Mark, how do you want people to engage with you about this. If they do it with insults, as is the norm in Hell, you simply reply repeatedly with some version of 'Twinkle twinkle little star, what you say is what you are.' So nothing is achieved. It's like dealing with a five year old.
So Mr Cheesy tries a different approach, more directly addressing with you the specific issues that are rubbing people up the wrong way, and you tell him not to patronise.
I'm puzzled. Most people who get called to hell do seem to be trying on some level to get what the issue is, even if they don't agree it's an issue, but I'm not seeing anything like this with you. Do you not want to understand what's going on and have meaningful discussion where people listen to you and don't just get irritated with you? Because so far, that isn't happening. I can't see the point of joining in serious discussion threads if you're just saying things to annoy and alienate people.
Mark, how do you want people to engage with you about this. If they do it with insults, as is the norm in Hell, you simply reply repeatedly with some version of 'Twinkle twinkle little star, what you say is what you are.' So nothing is achieved. It's like dealing with a five year old.
So Mr Cheesy tries a different approach, more directly addressing with you the specific issues that are rubbing people up the wrong way, and you tell him not to patronise.
I'm puzzled. Most people who get called to hell do seem to be trying on some level to get what the issue is, even if they don't agree it's an issue, but I'm not seeing anything like this with you. Do you not want to understand what's going on and have meaningful discussion where people listen to you and don't just get irritated with you? Because so far, that isn't happening. I can't see the point of joining in serious discussion threads if you're just saying things to annoy and alienate people.
I think everyone behaves like a five-year-old on here most of the time. Much of it is just rubbish (I mean in "hell"). OK, I do genuinely get pissed off with the liberal-elite who seem to run purgatory, but I don't really expect to resolve anything here. There isn't any way to resolve it, except leave the forum altogether for a while and come back when I feel like it.
As for Mr Cheesecake - I felt his "different" approach wasn't entirely sincere, but anyway if he was then apologies.
In that case I think we should be commending the little boy who wrote in full sentences all by himself. Great work, Mark. Ask mummy to put a sticker on your chart.
In that case I think we should be commending the little boy who wrote in full sentences all by himself. Great work, Mark. Ask mummy to put a sticker on your chart.
In that case I think we should be commending the little boy who wrote in full sentences all by himself. Great work, Mark. Ask mummy to put a sticker on your chart.
My mum is dead you bastard
And he should know this how? I mean, I feel for your loss, it is not a happy thing. But there is no way Arethosemyfeet could know this.
In that case I think we should be commending the little boy who wrote in full sentences all by himself. Great work, Mark. Ask mummy to put a sticker on your chart.
My mum is dead you bastard
I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe ask whoever looks after you at home?
And just to correct you, my parents are married and were before I was born. Seeing as we're being particular about definitions.
Moving on from Bettsy's mock outrage, I notice now that apparently responding to the alleged poisoning of a member of Pussy Riot by mentioning their activities in the Cathedral is not talking about the poisoning.
I've said before that there should be a word for this line of argument:
A: Cats are fish-eating bastards
B: Mr Tiddles doesn't eat fish.
A: I never said anything about Mr Tiddles! Stop putting words into my mouth!
I think it is probably a mistake to assume any coherence or relation between Mark Betts replies and the posts he is responding to.
Well, we've established that his writing is very advanced for his age. Perhaps if his parent/carer could get in touch we could recommend some help to improve his reading and comprehension. And manners.
Moving on from Bettsy's mock outrage, I notice now that apparently responding to the alleged poisoning of a member of Pussy Riot by mentioning their activities in the Cathedral is not talking about the poisoning.
I've said before that there should be a word for this line of argument:
A: Cats are fish-eating bastards
B: Mr Tiddles doesn't eat fish.
A: I never said anything about Mr Tiddles! Stop putting words into my mouth!
Well, yes.
In fairness, I do think that some Western news reports about the stunt in St Saviour's Cathedral elided the offensiveness of the action. Granted.
But as a line of argument on the Ukraine thread, it is rather wanting in more ways than one.
I put it down to incoherence as much as anything else. Mark Bette's blood is up and he's thrashing around.
That's the kind interpretation.
The other interpretation is that he is simply a knob.
I had an interesting hour reading about the Old Believers the other afternoon. Which is a particularly bizarre story - and which suggests there is at least a nugget of complete incoherence at the heart of Russian Orthodoxy.
I can't find the reference, but someone once wrote that the remarkable thing about Russian Orthodoxy given its Erastianism and so on is that genuine spiritual life survived at all.
