Break Glass - 2020 USA Elections

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  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    If Biden wants to win the election, he won't name Hillary Clinton as his running mate.
    I agree, and I can't see him going along with the rest of this plan.

    How about Amy Klobuchar as his running mate? She was certainly kissing up to him when she ended her campaign.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Damn. I really wanted to see Gen Xers or Millennials step up to the plate. They had some possibles, but the Boomers are still too powerful.

    Neither Joe Biden nor Bernie Sanders is a Boomer. They're members of the Silent Generation. To date no Silent has ever been President of the United States.

    I did not say Biden or Sanders was a boomer. I said the Boomer generation, who is voting for them, still has too much sway.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Pigwidgeon--

    A couple years back, I imagined a more elaborate scenario:

    T never really wanted to be president. So he resigns, and Pence becomes (acting) prez. He winds up bringing Hillary in as VP. Then Pence resigns. Hillary becomes prez.


    ;) makes me think of "Jurassic Park" (YouTube):

    Ian: God creates dinosaurs...God destroys dinosaurs...God creates Man...Man destroys God...Man creates dinosaurs...

    Ellie: ...Dinosaurs eat Man...Woman inherits the Earth!
    ;)

  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Twilight wrote: »
    I'm so afraid. Why has it come down to this? Why couldn't my party have found a well-spoken, good looking, 60-something, moderate, male, with political experience, a clean record and a few feasible plans? Did they think about it? Did they look? Did they check the peanut farms in Georgia?
    Twilight wrote: »
    From Elizabeth Warren's speech today:
    "I say this with a deep sense of gratitude for every single person who got in this fight, every single person who tried out a new idea, every single person who just moved a little in their notion of what a President of the United States should look like."

    That last part made me a bit weepy. I think she may have done a whole lot more than she knows toward moving people in their notion of what a President should look like and that's really kind of huge. Maybe next time.

    That's a pretty big change in perspective in just 24 hours.

    Yes as Ruth and Golden Key kindly explained for me, I would have loved to have Elizabeth Warren for president, but when I posted the top quote, she was already considered almost out of the race and the post just before mine had commented that Biden was having lots of senior moments and we can bet Trump will jump on every one. That's the moment I was wishing that our last two candidates standing were people who seemed invincible to Trump's slurs and attacks -- that would have been the mythical younger, male, not too short, perfect record, etc.

    Ironically it was you, with your post about Derverger's law that got me thinking I should put away my notions of voting for a no-chance of winning woman like Gabbard and focus on the person most likely to beat Trump.
  • As far as I'm concerned, the current candidates just mean that the VP spot is going to be that much more important. Because age and odds of death/disability/dementia.
    But a demented president is still better than a demented MALICIOUS president.

    Don't know about that. Ronald Reagan was demented and a truly evil bastard. It is true that he didn't know reality from a movie set, thinking he was WW2 veteran when all he did was act in B grade movies, but he also created a terrible arms race, exploited the third world, illegally funded murderous fascist dictatorships, created the unholy atheist alliance with satanic southern baptist evangelicals, among other stupidity. The problem with Don trump is only that he's honest about what your Republicans are about. They've been a-holes forever.

    WOULD YOU PLEASE STOP WITH THE "YOUR" REPUBLICANS THING!!!!????

    As for them being assholes forever, I am technically STILL a damned Republican, and intend to stay one long enough to vote against He Who Must Not Be Named in the primary ( less than a week from now).

    Get over yourself.

    Sorry but not sorry. It's really pretty terrible that abortion as a single issue has led millions of people to vote for thoroughly defective people to run your country, whose ideas basically include hatred for others. Walls. Travel Bans. Illegal wars based on false intel. Torture. Rendition. Drones. Guns. Whose policies and behaviour have led to millions of deaths around the world. Not saying the other party is all grand and great, but it appears that America's religious extremism and abortion-as-the-only-issue has led to what's there today. I don't actually think trump is worse that the torture president George Bush, he's just less polite. Thank-you is due to trump for being honest about his stupidity and depravity.

