Puzzler, you are welcome to dine at my table any time. The young lady who is the subject of my OP is not.
And I love Chinese food, especially when it is ordered and consumed the "right" way.
{Miss Amanda girds her loins in anticipation of the opprobrium that remark will engender, over and above that which she has already endured upthread.]
What an odd thing to say. Could the child in Puzzler's post have elbows on the table and knees up? How would you tell?
Somehow you seem to be saying that it is ok to be politely engaged in conversation in a Chinese restaurant situation - whatever your posture - but not in your home.
There is one type of 'elbows on the table' which is very unattractive. The person leans forward with his elbows and forearms beside his plate, as if he were afraid someone might try to snatch it away. On the rare occasions I have seen this, I have looked away and refrained from looking that way again.
This used to be our preferred position when saying grace at home, because otherwise we would open our eyes to a depleted plate and a cat making a hasty exit.
Funnily enough the cat nicked the tuna mayonnaise put out for the jacket potatoes last night. I found it particularly ironic because I've always thought tuna smelled like cat food anyway. But that must have been either a very efficient cat or a long grace!
And now for something completely different--a little humor, to clear the air!
Back in 1969, Disney aired a TV version of "Hans Brinker & The Silver Skates". It was based on the book of the same name, which has to do with Dutch teenage boys in an ice-skating race down a river. This thread made me think of my fave song and scene: "Proper Manners"! (About 3 minutes, 47 seconds.) The boys spend the night at an inn, and the innkeeper (Cyril Ritchard) is none too pleased with their manners. He endeavors to educate them, and it's hilarious.
NOTE: No captioning, I'm afraid, and I couldn't find lyrics. There's at least one full copy of the movie on YouTube, and maybe it has captioning. If anyone's desperate for that, I can take a look.
Ok, there is a captioned version on YouTube, but there's a catch: you can't switch on the captioning unless you have a Google account and log into YouTube with it. That's just mean!
What an odd thing to say. Could the child in Puzzler's post have elbows on the table and knees up? How would you tell? Somehow you seem to be saying that it is ok to be politely engaged in conversation in a Chinese restaurant situation - whatever your posture - but not in your home.
Lordy Lordy, you have a vivid imagination! You should try selling it -- make a fortune.
How irrational of me to favour thinking of people with genuine problems over entitled, selfish twats. I’ve no issue with service animals, except to acknowledge the real conflict between their owners and people with serious allergies.
Well, it is true you did make that distinction. My bad. However, I'm a dog person, so frankly I'd probably still feel happier with the table-manners of most dogs I know than many hoomans!
(Speaking as the one-time owner of a lurcher who would've inhaled food through his arse if he could've got away with it.)
There is one type of 'elbows on the table' which is very unattractive. The person leans forward with his elbows and forearms beside his plate, as if he were afraid someone might try to snatch it away.
This used to be our preferred position when saying grace at home, because otherwise we would open our eyes to a depleted plate and a cat making a hasty exit.
But that must have been either a very efficient cat or a long grace!
I was quite enjoying picturing a cat who had learned that it could do whatever it liked during grace and so leapt up onto the table the minute the praying started knowing it wouldn't have to run until the praying ended.
There is one type of 'elbows on the table' which is very unattractive. The person leans forward with his elbows and forearms beside his plate, as if he were afraid someone might try to snatch it away.
This used to be our preferred position when saying grace at home, because otherwise we would open our eyes to a depleted plate and a cat making a hasty exit.
But that must have been either a very efficient cat or a long grace!
I was quite enjoying picturing a cat who had learned that it could do whatever it liked during grace and so leapt up onto the table the minute the praying started knowing it wouldn't have to run until the praying ended.
I suppose if one's imagination ended there, it would be amusing. However, if one thought about were the cat might have been walking before jumping on the table...
It wasn't a question of taking offence, but it left me puzzled... I did my undergrad at a fairly traditional men's college where we took dinner together. Grace, served at table, etc. When I first arrived, I was appalled at the want of table manners many of them displayed. One of the worst was one fellow who would stab his pork chop with his fork, holding it down as though it might escape the plate, proceed to saw at with his knife, then continue to hold the fork 'backwards' as he delivered a morsel to his mouth. Others displayed similar, if not so cartoonish, behaviour. After getting to know these guys after a couple months, it dawned on me that a lot of them had gone to boarding school, so missed out on the training I got at home on a daily basis.
I don't quite get this - what were you expecting? I may have misunderstood you, but to me this sounds like a perfectly normal British way of eating (although somewhat frenetic).
I don't quite get this - what were you expecting? I may have misunderstood you, but to me this sounds like a perfectly normal British way of eating (although somewhat frenetic).
Yes, I must confess to being slightly mystified as well. Even with a tender piece of meat, one secures the piece one will eat and then cuts it away from the main. I await edification as to why this makes one a barbarian.
