RdrEmCofE, chill

245

Comments

  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited July 2018
    RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    You surely don't imagine that I was attacking @LeRoc.
    Do you have another explanation for this post?
  • RdrEmCofERdrEmCofE Shipmate
    edited July 2018
    Eutychus wrote: »
    RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    You surely don't imagine that I was attacking @LeRoc.
    Do you have another explanation for this post?

    OK so its poorly worded. I should have said "Ahh. but that is [claimed in here to be] just whataboutery when you [one] points that out to someone who is claiming you are a racist."

    [It is a ] Neat get out, preserving one's [their] sense of self righteous superiority.

    I actually totally agree with @LeRoc s statement.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    edited July 2018
    RdrEmCofE - stop a second. What are you hoping for here? What is the purpose of all your posts?

    Are you trying to vindicate yourself, because you want people to agree you’re a nice guy, and didn’t do anything wrong? And maybe to pull a few insults at the people you’re angry with? To gain personal standing in the Ship?

    Or are you wanting an objective discussion about political correctness, about why it was okay to call your friend Darkie back in the day, and how you think the fact you can’t use that expression now is political correctness gone mad, and you think it’s important for this to be discussed and both sides to be heard?

    Is it about you or the issue?

    If it’s about the issue, maybe it would be more appropriate in Purgatory, because there people will discuss and it won’t be about you personally. I would discuss it there.

    If it’s about your ego/standing/dignity/etc., I suspect you’re more likely to prove yourself by how you act and treat people in general, rather than trying to convince everyone by argument.

  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    That right there suggests that deep down you think there might be a problem.

    More than that, I know we all do have a problem. That's why hypocrisy offends me, and we are usually most offended by what we have trumps in ourselves. Its called projection. It's that which Jesus implies Here.

    So, OK calling someone to hell is just starting a thread about them? Like "Russ the Bigot"?

    Are you really saying that it’s OK for you to (jokingly?) use racist names just because none of us is perfect when it comes to racism?

    What do you think hypocrisy is?

    You insult trans people and then black people, then you come on here and say hypocrisy offends you?

    I agree with others above. You sound like two different people to me. One preaches Jesus and the other is making transphobic and racist remarks casually and with no care or concern - then justifys those remarks by calling the others hypocrites.





  • RdrEmCofERdrEmCofE Shipmate
    fineline wrote: »
    RdrEmCofE - stop a second. What are you hoping for here? What is the purpose of all your posts?

    Are you trying to vindicate yourself, because you want people to agree you’re a nice guy, and didn’t do anything wrong? And maybe to pull a few insults at the people you’re angry with? To gain personal standing in the Ship?

    Or are you wanting an objective discussion about political correctness, about why it was okay to call your friend Darkie back in the day, and how you think the fact you can’t jse that expression now is political correctness gone mad, and you think it’s important for this to be discussed and both sides to be heard?

    Is it about you or the issue?

    If it’s about the issue, maybe it would be more appropriate in Purgatory, because there people will discuss and it won’t be about you personally. I would discuss it there.

    If it’s about your ego/standing/dignity/etc., I suspect you’re more likely to prove yourself by how you act and treat people in general, rather than trying to convince everyone by argument.

    Yep, your'e right. I'm probably in the wrong forum here for discussion. It seems not to happen. Yours is the first hint I have had that someone has been willing to actually try to find out what I actually do think, rather than telling me I'm just a stupid racist asshole, dick head and an obnoxious worm.

    No wonder its called Hell.

    No one except you has asked me, what I actually think. They were all too busy assuming they knew and joining the feeding frenzy of telling me how crass I am, as evidenced by how crass my statements had been, (apart from @Curiosity killed cat who was politeness personified).

    I shall take your advice, and stick to Purgatory in future. Thanks.

  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    OK so its poorly worded. I should have said (...)
    I still don't understand (no, don't bother trying).

  • RdrEmCofE wrote: »

    I shall take your advice, and stick to Purgatory in future. Thanks.