    The Corruption of the Republican Party - The Atlantic - which damns the Republicans since at least 1964: "modern conservatism would never stop flirting with hostility toward whole groups of Americans", which is broadened now to whole groups of people around the world.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Hedgehog wrote: »
    And if Biden wins the election, you can bet the Congressional Republicans

    If Biden wins the election then you'll get a greater Trump in 4 years time; the entire reason we are where we are is because of successive neoliberal administrations, with centrists triangulating by pushing the racism button.

    I'm not sure about this. I wonder what others think. I'm going to copy this message over to the Trump Presidency Discussion Thread as I think a detailed discussion is out of place here.

  • As far as I'm concerned, the current candidates just mean that the VP spot is going to be that much more important. Because age and odds of death/disability/dementia.
    But a demented president is still better than a demented MALICIOUS president.

    Don't know about that. Ronald Reagan was demented and a truly evil bastard. It is true that he didn't know reality from a movie set, thinking he was WW2 veteran when all he did was act in B grade movies, but he also created a terrible arms race, exploited the third world, illegally funded murderous fascist dictatorships, created the unholy atheist alliance with satanic southern baptist evangelicals, among other stupidity. The problem with Don trump is only that he's honest about what your Republicans are about. They've been a-holes forever.

    WOULD YOU PLEASE STOP WITH THE "YOUR" REPUBLICANS THING!!!!????

    As for them being assholes forever, I am technically STILL a damned Republican, and intend to stay one long enough to vote against He Who Must Not Be Named in the primary ( less than a week from now).

    Get over yourself.

    Sorry but not sorry. It's really pretty terrible that abortion as a single issue has led millions of people to vote for thoroughly defective people to run your country, whose ideas basically include hatred for others. Walls. Travel Bans. Illegal wars based on false intel. Torture. Rendition. Drones. Guns. Whose policies and behaviour have led to millions of deaths around the world. Not saying the other party is all grand and great, but it appears that America's religious extremism and abortion-as-the-only-issue has led to what's there today. I don't actually think trump is worse that the torture president George Bush, he's just less polite. Thank-you is due to trump for being honest about his stupidity and depravity.

    The Corruption of the Republican Party - The Atlantic - which damns the Republicans since at least 1964: "modern conservatism would never stop flirting with hostility toward whole groups of Americans", which is broadened now to whole groups of people around the world.

    I avoided this thread overnight precisely because you'd wound me up so tight. I was in fact considering posting that I would NOT in fact be leaving the Republican Party, simply because you were being such an asshole about it. The only thing that prevented me posting that (and then having to stick to it) was the mental picture of having to explain to my grandchildren how it came about that I stayed...)

    NOW:

    You CANNOT count on the average person to be that clearheaded. And I was decidedly on the far edge of clear-headed last night, as a result of your pattern of posting, which you are now continuing above in your "sorry not sorry" post.

    You are shooting yourself in the damned foot.

    What's worse, you are shooting the rest of the world in their collective damned foot as well. Why?

    This is not Hell, and I have rather liked you in the past, so prefer NOT to start a Hell thread for you, and thus I am limited in my ability to adequately explain just what your posting style is doing to me. AND TO ANYBODY ELSE LIKE ME, AND DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE I AM THE ONLY ONE IN THE ENTIRE FREAKING UNITED STATES?

    I will now avoid posting on this thread for another 24 hours, for fear of crossing Hell boundaries.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Ruth wrote: »
    If Biden wants to win the election, he won't name Hillary Clinton as his running mate.

    Agreed. Pity he can't name Fiona Hill (naturalised US citizen). The sharpest knife amongst the witnesses. (I reckon she'd be a pretty good SecState).
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    If Biden wants to win the election, he won't name Hillary Clinton as his running mate.

    Agreed.

    Leaving aside all the Clinton-specific political baggage, a 78 year old (on Inauguration Day 2021) presidential candidate is not going to reassure anyone by having a 73 year old (ditto) running mate.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Clinton is unlikely, if not out.

