Break Glass - 2020 USA Elections

13435363739

Comments

  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited April 13
    Obama strikes me as the sort of bloke who could get on with anyone, and very consultative. Biden is in the same mold/mould.

    Mostly for strategy with the Bernie folks I have been calling Biden an empty vessel waiting to be filled, and have sort of come to believe it myself. But consensus politicians are easily misunderstood in that direction, and of course Croesos' comment on Biden gives me pause for thought. So what are his core values? Is he a Union guy? Is he an all-for-the-Party guy? Is he pro-business like Clinton is painted?

    On race and gender, he seems to be out of step with the modern Party, yet black folks seem to be the core of his support. I think that says something about the difference between the chardonnay socialists and working people of all hues. But I am horribly confused.

    There are some great terms of art for the literati - the chattering classes, the latte sipping left, chardonnay socialists. My mate ran a ticket in University elections called the International Socialites. His emblem was a hand holding a wine-glass and slogan, "chin-chin". He was a public schoolboy, and was aware that the leading figures in the far-left International Socialists on campus were from the same class...
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    Mostly for strategy with the Bernie folks I have been calling Biden an empty vessel waiting to be filled, and have sort of come to believe it myself. But consensus politicians are easily misunderstood in that direction, and of course Croesos' comment on Biden gives me pause for thought. So what are his core values? Is he a Union guy? Is he an all-for-the-Party guy? Is he pro-business like Clinton is painted?

    Yes, yes, and kind of.

    Yes, he's pro-union. He likes to tout his working class background from Scranton, PA. He's notorious for his support of Amtrak (the U.S. passenger rail service) and the unionized employees thereof.

    Yes, as I commented earlier he's very much a party guy, navigating more or less by instinct to the center of wherever the Democratic Party happens to be at the time.

    And he's kind of pro-business, particularly the financial services business. During his time in the Senate he was often derided as "the Senator from MBNA". This was always going to be the case for anyone representing Delaware in the U.S. Senate. (For those who don't know, Delaware's loose incorporation laws has made the state the on-paper headquarters of a lot of credit card companies and other financial service providers.) Now that he's no longer beholden to the special interests of Delaware he's willing to endorse Elizabeth Warren's bankruptcy plan, which is pretty big since clashing with Joe Biden during Senate hearings over the 2005 Bankruptcy bill was what made not-yet-Senator Warren a public figure for the first time. So apparently point #2 (Biden will navigate to wherever the center of the Democratic Party is) outweighs point #3 (Biden is friendly towards business interests, particularly those of Delaware), hence the "kind of".
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    I think Blacks tend to support Biden because they think since Obama trusted Biden as VP, they can trust him as President.
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    I think Blacks tend to support Biden because they think since Obama trusted Biden as VP, they can trust him as President.
    According to Politico, it is pragmatism and an actual track record greater than his time as VP.
    Time and again, African American voters said it isn’t that they don’t like Sanders or Warren. But they know what they’re getting with Biden, who has a relationship and familiarity with black voters, especially older black voters, that extend beyond his time as Barack Obama’s No. 2. And they’re wary that the two progressives can deliver the sweeping remake of the government they’re selling.

  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Bernie Sanders has endorsed Joe Biden.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Cheers for that snapshot of Biden Croesos. The stuff about Delaware is particularly interesting. Right now, I couldn't point to Delaware on a map of the USA even if Pompeo asked me to. I shall remedy that very shortly, somewhere north east I guess.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    One key state in the national election will be Wisconsin. As you know, it has become a major battleground between Democrats and Republicans, so much so that the legislature and their Supreme Court wanted to go ahead with the in-person election last Tuesday as a way of discouraging a Democratic turnout in the primary. A key position the Republicans wanted to protect was a seat on the Wisconsin Supreme Court. Well the Democrat won. She had been endorsed by Biden and Sanders. The Republican incumbent was endorsed by (T)rump.

