For the record I'm not apologising for saying someone is in a destructive cycle of posting behaviour, that they are acting like a dick and that they should get help.
If you can't see that as caring for their mental health, then sorry, I can't help you see it.
If telling someone (in public not by PM to boot) that they're "acting like a dick", and ordering them to stop posting under the influence when they've already said they'd stop is your idea of expressing care for their mental health, I can't help you either.
Listen Pope Eutychus, just because you think or say something doesn't make it gospel.
I happen to believe that your behaviour where you disparaged someone else's previous apologies as "hollow" and participated in the continued kicking of someone for what was a fairly minor alcohol induced infraction until they apologised to your satisfaction was nothing short of disgraceful. Do you apologise? Of course not! You are the Pope! Your word is gospel! Everyone else should kneel until you say so!
People were angry - for a valid reason, it was a dickish thing to do. But it didn't deserve the bile.
And it certainly did not deserve the public humiliation from you.
You could have handled this differently. You could have been sensitive to his personal circumstances. You could have dampened the flames. But you didn't.
Gam did not need to apologise with cut-and-paste phrases nor go into self-imposed shore leave. That's on you.
Because, at the end of the day, you are a dick. Get some help.
And by posting in public in response to what they've just said you're positively inviting them to break their vow of self-imposed shore leave to respond, presumably so you can have another go at them. Now that is acting like a dick.
And by posting in public in response to what they've just said you're positively inviting them to break their vow of self-imposed shore leave to respond, presumably so you can have another go at them. Now that is acting like a dick.
Yeah and now you are a mind-reader. I'll add that to the list of your skills.
I interpreted mr cheesy's 'Just stop. Don't post drunk' as a way of saying that Gamma didn't have to leave the ship on a shore leave, but just refrain from drunk posting. Which was what I also was trying to say. Because Gamma had said he didn't know what to do other than apologise and take shore leave. I wanted to suggest other options, and I thought mr cheesy did too, because Gamma seemed upset and genuinely didn't seem to know what to do.
If I may say, without any disrespect intended, and with full knowledge that the way I post can come across rude, thoughtless, annoying, etc. - Eutychus and mr cheesy, you both can sometimes come across (to me, at least) as rude and insensitive in very different ways, which I suspect neither of you intend, but I can see how you can rub each other the wrong way, because your styles are so different. Not wanting to be soppy, especially not in hell, but I think you both do genuinely care about Gamma and wish him well.
I happen to believe that your behaviour where you disparaged someone else's previous apologies as "hollow"
In my judgement the other apologies were hollow because all of them either contained or were immediately followed by further examples of the same offence, which to be clear was to keep on yanking somebody's chain in the wrong forum after they'd been asked to stop. This one was different, and I would have said nothing at all had you not pissed all over it, which you had no reason whatsoever to do.
and participated in the continued kicking of someone for what was a fairly minor alcohol induced infraction
Nobody said anything about alcohol until Gamaliel himself did. And continually behaving like a jerk after having been told not to is not a minor infraction in this context. I do not believe spelling out what somebody's done wrong automatically qualifies as "continued kicking" for as long as the person is continuing to offend.
until they apologised to your satisfaction
My personal satisfaction is nothing to do with it. If you want to challenge the official admin warning to Gamaliel, go ahead, knock yourself out.
Do you apologise? Of course not!
This is demonstrably untrue.
People were angry - for a valid reason, it was a dickish thing to do. But it didn't deserve the bile.
And it certainly did not deserve the public humiliation from you.
Exactly what do you think I've said constitutes public humiliation?
You could have handled this differently.
I'm not "handling" anything here. I'm posting as a Shipmate, same as you.
You could have been sensitive to his personal circumstances.
Personal circumstances can explain bad behaviour, as KLB himself noted, but they are no justification for it. As stated before on this thread, we have no idea what shit different people are going through. Most of them manage to behave themselves appropriately nonetheless.
You would have dampened the flames. But you didn't.
As far as I'm concerned your response after Gamaliel's most recent post here is more inflammatory than anything I've posted.