    In the past VP's have been chosen for their ability to be an attack dog (like LBJ for JFK) as well as being able to build coalitions in the Senate (ibid). Kampala Harris and Amy Kolbuchar are known for being prosecutors, but the down slide is they turn off the black vote). Elizabeth Warren is definitely and attack dog and has a history in the Senate. She could also keep some of the progressive wing mollified.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    In the past VP's have been chosen for their ability to be an attack dog (like LBJ for JFK) as well as being able to build coalitions in the Senate (ibid). Kampala Harris and Amy Kolbuchar are known for being prosecutors, but the down slide is they turn off the black vote). Elizabeth Warren is definitely and attack dog and has a history in the Senate. She could also keep some of the progressive wing mollified.

    I'm not sure of the logic by which Kamala Harris, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, would "turn off the black vote".

    The biggest downside of Elizabeth Warren as vice president is Charlie Baker, the Republican Governor of Massachusetts who would be the one filling the vacancy she left in the Senate. Given how dependent a Democratic president is going to be on the Senate and what a long shot it is for Democrats to take back that body in the first place, handing the Republicans a free seat from Massachusetts seems like a massive unforced error.
  • @Lamb Chopped I am not meaning to wind anyone in particular up. But I am surveying the damage to the world in general done by this particularly deformed set of politicians and this party. I'm at least as dismayed as you, for different reasons, with this modern conservatism and its alleged goodness via a willing liaison with particular (and very peculiar in my view) ideas about everyone's social behaviour that they suggest is grounded in something Christian, while also speaks to the evils of religious alliance with political power in general. I don't recognize it as such, it looks the opposite, and recognize the ongoing harm to the world from the ideology. The separation of church and state Americans define as a principle seems untrue. Imagine defunding family planning clinics in the third world for example because they don't subscribe to your ethos, even while your corporations are taking their natural resources. America, although 5% of the world's population is like the veritable elephant crowding the communal, rather small bed with us, as a former PM of Canada noted, where it is impossible not to notice every , subtle movement, squeak and grunt.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited March 6
    Without naming specific names here are what I see as a few criteria for a Biden running mate.
    • Someone in their 50s, or maybe late 40s. Anyone older heightens questions about Biden's age. Anyone younger makes Biden look old when put side-by-side.
    • No sitting Senators from states with Republican governors. Ideally not a sitting Senator at all, unless it's someone who has announced they're leaving at the end of 2020. (Tom Udall is the only Democratic Senator who has announced his retirement at this point, but he fails the age criterion.)
    • Strong connection to some electorally significant swing state. Ideally an electorally significant swing state with a vulnerable Republican Senator up for re-election. Get a "bank shot" on increased voter turnout in that state.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    NH has 2 female Dem senators and a "weak" (2-year) governorship, and the incumbent (Sununu son) is up for re-election anyway. While both Senators fall upward of your age range (Shaheen is 73, Hassan 62), there's at least a fair chance that it would be a Dem replacing either one. At least one Dem challenger for the governorship (Feltes, not necessarily Volinsky) is in a pretty strong position to take the corner office.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    (((lamb chopped))) I really know that wound up feeling. Its terrible.
  • Soror MagnaSoror Magna Shipmate
    The Republican Party's greatest accomplishment in the last 50 years was convincing Americans that government "of the people, by the people, and for the people" was a lie and that the scariest words were "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." Second greatest accomplishment was convincing ordinary Americans that if the rich got richer, they would too. How's that working out for y'all?

    Whataboutery and establishment politics aside, Democrats at least still believe government can make things better for its citizens. Republicans have decided that the only legitimate role for government is getting all up in American women's reproductive systems.