I remember one time when I was on a plane, travelling from one part of Canada to another, so the people around me were Canadian, and I caught a glimpse in the window of the reflection of all of us eating our plane dinners. All the Canadians were sitting back, casually, holding just their fork, as if it were a spoon, and scooping up their meal. I was sitting straight, holding both my knife and fork in the way shown in the pic Boogie linked to, and I became very aware that I looked like the odd one out! But this is the eating etiquette of the UK. The Canandian way looked sloppy to me, though I was aware it was different etiquette norms, and I realised I must look odd to them. I found it quite amusing!
We were taught to hold the fork this way at all times - even when eating peas!
I was taught this one, but I don't observe it rigorously because it's stark staring bonkers for things which will just roll off. I rotate my fork according to the position least likely to scatter food all around the table.
I hold my fork in my left hand and knife in my right, as I was taught this was the way, though I am left handed, so in theory should do it the other way - but I notice a lot of left handers do the same as me. It is more convenient as no hand switching need happen if I decide I don't need my knife. Though I find I continue to hold my knofe in general, out of habit, even when I oberve it is serving no purpose! I can feel a bit uneven without it.
No, never wanted to try it the other way - well, maybe I did out of curiosity, but not seriously intending to keep it that way. The way I do it is what I'm used to now. It'd be hard to adjust to the other way.
I used to have a book called Life in Shakespeare's England. It consisted of excerpts from the writings of Shakespeare's contemporaries that shed light on customs.
My favorite excerpt was written by a man who had just returned from living in Italy, where he learned to use a fork. He explained that forks were better than hands "since all men's hands are not alike clean."
Having been reduced to eating in the campus cafeteria once a week (sometimes more) this semester, I'll just say that the number of students I see chewing with their mouths open is truly appalling. I have muttered any number of excuses to avoid sitting with my own students ("Sorry; another time; must prep for next class") for fear of discovering this barbarity in them. And then there's the putting of feet which have recently waded through puddles onto seats, and the young men who manage to take up entire tables with one self, outerwear, backpacks, skateboards, etc. but who insist on sitting "together" at adjoining tables, shouting across at one another, while others roaming the lunchroom searching for a place to sit . . .
We were taught to hold the fork this way at all times - even when eating peas!
I was taught this one, but I don't observe it rigorously because it's stark staring bonkers for things which will just roll off. I rotate my fork according to the position least likely to scatter food all around the table.
Me too - unless I notice everyone else is being polite and keeping the fork in the correct position
I used to keep it in the right position and have fun stabbing and eating one pea at a time as a kid. Now I turn it over like a spoon to scoop the peas, which is quicker, but not so fun, and I find the 'correct' way of holding spoons (and I assume upturned forks) uncomfortable.
It's perfectly ok to eat peas with your fok held upside down and in your right hand - you do need something on the pleat to push them against though. Better to serve either snow peas or sugar snaps though. An added bonus is that they're clearly not just taken from a packet in the freezer.
These kinds of eating taboos - along with injunctions about 'long hair', 'wearing jeans to church', 'speaking with an Essex accent whilst living in Essex' etc - were the music of most of my childhood. I've wondered if the world was different enough a generation before me, that my failure to grasp them really would have been as catastrophic as my parents made out, or if perhaps they were just expressions of my parents' own frustrated social ambitions. That's a real question older shippies, and for info I was born in 1970.
We were taught to hold the fork this way at all times - even when eating peas!
I was taught this one, but I don't observe it rigorously because it's stark staring bonkers for things which will just roll off. I rotate my fork according to the position least likely to scatter food all around the table.
Except when eating a slab of something which I desire to consume in smaller chunks, I do not observe it at all, because it is ridiculous. A fork was obviously designed to be used concave side up. Although, I do not switch hands.* I use what I have just learned is called a hybrid-style. Knife in right hand fork in left. Concave up when eating slab-type foods and concave down when eating more scoop-able morsels.
*The American habit of cutting and eating with the same hand seems a bit odd to me.
For various reasons, as a teenager, I learned to eat a banana with a fruit knife and fork and how to serve myself from a platter being held next to my shoulder. In this millennium I have not found a use for these skills. Nor am I often called upon to wrangle a fish knife.
When I was living in Africa, my missionary colleagues set me up one evening by telling me that I had to eat a squishy mango with a knife and fork. Not recommended.
When I was living in Africa, my missionary colleagues set me up one evening by telling me that I had to eat a squishy mango with a knife and fork. Not recommended.
This is exactly how I eat them. Because they're squishy. Though, as a child, I just peeled and stuffed directly into my mouth, gnawing around the pit.
Ah, bananas. The most manly of fruit. Best peeled ever so slowly with a hint of anticipation and a slight licking of the lips. Then holding the shaft of the fruit gently, fervently, lower your mouth onto the tip of the creamy white flesh, making sure you maintain eye contact with your fellow diners. Slide a inch or so inside, then nip it off with quick bite.
Everyone will be seriously impressed with your immaculate table manners.