    I think this says something about which way the state may go in the national election.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    That's a bloody good sign, that Wisconsin result.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    On the Supreme Court election in Wisconsin, the candidate challenging the incumbent, Jill Karofsky, is reported as winning. Yet the Wisconsin Election Commission page has her and Daniel Kelly as the declared winners. What gives? Am I crazy? Have my mathematical and statistical skills finally descended into a state of utter uselessness? Please click through to the Statewide Canvass Results available from this page and explain to me what I have got wrong.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    And yet the Journal Sentinel has different results. Aargh!
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    Cheers for that snapshot of Biden Croesos. The stuff about Delaware is particularly interesting. Right now, I couldn't point to Delaware on a map of the USA even if Pompeo asked me to. I shall remedy that very shortly, somewhere north east I guess.
    Mid-Atlantic, next to Maryland.

  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    Cheers for that snapshot of Biden Croesos. The stuff about Delaware is particularly interesting. Right now, I couldn't point to Delaware on a map of the USA even if Pompeo asked me to. I shall remedy that very shortly, somewhere north east I guess.
    Mid-Atlantic, next to Maryland.

    "A slave state", in the words of Biden, who meant it as a compliment.

    (He was trying to explain why he could appeal to conservatives, and apparently meant to say something like "Delaware is a southern state".)



  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Barack Obama has endorsed Joe Biden.

    Not exactly a shocker, but click through if you want to see a twelve minute video of what it looks like when a President of the United States can deliver a speech competently.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Thanks Croesos. That was worth listening to. A poignant reminder.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Biden is not that eloquent a speaker, though.
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Biden is not that eloquent a speaker, though.

    Well, the bar has been lowered significantly.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Banished Republican Justin Amash has said he's interested in a presidential run on the Libertarian Party ticket. (In a very libertarian move, they Libertarian Party is still planning on having its convention in person at the end of May.)

    Amash has already gotten one surprising endorsement for his run.
    Donald J. Trump
    No, I think Amash would make a wonderful candidate, especially since he is way behind in his district and has no chance of maintaining his Congressional seat. He almost always votes for the Do Nothing Dems anyway. I like him even more than Jill Stein!

    29 April 2020
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    will he drag votes from anybody?
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited May 1
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    will he drag votes from anybody?

    Despite a bit of overlap with liberals on social issues(*), I think libertarians these days are almost universally regarded as extremely right-wing on economics(well to the right of the protectionist Trump), and are unlikely to pull much support from Democrats. Whatever vote-splitting they engender this time around will likely come almost entirely at the expense of the GOP.

    (*) And even that overlap only extends as far as negative rights. Libertarians will fight to the death for your freedom to have unprotected sex with multiple partners at meth-fueled orgies, with the caveat that should this hobby make you sick, you can expect no help from the government in paying your medical bills. And insurance companies will have even more freedom than they do now to refuse to sell you a policy.




  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren have had a a joint editorial published in today's Kansas City Star. This may kick some running mate speculations into high gear. The theme is that a hypothetical Biden administration won't be taking the "look forward, not backwards" approach towards the graft and looting of the current administration* that the Obama administration took towards the Bush torture regime. Since this is straight out of Warren's playbook (and recycles some of her campaign proposals) I suspect she's actually the principle author.

    The closing paragraphs:
    If Congress and the Trump administration are unwilling to act now, then we will ensure that these changes are made in January 2021, both through new legislation and immediate executive commitments made by the Biden administration.

    The Biden administration will appoint an inspector general to review every coronavirus relief transaction currently evading serious scrutiny. Wasteful, corrupt deals and giveaways will be rooted out and undone. Suspicious transactions will be referred to the Justice Department for investigation and prosecution. Every Trump administration official and business executive contemplating such deals should hear us loud and clear. Trump may wink and nod at this corruption. We will not.

    Real unemployment in America is soaring. But for many Americans, our economy wasn’t working even before the devastation of the COVID-19 crisis. As we recover, we have the opportunity to create an economy that truly works for everyone. That begins with a government that is accountable to the people — and that is what we will deliver.

    Former Vice President Joe Biden is a candidate for president. Elizabeth Warren represents Massachusetts in the U.S. Senate.

    What's more interesting to me than any running mate speculation is the choice of venue. Why the Kansas City Star?
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited May 3
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren have had a a joint editorial published in today's Kansas City Star. This may kick some running mate speculations into high gear. The theme is that a hypothetical Biden administration won't be taking the "look forward, not backwards" approach towards the graft and looting of the current administration* that the Obama administration took towards the Bush torture regime. Since this is straight out of Warren's playbook (and recycles some of her campaign proposals) I suspect she's actually the principle author.

