If You Aren't a Snowflake, What are You?

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  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    What are Broflakes - a new kind of breakfast cereal? :mrgreen:
  • RussRuss Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    Sadly these days, kind and caring is often seen as undesirable. :cry:

    It's not undesirable. It's a Good Thing.

    What's a Bad Thing is when your greater care for one person than another becomes a substitute for thought.

    Not a particularly difficult nuance to grasp, I would have thought, but people these days would so much rather believe the caricature....

    Carry on Caring, Boogie.

  • The ones in my life are vegetarian heading to veganist minimalists. Which means neigh on impossible to share a meal, must always be mindful that they don't drive and why, and there's sign making meetings to go to so too busy anyway. I know we were earnest when young but we didn't have tweeter, farcebook, and the like to tell everyone all the time. And we seemed to gain some practicality by age 30.
  • If you aren't a snowflake you must be saving the cat or seat of the pants.
  • ChoristerChorister Shipmate
    Snowflake - as I've heard the term used means a person who cannot cope with the ordinary rough and tumble of life. So one who would get upset by Waitrose running out of their favourite food, or their fingernail breaking if they tried to do anything practical. The assumption being that we are breeding a nation of snowflakes now that everyone has life so easy compared with eg. the war years.

    The opposite is learning to be resilient (not to run away from difficulty, or dissolve into helplessness, but to have the inner resources to deal with whatever life throws at you). Perhaps it is not accident that some schools are offering 'resilience training' on the curriculum these days.
  • sionisaissionisais Shipmate
    Chorister wrote: »
    Snowflake - as I've heard the term used means a person who cannot cope with the ordinary rough and tumble of life. So one who would get upset by Waitrose running out of their favourite food, or their fingernail breaking if they tried to do anything practical. The assumption being that we are breeding a nation of snowflakes now that everyone has life so easy compared with eg. the war years.

    The opposite is learning to be resilient (not to run away from difficulty, or dissolve into helplessness, but to have the inner resources to deal with whatever life throws at you). Perhaps it is not accident that some schools are offering 'resilience training' on the curriculum these days.

    That is interesting. I am a member of a number of social media groups consisting of ex-armed forces, current armed-forces and armed-forces brats on board. The term "snowflake" gets banded around quite broadly but my opinion , and it isn't much more but I do hold it strongly, is that many of these people are petrified at the prospect of change! Quite why so many of them voted to leave the EU is a mystery (and many did) as the only certainly about that is uncertainty! I wonder if they really are as resilient as all that?

    Resilience in my (painful) experience involves an understanding of the circumstances you can alter, those you can influence and those you can do nothing about whatsoever. Recently our landlord decided to sell up and gave us notice. That was a Category 3. It wasn't going to go away, it cost us quite a bit of cash but we have moved.

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I am faced with significant challenges which I do my best to face, you keep on going on about it, he is a snowflake.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    sionisais wrote: »
    Chorister wrote: »
    Snowflake - as I've heard the term used means a person who cannot cope with the ordinary rough and tumble of life. So one who would get upset by Waitrose running out of their favourite food, or their fingernail breaking if they tried to do anything practical. The assumption being that we are breeding a nation of snowflakes now that everyone has life so easy compared with eg. the war years.

    The opposite is learning to be resilient (not to run away from difficulty, or dissolve into helplessness, but to have the inner resources to deal with whatever life throws at you). Perhaps it is not accident that some schools are offering 'resilience training' on the curriculum these days.

    That is interesting. I am a member of a number of social media groups consisting of ex-armed forces, current armed-forces and armed-forces brats on board. The term "snowflake" gets banded around quite broadly but my opinion , and it isn't much more but I do hold it strongly, is that many of these people are petrified at the prospect of change! Quite why so many of them voted to leave the EU is a mystery (and many did) as the only certainly about that is uncertainty!

    Because they think that it'll usher in the world as they liked it before it all changed. We had this with that twit a few weeks ago on here didn't we "Because of the snowflake trans community getting upset if I misgender them I have to be careful with my pronouns! Is outrage!"?
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I am faced with significant challenges which I do my best to face, you keep on going on about it, he is a snowflake.

