you can check out anytime you like but...you can never leave

The idea of the United States of Europe is part of the idea of "One World and No borders between the countries"... and this is going to be a world where there is "One currency, one army, one government and one religion, probably islam"
The idea that the Brexit vote would mean that we could leave the United States of Europe, is an idea that assumes that we live in a democracy. We don't.
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Comments

  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Welcome to the ship, Peace. I hope you enjoy your stay and find yourself unable to leave because you are so engaged by our lively debates.

    I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I'm not familiar with the United States of Europe. Do you mean NATO? We come from all over the place, so not all of us will be familiar with the shorthand, if that's what it is.
  • RicardusRicardus Shipmate
    The idea of the United States of Europe is part of the idea of "One World and No borders between the countries"... and this is going to be a world where there is "One currency, one army, one government and one religion, probably islam"

    Whose idea would that be? LaHaye and Jenkins'?
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Ricardus wrote: »
    The idea of the United States of Europe is part of the idea of "One World and No borders between the countries"... and this is going to be a world where there is "One currency, one army, one government and one religion, probably islam"

    Whose idea would that be? LaHaye and Jenkins'?

    The "probably Islam" comment has got my antennae twitching. That smells like Far Right conspiracy theory - "the Liberal Elite are going to swamp us with Muslim Immigrants" is the pretty much the Islamic equivalent of "Jews are secretly controlling everything".
  • I don't think it is "Far Right" or "Far Left" is it? The EU used to be called The Common Market, and in the future it will be called "The United States of Europe"... and we won't be leaving.
    The plan for the "One World" government has been in place for a long time and the reason that Islam will be the main religion, is because it is the most popular religion in the world at the moment.
  • Most European states are either formally Christian like the UK, or formally secular like France. So that seems unlikely.

    If we stay in Europe we retain a veto on important matters - so I doubt we will become part of a United States of Europe. Of course we also elect European mps and so have a direct say in the future of the European project.
  • RicardusRicardus Shipmate
    I don't think it is "Far Right" or "Far Left" is it? The EU used to be called The Common Market, and in the future it will be called "The United States of Europe"... and we won't be leaving.
    The plan for the "One World" government has been in place for a long time

    Whose plan is this?
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I don't think it is "Far Right" or "Far Left" is it? The EU used to be called The Common Market, and in the future it will be called "The United States of Europe"... and we won't be leaving.

    Citation needed
    The plan for the "One World" government has been in place for a long time

    Citation needed
    and the reason that Islam will be the main religion, is because it is the most popular religion in the world at the moment.

    Citation needed


  • RicardusRicardus Shipmate
    Most European states are either formally Christian like the UK, or formally secular like France. So that seems unlikely.

    And if anything, the UK is one of the more progressive-minded states towards Islam - post-Brexit, I can see the EU becoming more anti-Islamic if anything, especially if the Central European Visegrád Group grow in influence.
  • Most European states are either formally Christian like the UK, or formally secular like France. So that seems unlikely.

    If we stay in Europe we retain a veto on important matters - so I doubt we will become part of a United States of Europe. Of course we also elect European mps and so have a direct say in the future of the European project.

    We are already in the "United States of Europe", but it is currently called the EU.... Christianity won't be the accepted "One World" religion, because it is on its way out. I wouldn't say that the UK is formally Christian, but I accept that it used to be. When I tell my muslim co-workers that we used have prayers at school and at home, they ask me "what happened?" I say "I think there was a seismic change in the culture in the seventies"
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    I'm not sure that's true about Islam, but I see what you mean about the United States of Europe. I'm all in favor of it myself, but don't have any skin in that game.

    There's a song on the Mermaid Avenue album, written by Woody Guthrie. He's talking about equality between the sexes, and then comes out with, "all creeds and kinds and colours of us are blending till I suppose 10,000 years from now, we'll all be just alike. Same colour, same size all working together. And maybe we'll have all the fascists out the way by then." I always found that to be a particularly bleak view of the future, worthy of H G Wells and his Morlachs. Indeed, that might be where Woody got it from.