    The closing paragraphs:
    If Congress and the Trump administration are unwilling to act now, then we will ensure that these changes are made in January 2021, both through new legislation and immediate executive commitments made by the Biden administration.

    The Biden administration will appoint an inspector general to review every coronavirus relief transaction currently evading serious scrutiny. Wasteful, corrupt deals and giveaways will be rooted out and undone. Suspicious transactions will be referred to the Justice Department for investigation and prosecution. Every Trump administration official and business executive contemplating such deals should hear us loud and clear. Trump may wink and nod at this corruption. We will not.

    Real unemployment in America is soaring. But for many Americans, our economy wasn’t working even before the devastation of the COVID-19 crisis. As we recover, we have the opportunity to create an economy that truly works for everyone. That begins with a government that is accountable to the people — and that is what we will deliver.

    Former Vice President Joe Biden is a candidate for president. Elizabeth Warren represents Massachusetts in the U.S. Senate.

    What's more interesting to me than any running mate speculation is the choice of venue. Why the Kansas City Star?

    My bet is Biden and Warren issued a joint opinion piece that was distributed to various news outlets, and the Kansas City Star ran with it. It also looks like the Miami Herald picked it up.
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    What's more interesting to me than any running mate speculation is the choice of venue. Why the Kansas City Star?
    Maybe they just like the
    Great State of Kansas
    .
    :wink:



  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    There's also the fact that it would be smart to show some favor to the so-called fly-over states, and not repeat the mistakes of the last election by creating an appearance of coastal preference. Let somebody in the Midwest break the story first--it costs you nothing, and it may be remembered.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited May 3
    Its a McClatchy newspaper I think, as is the Miami Herald. They have a huge network of newspapers, many in the less sexy places of the country. I subscribe to the Sacramento Bee and then choose one other paper to follow. I was on the Wichita Eagle for a while, mainly for the Glenn Campbell reference. McClatchy are in financial strife, so it could be a way to support the network too.

    Its a brilliant piece, short and to the point. And its a motherhood piece. Its incredible to me that a motherhood piece is actually on the ballot in a mature democracy...
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »

    Every four years various pundits roll out their "What if there's a brokered convention? Or something happens to the nominee? Or . . . ?" columns. It's the political journalism equivalent of public masturbation and should be treated accordingly. That extra dollop of bad faith is delivered at the end of the original piece in The Hill:
    Douglas MacKinnon, a political and communications consultant, was a writer in the White House for Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, and former special assistant for policy and communications at the Pentagon during the last three years of the Bush administration.

    I'm not sure there's any reason to believe Mr. Republican PR Guy is arguing in Democrat's best interests.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    stetson wrote: »
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    will he drag votes from anybody?

    Despite a bit of overlap with liberals on social issues(*), I think libertarians these days are almost universally regarded as extremely right-wing on economics(well to the right of the protectionist Trump), and are unlikely to pull much support from Democrats. Whatever vote-splitting they engender this time around will likely come almost entirely at the expense of the GOP.

    (*) And even that overlap only extends as far as negative rights. Libertarians will fight to the death for your freedom to have unprotected sex with multiple partners at meth-fueled orgies, with the caveat that should this hobby make you sick, you can expect no help from the government in paying your medical bills. And insurance companies will have even more freedom than they do now to refuse to sell you a policy.




    Contra to what I wrote above, I just read an analysis that seemed to suggest that Amash could take votes from Democrats, specifically the Never Trump Republicans.

    IOW, Republicans who hate Trump so much that they are planning to hold their nose and vote Democrat, but could be convinced to vote for a credible right-winger who isn't Trump. So Amash would take those votes away from the Dems and put them in the Libertarian column, without taking any votes away from the GOP.

  • Since when is any US Libertarian candidate "reasonable"?
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    stetson wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    will he drag votes from anybody?