Gam did not need to apologise with cut-and-paste phrases
To my reading those phrases were not cut and paste and you are doing him no respect by suggesting they are. To me that proves you failed to read what he wrote properly. If he had come back and repeat offended again after that apology, I might have some more sympathy for you, but no, you just had to add your two cents' worth right away, telling him to do what he'd already acknowledged.
That is known as a double bind and it is emotionally abusive to Gamaliel on your part.
Because, at the end of the day, you are a dick. Get some help.
I interpreted mr cheesy's 'Just stop. Don't post drunk' as a way of saying that Gamma didn't have to leave the ship on a shore leave, but just refrain from drunk posting. Which was what I also was trying to say. Because Gamma had said he didn't know what to do other than apologise and take shore leave. I wanted to suggest other options, and I thought mr cheesy did too, because Gamma seemed upset and genuinely didn't seem to know what to do.
Exactly so, thank you. I was trying to say that a flowery apology and shore leave wasn't going to solve this problem.
If I may say, without any disrespect intended, and with full knowledge that the way I post can come across rude, thoughtless, annoying, etc. - Eutychus and mr cheesy, you both can sometimes come across (to me, at least) as rude and insensitive in very different ways, which I suspect neither of you intend, but I can see how you can rub each other the wrong way, because your styles are so different. Not wanting to be soppy, especially not in hell, but I think you both do genuinely care about Gamma and wish him well.
When someone says "I was under the influence when posting, realise that's a bad idea, and intend to stop" and you reply by saying "stop posting while drunk", that's a double bind. When someone says "I've been a dick and intend to stop" and you say to them "stop being a dick", that's a double bind, and it's what got me pissed about your answer.
If you're trying to blame me for Gamaliel's self-imposed shore leave, that's up to you. I certainly don't see it as my fault. I stand by my statement that his persistent behaviour in the face of clearly stated objections displayed a lack of respect for other posters, even if that wasn't his intent (and he was under an admin warning of suspension for doing just that).
If he chooses to deal with that by taking some time out, so be it. What neither he nor anyone else can expect to do is continue to disrespect other posters and get away with it for long, whatever their circumstances. Nobody here can go around checking people's alcohol intake or personal situation before posting. It is up to each of us posting to engage brain before doing so.
Goodness me, I'm pausing on the gang plank a moment ...
FWIW, I'm not offended or upset by anything either Mr cheesy or Eutychus have posted. I agree with both of them ... Both/and .
Eutychus pricked my conscience. I was treating the whole thing as a bit of a wind-up and a laff but his comment brought me up short. I have a lot of respect for Karl's posts and he often puts into words things I've thought but struggled to articulate. So I thought, 'Bloody hell, how would I feel if he was winding me up all the time?'
I wouldn't like it. I have been a dick and behaved dickishly towards him.
I'd assumed, wrongly, that by repeating the mantra 'metal is shit', I was being so hyperbolic as to be funny. No, it wasn't funny. It must have been bloody irritating.
So, fair call. I killed the joke as I did with Prog and as I've done with winding Mousethief up over 'Lord of The Rings.'
Yes, I do think all those things are generally over-rated - or in the case of Metal, reprehensible on all sorts of levels - and can cite reasons for thinking so that are more sophisticated than, 'I think they're shit.' But I felt I was limiting my palette for humorous effect. Rather like a Fast Show catch-phrase.
If I were Karl I think I'd be far less offended by 'Metal is shit' than, 'I pity you Karl, for liking heavy metal.'
In my book the latter would be a far worse thing to say than the former.
At any rate, it wasn't funny nor was it respectful to other Shipmates. So yeah, I messed up.
I've done this sort of thing before. I've got previous.
I will stop posting for a while because I don't feel I'm contributing anything positive at the moment and you could all do with a bit of a break from my ramblings.
I've got 6 months before the Purgatory we're in now in real life turns into 'cold cap' Hell and side effects. I won't be laughing then.
I had signed up for counseling, Mr cheesy. Only had one session so far. I'm going to need them.
No need to apologise on my account - if indeed it was on my account AFF.