    I also think it is utterly wrong, even though I bop along to the lyric. Coming together I hope will lead to a celebration of difference and more diversity, not a bland homogeneity. That's a hope I hold close to me when I think of my city and my country. My hope is for unity, with national pride and the competitive spirit directed towards sport. I don't believe the English have had any trouble with that at all :smiley:
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    I see I am completely in the wrong ball park on this thread! Talk about a rush of cross-posts!
  • Most European states are either formally Christian like the UK, or formally secular like France. So that seems unlikely.

    If we stay in Europe we retain a veto on important matters - so I doubt we will become part of a United States of Europe. Of course we also elect European mps and so have a direct say in the future of the European project.

    We are already in the "United States of Europe", but it is currently called the EU.... Christianity won't be the accepted "One World" religion, because it is on its way out. I wouldn't say that the UK is formally Christian, but I accept that it used to be. When I tell my muslim co-workers that we used have prayers at school and at home, they ask me "what happened?" I say "I think there was a seismic change in the culture in the seventies"

    We have prayers in government every morning and an established church. Not that I think that is necessarily a good thing.

    If you think the EU is a nation state, along the lines of the USA, you are mistaken.
  • Women are relatively safe in the UK. My problem with the "one world no borders" idea is that female safety will not be the same, because levels of safety are so very different in other parts of the world. I think that those who support "one world no borders" are assuming that people's attitudes are similar to European attitudes, but this isn't the case. Therefore I think that it will end up in a heavily policed society, so as not to fall into anarchy..
  • This does not make much sense. What is this future you are imagining ? All other cultures and societies will somehow remain unchanged, in a structural change as massive as you are suggesting ?

    On what evidence are you basing your assumptions ?

    In other threads, you seem to be nostalgic for the old days in Britiain - but of course women were a lot less safe then.
  • The "one world no borders" idea is going to be a reality and the United States of Europe will be a stepping stone towards that. This is why all the argy bargy about Brexit is a waste of energy, and why the vote was a waste of money.... We won't be leaving..
    As for the idea that I am "nostalgic for the old days of Britain" - well - I'm not too sure what you mean by that.
    I am a historian by trade, and am fully aware that the relative safety in British society, for women, has been hard won !!! But the majority of countries do not offer women the same level of safety, and certainly not the same level of justice.
    Therefore when "one world, no borders, international Marxism" becomes a reality, I think women's lives in the UK, will reflect the majority of the lives of women in the world... and it will not reflect the current hard won sense of safety.
  • This does not make much sense. What is this future you are imagining ? All other cultures and societies will somehow remain unchanged, in a structural change as massive as you are suggesting ?

    .

    As I am new to the Ship of Fools, I don't know if I can put in a link. I am also confused as to why you've not heard of the "One World No Borders" future? Surely you must be aware of this? Its a major political movement. It is especially popular in higher education.
  • RicardusRicardus Shipmate
    This does not make much sense. What is this future you are imagining ? All other cultures and societies will somehow remain unchanged, in a structural change as massive as you are suggesting ?

    .

    As I am new to the Ship of Fools, I don't know if I can put in a link. I am also confused as to why you've not heard of the "One World No Borders" future? Surely you must be aware of this? Its a major political movement. It is especially popular in higher education.

    Which political party advocated it in the last election and how many seats did they win?


  • .[/quote]


    [/quote]

    Which political party advocated it in the last election and how many seats did they win?[/quote]

    This future plan is not a "left wing/right wing" thing. It is just "what will happen in the future". As I am not sure about providing a link, (being new to the site) may I ask you to type in "One world no borders" into a search engine? If I put a link on here, I may be accused of promotion of this cause and that isn't the same as being resigned to inevitable

  • Found this, it looks more like unfettered capitalism than Marxism to me.

    Also, I doubt it will happen - if it did the problem would be corporate power more than religion I think.

    Why are you sure this might happen ?
  • Found this, it looks more like unfettered capitalism than Marxism to me.

    Also, I doubt it will happen - if it did the problem would be corporate power more than religion I think.

    Why are you sure this might happen ?