  • Soror MagnaSoror Magna Shipmate
    Almost forgot: the third accomplishment of the Southern Strategy. Republicans now claim "we're not racist because Lincoln" while flying the Confederate flag .... you have to be pretty ignorant of American history to fall for that one.
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    Republicans have decided that the only legitimate role for government is getting all up in American women's reproductive systems.
    Actually, no. Republican pretend that government should have no role, but what is really meant is that government's role should benefit their agenda. Which has become make rich people richer at the expense of everyone else.
    Almost forgot: the third accomplishment of the Southern Strategy. Republicans now claim "we're not racist because Lincoln" while flying the Confederate flag .... you have to be pretty ignorant of American history to fall for that one.
    And just plain stupid. All one need do is look at the effects of Republican policy to know that the party is effectively racist.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Looks like the road to the Democratic Nomination hangs on the Michigan Primary vote. If it breaks for Biden, I just do not see how Sanders can get enough votes to overtake Biden. Sanders will have to really beat Biden in Michigan. Polls are saying that is not likely. Depressed
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    How's that working out for y'all?

    This is uncalled for.
  • Ruth wrote: »
    How's that working out for y'all?

    This is uncalled for.

    It's the same thing I'm upset about. Why heap more grief on top of American Shipmates who are doing what lies in them to make things better?

    And no, Nonprophet, it does not help for you to justify yourself by saying "But the Republicans' sins are so huge." Yes. Yes, they are. And if you suffer for them, how much more do we?

    If people would PLEASE refrain from casting Shipmates as the enemy, I'd greatly appreciate it.
  • Again, I was not directing my comments at any shipmate.
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    Doesn't matter -- only shipmates are reading your comments.
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    How's that working out for y'all?

    This is uncalled for.
    How is it uncalled for? Reagan's trickle-down is still believed. The American Dream rubbish is still promoted. No, not all American's fall for that, but many do, especially Republicans. The Republican Party is not getting more egalitarian, even if a few of its members are.
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    Jesus, I can't believe I have to explain this.

    When you ask someone who's clearly made a bad choice, and they know it's a bad choice, "How's that working out for you?", it's sarcastic and mean. In this case, she asked this of a whole bunch of people who are affected by bad choices the country has collectively made but who didn't individually make or even in many cases agree with those choices.

    You want to tell Americans here on the Ship that the American dream is trash? Please. We know. We're here. My rent goes up at least 5% every year, and my pay doesn't even go up 2%. I have friends who don't go to the doctor because they don't have health insurance, and I have friends who have declared bankruptcy because of medical bills. I have friends who are living on disability and others working full-time who are all one minor disaster away from couch-surfing.

    I'm not saying Soror Magna is wrong about what the Republican Party has done in the U.S. (though I'd argue that Americans have tended to think they're all only temporarily not rich for a lot more than 50 years). I'm saying tacking on "How's that working out for y'all?" was unnecessary and rude.
  • edited March 7
    Ruth wrote: »
    Doesn't matter -- only shipmates are reading your comments.
    Disagree. Any one can personalise anything. My initial post was not about a shipmate. I probably should not have been quite as vigourous in my response to the shipmate who reacted and personalized, and I did contribute to her sense of personalizing it when I responded to her response, which isn't nice of me. I am sorry for that, but I am not sorry for raising the points I did. I generally control my emotions in real life, on the ship, I am less reserved and because of that less polite. I have not found the balance and prospects are low from experience because it is a much more recently adopted mode of communication to type things that to talk where tone, timbre, volume of voice, facial expression and body language are all not present here. I am considerably more intuitive in real life, and not at all in a forum where these cues are absent.

    Just a little more, and I'll stop this tangent. I have no idea who is a card carrying member of a political party. I have more idea of their religious adherence because we discuss that more, but understanding of that is incomplete too. The ship is also a place where we find that we change because of discussion and confrontation of beliefs and biases. The Purgatory form is described as "Pull up a chair, get your brain in gear, and prepare for some serious time in Purgatory. This is our proper debate space for theology, ethics, politics, science, tech and culture." Some debate provokes. That is what debate is isn't it?

    As far as I understand it, Admins (you are one) can tell us that we're over-stepping debate, and usually put a message on the topic. This has not occurred here, but if there is a host/admin ruling, please let me know.
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    Ruth wrote: »
    Jesus, I can't believe I have to explain this.

    When you ask someone who's clearly made a bad choice, and they know it's a bad choice, "How's that working out for you?", it's sarcastic and mean. In this case, she asked this of a whole bunch of people who are affected by bad choices the country has collectively made but who didn't individually make or even in many cases agree with those choices.