Perhaps they'd swapped one Mr Loaf for Bryn Terfel in the Met's Ring Cycle. Metal Ring Cycle? Arse Ring Cycle? I'll get me coat ...
No, I can see why they'd deck Wagnerian opera up in Metal paraphernalia. Wagner's the Iron Maiden of the operatic canon. Both are pretty over-blown if you ask me. But you're not asking me so I'll shut the fuck up ...
In my personal opinion there’s a line between the legitimate use of the Hell Board to challenge the horrible conduct of a hurting person on another board and the illegitimate use of the Hell Board as a means of being horrible to a hurting person. For my money that line has just been crossed.
Honestly, I sort of thought it had been crossed from the start. I don't care for musical snobbery but I'm not kicking someone who's down. Not that being in a bad place excuses bad behaviour, but where the pain and being a pain cross isn't an easy line to find.
No need to apologise on my account - if indeed it was on my account AFF.
Perhaps they'd swapped one Mr Loaf for Bryn Terfel in the Met's Ring Cycle. Metal Ring Cycle? Arse Ring Cycle? I'll get me coat ...
No, I can see why they'd deck Wagnerian opera up in Metal paraphernalia. Wagner's the Iron Maiden of the operatic canon. Both are pretty over-blown if you ask me. But you're not asking me so I'll shut the fuck up ...
(Dashes down gangplank and hides)
At this point I'm going to have to conclude that you just can't help yourself.
I opened the door just a teeny crack and you busted right through it with a Wagnerian entrance of your own.
Now be prepared to be shat upon from great heights by opera buffs.
And sincerest apologies to the rest of the Ship for prolonging the agony.
...*shrugs* I like opera and people often say it's shit.
Well, they're wrong. It's the finest amalgamation of all the arts - singing, instrumental, dramatic, visual - in the world. If some people don't get it, I feel sorry for them, but I don't verbally beat up on them.
If this is intentional irony, then bravo, well done. Otherwise...
No need to apologise on my account - if indeed it was on my account AFF.
Perhaps they'd swapped one Mr Loaf for Bryn Terfel in the Met's Ring Cycle. Metal Ring Cycle? Arse Ring Cycle? I'll get me coat ...
No, I can see why they'd deck Wagnerian opera up in Metal paraphernalia. Wagner's the Iron Maiden of the operatic canon. Both are pretty over-blown if you ask me. But you're not asking me so I'll shut the fuck up ...
(Dashes down gangplank and hides)
At this point I'm going to have to conclude that you just can't help yourself.
I opened the door just a teeny crack and you busted right through it with a Wagnerian entrance of your own.
Now be prepared to be shat upon from great heights by opera buffs.
And sincerest apologies to the rest of the Ship for prolonging the agony.
AFF
Shit away. I can take it. There's more to opera than Wagner, of course. I'm quite partial to Handel's operas, for instance. Mozart too, and come on, as I'm from South Wales I'm bound to have a soft spot for some of the classic arias from Puccini and so on.
Taking a mild pop at Wagner isn't tantamount to flushing all opera down the toilet.
The problem with Wagner, to get all Godwin about it, is of course the company his fans keep. They can't get around Hitler being a big Wagner fan. That's not their fault of course.
Relax. Both Wagner and Mahler are overblown and over-egged in my view. That doesn't mean I think they're shit.
Anyhow, I promised to shut up and have broken it already ...
I'm not an opera buff. I'm the arm candy at the event with my Beloved, who is. So I can check the Ring off my bucket list thank heaven.
But my point being - mild swipe or no, it just appears that you can't resist the impulse to make some (what you might think is) clever snark about some musical genre. What's the shortest distance between two jokes? A straight line. And it feels like you're some kind of heat seeking missile for the setup whose guidance system is on the blink. You said you would change course but ... erm ... no.
About Wagner, I have news for you. Bugs Bunny has already said everything everything that needs to be said about him.
Yes, I’ve noticed you see your preferences in absolute terms. I was actually thinking that if you’d said metal was shit, or even that opera was better than metal, you’d have meant it, absolutely, rather than as a winding-up thing.
