Break Glass - 2020 USA Elections

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  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    You might not have noticed, but what a difference two weeks have made in the tone we are hearing from the White House.

    First of March, "This is a small problem, it will go away by April"

    "We only need $2 billion to fight this."

    "Okay, I will take $9 billion."

    Today: "We are submitting an $850 billion (let's make it a trillion) aid package."

    Someone posted, "It only takes a pandemic; and, all of a sudden, everyone is a socialist
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    edited March 17
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Dave W wrote: »

    We have always been at war with Eastvirus.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    I think last night's primary results closed the door on any realistic prospect of a Bernie Sanders win. Joe Biden will be the Democratic candidate.

    The big question now is 'what will Bernie do?'
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited March 18
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    I think last night's primary results closed the door on any realistic prospect of a Bernie Sanders win. Joe Biden will be the Democratic candidate.

    According to my calculations based on the returns so far, Joe Biden needs to win 835 more pledged delegates to win the Democratic nomination on the first ballot. That's ~47% of the remaining delegates still available, including the 123 pledged delegates from elections that have already happened but for which the votes are still being counted. Sanders would need to win 1,128 of the pledged delegates (~63%) still on the table.
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    The big question now is 'what will Bernie do?'

    According to CNN Sanders is going to "assess" his presidential campaign.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Crœsos wrote: »
    We have always been at war with Eastvirus.
    That's gone to my top ten favourite SoF quotes :mrgreen:

  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Crœsos wrote: »
    We have always been at war with Eastvirus.
    That's gone to my top ten favourite SoF quotes :mrgreen:

    You may think that's an exaggeration, but check this out. Pay particular attention to the dates in that video.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Isn't that an appalling video.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Crœsos wrote: »
    We have always been at war with Eastvirus.
    That's gone to my top ten favourite SoF quotes :mrgreen:

    You may think that's an exaggeration, but check this out. Pay particular attention to the dates in that video.

    Nothing on Fox News ever surprises me.

    I thought your Eastvirus comment was both appropriate (1984 reference) and funny. At least it tickled my sense of humour. But Fox News is beyond a joke. No doubt, like Trump, they will now claim that they thought all along it would be a pandemic.

    I don't know how they keep a straight face. I suppose Botox and heavy TV makeup help?
  • Well as our President seems to make his choices by what Fox News suggests it is good that they are now taking things seriously.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Tulsi Gabbard has suspended her presidential campaign and endorsed Joe Biden.
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Tulsi Gabbard has suspended her presidential campaign and endorsed Joe Biden.

    I was so shocked when I heard that earthshaking news yesterday! :dizzy: (Shocked that she thought she was still in the race, perhaps. Has she been self-isolating on a desert island somewhere with no access to the internet or television?)
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate


    Well, she is from Hawaii
  • Tulsi who?
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Gattard I think.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Hey, remember when Michael Bloomberg promised to keep his campaign apparatus running through November to help the eventual Democratic nominee even if it wasn't him? Apparently he got tired of that idea.
    Mike Bloomberg’s defunct presidential campaign laid off hundreds more staffers Friday as he announced that that he’s folding his massive battleground operation into the Democratic National Committee.

    Many of the Bloomberg aides — including those purged in an initial round of dismissals—were holding out hope he would deliver on a promise to keep them on his payroll through November, particularly with the coronavirus baring down. But those hopes were also dashed Friday when the staffers were told in frank conference calls that Bloomberg would not move ahead with his planned super PAC, and instead would cede his state operation to the DNC, including an $18 million infusion to help presumptive nominee Joe Biden.

    The staffers, who said they were lured to the late-starting campaign with yearlong guarantees of competitive pay and health benefit packages, were invited to apply for jobs with the DNC as part of a “competitive process.”

    Given that in the U.S. health insurance is most often gained through your employer, laying people off during a pandemic is just an extra twist of the knife. His disgruntled former staff are considering filing a class action suit.
    Donna Wood worked for the Bloomberg campaign in Florida and was let go on Friday. On Monday, she filed a proposed class-action lawsuit against the campaign in New York federal court, arguing that she and others were hired under the false promise that they would have a job through November, and that they were deprived of overtime pay.

    Thin-skinned billionaire who stiffs the people who work for him? Maybe Bloomberg really was "the Democrat's Trump". Just kidding, he was never really a Democrat.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Bastard. I remember, and I won't forget.

    Michael Rubens Bloomberg is going on my list of enemies.