For various reasons, as a teenager, I learned to eat a banana with a fruit knife and fork and how to serve myself from a platter being held next to my shoulder. In this millennium I have not found a use for these skills. Nor am I often called upon to wrangle a fish knife.
In polite society in France, one eats peaches and similar fruit with a knife and fork. I much prefer this to using my fingers and ending up with juice up to my elbows. We have what I believe are proper fruit knives in our house although they meet with a variety of uses – they’re quite handy for cheese as well. We don’t have any special forks though, so have to make do with pastry forks.
Fish cutlery is also in regular use chez rouge. It was given to me by my mother, but bizarrely there is only enough for three people, which strikes me as a very strange number. I have no idea why my mother had three fish knives and forks.
Exclaiming noisily to everyone at the table just how juicy your peach is almost the best part of eating a peach, as is the juice dripping down your chin and the sucking that sweet, sweet nectar from your fingers. I also like my plums ripe and bursting with flavour.
And, yes, I've eaten fruit with a knife and fork too. Personally, when told that I'm eating formally and have to eat properly, I select fruit from those on offer that make sense to eat with cutlery, like peaches, rather than bananas.
Comments
What an odd thing to say. Could the child in Puzzler's post have elbows on the table and knees up? How would you tell?
Somehow you seem to be saying that it is ok to be politely engaged in conversation in a Chinese restaurant situation - whatever your posture - but not in your home.
Funnily enough the cat nicked the tuna mayonnaise put out for the jacket potatoes last night. I found it particularly ironic because I've always thought tuna smelled like cat food anyway. But that must have been either a very efficient cat or a long grace!
Back in 1969, Disney aired a TV version of "Hans Brinker & The Silver Skates". It was based on the book of the same name, which has to do with Dutch teenage boys in an ice-skating race down a river. This thread made me think of my fave song and scene: "Proper Manners"! (About 3 minutes, 47 seconds.) The boys spend the night at an inn, and the innkeeper (Cyril Ritchard) is none too pleased with their manners. He endeavors to educate them, and it's hilarious.
NOTE: No captioning, I'm afraid, and I couldn't find lyrics. There's at least one full copy of the movie on YouTube, and maybe it has captioning. If anyone's desperate for that, I can take a look.
Ok, there is a captioned version on YouTube, but there's a catch: you can't switch on the captioning unless you have a Google account and log into YouTube with it. That's just mean!
Anyway, here's the scene (at 47:32), if anyone wants to try.
Lordy Lordy, you have a vivid imagination! You should try selling it -- make a fortune.
And that's the correct way to eat a chop.
harrumph
What do you mean by holding the fork backwards?
We were taught to hold the fork this way at all times - even when eating peas!
I was taught this one, but I don't observe it rigorously because it's stark staring bonkers for things which will just roll off. I rotate my fork according to the position least likely to scatter food all around the table.
I too tend to hold the knife always.
Back in the day you carried your own knife - and spoon also a good idea. This would cope with most things slapped in your trencher.
Fancy cutlery is a things of the last couple of centuries, possibly at its apogee in the 1900s, the era of specialised asparagus forks.
Basically, the eating implements are there to help you eat efficiently and unmessily.
I eat my peas with honey
I’ve done it all my life.
It makes the peas taste funny
But it keeps them on the knife.
My favorite excerpt was written by a man who had just returned from living in Italy, where he learned to use a fork. He explained that forks were better than hands "since all men's hands are not alike clean."
Me too - unless I notice everyone else is being polite and keeping the fork in the correct position
*The American habit of cutting and eating with the same hand seems a bit odd to me.
Everyone will be seriously impressed with your immaculate table manners.
(The one in which she wore a tall hat made of fruit, while she sang and danced.)
It is, however, similar to scenes in "Flashdance" and "Fast Times At Ridgemont Times". They just involved different foodstuffs.
These are a thing of the past, I think?
Fish cutlery is also in regular use chez rouge. It was given to me by my mother, but bizarrely there is only enough for three people, which strikes me as a very strange number. I have no idea why my mother had three fish knives and forks.
Exclaiming noisily to everyone at the table just how juicy your peach is almost the best part of eating a peach, as is the juice dripping down your chin and the sucking that sweet, sweet nectar from your fingers. I also like my plums ripe and bursting with flavour.
I cut them up into a ramekin and eat them with a teaspoon. I’ve just done the same with a juicy pear.
I hate stickiness!
This thread is showing me what a philistine I am. No idea re fruit cutlery. Had to google "ramekin"*. I may as well just use a trough and my mouth.
* I thought it was a fancy shape a la this
I do this!
Or else I chop them up along with a banana and put in yogurt. Or they are quite nice stir fried into a dinner. I love peaches.
And, yes, I've eaten fruit with a knife and fork too. Personally, when told that I'm eating formally and have to eat properly, I select fruit from those on offer that make sense to eat with cutlery, like peaches, rather than bananas.