And it would still have wound up KarlB, but your lack of current hell thread with your name on probably would have prevented a hell call.
It doesn't take much to wind up KarlB, who sees his own preferences as Absolute Truth and is consistently, aggressively hostile to anyone who disagrees with any of his (rather mixed) opinions. But I really don't care what he thinks, and I wouldn't wind him up a-purpose.
If this is intentional irony, then bravo, well done. Otherwise...
It's "brava" for a female, you twit. Do you hang around the Ship just to be obnoxious and annoying? If so, you should feel fulfilled.
I suppose you just answered my implied question; You were doing the exact same thing as Gama, but with loads more arrogance. BTW, when you write something worthy of addressing you properly, I will.
Yes, I’ve noticed you see your preferences in absolute terms. I was actually thinking that if you’d said metal was shit, or even that opera was better than metal, you’d have meant it, absolutely, rather than as a winding-up thing.
And it would still have wound up KarlB, but your lack of current hell thread with your name on probably would have prevented a hell call.
It doesn't take much to wind up KarlB, who sees his own preferences as Absolute Truth and is consistently, aggressively hostile to anyone who disagrees with any of his (rather mixed) opinions. But I really don't care what he thinks, and I wouldn't wind him up a-purpose.
Get your own thread to slag me off. You're projecting.
Yes, I’ve noticed you see your preferences in absolute terms. I was actually thinking that if you’d said metal was shit, or even that opera was better than metal, you’d have meant it, absolutely, rather than as a winding-up thing.
And it would still have wound up KarlB, but your lack of current hell thread with your name on probably would have prevented a hell call.
It doesn't take much to wind up KarlB, who sees his own preferences as Absolute Truth and is consistently, aggressively hostile to anyone who disagrees with any of his (rather mixed) opinions. But I really don't care what he thinks, and I wouldn't wind him up a-purpose.
I always see it more that KarlB sees as Absolute Truth the idea that personal preferences shouldn't be presented as Absolute Truth. Which I observe is a bit of an unspoken etiquette rule in the UK, but not so much in Absolute Truth terms, and it generally logically follows that however much people disapprove of it, they don't express their disapproval as Absolute Truth. So he doesn't really follow that one. And so he clashes a bit with some Americans, as I've noticed on the Ship (and in general online), when there is a question of personal preferences, while Brits tend to express in subjective, personal preference terms, some Americans do express in Absolute Truth terms, or 'My way is better than your way' terms, and it doesn't seem to be an etiquette breach for them. It is interesting to observe. I see it a lot on Facebook. When Brits do this, it is more likely to be tongue in cheek, to be silly, and when they keep going, rather than acknowledge they are being silly, it is a wind-up thing. Which is why I said Gamma was doing it in a different way from you. It looks the same, externally, but is differently motivated. KarlB apparently doesn't like either version.
When you've finished - KLB doesn't mind a bit of tongue in cheek ribbing, but he does like people to know when to stop, and that line may move when people have form.
What KLB doesn't like is, for example, people laying down the law on language and accusing him of being a crap parent for not enforcing their rules and views on the subject, and then being accused of seeing his preferences as Absolute Truths by that same person.
KLB also admits to being grumpier these days which means his bullshit limit is lower. Still needs bullshit to reach it though.
What KLB doesn't like is, for example, people laying down the law on language and accusing him of being a crap parent for not enforcing their rules and views on the subject, and then being accused of seeing his preferences as Absolute Truths by that same person.
Wait, what? Are you saying someone on these boards said something about your parenting?
Matter closed unless certain parties choose to reopen it.
Right. That seems a tad more serious than saying metal is shit.
More a throwaway comment made by the commentor without, I think, considering its implications. I'm so prickly though that I made a complaint to admin and opened a Hell thread - oh, wait, no, I didn't.
Apologies for omitting the L in your name, KarlLB. I didn't notice it before, until you wrote KLB. I think I just saw it as part of the Karl.