    I just liked him for his money anyway.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    It's Tuesday again, but all the primaries originally scheduled for today have been postponed. There is one result to report, though. The Democrats Abroad primary, which collected votes from March 3 to March 10, has finally reported its results. Bernie Sanders won, netting 9 pledged delegates to Joe Biden's 4. With the other results trickling in here's how the delegate count currently stands:

    1. Joe Biden - 1,215
    2. Bernie Sanders - 909
    X. Dropout Candidates - 176
    ?. ??? - 11

    To win the Democratic Presidential nomination Joe Biden needs to win 46% of the remaining pledged delegates. Bernie Sanders would have to win 64% of the remaining pledged delegates to get the nomination on the first ballot.

    The next primaries are scheduled for April 4, a Saturday, when Alaska, Hawaii, and Wyoming will theoretically cast their ballots to collectively assign 53 pledged delegates. Hawaii casts their vote entirely by mail so there likely won't be any delay or disruption there. Alaska and Wyoming allow no excuse absentee voting, so hopefully they'll be heavily promoting that option.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    They have now moved the Democratic National Convention to August.

    There seems to be a draft (Andrew) Cuomo movement developing. Reactions?
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    There seems to be a draft (Andrew) Cuomo movement developing. Reactions?
    That would be a disastrous mistake, IMHO.

  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    There seems to be a draft (Andrew) Cuomo movement developing. Reactions?

    Somebody that nobody voted for and who already has a more-than-full-time job so he can't devote any time to campaigning. Brilliant!

    Where's the eyeroll emoji when you need it?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Also awkward considering that Governor Cuomo has endorsed Joe Biden, the likely nominee.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Also awkward considering that Governor Cuomo has endorsed Joe Biden, the likely nominee.

    Endorsements can be withdrawn.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Also awkward considering that Governor Cuomo has endorsed Joe Biden, the likely nominee.

    Endorsements can be withdrawn.

    Yeah, maybe if Biden screws up somehow. But in the absence of that, Cuomo withdrawing his endorsement to run himself is gonna seem like "I know I said Joe was the best choice, but now I wanna be president so to hell with him."
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Cuomo is just panicked kneejerking. I reckon some people Stateside have just bruised their chins.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Well, I don't know much about Cuomo, other than what I've picked up in the last few weeks. But, based on that, I've been thinking that he and Gavin Newsom (governor of California, where I live) could both make good runs for the presidency. I wasn't thinking about *this* year, but...

    I really don't think Biden is fit for the job. I'll vote for him, if he's the nominee. (IF we have a general election this year...) But he's not fit for the job. The incumbent is unfit x 10^infinity. Which makes functioning-well-at-work grownups like Cuomo and Gavin stand out.


  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    I have a notion that Biden is an empty vessel with no particular beliefs. Such people can be useful if they can be convinced that it is in their interests to adopt policy positions that are beneficial to the country. Trump is similar, and the radical racist religious right are filling him to the brim. But we all know the danger of Trump - he accumulates power for the sole purpose of aggrandizing himself and his wallet. It is such a pity that he is able to blur the lines between his blatant corruption and the accepted behavior of wealthy people like Biden in America (and to a lesser extent here - although we do not adore our wealthy, but seek to denigrate them and their achievements).

    I reckon that Biden is now the presumptive nominee, and suggestions about other, better candidates are at best a minor distraction and might well be damaging to the goal of defeating Trump. That is, if anybody remembers what happened in these dark days after the development of a vaccine. My feeling is this will be a very dark period that people won't want to think about when we are through it. I can only hope it provokes a change of heart among the GOP concerning social safety nets, but I very much doubt it will.

    I think it is time for every figure in the party to get behind Biden if they haven't already. The exception is Sanders. He should continue his strategy of pushing the Democratic Party to the left, with the aim of getting as many progressives up in Congress as he can. If that can happen, Biden will understand which side of his bread is buttered. So you go, Bernie. Do your thing.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    I have a notion that Biden is an empty vessel with no particular beliefs. Such people can be useful if they can be convinced that it is in their interests to adopt policy positions that are beneficial to the country.

    Biden does have some sincere beliefs but he is at heart a party animal. No, not that kind of party animal. He positions himself within the mainstream of wherever the Democratic Party happens to be at the moment. In the 1970s that meant cooperating with the Dixiecrat remnant that was soon to be absorbed by the Republicans. In the 1990s it meant Clintonian triangulation. In the Obama years it meant supporting a center-left (by American standards) technocratic approach. Today it means endorsing Elizabeth Warren's bankruptcy plan and Bernie Sanders' free college proposal.
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    I think it is time for every figure in the party to get behind Biden if they haven't already. The exception is Sanders.