    I really don't know how to answer the question "Why are you sure that this might happen", as everyone I know, assumes that it is going to happen. And this assumption has been in place for well over ten years. So Doublethink, you have presented me with a cerebral challenge. I will consult my Great Dane, (Marmeduke) and drink coffee and I hope this will help me to form an acceptable reply
  • "International Marxism" sounds an awful lot like an anti-Semitic dog whistle to me, and that, along with Muslims taking over and the "United States of Europe" canard that's been doing the rounds as long as I've been alive (interesting that the emphasis has switched from domination by Catholics and/or Germans to domination by Muslims but I suppose that reflects evolving prejudices) all suggest that you've been dwelling in a very strange, far right bubble.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Peace--

    Welcome. :)

    FYI: Shipmates here include all sorts of folks, with all sorts of ideas and beliefs, and all sorts of differences. So it's best to never assume most people know what you're talking about on any topic, let alone agree with you.

    Question, if I may, re your screen name and posts: Are we talking "Late, Great Planet Earth"?
  • Someone needs to read the Lisbon treaty and how it put a formal stop to further political union.

    The journey from here to 'Islam is the great threat to Europe' to outright Islamophobia is very, very short. And based of misunderstanding and myth.

    The greatest threat to our freedom, democracy, safety and climate is unfettered capitalism: cooperations who play one government off against another. Since the removal of capital controls across most of the world, money has more freedom than people.

    The EU, for all its many faults and limitations is one of the biggest defences against this.

    AFZ
  • Muslims aren't "taking over" but they will be the main religion in the One World No Borders future. I don't think Christianity or Paganism will be chosen, do you?
    I am just on my first coffee of the day, so forgive me if I am not accurate, but I think that Corbyn is a big supporter of "one world no borders", and so is he an "international Marxist?" I don't know, but the Milliband's certainly supported it. The Fabians do and I think they do run the Labour party don't they?
    I am not Far Right at all - and I find it very strange to be called Far Right. I can't think what I have done to invite such an insult. Like I said, I am surprised that the "one world no borders" idea is news to people.
    Do you think you should apologise for calling me Far Right?
    As for the United States of Europe- well - that's just a matter of labels . Its the same thing, whether it is called the Common Market or the EU.
    Its just a stepping stone to "one world more borders" and I'm not sure why this is not obvious.
  • Also, as I am part Jewish, I find it odd to be called anti semitic. I have never felt that the Labour Party were against Jewish people - far from it actually.
  • Jengie JonJengie Jon Shipmate
    If you have ever had to deal with Marxist groups and all the contact I had was that they used to appear regularly on my ballot paper, you would know that they are probably the one group that is more divisive than Reformed Churches and do not seem to have the Reformed churches ability to merge together. Two-thirds of the ballot paper was taken up with groups that were various flavours of Marxism, Communism and Socialism and I am not including Labour, Liberals or Greens in that.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Peace--

    Welcome. :)

    FYI: Shipmates here include all sorts of folks, with all sorts of ideas and beliefs, and all sorts of differences. So it's best to never assume most people know what you're talking about on any topic, let alone agree with you.

    Question, if I may, re your screen name and posts: Are we talking "Late, Great Planet Earth"?

    I haven't heard of the Late Great Planet Earth, but it sounds like a climate change programme? Would that be the case?
  • Jengie Jon wrote: »
    If you have ever had to deal with Marxist groups and all the contact I had was that they used to appear regularly on my ballot paper, you would know that they are probably the one group that is more divisive than Reformed Churches and do not seem to have the Reformed churches ability to merge together. Two-thirds of the ballot paper was taken up with groups that were various flavours of Marxism, Communism and Socialism and I am not including Labour, Liberals or Greens in that.

    Oh I see.
    I am not a great fan of Marxism, having recently been moved to re-learn about the Soviet Gulags, (thanks to Peterson's talks on post modernism). and so I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject of Marxist groups. I take your point about the divisive aspect of the Left, but as far as I know, they do all want the "One World No Borders" future.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    It's a book about the end of the world, per some interpretations of Christian scripture. Lots about the Common Market, 666, etc. Popular in the 1970s.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    It's a book about the end of the world, per some interpretations of Christian scripture. Lots about the Common Market, 666, etc. Popular in the 1970s.

    Oh what fun!!! Weren't the seventies a hoot? All those chemicals in the food - were we ever the same after Vesta Curry?
    So my assumption that the book of Revelation is a big fraud, caused by hallucinations by John on a Greek Island, is challenged ! (To be fair, it never went down well at the HTB bible study group in the 80's)
    So, its not a fraud, its a warning about the One World No Borders future
    Fabulous.
  • RicardusRicardus Shipmate

    Which political party advocated it in the last election and how many seats did they win?

