Gamma "Fucking clever than yow" Gamaliel - over here...

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Comments

  • KarlLB wrote: »
    metal fans are not your punchbag.
    That would be the emos
  • balaambalaam Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    metal fans are not your punchbag.
    That would be the emos

    Not really, the emos are too busy punching themselves to notice.
  • Yes, I was winding you up, FFS.

    FWIW, Zeppelin I can deal with, early Sabbath even. Some metal is a bit of a laff and doesn't take itself too seriously. The Ace of Spades, Ace of Spades. Fine. Good laugh.

    But Uriah Heep, Judas Priest, bleedin' Metallica Finnish f'kin' Metal Mass. No, sorry ...

    Shit is shit is shit. There's no subjectivity when it comes to shit.

    I'm not an opera fan but opera isn't shit. I'm not a rap fan but rap isn't shit.

    Most Metal is shit. Fucking shit. It's sexist. It's macho. It's posturing. It's puerile. It's shit.

    End of.



  • Emo is shit.
  • Fuck off.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Well at least shut the fuck up about it. I don't appreciate the winding up, and there are words for people who persist in winding other people up when those other people have said they don't appreciate it.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    He's fucking doing it a fucking gain in Eccles. Look, Gam, you don't like metal, I get that, but your constant slagging it off as if your subjective tastes were an objective assessment is a way of expressing your sneering sense of superiority over its fans. That's fucking obvious. Take it and stuff it. I know life is shit for you at the moment but metal fans are not your punchbag.

    Link?

    https://forums.shipoffools.com/discussion/996/metal-as-in-heavy-masses

    Would be an over-reaction if Gam didn't have form (as in this Hell thead is an existing rather than new one) for banging on about how superior and more mature he is than those whose music taste he doesn't share and how ridiculous they are for liking what they like.
  • Yes, I was winding you up, FFS.
    Your jerkish propensity to abuse others' discussions across multiple boards, despite multiple complaints, makes your multiple apologies look rather hollow.
  • Fair call.

    Shit still smells though.

    But yeah ... The tropes of Tolkein is shit because there are too many fucking elves and metal is shit because people ought to know better must get wearing.

    So fair call.
  • Stop.dragging.your.pet.peeves.into.every.thread.on.music.

    And

    Stop.deliberately.winding.up.people.when.asked.to.stop.

    Is it really so hard to understand?
  • Fair call.

    Shit still smells though.

    Fuck off.
  • Thanks Mousethief.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Stop.dragging.your.pet.peeves.into.every.thread.on.music.

    And

    Stop.deliberately.winding.up.people.when.asked.to.stop.

    Is it really so hard to understand?

    Apparently it's fucking rocket science for Gamma.
  • I just stumbled across the eccles thread in question, and immediately knew why GG was back at the top of the Hell Hit Parade. Thus I say: crawl back under your bridge you phallic resident of Wimbledon Common.

    Also: lay off the illustrious Mr Loaf before he jumps up and down on you.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    Gamma: Hint- two little words "I think metal is shit" not "Metal is shit". Full stop, since all you can do with the subject is hammer your theme. If you had written your post more like "As many shipmates know I really don't like metal, but more to the point, other than it being in a style popular in Finland, I wondered what it actually added to the party. If they're using standard Lutheran hymns only performed to a metal riff, then what's the point?" you'd be actually moving the discussion along rather than derailing it.
  • Sure, I get that, Lyda and would like to think that's the way I've been posting on the thread since the Hell Call.

    For instance, I've acknowledged that there's a lot of snobbery against Metal and that if you were to transcribe a heavy metal guitar solo onto a different instrument then it may prove very impressive as a piece of technical virtuosity.

    More than happy to concede that.

    By repeatedly typing, 'Metal is shit' rather than 'I think Metal is shit' I was joffing and playing a line. It's the sort of thing I do with my brother and close friends but, as I ought to be able to see by now, it ain't the way to proceed here with a bunch of strangers.

    As it happens, I don't think that bands like Led Zeppelin are shit.

    Now I've put the record straight on that one ...

    Illustrious Mr Loaf my arse ...

    ;)
  • Goodness me. After returning to the ship after a few years, a couple of observations.

    Firstly, these Hell Call threads seem to have degenerated into semi-obligatory feedback loop of cartoon nastiness.

    Secondly, certain old hands seem to be much more angry, much less thoughtful and quite a lot less funny.

    It’s still a great discussion board but it seems to have ossified a bit.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    For every time there is a season. A time to let it pass and a time to get pissed off. A time to think and a time to vent. A time to joke and a time to stop putting up with all the bullshit.