    Despite a bit of overlap with liberals on social issues(*), I think libertarians these days are almost universally regarded as extremely right-wing on economics(well to the right of the protectionist Trump), and are unlikely to pull much support from Democrats. Whatever vote-splitting they engender this time around will likely come almost entirely at the expense of the GOP.

    (*) And even that overlap only extends as far as negative rights. Libertarians will fight to the death for your freedom to have unprotected sex with multiple partners at meth-fueled orgies, with the caveat that should this hobby make you sick, you can expect no help from the government in paying your medical bills. And insurance companies will have even more freedom than they do now to refuse to sell you a policy.




    Contra to what I wrote above, I just read an analysis that seemed to suggest that Amash could take votes from Democrats, specifically the Never Trump Republicans.

    IOW, Republicans who hate Trump so much that they are planning to hold their nose and vote Democrat, but could be convinced to vote for a credible right-winger who isn't Trump. So Amash would take those votes away from the Dems and put them in the Libertarian column, without taking any votes away from the GOP.

    I think that's probably right, although never-Trumpers are (I hope) conservative people who know how the system works and just how wrong Trump is for America and the world. They are (I hope) more likely than other people to know that voting for a third party is a wasted vote, and won't help get rid of Trump. If I was a Republican, that's how I'd be thinking. I'd want Trump to be smashed, I'd want his crazed supporters gone from active political involvement, and I'd be looking to convince someone like Condi Rice, Marco Rubio, Lindsay Graham or Paul Ryan to run against Biden's VP in 2024.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Since when is any US Libertarian candidate "reasonable"?

    Well, I didn't use that specific word, I said "credible". And I meant in comparison to Trump, and from the p.o.v of a habitual Republican voter.
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    If someone is truly Never Trump, they would vote for the Democratic candidate. Every vote for anyone else is a vote for Trump. Every non-vote is a vote for Trump.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Hey, remember Justin Amash? The former Republican Congressman who left the party over Trump's abuses and later hinted that he might run for president on the Libertarian ticket? Apparently he decided that last one was a bad idea:
    Michigan Rep. Justin Amash has announced that he will not run for president as a third party candidate.

    "After much reflection, I've concluded that circumstances don't lend themselves to my success as a candidate for president this year, and therefore I will not be a candidate," he tweeted Saturday.

    Basic political science says that a third party run in a winner-take-all electoral system is a sucker's bet, but apparently Amash needed "much reflection" to reach this conclusion.

    Original Twitter announcement here.
  • smithnsmithn Shipmate Posts: 4
    edited May 20
    [deleted spam]
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    The Trump campaign has announced a new initiative that they've dubbed "Truth Over Facts".
    President Donald Trump’s re-election campaign announced Monday a new “investigative” website that prioritizes “truth over facts.” The site, in fact, is called TheTruthOverFacts.com.

    The goal of the site, according to a release, is to uncover “the truth behind Joe Biden’s never-ending, seemingly incomprehensible statements during his third, plodding campaign for president.” The release says the site will utilize “experts,” but puts the word in quotation marks.

    I guess the War on Facts just became official.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited May 21
    Who was it that said T uses alternative facts?

    As I recall facts are just facts. How we interpret them may give us different truths.

    Maybe Biden can come back with a website that says TruthfromFacts or something like that.
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Who was it that said T uses alternative facts?
    It was Kellyanne Conway. I believe she was trying to justify the lies (I mean 'alternative facts') about the size of the crowd at Trump's Inauguration.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Who was it that said T uses alternative facts?
    It was Kellyanne Conway. I believe she was trying to justify the lies (I mean 'alternative facts') about the size of the crowd at Trump's Inauguration.

    Yes, I remember now.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Dear God in heaven!
    :confounded:

    Well, this is kind of Birther Movement 7.0, forking over to a "Biden's a Chinese Commie!!!" module.

    Donald, please, please, take your toys and go home. You'll be happier, and you just might avoid being locked up in psych care or prison.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Today, I got a Facebook ad from Mike Pence promoting a Trump "survey." I asked Facebook why I am seeing this ad. Facebook replied Pence sent the ad to anyone Facebook thinks likes Universal pictures or American Airlines.

    Why American Airlines?

