But it is just a song.

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Comments

  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    I think it should also be read into the record that the scene for which that song was origianlly written was actually pretty offensive, eg. the "Last Supper" desgined to convince the guy that he wasn't really gay: The script doesn't challenge the idea that being gay is a valid reason for being depressed.

    Furthermore, the woman recruited to seduce him originally seems to think she was degraded by the experience, but then gets a big grin on her face while flying away in the helicopter, apparently having had the epiphany that pity-f***ing a guy into heterosexuality is a real act of nobility.
  • Schroedingers CatSchroedingers Cat Shipmate, Waving not Drowning Host
    I would be incredibly surprised if some of the writers of MASH had not read the Catch-22 book. I hadn't realised the series and the film were so close - or rather never thought about it. They definately occupy the same comedic space, but in different ways.
  • bunnywithanaxebunnywithanaxe Admin Emeritus
    mousethief wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    I listen to a lot of extreme metal. Black, death, even a little grindcore (Bolt Thrower mainly). But the vast majority of grindcore and its various subgenres is irredeemable garbage, both because of being morally/ emotionally/ intellectually stunted and crushingly boring musically. Can it be blamed for this violence though? Can you blame the Beatles for the Manson murders? To do that we would have to do something probably impossible, which is prove that these people would not have committed the act without having heard this stuff.

    Apples and oranges, Sir P. The Beatles song that Manson blamed his killing on was about a playground slide as a metaphor for sex. It was not a whole genre about killing and maiming. Manson was reaaaaally reaching. Someone listening to a song glorifying violence then committing violence is in a quite different boat.

    Well, there was also Piggies, about how the titular mammals, generally regarded as a stand-in for rich assholes, needed a "damned good whacking".

    Though that's the only White Album song in Manson's canon that could remotely be viewed as advocating violence. The killers did write Death To Pigs at one of the murder sites, though "pigs" of course was also a common term of abuse in the counterculture.

    (Link is to a wikipedia analysis of Beatles songs that Manson claimed as inspiration.)

    "Pigs" means "police" in the US. Which I am sure that George Harrison did NOT have in mind when he wrote Piggies.

    I have read that George was inspired by the 1968 Democratic convention. Not sure how authoritative that is.

    I thought that George was using Animal Farm imagery.
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    I listen to a lot of extreme metal. Black, death, even a little grindcore (Bolt Thrower mainly). But the vast majority of grindcore and its various subgenres is irredeemable garbage, both because of being morally/ emotionally/ intellectually stunted and crushingly boring musically. Can it be blamed for this violence though? Can you blame the Beatles for the Manson murders? To do that we would have to do something probably impossible, which is prove that these people would not have committed the act without having heard this stuff.

    Apples and oranges, Sir P. The Beatles song that Manson blamed his killing on was about a playground slide as a metaphor for sex. It was not a whole genre about killing and maiming. Manson was reaaaaally reaching. Someone listening to a song glorifying violence then committing violence is in a quite different boat.

    Well, there was also Piggies, about how the titular mammals, generally regarded as a stand-in for rich assholes, needed a "damned good whacking".

    Though that's the only White Album song in Manson's canon that could remotely be viewed as advocating violence. The killers did write Death To Pigs at one of the murder sites, though "pigs" of course was also a common term of abuse in the counterculture.

    (Link is to a wikipedia analysis of Beatles songs that Manson claimed as inspiration.)

    "Pigs" means "police" in the US. Which I am sure that George Harrison did NOT have in mind when he wrote Piggies.

    I have read that George was inspired by the 1968 Democratic convention. Not sure how authoritative that is.

    I thought that George was using Animal Farm imagery.
    yup
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