    Guess which time this is?
  • By repeatedly typing, 'Metal is shit' rather than 'I think Metal is shit' I was joffing and playing a line. It's the sort of thing I do with my brother and close friends but, as I ought to be able to see by now, it ain't the way to proceed here with a bunch of strangers.
    Indeed, it's not the way to proceed with people who a) don't know you as well as your close friends and family and b) aren't in the same room where everyone can see the body language of how things are said and heard. You'll notice an official warning on the thread in Ecclesiantics, in the context of the people who read and post on these boards your "joffing and playing a line" comes across as trolling and being a jerk.

    Alan
    Ship of Fools Admin
  • Given that you've already gotten stick for doing EXACTLY THE SAME FUCKING THING with Prog, one might think you had learned your lesson. And here you are back again, thinking that you're God's gift to music criticism. I don't even like metal, and I think you need to knock it off. There is no such thing as objective art criticism. Remember the words of St. Clive of Oxford, here paraphrased: if there is just one person who thinks it's the bees' knees, and plays it over and over, then let no other man say it's shit. Clearly there is something there that the negative critic isn't seeing, and the blind shouldn't be telling the sighted what things look like. (No offense, SusanDoris).
  • Hey, c'mon. I shouldn't have joffed. I get that. I have since conceded that a heavy metal guitar solo, for instance, involves a considerable degree of technical ability.

    Of course I know that there's no such thing as objective artistic criticism.

    Give me some credit.

    Otherwise, fair points.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    For every time there is a season. A time to let it pass and a time to get pissed off. A time to think and a time to vent. A time to joke and a time to stop putting up with all the bullshit.

    Guess which time this is?

    Sure. Here's my arse. Kick it.

    Thanks.

    Let's move on.

    I promise I won't wind you up in future. Yes, I know I've said that before ...
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    Of course I know that there's no such thing as objective artistic criticism.

    Then why did you say there was?
    Shit is shit is shit. There's no subjectivity when it comes to shit.
    Give me some credit.

    Earn it, mate.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    Give me some credit.
    Your credit expired when you repeat offended. Then you repeat offended after being asked to stop, and couldn't resist repeat offending again even as you promised to knock it off.

    The problem is not your intolerance of others' musical tastes, your problem is your basic lack of respect for fellow Shipmates.

  • Ouch.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    fineline wrote: »
    ...*shrugs* I like opera and people often say it's shit.

    Well, they're wrong. It's the finest amalgamation of all the arts - singing, instrumental, dramatic, visual - in the world. If some people don't get it, I feel sorry for them, but I don't verbally beat up on them.


  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    ...Illustrious Mr Loaf my arse ...

    Isn't he the one who looks like Bryn Terfel?


  • I admit I had to look up Bryn Terfel, but, yes! Uncanny, really.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    ...*shrugs* I like opera and people often say it's shit.

    Well, they're wrong. It's the finest amalgamation of all the arts - singing, instrumental, dramatic, visual - in the world. If some people don't get it, I feel sorry for them, but I don't verbally beat up on them.

    Yes, I’ve noticed you see your preferences in absolute terms. I was actually thinking that if you’d said metal was shit, or even that opera was better than metal, you’d have meant it, absolutely, rather than as a winding-up thing.
    And it would still have wound up KarlB, but your lack of current hell thread with your name on probably would have prevented a hell call.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    Well there's a nice little trip down hypothetical avenue

    As it happens I did try to get to grips with opera but ultimately I just don't care much for the vocal style. But I'm not one for theater of any kind any way; I prefer film.

    Don't feel sorry for me, please, it's a bit meaningless. I might as well pity people who don't appreciate the triple guitar solo in the Freebird playout.

    What I don't do is splurge my way over theater, opera or ballet threads (were there to be any) raising my personal preferences to a blanket writing off of those endeavours.

    Incidentally I don't need pre-existing Hell threads. I started this one last time Gam pulled this shit.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Ah, my mistake - I sleepily misread your earlier post as saying you wouldn’t have bothered if there wasn’t an existing hell thread.
  • I'm sure the triple guitar solo in the Freebird playout is very good.

    Yes, I've been winding you up and it's been shitty of me. That's why Eutychus's comment about not respecting other Shipmates hit home. Ouch! Because I do actually respect and enjoy your posts and you often hit the nail bang on the head with your observations.

    Which makes my recent misdemeanours even more reprehensible.