I don't really know you, so I can't make sweeping statements. I've just seen you get pissed off on the language thread and the bath thread, both times in response to a 'my way is better than your way' attitude, so I saw a pattern that was also continued here with Gamma. You even seemed annoyed with me in the bath thread, when I said that steam rooms were the best way to get really clean, despite the fact that I was disagreeing with your nemesis! So I guess I did see you as a bit reactive.
Anyway, as you know, I fully agree with you about the language thing. I just see it as some people are very rigid on how they see language, because they are taught that way. I've seen so many people online get utterly indignant, even furious, at any idea that language can be done differently (the American v Brit discussions on FB grammar groups get incredibly heated and aggressive), so I figure it's not worth expecting them to change or wasting energy getting angry about it. But I suppose if you're in a grumpy mood, it's a good way to offload grumpiness!
Fair enough - I wasn't intending a new discussion on it. More replying to your response, out of politeness, or an attempt at it, as I'd been talking about you in the third person before. Anyway, back to Gamma, who is the star of the thread. And who seems to have gone, so maybe no more need for this thread for now.
...What KLB doesn't like is, for example, people laying down the law on language and accusing him of being a crap parent for not enforcing their rules and views on the subject, and then being accused of seeing his preferences as Absolute Truths by that same person....
...and what Rossweisse doesn't like is men who believe that they alone own Absolute Truth deliberately misconstruing what has been said about them. For example, Mr. LB has several times accused me of calling him a "crap parent" (citation, please) because I said it was unfortunate that he was encouraging his child to use poor grammar. That's what the "poor kid" was about: not him, but his very bad idea. It is not going to help her in life.
As a parent myself, I think it's a good idea to encourage children to strive for the best, but I have definitely not called him a "crap parent" (not my style, in any case), nor would I. I just think it's best to teach children proper English usage. Mr. Superior's mileage may well vary.
...What KLB doesn't like is, for example, people laying down the law on language and accusing him of being a crap parent for not enforcing their rules and views on the subject, and then being accused of seeing his preferences as Absolute Truths by that same person....
...and what Rossweisse doesn't like is men who believe that they alone own Absolute Truth deliberately misconstruing what has been said about them. For example, Mr. LB has several times accused me of calling him a "crap parent" (citation, please) because I said it was unfortunate that he was encouraging his child to use poor grammar. That's what the "poor kid" was about: not him, but his very bad idea. It is not going to help her in life.
As a parent myself, I think it's a good idea to encourage children to strive for the best, but I have definitely not called him a "crap parent" (not my style, in any case), nor would I. I just think it's best to teach children proper English usage. Mr. Superior's mileage may well vary.
When you called my daughter a "poor kid" because I'm her father and I make my own judgments about what my priorities are for her, you effectively accused me of being a bad parent.
You didn't use the words "crap parent". You didn't need to; it was implicit in your comments
I do not encourage her to use "bad grammar". I do not agree with you about what "bad grammar" is. The usage in question, "Can I have x, please?" in place of your "May I have x, please" is normal, correct, unaffected English here. As I explained, very few people would use "May I have" and it comes over as over-polite and formal. I also explained that people doing exactly what you advocate have confused her to the point she's asking me "May you open this for me please?". But you are so sure of yourself that you're convinced your usage is the only possible acceptable one, to the point that you know better about my daughter, who has special needs, across the sea, whom you have never met, than I do, who have only been her father for ten years, and that I'm failing in my duties as a parent not to do it your way. I think I'm in a better position to know what will help her in life in this environment and in this country than you are, pontificating from a different environment in a different country
And you accuse me of being obsessed that my preferences are the only possible ones.
When you called my daughter a "poor kid" because I'm her father and I make my own judgments about what my priorities are for her, you effectively accused me of being a bad parent. ...
Nope. I did not. I just found it unfortunate that you wouldn't encourage her to use what our English-speaking society has deemed correct usage, because I fear that it will make her life more difficult in the long run. That's what the "poor kid" was about.
I had no idea that she had special needs. I just know that you seem to regard disagreement on any subject - whether it's over bicyclists ignoring traffic laws at whim or over any generally-accepted-as-correct usage or custom that you personally dislike - as a form of lèse-majesté, and that you tend to respond to that by going nuclear. It's tiresome.