    That's one of the most sensible things you've said on this, or any other, thread.
    :grin:

    IJ

  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    And being so quick to pile in and make assumptions about the 'motive'
    Making the connection between the two similar slurs as you used is less making an assumption than it is a reasonable conclusion.
    I tend to wonder if the questioner understands that we all are, including the questioner themselves, racist.
    No. not everyone is racist. Everyone has bias/predjudice, but not everyone has that towards race. Many more than realise, yes. Still not an excuse for saying racist things nor ingoring it being pointed out.
    Racism is not something that can be shaken off like a dog shakes off fleas.
    If you realise you have a problem, the proper approach is caution, not to bite at everyone else when you trip up.
    I assure you was not offended by friends, neighbors and drinking companions he knew, greeting him by his nick name or referring to him as 'Darkie'.
    You cannot assure anyone of this, for the reasons previously given.

    RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    Yours is the first hint I have had that someone has been willing to actually try to find out what I actually do think, rather than telling me I'm just a stupid racist asshole, dick head and an obnoxious worm.
    Walks like a duck? Check. Talks like a duck? Check Acts like a rascist, asshole, dick head obnoxious worm? Check. It isn't on everyone else to doubt you are what you present. Not when it is the obvious conclusion and you go 'round snapping at everyone like a rabid Pekinese when they notice.
  • @RdrEmCofE Hell is where disputes are resolved. It's not really a discussion forum or a place to debate the issues. It's where Shipmates bring posts that are offensive or upsetting and to resolve that problem away from the discussion boards.

    If the issue is something to do with hosting or the way the boards work, that is discussed in the Styx. For something like the use of words over time, that would normally be discussed in Purgatory, but the current Styx thread on Transphobia has meant that the use of words that are perceived as sexist / racist / homophobic / transphobic or anything that could be described as hate speech is currently a live hosting/admin issue and being debated both on the public boards and private host and admin board.

    Hell is the only place on the Ship that Shipmates are allowed to be personally abusive or to call another Shipmate on their behaviour. This means that Shipmates can and do use Hell for abusive comments. I am absolutely certain that @LeRoc was being sarcastic with his comment about not calling people for racism.

    And another word to the wise, Russ has a lot of history on the Ship, both on the New Ship™ and the Old Ship™. He has had several Hell threads with his name on and many of us, including me, have attempted to explain to him why his debating technique and some of his views could be problematic, to no avail. I started that thread to flag that Russ had been unnecessarily inflammatory on the Transgender thread and also got in a few digs about the Social-Progressive Mindset thread, because it had been annoying, but not annoying enough to call him to Hell on its own.
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    I am absolutely certain that @LeRoc was being sarcastic with his comment about not calling people for racism.
    You know me too well :smile:

  • RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    After suggesting "Let's" drop the point and agree" @Mousethief then jst can't resist having one last dig, then boast about it, excusing himself, in another thread.
    Dear fuckwit: it was LeRoc who suggested dropping the point, not I.

    If you really think I'm a teaser, why do you keep responding? Tell me what drug I have, that I may use it on others. Dipfuck.
  • RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    I agree with and accept your point about the motives behind the second post, which were provocative but jocular. I admit that.
    Your second post completely obliterated your first -- it showed it to be shallow pretense. It showed you didn't take apologizing for that kind of fault seriously.
  • RdrEmCofERdrEmCofE Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    That right there suggests that deep down you think there might be a problem.

    More than that, I know we all do have a problem. That's why hypocrisy offends me, and we are usually most offended by what we have trumps in ourselves. Its called projection. It's that which Jesus implies Here.

    So, OK calling someone to hell is just starting a thread about them? Like "Russ the Bigot"?

    Are you really saying that it’s OK for you to (jokingly?) use racist names just because none of us is perfect when it comes to racism?

    What do you think hypocrisy is?

    You insult trans people and then black people, then you come on here and say hypocrisy offends you?