My own personal encounters with Russian Orthodox here in the UK has been overwhelmingly positive, but for the most part it's been with priests and people who have chosen to be under the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarch.
I have had some contact with parishes connected with Moscow, but not to the same extent. Again, my personal experience has largely been positive. My online experience less so.
I daresay Mark Bettski would consider the clergy and people I know dangerously liberal.
Obviously there's a nefarious Western plot afoot to undermine the Russian Orthodox from within and to stop them carrying out pogroms and so forth.
In that case I think we should be commending the little boy who wrote in full sentences all by himself. Great work, Mark. Ask mummy to put a sticker on your chart.
My mum is dead you bastard
I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe ask whoever looks after you at home?
And just to correct you, my parents are married and were before I was born. Seeing as we're being particular about definitions.
Just a simple - "I'm sorry, I didn't know" would have been fine. I didn't mean what I said, I was just a bit overwhelmed at that time.
......My own personal encounters with Russian Orthodox here in the UK has been overwhelmingly positive, but for the most part it's been with priests and people who have chosen to be under the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarch...…
I don't know if you're aware, but they have a bit of news of their own you might be interested in.
Gosh! Mind you, looking at the history of the Exarchate in that link it does seem to have had a chequered one. It is, it isn't, it is, it isn't ..
I've met Archbishop John. He seems a lovely man. I also note the values the linked article lists, openness and democracy. From what I've seen of the people involved, I have every confidence that they will rise to this new challenge and make considered arrangements for where they go next in terms of their jurisdictional affiliation.
I wish them well and my prayers are with them during this difficult time of adjustment and change.
As an aside, with so many Orthodox living in the UK, mainly Eastern Europeans and a smattering of converts, wouldn't it be time to organise some kind of British jurisdiction? How about the US, Canada and Australia too and other countries with a large Orthodox 'diaspora'?
The fact that this has yet to happen is nothing short of a scandal, I'd have thought - although I appreciate that it wouldn't be as easy to achieve for the Orthodox as for the RCs with their more centralised system.
At any rate, my first reaction is to feel quite sorry for the Exarchate folk. Many of them were very bruised by Moscow - and yes, there are two sides to every divorce - and I can't see them in a hurry to go back - although perhaps some will.
Let's hope and pray they find a way through the Byzantine morass of Orthodox ecclesial politics.
It's such a shame that a Christian tradition of such beauty, depth and insight should be so hampered by murky ecclesial politics, ethnic divisions and Patriarchal power struggles. What a shame, what a crying shame.
Of course, nobody is saying that the Church on earth is ever going to be perfect this side of the Parousia but there are times when I wonder what any of these shuffles, alliances and realliances have to do with Christ. Perhaps the organic process of the Church growing and developing as the Body of Christ is a painful one. I don't know.
But our Lord promised to build his Church and the gates of Hell would not prevail.
Gosh! Mind you, looking at the history of the Exarchate in that link it does seem to have had a chequered one. It is, it isn't, it is, it isn't ..
I get the impression that the Parishes of Russian Tradition will remain, but they will no longer have their own Archdiocese or their own bishop, but be absorbed into the various Greek Metropolis'.
I have a feeling that they won't like that very much, and some will leave and some churches will close altogether.
I've met Archbishop John. He seems a lovely man. I also note the values the linked article lists, openness and democracy. From what I've seen of the people involved, I have every confidence that they will rise to this new challenge and make considered arrangements for where they go next in terms of their jurisdictional affiliation.
I wish them well and my prayers are with them during this difficult time of adjustment and change.
As an aside, with so many Orthodox living in the UK, mainly Eastern Europeans and a smattering of converts, wouldn't it be time to organise some kind of British jurisdiction? How about the US, Canada and Australia too and other countries with a large Orthodox 'diaspora'?
Yes, this has been suggested, but a British what? A British Patriarchate or a British Metropolis or Autocephalous Church under... who?
The fact that this has yet to happen is nothing short of a scandal, I'd have thought - although I appreciate that it wouldn't be as easy to achieve for the Orthodox as for the RCs with their more centralised system.
It seems like they are not happy that they never requested such a transition, nor were they consulted, which is why some accuse the Patriarch of Constantinople of acting like the Pope.
At any rate, my first reaction is to feel quite sorry for the Exarchate folk. Many of them were very bruised by Moscow - and yes, there are two sides to every divorce - and I can't see them in a hurry to go back - although perhaps some will.
