Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

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  • Pangolin GuerrePangolin Guerre Shipmate
    edited July 7
    To add to today's daily waking nightmare, I offer this column from Max Boot in The Washington Post, in which he participated in "war games" scenarios premised on Biden winning narrowly in the Electoral College. The possibilities are more than alarming. The horror, the horror.
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    So how does he cope now, being far from universally liked and being a total loser?
    That's fake news and the Democrats. He knows everyone really loves him.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    edited July 7
    Croesos

    What strikes me is that the Taliban story flies in the face of his attempt to portray himself as the defender of patriotism against internal anarchy. Given that he is all about personal projection (regardless of truth) it is potentially damaging to his core support. (IF it is believed.)

    I should think it will cost him US military votes in any case.

    (Just checked. 2016 exit polls showed veterans voting 61% Trump 34% Clinton. Active military were different; 50% Clinton, 45% Trump.)
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    The Taliban story seems to have run its course. Now Trump is set on preserving Lee's Army Battle Flag and other confederate memorials. He thinks that is his winning strategy.

    And, today he is insisting all schools, colleges, and universities fully open up this next academic year, while the coronavirus is spiraling out of control. I had just sent an open letter to Washington State University suggesting the school stay closed for the next academic year. I hope most of the state governors will tell T where to go.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited July 7
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    The Taliban story seems to have run its course.

    Just as Trump Asking Xi To Help His Re-election Campaign ran its course before that. And does anybody remember the details of the outrage that gave this thread its title?

    You can almost set your watch by the life-cycle of a Trump scandal. One thing that's worrying me about November is that I think the Democrats might end up just running against some vague image of Trump as malicious or incompetent, expecting the public to fill in the blanks themselves. Whereas the Republicans will hammer away at one or two easily digested issues("Biden wants to defund the police!! While left-wing thugs are destroying our cities!!"), over and over again.

  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited July 8
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    So how does he cope now, being far from universally liked and being a total loser?
    That's fake news and the Democrats. He knows everyone really loves him.

    He copes using the positive thinking strategies he learned at church.

    In response to Stetson, I think people like Pelosi and the actual Biden campaign know how to win this thing. The question is whether other actors will give them enough clean air.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    So how does he cope now, being far from universally liked and being a total loser?
    That's fake news and the Democrats. He knows everyone really loves him.

    He copes using the positive thinking strategies he learned at church.

    In response to Stetson, I think people like Pelosi and the actual Biden campaign know how to win this thing. The question is whether other actors will give them enough clean air.

    But Pelosi and Biden need to have a strategy on the books to deal with the eventuality of those other actors deciding NOT to give them clean air. That is part of knowing how to win.

    Assuming that by "other actors" you mean the current crop of protestors, as much as I hate to say this, Biden might very well end up having to have a Sister Souljah Moment, or better yet, a Ricky Ray Rector Moment, with them.

    "Hey, man, I'm sorry that chick got her head smashed against the concrete by the cops, but you can't just go around spraypainting the Washington Monument. We have laws in this country."
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Biden might have to yeah. It would be easier if people focused, but that's not going to happen. I'm confident that the Dems know how to deal with the current environment.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    Bit of an overlap with the conspiracy theory thread, but I have been told that 98% of Democrats are communists. By someone who believes it of people who have been friends. If that gets traction, it would be a problem.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Penny--

    Actual, card-carrying party members? Sympathizers? People who wear Birkenstocks, tie-dyed clothes, and vacation in the "People's Republic Of Berkeley", California?
    ;)
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Boogie--

    That might be part of his response. But I was thinking more of starting a war; blowing something up; calling on his followers to start a civil war; or...kill himself. (I'm not in any way, shape, or form suggesting he do the latter. But there are reports that he thinks he won't win--and he's said that "Biden will be your president",)

    He truly can't cope with not having universal acclaim, and not being a winner. His dad taught the kids that only winners deserve to be loved. If he did exit that way, we well might have a civil war, courtesy of his angry, grieving followers. And the resulting conspiracy theories would make JFK's death seem like a minor curiosity.

    So how does he cope now, being far from universally liked and being a total loser?

    He's sufficiently narcissistic to simply not see that.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Yes. I doubt he consciously sees himself as a loser. But, reportedly, all his focus now is on getting re-elected--which shapes his remarks, policy decisions, stirring up at least the beginnings of a civil war.

    He reportedly didn't want to be president--just use the publicity to improve his situation with his "The Apprentice" show. IIRC, he had considered running a couple of times before. And, frankly, Pres. Obama helped spark T's 2016 run. They were at the annual dinner and comedy roast for the White House press corps. Lots of witty/caustic/apt humor. A couple of comedians performed. Then Obama took the stage for a few minutes, doing his own standup comedy. Aaaand he poked at T. (None too nicely, IIRC.) Possibly about ambitions to power, or some such. T was none too pleased, and the camera caught his face. And IMHO things were set into motion.