    I agree with others above. You sound like two different people to me. One preaches Jesus and the other is making transphobic and racist remarks casually and with no care or concern - then justifys those remarks by calling the others hypocrites.
    Are you really saying that it’s OK for you to (jokingly?) use racist names just because none of us is perfect when it comes to racism?

    No I'm not. That is your idea, not mine.
    What do you think hypocrisy is?

    Is that a genuine question? Or are you implying that I don't know?

    hypocrisy: Definition.

    Correction, some trans people may have been offended by a badly chosen word that I thoughtlessly used, but they would be quite wrong to assume that mistake was deliberately intended to upset them and even more unjustified in accusing me of deliberately offending them. Which incidentally no one has, so your crusading on their behalf is not necessary.
    You insult trans people and then black people, then you come on here and say hypocrisy offends you?

    I referred to a person whom I know to have been nick named 'Darkie' Marshall. You are wrong to conflate that into a vicious racist attack upon all black people. It was not. What you are justified to point out is that my statement might cause offense, which I have now to admit may be true since I have no idea who may read it, (but here comes a new word to me), whatifery! That is what I will almost certainly be accused of if I point out that Jesus Christ himself did not get through life on earth without insulting anyone, upsetting anyone or inadvertently being misunderstood by anyone and I can't find a single place in scripture where he apologized to any of them. I have offered my apologies for my original faux pas, and eaten humble pie over my subsequent responses to the disapprobation I have received resulting from my initial crass mistake. If you choose to be skeptical about my sincerity then that's just a shame, but it is not my shame.

    For those who have read this far, and I doubt that is many, I'm sure some, even all of you will see this all as me self justifying myself. I don't know what can be done about that? It's your opinion. Deal with it. I can't do anything about you being wrong and if you believe I haven't done anything about me being wrong, you're wrong.

  • RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    For those who have read this far, and I doubt that is many, I'm sure some, even all of you will see this all as me self justifying myself. I don't know what can be done about that? It's your opinion. Deal with it.
    Dig, dig, dig, dig.
  • RdrEmCofERdrEmCofE Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    For those who have read this far, and I doubt that is many, I'm sure some, even all of you will see this all as me self justifying myself. I don't know what can be done about that? It's your opinion. Deal with it.
    Dig, dig, dig, dig.

    Back again? No Comment.
  • RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    Back again? No Comment.
    Liar. Hypocrite.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited July 2018
    RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    Jesus Christ himself did not get through life on earth without insulting anyone, upsetting anyone or inadvertently being misunderstood by anyone and I can't find a single place in scripture where he apologized to any of them.
    Clue: you are not Jesus.
    I have offered my apologies for my original faux pas, and eaten humble pie over my subsequent responses to the disapprobation I have received resulting from my initial crass mistake.
    No you haven't. You apologised and then immediately went on to undo your apology. The reason we're all still here is because you didn't apologise and shut up, and that just about everything you've posted since here in Hell, despite free and constructive advice amidst the disapprobation poured on you, is painting a worse and worse picture of you.
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    I referred to a person whom I know to have been nick named 'Darkie' Marshall. You are wrong to conflate that into a vicious racist attack upon all black people. It was not.
    It is. Regardless of how that individual might have felt about it, it is an insult towards all black people.
    What you are justified to point out is that my statement might cause offense, which I have now to admit may be true since I have no idea who may read it, (but here comes a new word to me), whatifery!
    "How was I supposed to know that darkies might be on the web using an open forum?"
    If you choose to be skeptical about my sincerity then that's just a shame, but it is not my shame.
    Again, you pugnacious Pomeranian, your response doesn't engender sincerity.
    For those who have read this far, and I doubt that is many, I'm sure some, even all of you will see this all as me self justifying myself.
    Pretty piss poor attempts is what they are.
    I don't know what can be done about that?
    Really?
    • Start by accepting that you fucked up again. And again. And again.
    • Apologise and Shut The Fuck Up.
    • Get better at notpologies.

  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    Ooooh, I've just thought of a fun game thought experiment.