    You want to tell Americans here on the Ship that the American dream is trash? Please. We know. We're here. My rent goes up at least 5% every year, and my pay doesn't even go up 2%. I have friends who don't go to the doctor because they don't have health insurance, and I have friends who have declared bankruptcy because of medical bills. I have friends who are living on disability and others working full-time who are all one minor disaster away from couch-surfing.

    I'm not saying Soror Magna is wrong about what the Republican Party has done in the U.S. (though I'd argue that Americans have tended to think they're all only temporarily not rich for a lot more than 50 years). I'm saying tacking on "How's that working out for y'all?" was unnecessary and rude.
    The collective decisions are the decisions that matter most. Not that it is unimportant that individuals make different choices, it is important. But there is a collective responsibility in belonging to an entity, unless one is actively trying to change that entity. Even then, there can be residual responsibility.
    Let's take a simpler example. The NRA could not give two shits that most of its membership supports more gun control than currently exists. Every member in it supports the batshit extreme view of those who run it, despite their personal views, because change is not happening.
    The Republican Party is more complex than that, but it is not progressing, it is entrenching. So at what point does not supporting the policies of a party whist still being a member matter? I'm not saying it doesn't at all, but I am questioning how much.
    I read her post as frustration with the situation, not intentional rudeness. Perhaps because that is where I stand.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Chiming in with Ruth and LC.

    I'm trying to word this very carefully, and within Purg. guidelines.

    ISTM that people all over the world are some degree of freaked out, for all sorts of reasons. IMHO, feels like the human world is coming to a rapid boil. (Not talking at this moment about climate change.) Corona virus, politics, war, inequality, etc. Plus personal lives and circumstances. US elections. Brexit.

    ISTM that some of the more recent comments on this thread are echoes of past trashing of the US, and made by Shipmates who TTBOMK aren't Americans, but feel they are qualified to school American Shipmates--with no need for humility.

    If American Shipmates were ever to post about other countries the way non-American Shipmates post about the US, there'd be a massive flame war. We try to avoid those.

    I'm *not* remotely suggesting a flame war. But I think that, given that people are already so much on edge about the things I mentioned, we'd all be wise to cut each other some slack, try not to step on toes, and try to keep in mind how we'd like to be treated if in the same situation.

    Otherwise, I'm concerned that (with all the current stressors around the world) someone (from whatever group/country) will remark incautiously about someone else (from whatever group/country)--and...sparks.

    tl;dr: Try a little kindness.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    amen.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    [Some debate provokes. That is what debate is isn't it?

    No. Debate is exchange of ideas and the facts and reasoning behind those ideas. Sometimes that provokes. But that's not a necessary part of any debate.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    edited March 8
    I'm clear about where some Shipmates live, not so clear about others. But recent posts have included stuff which is akin to pond war debates of the past and have proved to be very destructive. They are out of bounds here.

    The boundary is clear. Vigorous criticisms of political policies and actions in any nation are open territory to any Shipmate. Lumping all citizens of that nation together in such criticisms is out of bounds.

    No more general warnings after this one. Shipmates breaching this reminder of our policy will be named and referred to Admin.

    Barnabas62
    Purgatory Host
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    In non-presidential election news (or recently-but-no-longer presidential election news, I guess) Montana Governor Steve Bullock, who recently ran unsuccessfully for the Democratic party's presidential nomination, has announced that he will be running for Senate in Montana. I've long maintained that Bullock's energies were better directed towards a Senate run and I'm glad to see he's finally taken my advice.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    It's Tuesday again, which means it's election day in the U.S. again. Six states (Michigan, Washington, Missouri, Mississippi, Idaho, and North Dakota) cast their ballots today, plus the Democrats Abroad caucus finalizes their voting today. There are a total of 365 pledged delegates at stake in these seven contests. The current standings after last week's Super Tuesday elections are:

    1. Joe Biden - 670
    2. Bernie Sanders - 574
    X. Dropout Candidates - 163
    ?. ??? - 90
    3. Tulsi Gabbard - 2

    Yes, there are still 90 pledged delegates still unassigned from Super Tuesday, mostly from California. Lots of mail in ballots in that state.