    T and his 2016 campaign manager both said that he didn't want to do the presidential work, and he would delegate. However, he "won", and was stuck with something he didn't want, didn't expect, didn't understand, and wasn't remotely fit to do.

    It would've been better for everyone (T included) if he didn't run this time, or quit, or stormed off. But he's doubling down on his bets, and putting everything into this election.

    As I said earlier: If he doesn't win, his reaction...
  • MaryLouiseMaryLouise Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    Talking of his narcissism, I'm fascinated by the account of Donald Trump's family as revealed in his niece's memoir, uncovering a truly monstrous, medacious and sadistic family. There's no doubt that with a father who was a 'high-functioning sociopath', an emotionally battered mother and despised alcoholic brother, Donald grew up competing for attention by any means possible, never checked or cared for, thriving on displays of cruelty, bullying and grandiose dishonesty. I'm often wary of family memoirs told by someone who has an axe to grind, but this all sounds not just plausible but convincing, just the kind of dynamics that would produce a power-mad ruthless egoist. I'm looking forward to the movie...
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Mary Trump is a clinical psychologist which adds a certain credibility to her account. I liked this quote from the link.
    Of the day after Trump’s victory, she writes, “I was wandering around my house, as traumatized as many other people but in a more personal way: it felt as though 62,979,636 voters had chosen to turn this country into a macro version of my malignantly dysfunctional family.”

    From this side of the pond it looks as though something along those lines has happened.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Yup.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate
    There are many things in life I cannot check up at all. Some I believe, some I don't, depending on how plausible they are. This book sounds plausible.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    And, frankly, Pres. Obama helped spark T's 2016 run. They were at the annual dinner and comedy roast for the White House press corps. Lots of witty/caustic/apt humor. A couple of comedians performed. Then Obama took the stage for a few minutes, doing his own standup comedy. Aaaand he poked at T. (None too nicely, IIRC.) Possibly about ambitions to power, or some such. T was none too pleased, and the camera caught his face. And IMHO things were set into motion.

    It was the 2011 White House Correspondents Dinner and most of the digs were about Trump's endorsement of the birther conspiracy theory, so on a certain level Trump asked for it. Here's the (edited) video for those who are interested. (The editing mostly consists of cutting out the non-Trump-related parts of Obama's speech. For those who want to see Obama's remarks in full, C-SPAN's got you covered. The intro is brutal, so of course I recommend it.)
    Golden Key wrote: »
    It would've been better for everyone (T included) if he didn't run this time, or quit, or stormed off. But he's doubling down on his bets, and putting everything into this election.

    I'm not so sure about that. At least part of Trump's desire for re-election is running out the five year statute of limitations on certain election-related laws. (i.e. the stuff Michael Cohen 86067-054 is currently serving time for at Otisville Federal Correctional Institution.)
    There are many things in life I cannot check up at all. Some I believe, some I don't, depending on how plausible they are. This book sounds plausible.

    As blogger Paul Campos put it:
    The most shocking aspect of these shocking revelations is that not a single one of then is even slightly shocking.

    At least not to anyone who's been paying any attention to Trump since he descended that golden escalator.
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    So why the heck was a guy from a "reality" television show even at the White House Correspondents Dinner?
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited July 8
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    So why the heck was a guy from a "reality" television show even at the White House Correspondents Dinner?

    Well, Trump was a bit more than just a reality-show host. He was also a fairly prominent figure in NYC business and social life, who knew and was on friendly terms with a lot of important people, including, it is reported, the Clintons.

    So this probably wasn't quite as ludicrous as, say, "Let's invite the winning couple from Who Wants To Date A Porn Star? to the Correspondents Dinner."

    (Granted, though, at the end of the day, Trump was probably more just "famous for being famous" than anything else.)
  • The White House Correspondents' Association plays host - you don't have to be a correspondent to be invited.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    The White House Correspondents dinner is open to invited guests. Not only correspondents but also politicians from both parties and their guests, notable stars and the like. I am thinking he was invited by someone, whom I do not know.

    I do note since taking office, he has refused to participate in the White House Correspondent's Dinner. They still have had it in spite of his absence,

    The dinners, by the way, started in 1921. Calvin Coolidge was the first president to attend. It was a men's only dinner until John F. Kennedy became president. He said he would not go if women were not also included. There have been a few dinners that did not happen due to extenuating circumstances.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Penny--

    Actual, card-carrying party members? Sympathizers? People who wear Birkenstocks, tie-dyed clothes, and vacation in the "People's Republic Of Berkeley", California?
    ;)

    Can't answer for that! Maybe next time we meet I'll wear sandals and Batik and see what the reaction is. I only know what I was told. (I believe the source was some New Zealander called Loudon.) I haven't owned up to being an anarcho-syndicalist yet. Not sure a card carrying Tory would know what to make of that.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Penny--