    WHAT IF (read: hypothetically): I informed @RdrEmCofE that xyr amusing new nickname was "fuckface", AND made it clear (without having anything xe could prove) that if xe complained in any way that xe would immediately be permanently banned. How do we think xe would respond if someone blithely asked xem if they were at all offended by the "fuckface" nickname?
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    I'm sure that's very clever RooK, but I'm too thick to understand it.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    I think I understand it - at least, that is exactly how it works if you are the one minority-group person in a community of the majority-group people, and they find it amusing to have pet names for your kind, and it bothers you, but you want/need to stay in their group and be accepted by them, and you know that expressing offence will incur disapproval and rejection.
  • RdrEmCofERdrEmCofE Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    For those who have read this far, and I doubt that is many, I'm sure some, even all of you will see this all as me self justifying myself. I don't know what can be done about that? It's your opinion. Deal with it.
    Dig, dig, dig, dig.

    Back again? No Comment.
    Eutychus wrote: »
    RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    Jesus Christ himself did not get through life on earth without insulting anyone, upsetting anyone or inadvertently being misunderstood by anyone and I can't find a single place in scripture where he apologized to any of them.
    Clue: you are not Jesus.
    I have offered my apologies for my original faux pas, and eaten humble pie over my subsequent responses to the disapprobation I have received resulting from my initial crass mistake.
    No you haven't. You apologized and then immediately went on to undo your apology. The reason we're all still here is because you didn't apologise and shut up, and that just about everything you've posted since here in Hell, despite free and constructive advice amidst the disapprobation poured on you, is painting a worse and worse picture of you.

    When it comes to pictures, I suppose your own and everyone else's behavior, is exemplary. Who is holding your coats while you throw the stones and focus your attention on me?

    So I need to be informed by you I am not Jesus. (False inference), I have been weighed in your balance and found wanting. Typical: never even implied that I was, misquote me, easy jibe, righteous, self satisfied superiority, abuse of authority, its all there.

    Not Jesus? I know, neither are any of you! but you should at least behave a bit like him, I apologized, (and then fucked up and since admitted it), you declare me a liar with a God complex. And you are the nice person here. And any objection or appeal is seen as proof of my guilt and evidence of my arrogance.

    Projection!
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    edited July 2018
    Sigh.

    First they offend
    Then they do a non-apology
    Then they say something even more stupid
    Then they blame everyone else.
  • RdrEmCofERdrEmCofE Shipmate
    edited July 2018
    RooK wrote: »
    Ooooh, I've just thought of a fun game thought experiment.

    WHAT IF (read: hypothetically): I informed @RdrEmCofE that xyr amusing new nickname was "fuckface", AND made it clear (without having anything xe could prove) that if xe complained in any way that xe would immediately be permanently banned. How do we think xe would respond if someone blithely asked xem if they were at all offended by the "fuckface" nickname?

    You are as clever as a spoon in a circus!

    As a Host you are supposed to be above toying with shipmates and deliberately provoking them into committing kickable offenses yourself. Thus abusing your hostly power. (You have done it to me before on the old ship). I am not a toy for some control freak to play with like a fish on a hook. Go and 'play' elsewhere your foolish games.

    Here

    And

    Here

  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    edited July 2018
    Dude, seriously, stop digging.

    Don't diss the Admin when they are posting without tags.

    This is like Shipmate 101
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    @RdrEmCofE - I believe (and will be corrected if wrong) that RooK’s comment is not literally calling you a fuckface, but trying to explain to you why a black person given the nickname Darkie might say they were fine with it even if they weren’t. Trying to get you to put yourself in that man’s place and imagine. It’s a bit of a cryptic comment.

    (You may have already understood this, in which case disregard my comment, but I wasn’t sure, because your response didn’t indicate it.)
  • RdrEmCofERdrEmCofE Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    RdrEmCofE wrote: »
    Back again? No Comment.
    Liar. Hypocrite.

