Morning & Evening Prayer

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  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate
    PDR wrote: »
    my usual times (11am and 9pm.) This quirk is well-enough known that if I am being particularly obnoxious or cranky, Mrs. PDR, and also her best friend will ask 'have you read Matins/Evensong?' quote]
  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate
    edited June 17
    11 am!!! That is really late in the day for MP!
    (I cannot pray after I have eaten breakfast, but I guess that is a thing divides the world into those who can and those who can't pray on a full stomach)

    I have had that very question ("Did you pray this morning?") put to me on several occasions but to me it is like the old "Are you getting your period?" response - makes me even more furious
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    My body clock is off by about 2 hours, which is a nuisance, but I have not being able to reset myself to a more normal schedule.

    I know what you mean about the 'Did you pray this morning?' line. It can result in the person who says it getting the death ray stare.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Shipmate
    I find that if I don't do MP first thing, other issues intervene, and it just doesn't get done, for the most part.
  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate
    You and 99.5% of (lay) Christendom!
  • I've started doing morning and evening prayer according to the Irish BCP... I notice there is a lot of flipping around of pages, which I can get used to, though I wonder if other BCP's have a more streamlined format.
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    I am usually on US 1928, and use a combined BCP and Bible. I have to flip four times - for the psalms, the OT lesson, the NT lesson and the collect. I think that is pretty standard.
  • angloidangloid Shipmate
    CW:DP can be a flipping nuisance too.
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    The worst was the Anglican Breviary....
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I've said this before when threads have come up on this subject. I think there's a great value in accepting the discipline of using the form of prayer that is provided by the ecclesiastical household to which you belong. If you're CofE, that means Morning or Evening Prayer from either the 1662 BCP or Common Worship.

    As an introduction to that discipline, Common Worship also suggests using its Prayer during the Day as a a framework to wrap around a daily Quiet Time and Bible study.
  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate
    And what if you're a Presbyterian/ Church of Scotland?
    Says she who is using Taize now - brain fried by chemo so slipped down the candle
    I do say a decade of the Rosary and an Our Lady Untier of Knots prayer ( writ by Pope Francis in May 2013) at the end though
  • Galilit wrote: »
    And what if you're a Presbyterian/ Church of Scotland?
    Says she who is using Taize now - brain fried by chemo so slipped down the candle
    I do say a decade of the Rosary and an Our Lady Untier of Knots prayer ( writ by Pope Francis in May 2013) at the end though

    I believe the Book of Common Order includes an order for daily prayer, though I don't think it has a lectionary for it.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited June 19
    Galilit wrote: »
    And what if you're a Presbyterian/ Church of Scotland?
    If you're willing to go outside the Church of Scotland but still stay Presbyterian, the PC(USA)'s Book of Common Worship has full orders for Daily Prayer (Morning, Midday, Evening, Night), complete with seasonal variations, psalms and lectionary. (Two lectionaries, in fact. There is a two-year lectionary, and there is the three-year Revised Common Lectionary, where the reading for Monday–Wednesday are linked to the RCL readings for the previous Sunday, while the readings for Thursday–Saturday are linked to the RCL readings for the following Sunday.)

    If you don't want the full 1216-page, 2.8-lb. book, there is a 672-page, 14 oz. Daily Prayer edition available here.

    Or, there is an app available. You can find info on that here. While I like holding a book, the app does make it easy as there is no juggling of books—everything, including the readings (from the two-year lectionary, I think), is in the app.
  • OblatusOblatus Shipmate
    What causes all the flipping in books like The Anglican Breviary is the space-saving practice of not repeating a text. So there's a series of layers one must navigate: the ordinary of the hour, ordinary of the season, common of saints, proper of saints, etc. The whole structure can be lovely and elegant and rational while hard as heck to figure out.

    My current office book (when not praying in person with my monastic community) is the new incarnation of A Monastic Breviary from the Order of the Holy Cross, in a small binder. The one thing you have to decide on is whether the basis of the current hour will be the regular office of the day or one of the commons. Once that's determined, you turn there and need to flip back only for the psalms (given in full and in order). The readings need to be looked up in a separate Bible in any case. But the invitatory psalm and antiphons, and the office hymn and Gospel canticle, as well as the standard opening and closing materials, are all given in that one place where you started the hour.
  • Jengie JonJengie Jon Shipmate
    Well for about a century within the Reformed traditions individuals have been publishing their own form of daily prayer; a classic would be A Diary of Prayer by John Baillie but there are others. Also there is the PCUSA Daily Prayer1, but the URC one1 is in my opinion unuseable.