    This future plan is not a "left wing/right wing" thing.

    If the plan isn't going to be put into effect through political parties, how will it come to pass? Military expansionism? Corporate influence?

  • [/quote]

    If the plan isn't going to be put into effect through political parties, how will it come to pass? Military expansionism? Corporate influence?[/quote]



    I think it will be just like the rise of the internet. Something that we all just get used to …..just as we have got used to the United States of Europe... and the only threat to our daily lives will be the inevitable rise in crime, leading to the surveillance society to try to combat this

  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited April 14
    Sooo, the fabians don’t run the Labour Party - and as far as I know Corbyn has never made public comment on the theory of “one world, no border”. Nor has it appeared anywhere in the party manifesto. Which is derived by consultation with the labour party’s 500000 members (of which I happen to be one).

    Nor does the Labour Party policy platform promote international Marxism. It’s a democratic socialist party.

    For your reference, assuming you really are interested in this, here is the manifesto on which the Labour Party fought the last general election.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    I don't think it is "Far Right" or "Far Left" is it? The EU used to be called The Common Market, and in the future it will be called "The United States of Europe"... and we won't be leaving.
    The plan for the "One World" government has been in place for a long time and the reason that Islam will be the main religion, is because it is the most popular religion in the world at the moment.

    What future's that?
  • Sooo, the fabians don’t run the Labour Party - and as far as I know Corbyn has never made public comment on the theory of “one world, no border”. Nor has it appeared anywhere in the party manifesto. Which is derived by consultation with the labour party’s 500000 members (of which I happen to be one).

    Nor does the Labour Party policy platform promote international Marxism. It’s a democratic socialist party.

    For your reference, assuming you really are interested in this, here is the manifesto on which the Labour Party fought the last general election.


    As I said before it isn't really a left wing or right wing thing. Like the internet, it will just be something that we get used to. And I do think the Fabians run the Labour Party, simply because the top cheese Labour people are all Fabians. And to go back to the original point, the entire Brexit/Remain argument is just futile - we won't leave - because we are part of the "one world" vision.
    As for Corbyn - if you know him, then ask him if his enthusiasm for open borders is part of this "One World No borders" idea. I think you'll find that the answer is YES
  • Teresa May is equally enthusiastic for the "One World No Borders" future, which is why she is messing around on the Brexit thing. She knows it won't happen.
  • https://youtu.be/zv8bGoiRmGo

    Churchill in 1948, introducing the UNITED STATES OF EUROPE


  • Churchill made it clear that the united states of Europe wasn't an idea based on any political party
  • Teresa May is equally enthusiastic for the "One World No Borders" future, which is why she is messing around on the Brexit thing. She knows it won't happen.

    Eh? May is the most racist, anti-immigrant PM we've had in 50 years. Free movement is the reddest of her red lines and one of the reasons she's found it so hard to strike a minimally-damaging Brexit deal. Where do you get these ideas from?

    Also, you can't say something is Marxist then on the other hand claim it is neither left nor right. Nor do you get to associate Marxism with the gulag unless you also associate capitalism with Irish Potato Famine, the Ethiopian famine in the 1980s, all the atrocities committed by the East India Company, the Highland Clearances, etc. etc.
  • I really have no interest in engaging with the OP, which is just nonsense. However, the claim that Islam is the most popular religion at the moment is an error of fact. It is simply untrue, and this passthepeace character has made no attempt to substantiate it (even though Karl specifically asked for just that). Not that it can be substantiated, because it is simply false.
  • RicardusRicardus Shipmate

    If the plan isn't going to be put into effect through political parties, how will it come to pass? Military expansionism? Corporate influence?[/quote]



    I think it will be just like the rise of the internet. Something that we all just get used to ….
    [/quote]

    The Internet didn't just happen. It was designed by specific people working at specific institutions for a specific purpose, and the rest of the world adopted it because it was useful.

    Who are the designers of the one world government, what institution do they work for, what is the purpose of that institution, and why would the rest of the world adopt it as an idea?
  • Jengie JonJengie Jon Shipmate
    Jengie Jon wrote: »
    If you have ever had to deal with Marxist groups and all the contact I had was that they used to appear regularly on my ballot paper, you would know that they are probably the one group that is more divisive than Reformed Churches and do not seem to have the Reformed churches ability to merge together. Two-thirds of the ballot paper was taken up with groups that were various flavours of Marxism, Communism and Socialism and I am not including Labour, Liberals or Greens in that.