Comments
If you can't see that as caring for their mental health, then sorry, I can't help you see it.
I happen to believe that your behaviour where you disparaged someone else's previous apologies as "hollow" and participated in the continued kicking of someone for what was a fairly minor alcohol induced infraction until they apologised to your satisfaction was nothing short of disgraceful. Do you apologise? Of course not! You are the Pope! Your word is gospel! Everyone else should kneel until you say so!
People were angry - for a valid reason, it was a dickish thing to do. But it didn't deserve the bile.
And it certainly did not deserve the public humiliation from you.
You could have handled this differently. You could have been sensitive to his personal circumstances. You could have dampened the flames. But you didn't.
Gam did not need to apologise with cut-and-paste phrases nor go into self-imposed shore leave. That's on you.
Because, at the end of the day, you are a dick. Get some help.
Yeah and now you are a mind-reader. I'll add that to the list of your skills.
If I may say, without any disrespect intended, and with full knowledge that the way I post can come across rude, thoughtless, annoying, etc. - Eutychus and mr cheesy, you both can sometimes come across (to me, at least) as rude and insensitive in very different ways, which I suspect neither of you intend, but I can see how you can rub each other the wrong way, because your styles are so different. Not wanting to be soppy, especially not in hell, but I think you both do genuinely care about Gamma and wish him well.
Nobody said anything about alcohol until Gamaliel himself did. And continually behaving like a jerk after having been told not to is not a minor infraction in this context. I do not believe spelling out what somebody's done wrong automatically qualifies as "continued kicking" for as long as the person is continuing to offend. My personal satisfaction is nothing to do with it. If you want to challenge the official admin warning to Gamaliel, go ahead, knock yourself out. This is demonstrably untrue.
Exactly what do you think I've said constitutes public humiliation?
I'm not "handling" anything here. I'm posting as a Shipmate, same as you. Personal circumstances can explain bad behaviour, as KLB himself noted, but they are no justification for it. As stated before on this thread, we have no idea what shit different people are going through. Most of them manage to behave themselves appropriately nonetheless. As far as I'm concerned your response after Gamaliel's most recent post here is more inflammatory than anything I've posted.
To my reading those phrases were not cut and paste and you are doing him no respect by suggesting they are. To me that proves you failed to read what he wrote properly. If he had come back and repeat offended again after that apology, I might have some more sympathy for you, but no, you just had to add your two cents' worth right away, telling him to do what he'd already acknowledged.
That is known as a double bind and it is emotionally abusive to Gamaliel on your part.
I hope you feel better now.
Exactly so, thank you. I was trying to say that a flowery apology and shore leave wasn't going to solve this problem.
Mm.
I really don't think showering people with public advice is a good solution here.
Once again, your views are noted and ignored.
Oh how you double down. Nothing is ever your fault. It is always someone else.
Whatevs, Euty.
If you're trying to blame me for Gamaliel's self-imposed shore leave, that's up to you. I certainly don't see it as my fault. I stand by my statement that his persistent behaviour in the face of clearly stated objections displayed a lack of respect for other posters, even if that wasn't his intent (and he was under an admin warning of suspension for doing just that).
If he chooses to deal with that by taking some time out, so be it. What neither he nor anyone else can expect to do is continue to disrespect other posters and get away with it for long, whatever their circumstances. Nobody here can go around checking people's alcohol intake or personal situation before posting. It is up to each of us posting to engage brain before doing so.
FWIW, I'm not offended or upset by anything either Mr cheesy or Eutychus have posted. I agree with both of them ... Both/and
Eutychus pricked my conscience. I was treating the whole thing as a bit of a wind-up and a laff but his comment brought me up short. I have a lot of respect for Karl's posts and he often puts into words things I've thought but struggled to articulate. So I thought, 'Bloody hell, how would I feel if he was winding me up all the time?'
I wouldn't like it. I have been a dick and behaved dickishly towards him.
I'd assumed, wrongly, that by repeating the mantra 'metal is shit', I was being so hyperbolic as to be funny. No, it wasn't funny. It must have been bloody irritating.