    My aversion to Metal isn't due to its lack of technical virtuosity. That's not the point I'm making. The triple guitar solo might be the best thing ever performed on a guitar in the history of the guitar for all I know. That wouldn't exonerate metal as a genre as far as I'm concerned. But that's beside the point.

    The point isn't about Metal, Opera or folk music from Upper Silesia, it's about my repeatedly winding people up and derailing threads. That would apply if it were a thread about knitting, flower arranging or the Dead Sea Scrolls.

    Ok. I'll come clean. I'd had a drink, right? I wasn't pissed but keyboards and alcohol don't mix. I was feeling mischievous.

    It looks like there's just one form of non-invasive treatment left before my wife has to revert to intravenous chemo with all that this entails in terms of hair loss, side effects and loss of energy. This treatment normally works for around 6 months.

    So we've got 6 months respite before the heavy shit happens again. I owe it to her to make the most of that 6 months. I owe it to you lot not to shit on your threads and posts.

    I've promised not to do so before but have reneged on that. I've let you all down and let myself down. Nobody minds a laff and a wind-up but there are appropriate forums for that. This isn't the right one for that and no, there is never a right forum for gratuitously taking the piss out of people's tastes and preferences, no matter how daft they appear to me.

    Don't know what else I can do but apologise, get me coat and take voluntary shore leave for everyone's sake.

    Peace.
  • Just stop. Don't post drunk, don't do wind-ups, stop doing things which mean you have to make the same apologies.

    We all know you are hurting, but in the name of all all that is holy, get yourself some Real Life spiritual support and stop making a dick of yourself here.
  • How to piss all over a handsome apology.
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    Yeah ok. It isn't like he used exactly the same words and phrases and promises when he apologised the last time.

    Oh wait.

    Edit: I'm not questioning the sincerity. I am questioning whether posting here is helping Gam. I care about his mental health, I don't think this cycle of posting this crap, offering his "bollocks for a kicking" followed by a grovelling apology is helping.

    If you think that's pissing all over it, that's your problem.
  • In my personal opinion there’s a line between the legitimate use of the Hell Board to challenge the horrible conduct of a hurting person on another board and the illegitimate use of the Hell Board as a means of being horrible to a hurting person. For my money that line has just been crossed.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Gamma, I am not quite sure if you are saying you want to take shore leave to spend more time with your wife, or if you are offering to take shore leave as a self-inflicted punishment. But if it is the latter, why don't you stay but just take a couple of hours shore leave whenever you have a drink. I hope that is not rude to say. I generally try not to post when I've had a drink, or when I'm very tired, because I get more direct, or rather less able to temper my directness, and it can come across rude. (I'm so bad at such things - I'm not even drunk or particularly tired now, and was actually going to say I agree with mr cheesy, because I didn't realise he was coming across as rude.)

    FWIW, I have never seen you as disrespectful, and I'd miss you if you left the Ship, but I totally understand if it's to spend more time with your wife. And I also wonder if what mr cheesy says about maybe getting some support, like counselling, might help with the stress, though of course you may be already doing that.
  • mr cheesy wrote: »
    Yeah ok. It isn't like he used exactly the same words and phrases and promises when he apologised the last time.
    In my opinion that's precisely what he didn't do, hence my response to you.

    I read GG's post carefully, detected not a hint of snark or self-justification, and a genuine realisation of just what he was being brought to book for.

    Of course the proof of the pudding is in the eating, but in the circumstances it counts as a handsome apology for me.

    Without detracting from the above, in the interests of clarity, @fineline I think that constantly, repeatedly winding people up after having been told not to demonstrates a lack of respect for them. It suggests other Shipmates are there to be played with at one's whim and in defiance of their expressed feelings.

  • Eutychus wrote: »
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    Yeah ok. It isn't like he used exactly the same words and phrases and promises when he apologised the last time.
    In my opinion that's precisely what he didn't do, hence my response to you.

    I don't give a flying shit what you think.
    I read GG's post carefully, detected not a hint of snark or self-justification, and a genuine realisation of just what he was being brought to book for.

    I read none of those things in the apologies on page 2 of this thread.

    So it is about perception and - newsflash - your perceptions are notoriously way off from others, notably mine.
    Of course the proof of the pudding is in the eating, but in the circumstances it counts as a handsome apology for me.

    Again, whether you think it is more or less or equal to other apologies on this thread is worth exactly nothing to me.

    The issue for me is the pattern of basically doing exactly the same thing and then apologising for it in the same grovelling way.