    Close. But I have seen it mostly used in the second person. But not so much about life's rough and tumble but about intentional injustices, by the people perpetuating the injustice or benefitting from it.
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    You know what John Cleese had to say on the subject of "snowflakes"?

    https://huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-cleese-snowflake_us_5b42de4ee4b09e4a8b2e8614
  • NicoleMR wrote: »
    You know what John Cleese had to say on the subject of "snowflakes"?

    https://huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-cleese-snowflake_us_5b42de4ee4b09e4a8b2e8614

    I listened to that whole thing and he never mentioned the word "snowflake".
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    Um, did you read the article?
  • NicoleMR wrote: »
    Um, did you read the article?
    Um, it very briefly mentions it. I was expecting an extended exposition on the term to be in the interview. Silly me.
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    edited July 2018
    Why were you expecting that? It was basically "What John Cleese said about the term 'snowflake'". Basically a one sentence statement, "Yes I've heard this word. I think sociopaths use it in an attempt to discredit the notion of empathy ." That's what I posted it for.
  • apostate630apostate630 Shipmate Posts: 8
    NicoleMR wrote: »
    Why were you expecting that? It was basically "What John Cleese said about the term 'snowflake'". Basically a one sentence statement, "Yes I've heard this word. I think sociopaths use it in an attempt to discredit the notion of empathy ." That's what I posted it for.

    Probably to discredit altruism besides, like that toxin who once took human form as Ayn Rand.
  • I was expecting a link to a video with a teaser about the word snowflake to be a video with something about the word snowflake. I can't see how that's a strange or unreasonable expectation.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    Strange and unreasonable is sort of this thread's raison d'être.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    NicoleMR wrote: »
    Why were you expecting that? It was basically "What John Cleese said about the term 'snowflake'". Basically a one sentence statement, "Yes I've heard this word. I think sociopaths use it in an attempt to discredit the notion of empathy ." That's what I posted it for.

    Yes, they emulate empathy when it suits their purpose, but they never feel it or understand its purpose.



  • sionisais wrote: »
    The term "Snowflake" appears to be used to describe anyone who advocates care and mercy for those unlike themselves, especially the disadvantaged and minorities. I've been looking around for a term for those on the other side of the fence, who dish out this term willy-nilly, and I think "Hailstone" is appropriate.

    Hailstones are ugly, cause pain and are generally useless. Why can't they behave like rain, which isn't half as bad. The contrast between Snowflakes and Hailstones is like that between bees and wasps.

    What does the team think?

    If everybody cared and was fair only, we'd starve to death. We wouldn't be human. And the truth is nobody cares. Not that much. Barely enough. And those that only care and are only fair... anyone know anyone like that?
  • Any particular reason for this thread necromancy, or is just that the stars are aligned?
  • Ow-OWWWWWW!!!!
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    Calm down, it's only a gibbous moon, Martin.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    Yeah - still 120 hours to fullness.
  • Now that I've depilated my forehead and around my eyes, being of a twitch of the little finger liberal Christian bent, I don't find it encouraging at all when we criticize and demonize the majority and aggrandize our highly privileged selves.
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Now that I've depilated my forehead and around my eyes, being of a twitch of the little finger liberal Christian bent, I don't find it encouraging at all when we criticize and demonize the majority and aggrandize our highly privileged selves.

    In fairness, Martin, I think a large proportion of people think that they are struggling to keep all the balls in the air - and the wealthy are often more precarious than it appears.

    Which isn't an excuse for ignoring the plight of others. But at the same time, I do think that our national attitude is that of "if you've got it, use it" - so charity only goes so far. It's generally considered sad to hear about the shit other people put up with, but ultimately we all have our own concerns - and beyond giving change, our main responsibility is to ourselves.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited November 2018
    Aye. Which all of us demonstrate. All. Without exception. Those who sacrifice everything for people they don't know don't survive. The religious give 7%, to and thru their religions. The secular 1%. And an order of magnitude less each in time. And no majority will ever again vote for more tax. So we can knowing it will never happen...
  • We are a bungalow nation. Much of the time we keep "everyone else" and their problems safely outside our garden fence.
  • Human normal then, except where the lack of privilege makes us groupish. Or the need to party.
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Human normal then, except where the lack of privilege makes us groupish. Or the need to party.