So, fair call. I killed the joke as I did with Prog and as I've done with winding Mousethief up over 'Lord of The Rings.'
Yes, I do think all those things are generally over-rated - or in the case of Metal, reprehensible on all sorts of levels - and can cite reasons for thinking so that are more sophisticated than, 'I think they're shit.' But I felt I was limiting my palette for humorous effect. Rather like a Fast Show catch-phrase.
If I were Karl I think I'd be far less offended by 'Metal is shit' than, 'I pity you Karl, for liking heavy metal.'
In my book the latter would be a far worse thing to say than the former.
At any rate, it wasn't funny nor was it respectful to other Shipmates. So yeah, I messed up.
I've done this sort of thing before. I've got previous.
I will stop posting for a while because I don't feel I'm contributing anything positive at the moment and you could all do with a bit of a break from my ramblings.
I've got 6 months before the Purgatory we're in now in real life turns into 'cold cap' Hell and side effects. I won't be laughing then.
I had signed up for counseling, Mr cheesy. Only had one session so far. I'm going to need them.
I quite enjoyed the metal stylings of Bryn in the Met's Ring Cycle a few years back. They really tried to make him look like a rock god.
AFF
Event though it's hell - maybe there's something to be said for the original definition of hell as a temporary but purgative place.
AFF
Perhaps they'd swapped one Mr Loaf for Bryn Terfel in the Met's Ring Cycle. Metal Ring Cycle? Arse Ring Cycle? I'll get me coat ...
No, I can see why they'd deck Wagnerian opera up in Metal paraphernalia. Wagner's the Iron Maiden of the operatic canon. Both are pretty over-blown if you ask me. But you're not asking me so I'll shut the fuck up ...
(Dashes down gangplank and hides)
At this point I'm going to have to conclude that you just can't help yourself.
I opened the door just a teeny crack and you busted right through it with a Wagnerian entrance of your own.
Now be prepared to be shat upon from great heights by opera buffs.
And sincerest apologies to the rest of the Ship for prolonging the agony.
AFF
Shit away. I can take it. There's more to opera than Wagner, of course. I'm quite partial to Handel's operas, for instance. Mozart too, and come on, as I'm from South Wales I'm bound to have a soft spot for some of the classic arias from Puccini and so on.
Taking a mild pop at Wagner isn't tantamount to flushing all opera down the toilet.
The problem with Wagner, to get all Godwin about it, is of course the company his fans keep. They can't get around Hitler being a big Wagner fan. That's not their fault of course.
Relax. Both Wagner and Mahler are overblown and over-egged in my view. That doesn't mean I think they're shit.
Anyhow, I promised to shut up and have broken it already ...
So I will skedaddle
However his arias may perhaps have been sung at Craig-y-Nos.
It got even more true after you posted it.
But my point being - mild swipe or no, it just appears that you can't resist the impulse to make some (what you might think is) clever snark about some musical genre. What's the shortest distance between two jokes? A straight line. And it feels like you're some kind of heat seeking missile for the setup whose guidance system is on the blink. You said you would change course but ... erm ... no.
About Wagner, I have news for you. Bugs Bunny has already said everything everything that needs to be said about him.
AFF
It doesn't take much to wind up KarlB, who sees his own preferences as Absolute Truth and is consistently, aggressively hostile to anyone who disagrees with any of his (rather mixed) opinions. But I really don't care what he thinks, and I wouldn't wind him up a-purpose.
Oh, what's the point?
It's "brava" for a female, you twit. Do you hang around the Ship just to be obnoxious and annoying? If so, you should feel fulfilled.
Get your own thread to slag me off. You're projecting.