    Can't give up can you!
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    I don't remember a hellcall being this painful in a very long time.
  • RdrEmCofERdrEmCofE Shipmate
    fineline wrote: »
    @RdrEmCofE - I believe (and will be corrected if wrong) that RooK’s comment is not literally calling you a fuckface, but trying to explain to you why a black person given the nickname Darkie might say they were fine with it even if they weren’t. Trying to get you to put yourself in that man’s place and imagine. It’s a bit of a cryptic comment.

    (You may have already understood this, in which case disregard my comment, but I wasn’t sure, because your response didn’t indicate it.)

    I'm not bothered about whatever silly game thought experiment, Rook wants to indulge himself in to impress us with his prowess. I object to him baiting me, playing me like a fish and treating me like one of his playthings.

    See the links to his other posts and my replies to them.
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    Oh well. The most likely explanation seems to be that he's a racist, too stupid to realise it and so proud that he brings it up in conversation to score points in arguments.

    The lack of self-awareness and embarrassment tells us all we need to know.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    @RdrEmCofE

    I did see them. I’ve been following the entire thread and many of the preceding threads. I don’t interpret RooK the way you do, though I did when I was new here. I really don’t think he’s simply involved in a game of bullying you, but I get that to you it seems that way.

    I think you are having difficulty understanding why people are responding to you the way they are. Which is why I have kept posting here to you.

    But I’m also seeing that you are choosing to keep fanning flames here, rather than take your debate to Purgatory. So I don’t really know what else to say. other than to redirect you to LeRoc’s initial advice in this thread, that you take three day’s break from the Ship. It’s wise advice, and for your sake. But up to you if you take it or not.

  • No, actually I don't think @RdrEmCofE is being deliberately awkward, more embarrassed, not sure how to get out of this situation when he has admitted he boobed, but is now dealing with what feels like a dog pile when he's never been to Hell before.

    It's awkward because most people who are called to Hell have some idea what is going on, they realise they can ignore the peanut gallery's jibes and goads, just apologise, leave and let the Hell thread die.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    I agree, Curiosity, I didn’t mean he was being deliberately awkward. I mean he was choosing to keep posting here, and that the posting was fanning flames, but I don’t think that is deliberate awkwardness. I mean he is worked up and feeling the impulse to reply to everything people are saying, rather than going to Purgatory. And other people are deliberately baiting him - Mousethief, it looks to me that you have figured out the things that wind this guy up and you keep saying them for fun. Don’t. It isn’t helping anything.
  • @fineline - sorry, I was responding to @mr cheesy and cross posted with you.

    @RdrEmCofE - I realised afterwards that I had used some Ship slang and that you possibly wouldn't understand. Most Hell threads attract a number of people who join in the feeding frenzy for fun, usually known as the peanut gallery. And lots of people joining in a Hell thread attacking the Shipmate who has been called to Hell is called a dogpile. Occasionally the Hellions will dogpile the Shipmate who made the Hell call - I've been at the bottom of one of those dogpiles and know it's not much fun. It was very little consolation to see the same person called for the same reason a few months later and be banned for it

    If you had been reading Hell regularly since you joined the Ship you would recognise some of the normal transactions.

    And Hell is also for rants about external issues, not just Ship business.
  • RdrEmCofERdrEmCofE Shipmate
    @fineline - sorry, I was responding to @mr cheesy and cross posted with you.

    @RdrEmCofE - I realised afterwards that I had used some Ship slang and that you possibly wouldn't understand. Most Hell threads attract a number of people who join in the feeding frenzy for fun, usually known as the peanut gallery. And lots of people joining in a Hell thread attacking the Shipmate who has been called to Hell is called a dogpile. Occasionally the Hellions will dogpile the Shipmate who made the Hell call - I've been at the bottom of one of those dogpiles and know it's not much fun. It was very little consolation to see the same person called for the same reason a few months later and be banned for it

    If you had been reading Hell regularly since you joined the Ship you would recognise some of the normal transactions.