    Whether the apology is wholesome or handsome or turthful makes no odds - the man reverted to a self-destructive behaviour. That's far more important than your perception of the status of an apology.
    Without detracting from the above, in the interests of clarity, @fineline I think that constantly, repeatedly winding people up after having been told not to demonstrates a lack of respect for them. It suggests other Shipmates are there to be played with at one's whim and in defiance of their expressed feelings.

    Or it suggests a tormented individual who in times of extreme stress works out that pain in a repeated pattern on an internet bulletin board.

    I suggest that the evidence shows that berating then praising the man for an apology is not helping.
  • I'm sure if I was in his position this
    Just stop. Don't post drunk, don't do wind-ups, stop doing things which mean you have to make the same apologies.

    We all know you are hurting, but in the name of all all that is holy, get yourself some Real Life spiritual support and stop making a dick of yourself here.
    would be about as helpful to me as Job's comforters were to him. There's such a thing as silence, you know.

  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Eutychus, yes, that makes sense, and I should perhaps have added 'deliberate' before disrespectful. I tend to interpret Gamma's posts (rightly or wrongly) as a kind of mischievousness where he thinks people are finding him funny albeit annoying. I find this is common in some social circles, and it's not seen in those circles as a serious misdemeanour.

    I do find what is understood as respect can differ so much between different cultures, social classes and groups. For instance, I tend to find directness more respectful than indirectness, and it's taken me ages to realise that a lot of other people see it as the other way around. And there are quite a few people on the Ship that I initially interpreted as rude and disrespectful, and I now see it that they are probably not intending this. For instance, in my personal experience here in the UK, it is often considered disrespectful and patronising to say you feel pity for people, especially based on their personal taste being different from yours. And yet here is Rossweisse saying she feels pity for people who don't like opera, and I don't think she is being deliberately rude. And I wonder whether, if Gamma had simply said he felt pity for people who like metal, that might have seemed more respectful to most people than repeating 'metal is shit.'
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    No, not really.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    I'm sure if I was in his position this
    Just stop. Don't post drunk, don't do wind-ups, stop doing things which mean you have to make the same apologies.

    We all know you are hurting, but in the name of all all that is holy, get yourself some Real Life spiritual support and stop making a dick of yourself here.
    would be about as helpful to me as Job's comforters were to him. There's such a thing as silence, you know.

    You should really listen to yourself - just shut up you pompous oaf.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    The words ‘I think ...’ or ‘I believe ...’ before saying anything is shit or brilliant go a long way towards ameliorating misunderstandings, in my view.

    It also moves the discussion forward as the reply will then be words to the effect “Do you, why do thy think that?” - then explanation and understanding, hopefully, will follow.
  • @fineline it becomes a serious misdemeanour when people repeatedly go on doing it after repeatedly having been asked to stop.
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    You should really listen to yourself
    So should you.

    It might make you consider how saying things like "making a dick of yourself" and issuing a list of instructions to the sufferer, in public, could possibly come across as "caring for their mental health".
  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    ...*shrugs* I like opera and people often say it's shit.

    Well, they're wrong. It's the finest amalgamation of all the arts - singing, instrumental, dramatic, visual - in the world.
    I couldn't agree more. We went to a fantastic performance of Prokofiev's "War and Peace" last month.

  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Eutychus, yes, I was talking about repeatedly saying the same thing, after being told to stop. That's how it goes with winding up. I guess in real life situations that I've experienced, unless a person says something malicious, personally insulting, racist, etc, they just get seen as annoying, told by everyone in a good-humoured/exasperated way to shut up, and ignored until they stop. It's not seen as a serious misdemeanour in these situations - more as annoying behaviour, and maybe poor social skills.

    Or course, in social situations there are no hosts though. If it were a classroom situation of kids with a teacher, the kid who keeps on repeating the same annoying thing when told to stop will be soundly scolded by the teacher.
  • Well yes I was thinking in Ship terms. But I have come to be wary of people who do it consistently in real life, too.
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    Eutychus wrote: »
    @fineline it becomes a serious misdemeanour when people repeatedly go on doing it after repeatedly having been asked to stop.
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    You should really listen to yourself
    So should you.

    It might make you consider how saying things like "making a dick of yourself" and issuing a list of instructions to the sufferer, in public, could possibly come across as "caring for their mental health".

    You really haven't thought about what you've said to him AND you double down because you want the last word. As always.

    The fact is that you don't care about anything other than ensuring that things end up matching your self-ordained standard of spiritual purity.

    It'd be funny if it wasn't actually tragic.

  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Yes, it does depend on the person. As I say, I don't interpret Gamma as having ill-intent or disrespect, but different people interpret things differently, and it can be hard to tell online without facial expression, tone of voice, etc.
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