I always see it more that KarlB sees as Absolute Truth the idea that personal preferences shouldn't be presented as Absolute Truth. Which I observe is a bit of an unspoken etiquette rule in the UK, but not so much in Absolute Truth terms, and it generally logically follows that however much people disapprove of it, they don't express their disapproval as Absolute Truth. So he doesn't really follow that one. And so he clashes a bit with some Americans, as I've noticed on the Ship (and in general online), when there is a question of personal preferences, while Brits tend to express in subjective, personal preference terms, some Americans do express in Absolute Truth terms, or 'My way is better than your way' terms, and it doesn't seem to be an etiquette breach for them. It is interesting to observe. I see it a lot on Facebook. When Brits do this, it is more likely to be tongue in cheek, to be silly, and when they keep going, rather than acknowledge they are being silly, it is a wind-up thing. Which is why I said Gamma was doing it in a different way from you. It looks the same, externally, but is differently motivated. KarlB apparently doesn't like either version.
What KLB doesn't like is, for example, people laying down the law on language and accusing him of being a crap parent for not enforcing their rules and views on the subject, and then being accused of seeing his preferences as Absolute Truths by that same person.
KLB also admits to being grumpier these days which means his bullshit limit is lower. Still needs bullshit to reach it though.
Wait, what? Are you saying someone on these boards said something about your parenting?
Right. That seems a tad more serious than saying metal is shit.
More a throwaway comment made by the commentor without, I think, considering its implications. I'm so prickly though that I made a complaint to admin and opened a Hell thread - oh, wait, no, I didn't.
I don't really know you, so I can't make sweeping statements. I've just seen you get pissed off on the language thread and the bath thread, both times in response to a 'my way is better than your way' attitude, so I saw a pattern that was also continued here with Gamma. You even seemed annoyed with me in the bath thread, when I said that steam rooms were the best way to get really clean, despite the fact that I was disagreeing with your nemesis! So I guess I did see you as a bit reactive.
Anyway, as you know, I fully agree with you about the language thing. I just see it as some people are very rigid on how they see language, because they are taught that way. I've seen so many people online get utterly indignant, even furious, at any idea that language can be done differently (the American v Brit discussions on FB grammar groups get incredibly heated and aggressive), so I figure it's not worth expecting them to change or wasting energy getting angry about it. But I suppose if you're in a grumpy mood, it's a good way to offload grumpiness!
Wrt language I don't want to raise a dead argument.
Hardly.
He doesn't like any disagreement, because he imagines that he is always right, on any subject.
He's not. I'm not either, but at least I have a sense of humor about things that he lacks.
...and what Rossweisse doesn't like is men who believe that they alone own Absolute Truth deliberately misconstruing what has been said about them. For example, Mr. LB has several times accused me of calling him a "crap parent" (citation, please) because I said it was unfortunate that he was encouraging his child to use poor grammar. That's what the "poor kid" was about: not him, but his very bad idea. It is not going to help her in life.
As a parent myself, I think it's a good idea to encourage children to strive for the best, but I have definitely not called him a "crap parent" (not my style, in any case), nor would I. I just think it's best to teach children proper English usage. Mr. Superior's mileage may well vary.
When you called my daughter a "poor kid" because I'm her father and I make my own judgments about what my priorities are for her, you effectively accused me of being a bad parent.
You didn't use the words "crap parent". You didn't need to; it was implicit in your comments
I do not encourage her to use "bad grammar". I do not agree with you about what "bad grammar" is. The usage in question, "Can I have x, please?" in place of your "May I have x, please" is normal, correct, unaffected English here. As I explained, very few people would use "May I have" and it comes over as over-polite and formal. I also explained that people doing exactly what you advocate have confused her to the point she's asking me "May you open this for me please?". But you are so sure of yourself that you're convinced your usage is the only possible acceptable one, to the point that you know better about my daughter, who has special needs, across the sea, whom you have never met, than I do, who have only been her father for ten years, and that I'm failing in my duties as a parent not to do it your way. I think I'm in a better position to know what will help her in life in this environment and in this country than you are, pontificating from a different environment in a different country
And you accuse me of being obsessed that my preferences are the only possible ones.
I had no idea that she had special needs. I just know that you seem to regard disagreement on any subject - whether it's over bicyclists ignoring traffic laws at whim or over any generally-accepted-as-correct usage or custom that you personally dislike - as a form of lèse-majesté, and that you tend to respond to that by going nuclear. It's tiresome.