Let's hope and pray they find a way through the Byzantine morass of Orthodox ecclesial politics.
It's such a shame that a Christian tradition of such beauty, depth and insight should be so hampered by murky ecclesial politics, ethnic divisions and Patriarchal power struggles. What a shame, what a crying shame.
It's the bane of Orthodoxy, I am afraid.
Of course, nobody is saying that the Church on earth is ever going to be perfect this side of the Parousia but there are times when I wonder what any of these shuffles, alliances and realliances have to do with Christ. Perhaps the organic process of the Church growing and developing as the Body of Christ is a painful one. I don't know.
You will find Christ in the life of the Church, but not in the political struggles which beset her.
But our Lord promised to build his Church and the gates of Hell would not prevail.
And he should know this how? I mean, I feel for your loss, it is not a happy thing. But there is no way Arethosemyfeet could know this.
It’s his MO. We’re supposed to know what he’s thinking, which – judging from his recent answers in the Ukraine Orthodoxy thread – is totally unrelated to what he’s actually writing. As mr cheesey so elegantly put it:
It has always been his MO. I found* Mark Betts' being called to Hell in June 2012 (link). According to a post by Doc Tor, this was the second Hell call for Mark Betts in a month. And Mark Betts had only been a Shipmate for a month. Nothing, but nothing, has changed.
It has always been his MO. I found* Mark Betts' being called to Hell in June 2012 (link). According to a post by Doc Tor, this was the second Hell call for Mark Betts in a month. And Mark Betts had only been a Shipmate for a month. Nothing, but nothing, has changed.
* I was looking for a book thread from May 2011
Wow the M.O. is amazingly consistent. Right down to saying something, then getting mad at people for not realizing it's not what he meant.
Y'all are kind. Maybe you can help me figure out how Mark Betts has managed to stay 13 years old for the last six and a half years. Do you think he's managed to get trapped in some sort of bubble in the space-time continuum?
I had wondered about bringing this back to Hell, because Mark Betts is not hearing anything that doesn't support his position on Russian Orthodoxy, not that the situation with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church has been divided for decades if not centuries, that Ukraine has reasons to want to separate from Russia, even if some sections want to remain ...
His rigidity of thinking and his difficulties in debating on these boards have not changed since he started on the boards in June 2012 and was called to Hell twice in a month.
No, her [sic] and Mousethief hated the Russians long before they joined the Constantinople Patriarchate, as you ought to know, I certainly know - see the above post. They are converts, who accuse others of having "convertitis".
The wise man speaks of what he knows. The fool makes up shit to feed his prejudices. --Proverbs 98:6.
No, her [sic] and Mousethief hated the Russians long before they joined the Constantinople Patriarchate, as you ought to know, I certainly know - see the above post. They are converts, who accuse others of having "convertitis".
The wise man speaks of what he knows. The fool makes up shit to feed his prejudices. --Proverbs 98:6.
Taking the Lord's name in vain and using foul language. Speaks for itself, doesn't it?
Comments
So Mr Cheesy tries a different approach, more directly addressing with you the specific issues that are rubbing people up the wrong way, and you tell him not to patronise.
I'm puzzled. Most people who get called to hell do seem to be trying on some level to get what the issue is, even if they don't agree it's an issue, but I'm not seeing anything like this with you. Do you not want to understand what's going on and have meaningful discussion where people listen to you and don't just get irritated with you? Because so far, that isn't happening. I can't see the point of joining in serious discussion threads if you're just saying things to annoy and alienate people.
I think everyone behaves like a five-year-old on here most of the time. Much of it is just rubbish (I mean in "hell"). OK, I do genuinely get pissed off with the liberal-elite who seem to run purgatory, but I don't really expect to resolve anything here. There isn't any way to resolve it, except leave the forum altogether for a while and come back when I feel like it.
As for Mr Cheesecake - I felt his "different" approach wasn't entirely sincere, but anyway if he was then apologies.
Outcome: Orthodox Atheism
Hell NO!!!
Damn, I miss that :killingme: emoji.
Like Andrew Squiggle.
I don't think he is.
In that case I think we should be commending the little boy who wrote in full sentences all by himself. Great work, Mark. Ask mummy to put a sticker on your chart.
My mum is dead you bastard
I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe ask whoever looks after you at home?
And just to correct you, my parents are married and were before I was born. Seeing as we're being particular about definitions.
I've said before that there should be a word for this line of argument:
A: Cats are fish-eating bastards
B: Mr Tiddles doesn't eat fish.