    I don't think so - there are many communities were large numbers of people work for the greater good.

    That just not the UK in 2018.
  • mr cheesy wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Human normal then, except where the lack of privilege makes us groupish. Or the need to party.

    I don't think so - there are many communities were large numbers of people work for the greater good.

    That just not the UK in 2018.

    Our Church people do.

  • Boogie wrote: »
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Human normal then, except where the lack of privilege makes us groupish. Or the need to party.

    I don't think so - there are many communities were large numbers of people work for the greater good.

    That just not the UK in 2018.

    Our Church people do.

    There are groups who are heroically acting well beyond what could be expected.

    But I'm talking about mass movements - unions, coops, etc. Only with solidarity can you tackle this stuff, and currently we don't have that culture.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Aye. Which all of us demonstrate. All. Without exception. Those who sacrifice everything for people they don't know don't survive. The religious give 7%, to and thru their religions. The secular 1%. And an order of magnitude less each in time. And no majority will ever again vote for more tax. So we can knowing it will never happen...

    Surely it’s possible to give significantly while keeping what you need to survive. So many have much more than they need. Jesus doesn’t say give everything away so you have nothing left. He says if you have two coats, give one away. I’m sure there are people who live this way, but they are not the norm, because it’s seen as quite a radical way to live, and people are more motivated by fear of not having enough, so they like to ensure they have more than enough. But it is possible, if people get beyond that fear.

  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    edited November 2018
    How many actually downsize voluntarily? A tiny number.

    If you have the funds, you keep progressively buying grander housing. If you don't, you aspire to have a grand house.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    That's my point. It's possible, and people do, but they are a minority, because people generally like to have more, and the more they have the more they feel they need. But still, there are people who attempt to live simply and give away what they don't need. Maybe it's more common among poorer people, as they have less to lose, and also because they know what it's like to be in need. It's also the idea behind monastic life, though not always the reality.
  • mr cheesy wrote: »
    How many actually downsize voluntarily? A tiny number.

    If you have the funds, you keep progressively buying grander housing. If you don't, you aspire to have a grand house.
    fineline wrote: »
    That's my point. It's possible, and people do, but they are a minority, because people generally like to have more, and the more they have the more they feel they need. But still, there are people who attempt to live simply and give away what they don't need. Maybe it's more common among poorer people, as they have less to lose, and also because they know what it's like to be in need. It's also the idea behind monastic life, though not always the reality.
    This is the Baby Boomer and perhaps Gen X way of thinking. Baby Boomers are the enemy. Not exhaustive here but they are generally hateful. Just starting with funding of things, they:
    1. spent all the money
    2. ran up national debts
    3. didn't pay for what they got and they get others to pay for everything by, when they were young with the aforementioned debt, and now by refusing to support social programs to help the young
    4. think austerity is okay because everyone must share the pain, which isn't actually what they mean
    5. buy houses on spec which they leave empty or put on AirBnB such that younger people have no place to live
    6. vote for stupid people and stupid things ( not going to elabourate, you know )

    I am a baby boomer. I've been wondering if we might do the world well by discontinuing the right to vote when people get to age 50 or so. Baby boomers keep on whining about themselves. I hate them, and I hate myself for being one.

    What I get from the younger generation is that they are not interested in the brass rings. They want experiences, have limited interests in aspiring to more, rather aspire to have a planet that isn't cooked by the living large of the older people. They want enough, and want quality of life. And they aren't interested in postponing feeling okay until retirement.
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    edited November 2018
    I occasionally have this discussion with older relatives when they rant about pensions or healthcare or roads or schools or whatever.

    Most people in my family were lower middle class - and yet they could afford houses on a single income, they've lived 10 or 20 years longer than their grandparents, they had major (and expensive) life-saving operations in hospital, they were employed for all their lives, they retired on several pensions. Since retirement they've had free public transportation, etc and so on.

    My generation is unlikely to get much of that by the time I retire. My children may not have an NHS or pension at all by the time they retire.

    Actually I don't usually reply to such rants but this is the kind of thought that goes through my head.
  • mr cheesy wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Human normal then, except where the lack of privilege makes us groupish. Or the need to party.

