post, but Boris needs him to keep the Brexiteers happy.
  • George Eustice, a *government minister* has today described the possible Sausage War as *bonkers*.

    Well, he of all people should know bonkers when he comes across it...
  • BTW, here's a Guardian article about the possible problem:

    https://theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/08/tensions-rise-over-eu-trade-row-with-uk-over-sausage-sales

    As @Eirenist says, with Frost on our side, nothing much will be resolved any time soon...
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Shipmate
    Eirenist wrote: »
    We are,apparently, heading for a Sausage War because the EU is likely to prevent sausages made in Britain entering Northern Ireland, as that is part of the EU for trade purposes. Where is Jim Hacker wwhen you need him?
    Each side accuses the other of intransigence, of course. My hunch is that nothing will be solved while Lord Frost remains in post, but Boris needs him to keep the Brexiteers happy.

    This has been on the cards for a bit: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55479354 as the guardian article states, imports of raw sausages to NI were covered by a grace period - to give businesses a chance to adjust - until the end of June.

    Frost is adopting his normal stance of performative ignorance/outrage.


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