    Technically speaking, Bernie Sanders isn't in the Democratic Party. I also think that work is done. It was more or less accomplished in 2016 when the Sanders campaign succeeded in moving the Democratic Party further left than it's been since at least the Great Society days. Possibly ever. I'm not sure losing a series of ever more lopsided primary defeats is a recipe for increasing the influence of progressives within the Democratic Party. If you want influence you have to show you can win. The only places Sanders has won since Super Tuesday (i.e. since he started running one-on-one against Joe Biden) are North Dakota and the Northern Marianas.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Tomorrow (April 4) was supposed to be primary election day in Alaska, Hawaii, and Wyoming. Given the current COVID-19 crisis and associated restrictions against large gatherings only Hawaii (which votes entirely by mail) is moving forward. Alaska has cancelled in-person voting and extended the deadline for mailing in absentee ballots until April 10. Wyoming, which was scheduled to hold a caucus, has done more or less the same thing as Alaska, except they've extended their mail-in deadline to April 17.

    Fourteen states and one territory have taken measures to delay their primaries. The most popular date seems to be June 2, which is shaping up to be the second biggest allocation of pledged delegates in the Democratic race, second only to Super Tuesday. My hope is that the late date is to give time to states to convert over to some kind of absentee or mail-in ballot system and not some optimism that everything will be fine by early June.
  • Soror MagnaSoror Magna Shipmate
    Perhaps the primaries will limp along, but the primaries don't directly elect anyone to government positions. My biggest worry is Trump trying to delay the real election. No public gatherings means no elections and no protests.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    edited April 4
    Hmmm. {Imagines a protest where everyone is punctiliously spaced 6' from each other. Row after row...}

    Might not be feasible, though.
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    My biggest worry is Trump trying to delay the real election.

    It's not in his power to do so. Congress can delay the election, but not for very long - Trump's term expires after four years, so they'd have to get the election done by January 20, 2021, and that includes the whole Electoral College procedure, not just the popular vote. Congress would have to amend the Constitution to extend the president's term, and I don't see the Democratically-controlled House agreeing to that.

    I think Republicans will stick to voter suppression in the general election, a tried and true strategy of theirs.
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    I am getting seriously worried that people won't vote for Biden if he, and I assume he will, becomes the nominee. I know someone who won't, and someone else who may not. They are both die hard Bernie supporters and they hate Biden. I get where they are coming from, I don't like him either, and when the New York primary finally comes around, I will vote for Bernie, though to be honest he wasn't my first choice either. But come the election we all have to get behind the nominee, and that's gonna' be hard to convince people of if it's Biden.
  • Graven ImageGraven Image Shipmate
    edited April 4
    @NicoleMR I think it evens out. I know some Republicans who do not like Trump. They are willing to vote for Biden but in no way would they vote for Bernie. They would just stay home.
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    @Graven Image ,yeah, I know that too. Maybe there's something to this "draft Cuomo" idea I've heard.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    If there is no election and the electoral college cannot vote, that would mean Pelosi would become the interim president by default.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited April 5
    NicoleMR wrote: »
    I am getting seriously worried that people won't vote for Biden if he, and I assume he will, becomes the nominee. I know someone who won't, and someone else who may not. They are both die hard Bernie supporters and they hate Biden. I get where they are coming from, I don't like him either, and when the New York primary finally comes around, I will vote for Bernie, though to be honest he wasn't my first choice either. But come the election we all have to get behind the nominee, and that's gonna' be hard to convince people of if it's Biden.

    The line I am running with Bernie supporters is as follows:

    1. Biden is the presumptive nominee. It's a huge problem, but barring a miracle we are stuck with the bastard. Biden is an empty vessel who has followed the majority Democratic view for his whole career.
    2. So progressives need to convince Biden that progressive views are the majority view IN THE PARTY.
    3. Bernie is in this race not only to win it, but to change the very nature of the Democratic Party. The second goal is more important. The second goal is the real aim of Bernie and his brains trust.
    4. Bernie should therefore stay in the race and progressives should continue to vote for him, and follow his directions going forward. He is the guy with the big picture in view.

    Its no use telling them to vote for Biden. Let Bernie tell them that.

    Another message is about down ticket candidates. They may not be able to choke down their bile and vote for Biden, but their vote is needed for Congress and all the way down the ticket. So turn up, and vote for Bernie as a write-in candidate if they must.

    I respect @Crœsos view that Bernie did the job in 2016, but there must be more to be done! I would need to know much more about the internal workings of the Democratic party to take it further, but I reckon the next step might be to change the people who are in charge of its administration and the candidates it selects.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Gramps--
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    If there is no election and the electoral college cannot vote, that would mean Pelosi would become the interim president by default.

    Hmmm. To me, that doesn't seem correct. If T were at the end of his second term, then yes, that would make sense. But if there's no election this year, I would think that T could stay in office--because he's the already-elected president.

    I would be thrilled if Nancy became president, even interim-ly, and we'd FINALLY have a woman president. Dancing in the streets! (6' feet apart. Maybe country line dancing?) And I want the T-monster out of office (legally & non-violently). But I don't think what you mentioned is feasible.