    However, I would take the Reformed Freedom in Worship as a given and do what I liked. That over the years has included:
    My own versions are eclectic and combine stuff from a number of offices. This is almost essential as someone committed to using the Iona Office which needs supplementing for morning and evening prayer.

    So I would say you have a full license within the Reformed tradition to do whatever you want.

    1You will need to scroll down the pdf to find them
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Jengie Jon wrote: »
    Also there is the PCUSA Daily Prayer1….

    1You will need to scroll down the pdf to find them
    FWIW, the PDF at that link is the 1993 BCW. The version to which I linked above is the 2018 BCW. There is not significant difference between them in the orders for Daily Prayer, but there is some. (I think the app I mentioned uses the orders as they appear in the 1993 BCW.) Given that the PDF is the whole book, I suppose that if you have a program that can edit PDFs, you could cut everything except the Daily Prayer section, the psalms and the daily lectionary to make it a little more manageable.
    Jengie Jon wrote: »
    So I would say you have a full license within the Reformed tradition to do whatever you want.
    Totally agree.

    And @Galilit, I’ll add that I’ve used Praise God: Common Prayer at Taizé from time to time over the years.

  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    edited June 20
    Enoch wrote: »
    I've said this before when threads have come up on this subject. I think there's a great value in accepting the discipline of using the form of prayer that is provided by the ecclesiastical household to which you belong. If you're CofE, that means Morning or Evening Prayer from either the 1662 BCP or Common Worship.

    As an introduction to that discipline, Common Worship also suggests using its Prayer during the Day as a a framework to wrap around a daily Quiet Time and Bible study.

    House rules is pretty much what keeps me on the BCP. Left to my own devices I would probably use Matins and Vespers out of the 1941 Lutheran Hymnal which are (a) a lot simpler, and (b) have a decent lectionary.
  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate


    Jengie Jon wrote: »

    However, I would take the Reformed Freedom in Worship as a given and do what I liked. That over the years has included:


    Oh yes! Reformed Freedom is one of my Immovable Foundations of Faith!
    That is a wee cutie - till it got over-cute and I went back to BCP 1662. I have beeswax under my fingernails from going up and down the candle

    I chop and change a lot - every 6 months or so
  • I guess if you wanted to be super Presbyterian you could use only the psalter.
  • Jengie Jon wrote: »

    I gotta ask... what is "the Celtic Tradition"?
  • Jengie JonJengie Jon Shipmate
    edited June 20
    Now I am going to have to ask you what you are asking because there are a number of replies.

    First I take it that you have heard of "Celtic Christianity"?
    Do you want me to place Philip J Newell within that?
    Are you asking my actual opinion on what "Celtic Christianity is?

    I am quite well read in that area and as such have some idea of the definitions and the doubts when using that terminology. I would not say I am scholar in this aspect, just well read, but I am influenced by scholars.
  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate
    edited June 20
    Brilliant reply!
    Have you considered a career in the Foreign Office, Jengie Jon?
  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    Enoch wrote: »
    I've said this before when threads have come up on this subject. I think there's a great value in accepting the discipline of using the form of prayer that is provided by the ecclesiastical household to which you belong. If you're CofE, that means Morning or Evening Prayer from either the 1662 BCP or Common Worship.

    As an introduction to that discipline, Common Worship also suggests using its Prayer during the Day as a a framework to wrap around a daily Quiet Time and Bible study.

    I theoretically agree, but, while the NZ Prayer Book / He Karakia Mihinare O Aotearoa has its moments (many borrowed from Jim Cotter) the daily offices feel very much as if they were written by a committee. I tend, in private, to segue subtly to the Australian order (I do for funerals, too, though I don't see many of those these days).
  • Ethne AlbaEthne Alba Shipmate
    Church of Scotland could Seriously do with an online or app y thing.
    .
    I ve resorted to using The Scottish Episcopal Church's very helpful link
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    I guess if you wanted to be super Presbyterian you could use only the psalter.

    Yep, but you had better make sure it is metrical. ;)

    I go through periods when I find the MP/EP regime a bit minimalistic, and add the RC Office of Reading, and some form of Midday Prayer/Prayer during the day to the routine. This usually lasts until we get a week of reading from the documents of Vatican II, and then I get very 'proper' Anglican again. I guess it is a relic of my early flirtations with the modern Anglo-Catholic style coming to the fore.
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