A: I never said anything about Mr Tiddles! Stop putting words into my mouth!
Well, we've established that his writing is very advanced for his age. Perhaps if his parent/carer could get in touch we could recommend some help to improve his reading and comprehension. And manners.
Well, yes.
In fairness, I do think that some Western news reports about the stunt in St Saviour's Cathedral elided the offensiveness of the action. Granted.
But as a line of argument on the Ukraine thread, it is rather wanting in more ways than one.
I put it down to incoherence as much as anything else. Mark Bette's blood is up and he's thrashing around.
That's the kind interpretation.
The other interpretation is that he is simply a knob.
My own personal encounters with Russian Orthodox here in the UK has been overwhelmingly positive, but for the most part it's been with priests and people who have chosen to be under the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarch.
I have had some contact with parishes connected with Moscow, but not to the same extent. Again, my personal experience has largely been positive. My online experience less so.
I daresay Mark Bettski would consider the clergy and people I know dangerously liberal.
Obviously there's a nefarious Western plot afoot to undermine the Russian Orthodox from within and to stop them carrying out pogroms and so forth.
Just a simple - "I'm sorry, I didn't know" would have been fine. I didn't mean what I said, I was just a bit overwhelmed at that time.
They've crossed the Tiber?
They've all become Buddhists or atheists or adherents of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Given the convoluted nature of Orthodox jurisdictional issues and spats, nothing would surprise me.
Nope. Constantinople have decided they are to be abolished:
RUE DARU RESPONDS: COMMUNIQUÉ OF THE ARCHDIOCESAN COUNCIL OF THE RUSSIAN ARCHDIOCESE OF WESTERN EUROPE
I've met Archbishop John. He seems a lovely man. I also note the values the linked article lists, openness and democracy. From what I've seen of the people involved, I have every confidence that they will rise to this new challenge and make considered arrangements for where they go next in terms of their jurisdictional affiliation.
I wish them well and my prayers are with them during this difficult time of adjustment and change.
As an aside, with so many Orthodox living in the UK, mainly Eastern Europeans and a smattering of converts, wouldn't it be time to organise some kind of British jurisdiction? How about the US, Canada and Australia too and other countries with a large Orthodox 'diaspora'?
The fact that this has yet to happen is nothing short of a scandal, I'd have thought - although I appreciate that it wouldn't be as easy to achieve for the Orthodox as for the RCs with their more centralised system.
At any rate, my first reaction is to feel quite sorry for the Exarchate folk. Many of them were very bruised by Moscow - and yes, there are two sides to every divorce - and I can't see them in a hurry to go back - although perhaps some will.
Let's hope and pray they find a way through the Byzantine morass of Orthodox ecclesial politics.
It's such a shame that a Christian tradition of such beauty, depth and insight should be so hampered by murky ecclesial politics, ethnic divisions and Patriarchal power struggles. What a shame, what a crying shame.
Of course, nobody is saying that the Church on earth is ever going to be perfect this side of the Parousia but there are times when I wonder what any of these shuffles, alliances and realliances have to do with Christ. Perhaps the organic process of the Church growing and developing as the Body of Christ is a painful one. I don't know.
But our Lord promised to build his Church and the gates of Hell would not prevail.
I have a feeling that they won't like that very much, and some will leave and some churches will close altogether. Yes, this has been suggested, but a British what? A British Patriarchate or a British Metropolis or Autocephalous Church under... who?
It seems like they are not happy that they never requested such a transition, nor were they consulted, which is why some accuse the Patriarch of Constantinople of acting like the Pope. It's the bane of Orthodoxy, I am afraid.
You will find Christ in the life of the Church, but not in the political struggles which beset her.
He did indeed.
And I have to say that it was quite amusing to be labelled as part of ‘the liberal elite.’ Anyone who knows me would laugh out loud.
* I was looking for a book thread from May 2011
Wow the M.O. is amazingly consistent. Right down to saying something, then getting mad at people for not realizing it's not what he meant.
Heh heh heh ...
I haven't learned to post with more brevity either.
Dang.
Yes, she does.
BTW: good to see you, Josephine.
His rigidity of thinking and his difficulties in debating on these boards have not changed since he started on the boards in June 2012 and was called to Hell twice in a month.
The wise man speaks of what he knows. The fool makes up shit to feed his prejudices. --Proverbs 98:6.
Taking the Lord's name in vain and using foul language. Speaks for itself, doesn't it?
"Thou hypocrite!"