  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    Golden Key wrote: »
    But if there's no election this year, I would think that T could stay in office--because he's the already-elected president.

    Not according to the Constitution. His term expires at noon on January 20, 2021.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Ok, thx.
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    If there’s no election, wouldn’t Pelosi be out of office too? Along with the rest of the House and about a third of the Senate.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Well, Nancy is up for re-election this year. Not sure about the rest of the House. Are they synced to all be up for re-election at the same time?
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    Yes. They all serve two year terms.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    If there is no election and the electoral college cannot vote, that would mean Pelosi would become the interim president by default.

    Technically it would be whoever the 117th House of Representatives chooses as the Speaker of the House. Even if the Democrats retain control the Speaker is re-chosen every time a new Congress is seated.

    Fun Constitutional fact: It's not Constitutionally required that the Speaker of the House be a member of the House. If the House of Representatives knows it's electing a new President in January 2021 that particular election would be very interesting.
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Well, Nancy is up for re-election this year. Not sure about the rest of the House. Are they synced to all be up for re-election at the same time?

    Every member of the House of Representatives is up for election every two years. It's technically possible to replace the entire House of Representatives in a single election, though I don't think that it's ever been done since the First Congress.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Gramps--
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    If there is no election and the electoral college cannot vote, that would mean Pelosi would become the interim president by default.

    Hmmm. To me, that doesn't seem correct. If T were at the end of his second term, then yes, that would make sense. But if there's no election this year, I would think that T could stay in office--because he's the already-elected president.

    I would be thrilled if Nancy became president, even interim-ly, and we'd FINALLY have a woman president. Dancing in the streets! (6' feet apart. Maybe country line dancing?) And I want the T-monster out of office (legally & non-violently). But I don't think what you mentioned is feasible.

    Constitutionally, Trump's term in office ends at 12:00 Eastern Standard Time on January 20, 2021, unless he is reelected by a duly appointed electoral college. Same with the vice president's office--there are no ifs ands or buts to this point. If no one is available to take their place because the electoral college was not able to meet by then, the Presidential Succession Act of 1947 comes into play which specifically says if a president and vice president are unavailable to take the offices, the Speaker of the House will then become the interim. or acting, president.

    This, then, does raise several constitutional challenges. Do we redo a national vote and then have a reformed electoral college meet, or do we allow the acting president to hold the office into the next electoral vote in 2024

    The only way this can be circumvented would be if he declares martial law and hopes the military backs him up which would be very unlikely considering the military is sworn to uphold the constitution
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Yes, I do know House members serve for two years. I just hadn't thought of them all being in synch.

    Thx.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    I doubt that T is above declaring martial law. As to the military, T is their Commander in Chief. Caught between that and the Constitution...
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    This, then, does raise several constitutional challenges. Do we redo a national vote and then have a reformed electoral college meet, or do we allow the acting president to hold the office into the next electoral vote in 2024

    The Constitution specifies the latter. Anyone who comes to the presidency by filling a vacancy serves the remainder of the presidential term being filled. There have been nine instances where an American president has assumed office without being elected to the presidency (eight because of the death of their predecessor and one because of the resignation of their predecessor). In no such instance was a new presidential election scheduled. This is true even for the case of Gerald Ford, who was elected neither president nor vice president.

    On a related topic I'm not sure how election by the electoral college counts as "a national vote" but election by the House of Representatives does not.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    The new Congress takes its oath on 3 January 2021, seventeen days before the new administration is to take its oath, therefore there is a continuity of government.

    Regards T not being above declaring martian law, true; but the military should not recognize him as a legitimate commander in chief once his term of office terminates on the 20th of January. When I was in Officer Squadron School we gamed this out and the conclusion was we follow the constitution, not someone claiming to be the commander in chief.

    I can also tell you that there are many senior officers who do not like the current c-in-c and would gladly move on without him.

    To the point of the nine instances where a non elected person assumed the office of the president--in eight of those cases, the vice president was elected through the electoral college to take over the office if the president was unable to continue through death or resignation. When they did assume the office, it was midterm and there was an orderly change of the government. In the case of Gerald Ford, he was nominated by Richard Nixon to replace Spiro Agnew after Agnew resigned. Ford's nomination was approved by 97-3 in the Senate. So, while technically he was not elected through the normal process, he still had the overwhelming approval of the United States' elected Senators.

    Remember, our national election does not directly elect the president or vice president. Each individual state elects its electors for the electoral college. It is the electoral college that selects the president and vice president for the next four years.

    A big issue now is whether we as a nation should go to a mail-in voting system. The Democrats are strongly in favor of it, but the Republicans are not because they know they would be soundly defeated.
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Regards T not being above declaring martian law...

    One of the best typos ever! :lol:
    (But I always thought that Martians were green, not orange.)
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