    And Hell is also for rants about external issues, not just Ship business.

    Thank you for this. It is much appreciated. Thanks for the jargon explanations too. What is someone as nice as you doing here? :smile: I am an infrequent visitor here and will probably continue in that vein. Nice to have met you. See you perhaps in Purg.
  • RdrEmCofERdrEmCofE Shipmate
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    Oh well. The most likely explanation seems to be that he's a racist, too stupid to realise it and so proud that he brings it up in conversation to score points in arguments.

    The lack of self-awareness and embarrassment tells us all we need to know.

    Not worth a comment.
  • He said, commenting...
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    No, actually I don't think @RdrEmCofE is being deliberately awkward, more embarrassed, not sure how to get out of this situation when he has admitted he boobed, but is now dealing with what feels like a dog pile when he's never been to Hell before.

    It's awkward because most people who are called to Hell have some idea what is going on, they realise they can ignore the peanut gallery's jibes and goads, just apologise, leave and let the Hell thread die.

    I don't think this is actually what happened. The call was fair and seemed to be being quickly resolved until the big oaf decided to continue posting - at first drivel and then increasingly stupid and convoluted self justifications.

    If he had just shut up at any stage this would have gone no further. Instead he just continued to make it worse.
  • fineline wrote: »
    Mousethief, it looks to me that you have figured out the things that wind this guy up and you keep saying them for fun. Don’t. It isn’t helping anything.
    fineline, you're an excellent person. For your sake I will stop.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Thanks, Mousethief.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    @fineline said -
    But I’m also seeing that you are choosing to keep fanning flames here, rather than take your debate to Purgatory.

    Yes.

    And that’s the problem. @RdrEmCofE apologised, then fanned the flames, then fanned them further. Now he keeps popping back with ‘no comment’ as if this somehow explains his position.

    The problem has been explained in kind, not so kind, and proper ‘ ‘wind up’ terms.

    Yet he still doesn’t get it does he? His name is now winding me up. How does a person get the title Reverend Doctor whilst knowing so little about people?
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Everyone’s different, with different difficulties and blind spots. And different strengths too. And actually, he is back in Purgatory now, posting there.
  • @Boogie - I am pretty sure that name is Reader M CoE, condensed - nothing to do with the name you're projecting. A Reader is a lay leader of the Church of England, often with a preaching interest (a number of other shipmates are Readers).

    And just why are you deciding to fan the flames that @fineline and I have been working so hard to calm down?

    I can think of lots of reasons why someone might not get it, including feeling attacked and not really understanding why.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    His name is now winding me up. How does a person get the title Reverend Doctor whilst knowing so little about people?
    Well he certainly can't blame it on the sunshine, the moonlight, the good times...

  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited July 2018
    Sorry CK - I applaud you and fineline for trying to calm the flames down.

    I will back off now :smile:
  • /pedant alert/

    I think RdrEmCofE stands for 'Reader Emeritus Church of England, which would be consonant with his age (after 70, Readers can have 'Permission To Officiate', which now and then results in the 'Emeritus' title being bestowed, presumably by a grateful parish or Diocese).

    He may, for all I know, of course, also be a Reverend Doctor! As with any personal information revealed on a public board, we have to take what is said 'on trust' unless we know the truth about the person concerned IRL.

    IJ
  • I'd like to point out to RdrEm that they're in no way obligated to explain their Shipname in any way shape or form, and to the rest of you, knock it off. Wheedling personal details from a shipmate is deeply frowned upon.

    DT
    HH
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited July 2018
    Hostly Admonition duly noted - it was certainly not my intention to prise out any personal details, and discretion would (as always) have been the better part of trying clear up a point of pedantry....

    BTW, I certainly don't know him IRL.

    IJ
  • Curiosity killedCuriosity killed Shipmate
    edited July 2018
    OK, so now I'm sorry I was so helpful, having seen the latest Purgatory thread on nicknames developing quite the way it has.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    I’m kind of thinking this too.
This discussion has been closed.