    Oh I see.
    I am not a great fan of Marxism, having recently been moved to re-learn about the Soviet Gulags, (thanks to Peterson's talks on post modernism). and so I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject of Marxist groups. I take your point about the divisive aspect of the Left, but as far as I know, they do all want the "One World No Borders" future.

    That may be the case but Marxist groups are not alone in that. The Church after all longs for the reign of Christ when all people will bow their knee to Christ as Lord.
  • The idea of the United States of Europe is part of the idea of "One World and No borders between the countries"... and this is going to be a world where there is "One currency, one army, one government and one religion, probably islam"
    The idea that the Brexit vote would mean that we could leave the United States of Europe, is an idea that assumes that we live in a democracy. We don't.
    .

    See, I have no idea how you get from ""One currency, one army, one government" to "one religion". You seem to be saying that any future "One World" must be a theocracy which only tolerates one religion.

    Oh, and Islam isn't the most popular religion: that is still Christianity.
  • Oh dear - everyone's getting very cross. Look, all I can do is say that we are on an inevitable path towards "One World" government and that the United States of Europe is an important part of that development. Therefore we can have as many referendums as we like, and vote whatever, but we won't be able to leave.
    Now if people want to be personal and insulting, then that's ok. Whatever lights your Vespa Curry.
    Wishing you all the best - and - should you time travel to the future and see that I'm correct, I will accept all the apologies that I know, deep down, you really want to give. End of discussion for me now. (I thought everyone already knew about One World No Borders)
  • EutychusEutychus Admin
    edited April 14
    Now if people want to be personal and insulting, then that's ok.

    It's not OK actually, at least not in Purgatory and not according to our Ten Commandments.

    But (speaking unofficially) I haven't noticed anybody being either here.

    In Purgatory it is expected that ideas should both be challenged and defended. You allege that "everybody" already knows about One World No Borders but have not sourced your allegations.

    And besides, Trump also seems to have failed to get the memo. Build that wall.

  • This does not make much sense. What is this future you are imagining ? All other cultures and societies will somehow remain unchanged, in a structural change as massive as you are suggesting ?

    .

    As I am new to the Ship of Fools, I don't know if I can put in a link. I am also confused as to why you've not heard of the "One World No Borders" future? Surely you must be aware of this? Its a major political movement. It is especially popular in higher education.

    I've had decades (literally!) of working alongside the higher education sector and am well-acquainted with political movements of all sizes and stages of disorganization and have never heard of this before. I can tell you about the Georgian monarchist movement, the divisions in the CPC-ML, who's active on Treaty 6, and what happened to the Rhinoceros Party, but I've never heard of One World No Borders. I see that there is a website but it doesn't provide any suggestion that it's a major political movement. Perhaps we use the word "major" differently.
  • The key players are Tony Blair, Angela Merkel and George Soros, so yes, I can see why you'd think it was a left wing thing. But the conservatives are also involved in its construction and I am genuinely surprised the your workplace has not got a "One World" presence. It was created (as an idea) as far back as 1922 and Prime Minister Heath was an enthusiast of the One World idea - obviously he was a Tory.
    If you ask a Primary School child to give you the lyrics to their morning assembly songs, then you will see the "One World" idea in them. Thank you to all for the discussion - and - with respect to all, I am going to leave it now. All the best.
  • You mean you are going to leave without substantiating a single one of your assertions, or acknowledging your errors of fact?

    What was the point of that, then?
  • I am going to leave it now.

    That's more than a little ironic in view of your chosen thread title.

    Starting a discussion here doesn't give the thread starter the power to stop it.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    I am going to leave it now.

    That's more than a little ironic in view of your chosen thread title.

    Starting a discussion here doesn't give the thread starter the power to stop it.



    Yes, but I didn't know that people would start getting all hysterical and start screeching "Far Right" at me.... So, rather than encourage that sort of carry on, its better to leave them to it don't you think?
    I honestly had no idea that the knowledge of the "One World, No Borders" movement was scare on board ship and feel a little sea sick at the thought that I have been seen to be promoting something, that I just feel is inevitable.
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