    The big contest today is Michigan, worth 125 pledged delegates. Sanders won this state by a very slim margin in 2016, but that narrow win energized his flagging campaign (he massively over-performed his poll numbers) and convinced him to carry on, turning the 2016 Democratic primary into the close-fought contest we all remember. Sanders is pouring everything into Michigan and Biden seems to be following suit. We'll see where this ends up.

    Washington state is currently ground zero for the U.S. outbreak of COVID-19. This could cause all kinds of problems with lots of people gathering in groups at polling stations to cast their ballots, except that Washington votes entirely by mail. This may be something other states should look at if COVID-19 persists through the fall.
  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host, 8th Day Host
    edited March 10
    Thanks for the reminder about mail in votes. I had been meaning to check to make sure mine had been received. It had! Florida primary is a week from today.
    (Go Joe!)
  • Serious question: I've kept mostly up-to-date with the Democratic nomination process in the UK press, and have some idea about some of the candidates' (Warren, Sanders) platforms. But I've not really heard anything about Biden's policies, other than he's not Trump. Is there anything distinctive about his bid, or is he just the centre-right candidate that the Democratic Party machine always seem to prefer?
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Washington state is currently ground zero for the U.S. outbreak of COVID-19. This could cause all kinds of problems with lots of people gathering in groups at polling stations to cast their ballots, except that Washington votes entirely by mail. This may be something other states should look at if COVID-19 persists through the fall.

    Washington State is one of the few states that has 100% mail in ballots. About the only precaution that I have heard of is for poll workers who will feed the ballots into the counting machines are to wear gloves and to sanitize their work area every few minutes.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Serious question: I've kept mostly up-to-date with the Democratic nomination process in the UK press, and have some idea about some of the candidates' (Warren, Sanders) platforms. But I've not really heard anything about Biden's policies, other than he's not Trump. Is there anything distinctive about his bid, or is he just the centre-right candidate that the Democratic Party machine always seem to prefer?

    Biden is what passes for a center-left candidate in American politics, which gives you an idea how far American political discourse skews to the right. He has some policy positions (non-Americans please ignore the prominently displayed donation buttons on that website) that can mostly be described as "Barack Obama's third term", but you're right that his main appeal is what another presidential candidate once referred to as "a return to normalcy".
  • Well, I've voted for the last time as a Republican. And of course, I picked the only candidate running who was not You-Know-Who.

    Not that it'll make any difference. But it had to be done.
  • PendragonPendragon Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Washington state is currently ground zero for the U.S. outbreak of COVID-19. This could cause all kinds of problems with lots of people gathering in groups at polling stations to cast their ballots, except that Washington votes entirely by mail. This may be something other states should look at if COVID-19 persists through the fall.

    Washington State is one of the few states that has 100% mail in ballots. About the only precaution that I have heard of is for poll workers who will feed the ballots into the counting machines are to wear gloves and to sanitize their work area every few minutes.

    I get the impression looking at the map that that's born out of geographic pragmatism. I'd imagine the responsible authorities would have to decide that at least 2 months in advance for a national roll-out to get the paperwork printed and. It might have a knock-on effect of negating some issues with electronic polling machines, but given some of the horror stories that have emerged on both sides of the pond about postal voting, they would have to run a very slick operation to prevent challenges based on disenfranchising people.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    The big contest today is Michigan, worth 125 pledged delegates. Sanders won this state by a very slim margin in 2016, but that narrow win energized his flagging campaign (he massively over-performed his poll numbers) and convinced him to carry on, turning the 2016 Democratic primary into the close-fought contest we all remember. Sanders is pouring everything into Michigan and Biden seems to be following suit. We'll see where this ends up.
    And it has ended up with Biden carrying Michigan. And Missouri and Mississippi, so far.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited March 11
    Pendragon wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Washington state is currently ground zero for the U.S. outbreak of COVID-19. This could cause all kinds of problems with lots of people gathering in groups at polling stations to cast their ballots, except that Washington votes entirely by mail. This may be something other states should look at if COVID-19 persists through the fall.