    I don't think so - there are many communities were large numbers of people work for the greater good.

    That just not the UK in 2018.

    I'm open here. Open to both claims. But please, can you put numbers on that?

    How can we quantify that?
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited November 2018
    fineline wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Aye. Which all of us demonstrate. All. Without exception. Those who sacrifice everything for people they don't know don't survive. The religious give 7%, to and thru their religions. The secular 1%. And an order of magnitude less each in time. And no majority will ever again vote for more tax. So we can knowing it will never happen...

    Surely it’s possible to give significantly while keeping what you need to survive. So many have much more than they need. Jesus doesn’t say give everything away so you have nothing left. He says if you have two coats, give one away. I’m sure there are people who live this way, but they are not the norm, because it’s seen as quite a radical way to live, and people are more motivated by fear of not having enough, so they like to ensure they have more than enough. But it is possible, if people get beyond that fear.

    Feels right, true. I want it to be. I'm not measuring up. Too damn scared!
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Martin54 wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Aye. Which all of us demonstrate. All. Without exception. Those who sacrifice everything for people they don't know don't survive. The religious give 7%, to and thru their religions. The secular 1%. And an order of magnitude less each in time. And no majority will ever again vote for more tax. So we can knowing it will never happen...

    Surely it’s possible to give significantly while keeping what you need to survive. So many have much more than they need. Jesus doesn’t say give everything away so you have nothing left. He says if you have two coats, give one away. I’m sure there are people who live this way, but they are not the norm, because it’s seen as quite a radical way to live, and people are more motivated by fear of not having enough, so they like to ensure they have more than enough. But it is possible, if people get beyond that fear.

    Feels right, true. I want it to be. I'm not measuring up. Too damn scared!

    Are you being sarcastic or serious? And if serious, what is the fear, and are there possibly ways to get beyond it? In general, not just for you - but also for you if you like, since you have applied it to yourself. Because surely just saying that's the way it is and nothing can be done about it is a cop out, and if we are serious about following Jesus, we can consider seriously the things he said about giving away an extra coat. Surely we are all scared, but we don't have to stop at fear.

  • fineline wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Aye. Which all of us demonstrate. All. Without exception. Those who sacrifice everything for people they don't know don't survive. The religious give 7%, to and thru their religions. The secular 1%. And an order of magnitude less each in time. And no majority will ever again vote for more tax. So we can knowing it will never happen...

    Surely it’s possible to give significantly while keeping what you need to survive. So many have much more than they need. Jesus doesn’t say give everything away so you have nothing left. He says if you have two coats, give one away. I’m sure there are people who live this way, but they are not the norm, because it’s seen as quite a radical way to live, and people are more motivated by fear of not having enough, so they like to ensure they have more than enough. But it is possible, if people get beyond that fear.

    Feels right, true. I want it to be. I'm not measuring up. Too damn scared!

    Are you being sarcastic or serious? And if serious, what is the fear, and are there possibly ways to get beyond it? In general, not just for you - but also for you if you like, since you have applied it to yourself. Because surely just saying that's the way it is and nothing can be done about it is a cop out, and if we are serious about following Jesus, we can consider seriously the things he said about giving away an extra coat. Surely we are all scared, but we don't have to stop at fear.

    We do. It paralyses us. Very, very few of us - Christians - are incarnational at all to any noticeable degree. Merely creedal. We nearly all cop out. Nearly all of the time. If something can be done about that, please show me. Lead on. Especially anyone in a position of 'leadership'.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    It's not all or nothing though, is it? Surely it's possible to give, to own less, to help others, to make a substantial difference to the lives of others, without necessarily giving up absolutely everything non-essential that you own? Start small, and maybe later you'd feel less scared to give more? There are very simple, practical ways one can make a difference. I'm more interested in focusing on what we can do than on how difficult it is. Because it's all very easy to wax lyrical about the theoretical, and get terribly intellectual about it all, but Jesus calls us to take action, to do things, to love our neighbour as ourselves. And yes, it's difficult, of course, but I'd rather be focusing on what I can do, however small, than pontificating on how no one does anything and nothing can be done. Because better, surely, for Jesus to say 'I was hungry and you fed me' than 'I was hungry and you fed yourself and posted many posts on the Ship of Fools about how it's impossible for people to make a difference in the world.'
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    RooK wrote: »
    I often get the sense that the "rules" the snowflake label-users refer to are meant to be "nature's laws" or the "natural order". ... Maybe it's an unfair caricature. But it certainly feels like the self-assigned image that many loudly profess. #fucktrump
    It sounds right to me.