    Anyway, I blocked the ad.
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Donald, please, please, take your toys and go home. You'll be happier, and you just might avoid being locked up in psych care or prison.
    His concern might be that once he goes home and loses immunity his chances of going to prison greatly increase.

  • Leorning CnihtLeorning Cniht Shipmate
    edited May 26
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Why American Airlines?

    People who like American Airlines are American, and have enough money to travel regularly?

    Corrected quote link (unusual error). BroJames Purgatory Host
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    Regarding the Trump War on Facts. The fear that the sliding economy will affect his re-election campaign is behind the newest wave.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    And now there is a "war" raging between the (Democratic) governor of North Carolina and the Republican National Committee about having their convention in North Carolina. The governor's people are asking the RNC to provide a safety plan on how they will take care of 50,000 people in the midst of the pandemic. 45 is threatening to move the convention to a more favorable state. That is really easier said than done.

    How do you eat popcorn with a mask on?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    And now there is a "war" raging between the (Democratic) governor of North Carolina and the Republican National Committee about having their convention in North Carolina. The governor's people are asking the RNC to provide a safety plan on how they will take care of 50,000 people in the midst of the pandemic. 45 is threatening to move the convention to a more favorable state. That is really easier said than done.

    There's a reason the planning for these big four-day spectacles starts two years in advance. Of course, trying to pass some kind of cheapjack amateur hour off as top flight entertainment is exactly on-brand for Trump, so maybe he'll do it anyway.
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    In 1991 the Episcopal Church held its General Convention in Phoenix. The idiot Governor of Arizona (who was later impeached and removed from office, for unrelated reasons) had cancelled the Martin Luther King holiday as his first act as Governor, in 1987. This caused an outcry, and many conventions and events were moved from Arizona elsewhere. The holiday was on the ballot in 1990. There were actually two conflicting propositions, which caused much confusion, and the measure failed. Still no MLK holiday.*

    Many Episcopalians insisted that the General Convention be moved elsewhere, but the powers that be said it was impossible with such short notice. If the Episcopal Convention, which is huge, but not as huge as the Democrat and Republican Conventions, couldn't be moved with eight months' notice, how can they possibly move the Republican Convention with much less notice?

    (*It was finally approved in 1992.)
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    I would think lodging might be the largest obstacle. (Venue possibly being a lesser obstacle, given that there are very large buildings in many places, the managers of which might be strong-armed into participating.)

    Huge numbers of attendees and their staff; media reporters; Secret Service and other security persons would all need places to stay. Even if they could find a city where that was even a possibility on short notice, each entire building would need to be thoroughly sanitized now. (Though, given the attitude of some Republicans, the Rep. party might not see it as important.)

    Imagine the security nightmare if a lot of them stayed with Airbnb!
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    How do you eat popcorn with a mask on?

    Is there a difference between a mask and a nosebag?
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    I worry that either or both of the Democrat and Republican Conventions might face what the Chicago Democratic Convention faced in 1968. With all the Trump inciting of trouble, the racial tensions over African Americans being killed by police, the stress and anger over COVID19 -- we're facing a long, hot summer.
    :votive:
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Yesterday was primary day in seven states (IN, MD, MT, NM, PA, RI, and SD) plus the District of Columbia. Despite the fact that Joe Biden is the only remaining Democratic contender for the presidential nomination he still has not clinched the nomination yet, accumulating 1,917 out of the required 1,991 delegates. (There are still 56 delegates yet to be assigned from yesterday's contest, not quite enough to put Biden over the top.) What did happen yesterday is that every other Democratic presidential candidate has now been mathematically eliminated from winning the nomination on the first ballot. There are no longer enough unassigned delegates in the remaining states (and three territories) yet to have primaries to put any other candidate over the top, even if they managed to win all of them.

    In other news, out-and-proud white supremacist Steve King lost the Republican primary to be his party's candidate for his current seat representing Iowa's 4th Congressional District. It would be nice if Republicans rejected him for his racism, but his victorious opponent was more vocal about King being ineffective in Washington. (King was stripped of his committee assignments after he publicly endorsed white supremacy, so it's kind of because of his racism, but mostly about power.) This may not seem like a big thing, but on Monday Steve King was considered acceptable to the Republican Party, today he's outside the line.
Sign In or Register to comment.