    Washington State is one of the few states that has 100% mail in ballots. About the only precaution that I have heard of is for poll workers who will feed the ballots into the counting machines are to wear gloves and to sanitize their work area every few minutes.

    I get the impression looking at the map that that's born out of geographic pragmatism. I'd imagine the responsible authorities would have to decide that at least 2 months in advance for a national roll-out to get the paperwork printed and. It might have a knock-on effect of negating some issues with electronic polling machines, but given some of the horror stories that have emerged on both sides of the pond about postal voting, they would have to run a very slick operation to prevent challenges based on disenfranchising people.

    We have been doing mail-in voting for nearly 20 years. I was doing absentee voting for 10 years before that. Just this afternoon, I was told we were not to lick the envelopes. Damn, I already did it.

    The state pays the postage for all ballots. Myself, I drop mine off at a receiving station downtown.

    We have had no known instance of voter fraud ever.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Well, I've voted for the last time as a Republican. And of course, I picked the only candidate running who was not You-Know-Who.

    Not that it'll make any difference. But it had to be done.

    ((LC))

    Massive support from here. Even though, as you say, it had to be done, I recognise and appreciate that it is paradigm shifting on a personal level.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    {{{{{{{LC}}}}}}}

    And may no one, anywhere, hassle you about it.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Super Tuesday 2 results (especially Michigan) suggest strongly that Bernie now has very little chance of beating Joe. If he keeps on going, I suppose there is still some chance of a deadlocked Democratic National Convention. But I think the only person who would benefit from that would be Trump.

    Time to unite?
  • Probably. Thanks, guys.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited March 11
    I think it is important for Bernie to debate Biden in order to make a clear distinction between the progressive (I am one of them) positions and the centrist positions of Biden. Besides, I am very concerned about Biden's cognitive abilities--there are times he seems very befuddled. Our country has already had one president--Reagan--who clearly had dementia in the last couple of years of his tenure. Trump also has some cognitive impairment it seems. I just don't want someone can't think clearly having access to the nuclear football.

    Then too, this could very well be a way for the Sanders camp to influence the Democratic Platform--to see if they will at least adjust some of their positions.

    And it can very well be a push to get a progressive VP on board. Probably not Sanders, though.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    I think it is important for Bernie to debate Biden in order to make a clear distinction between the progressive (I am one of them) positions and the centrist positions of Biden.
    The distinctions are already clear; yet another debate will do nothing to make them clearer.

    The problem isn’t that the distinctions aren’t clear. The problem, from the progressive standpoint, is that Sanders hasn’t been able to convince enough primary voters that he, rather than Biden, stands a better chance of beating Trump. Sanders hasn’t been able to demonstrate that he can expand his base; in fact, his base seems to have shrunk.

    Biden and his people need to pay attention and put some real and sincere effort to connecting with the progressives in Bernie’s base. I think that’s what Andrew Yang’s endorsement of Biden is about. Maybe Bernie is staying in to try to be in a position to negotiate some of that.

  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited March 11
    I can think of at least two good reasons to continue the Democratic Presidential Primary; Jill Karofsky and Nate McMurray. "Who the Hell are they?" you may ask if you don't bother clicking those links. For the click-impaired they're the Democratic candidates for Wisconsin's Supreme Court (technically a non-partisan race, but Karofsky's opponent is a stalwart of the conservative faction of the WSC) and the special election to fill the seat from New York's 27th U.S. Congressional District. Those elections take place on the same day as the Democratic primaries in their respective states (quelle coïncidence!) and anything which encourages Democrats to go to the polls on those days (like a still-being-fought presidential race) is all to the good.

    Plus if the Democratic primary has now come down to Biden vs. Sanders, it seems like a good idea to have one debate where they go head-to-head.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Fair enough as to how the presidential primary effects primaries down-ballot, as in the Wisconsin example.

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