  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited November 2018
    Aye. Small indeed. I see no one, that's no one, giving it large. If you do, please show me. Someone making a substantial difference to the lives of others who isn't being well paid for it. Please tell me what these very simple, practical ways one can make a difference are. What you know that I don't. I work and walk through a city of beggars. Of addicts. The dispossessed. And those making claims. Sometimes they are the same people. I haven't the faintest idea how to help any of them.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    I also feel sad and helpless when I see homeless people, and so I ask my friends for ideas how I can help them and I pray about it and I try to work something out. I guess it is different for everyone, but here is what I do. I don't have much money, so I do my food shopping when food is reduced. When I am in the city centre, I go to M&S at the time when the food that has reached its sell-by date is reduced very cheap, and I buy food for myself, and I also buy food that can be eaten as it is, like sausage rolls, which might be reduced from £3 to 30p, because I think if I see a homeless person, they might like something to eat. And as I walk from M&S to the bus stop to go home, I see homeless people along the way, and they are sitting there with signs that say they are homeless and that any help would be welcomed, and I ask them if they would like the sausage rolls or sandwiches or whatever else I have bought that could be eaten as it is, and they say yes, and I give it to them.

    I don't know what difference it makes, but it feels more personal and real than giving money - being given a pack of sausage rolls is surely nicer than being given 30p. Because also I know what it is like to be hungry. And so many people just walk past and ignore the homeless people, and I think if it were me sitting there, I would like someone to stop and treat me like a fellow human. If I had better social skills, I would have a conversation with them too, but I am not so good at that. But I do think that just doing something, whatever little you can do, is better than doing nothing, and it does make a difference, and each life is important, so making a difference to just one person is significant. And I know from experience that if you are in a situation where people are hostile or uncaring towards you, a small kindness from a stranger can make a huge difference to mental health and wellbeing and hope. I'm sure there is much more I could be doing, and I don't know what, but I am praying that God guides me, and that I will be open to it.

    Another thing you can do is donate to a foodbank. I know that if the government were better, we wouldn't need foodbanks, and we shouldn't need them, but as it is we do need them, and I know many people genuinely rely on foodbanks and are very grateful when they get food from them. Or you can work as a volunteer at a soup kitchen. These are all simple, practical things people do, which they don't get paid to do, and which do make a difference to individual lives.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    I work with a food program for the poor and homeless. I buy supplies for the program, and attend meals and have made some friends.

    The priest who started the program accepted the challenge to take a defunct church and use it serve the poor as a ministry center- without funds, without salary. She has been creative with fund-raising and spends thousands of her own money from teaching and does hours and hours of work every month to keep this happening. And she loves it! She doesn't consider it a sacrifice and she loves the people she is working with and for. There are people like this out there. Really. The percentages are small but they are there.
  • Thank God. And you and fineline both Lyda.
  • Caissa wrote: »
    " Snowflake" as used to describe individuals on the left is a pejorative.


    So maybe the person who considers themselves to be the opposite of a 'snowflake' could be labelled a 'sociopathic shit' in a completely non-pejorative way?

    Actually, 'snowflake' is a term a bit like 'politically correct'. We know it's a phrase that supposed to offer a balance to being too soft or ridiculously precious about something. But it's usually employed in a negative way by empathy-free bastards who otherwise lack the talent, ability and opportunities to genuinely feel superior to their fellow human beings.
  • Anselmina has it bang-on, and NoProphet_NoProfit too. The lack of empathy is key and most of those who use the term "snowflake" as a pejorative are my baby-boomer contemporaries. How this has come about is a mystery as our parents, most of who lived through the Depression and WW2 rebuilt civilisation and made a better world for us, certainly a better Britain at considerable cost.
  • Whereas we the righteous philosopher kings...
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