    Actual, card-carrying party members? Sympathizers? People who wear Birkenstocks, tie-dyed clothes, and vacation in the "People's Republic Of Berkeley", California?
    ;)

    I remember seeing a video clip of someone explaining that Richard Nixon (of all people) was a communist, but he wasn't a card carrying communist, because he was smart enough to know that someone might search him and find the card.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    ;) Well, Nixon appeared on "Laugh In" for a "Sock it to me!" segment, so he must've been a commie. ;)

    (Rather wild comedy/variety show from the '60s/'70s. He said the line awkwardly, but seemed to be having fun!)
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    ;) Well, Nixon appeared on "Laugh In" for a "Sock it to me!" segment, so he must've been a commie. ;)

    (Rather wild comedy/variety show from the '60s/'70s. He said the line awkwardly, but seemed to be having fun!)

    And for reference, it spawned the career of Goldie Hawn. (Also a few other semi-notables, such as Arte Johnson and Ruth Buzzi, whose later careers tended to remain mired in the 1970s bad-TV and slapstick comedy ghetto.)





  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    And there was Flip Wilson, too. His female character was Geraldine, right? "The Devil made me do it!"
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    As a teenager, the ONLY television I watched was "Laugh-In."
    :smile:
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited July 9
    Golden Key wrote: »
    And there was Flip Wilson, too. His female character was Geraldine, right? "The Devil made me do it!"

    I don't recall ever seeing him on Laugh-In(which I watched in 80s re-runs), and his wiki page doesn't have anything about his being on the show. They do mention Wilson collaborating on a musical later in the 70s, with a composer from show.

    Sammy Davis jr. WAS on the show a few times, and I believe that's where he popularized Here Come Da Judge.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    This just in: SCOTUS has ruled 7-2 that Trump must release his tax records to the Grand Jury of New York State. On the other hand, the same court 7-2 has said Congress has yet to show sufficient cause to subpoena Trump's financial records and has sent it back to the lower courts. Win some, lose some.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    This just in: SCOTUS has ruled 7-2 that Trump must release his tax records to the Grand Jury of New York State. On the other hand, the same court 7-2 has said Congress has yet to show sufficient cause to subpoena Trump's financial records and has sent it back to the lower courts. Win some, lose some.

    Both cases were sent back down to lower courts for further review, so John Roberts has apparently decided that running out the clock is the way to go on this.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    This just in: SCOTUS has ruled 7-2 that Trump must release his tax records to the Grand Jury of New York State. On the other hand, the same court 7-2 has said Congress has yet to show sufficient cause to subpoena Trump's financial records and has sent it back to the lower courts. Win some, lose some.

    Both cases were sent back down to lower courts for further review, so John Roberts has apparently decided that running out the clock is the way to go on this.

    CNBC is reporting that Trump does have to release his records to the Grand Jury. Now, Trump may want to try to fight it, but records will be going to the Grand Jury since the request was through third parties, bank records, accountant information and that.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    CNBC is reporting that Trump does have to release his records to the Grand Jury. Now, Trump may want to try to fight it, but records will be going to the Grand Jury since the request was through third parties, bank records, accountant information and that.

    From the opinion [PDF]:
    The arguments presented here and in the Court of Appeals were limited to absolute immunity and heightened need. The Court of Appeals, however, has directed that the case be returned to the District Court, where the President may raise further arguments as appropriate. 941 F. 3d, at 646, n. 19.*

    We affirm the judgment of the Court of Appeals and remand the case for further proceedings consistent with this opinion.

    * The daylight between our opinion and JUSTICE THOMAS’s “dissent” is not as great as that label might suggest. Post, at 12. We agree that Presidents are neither absolutely immune from state criminal subpoenas nor insulated by a heightened need standard. Post, at 6, 11, n. 3. We agree that Presidents may challenge specific subpoenas as impeding their Article II functions. Post, at 6–7. And, although we affirm while JUSTICE THOMAS would vacate, we agree that this case will be remanded to the District Court. Post, at 12.

    In other words this opinion dealt solely with the question of whether the president has absolute immunity from state judicial proceedings. Robert ruled that the president does not have such immunity, but that the case should be returned to the District Court where Trump may file any other objections to the subpœna he might have.

    Or as someone else put it, the Supreme Court ruled against the doctrine of presidential immunity, but post-dated the opinion to the Biden administration.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Well, at least SCOTUS has agreed the President does not have absolute immunity.
  • TukaiTukai Shipmate
    A report reached us on the other side of the Pacific that Trump and his press secretary have been claiming that America is a world leader on coronavirus.

    I think he actually claimed "world leader on management of coronavirus" but the statistics (on another thread in Purgatory) indicate that his leadership is on the indicators of most number of deaths and most number of cases, which indicates the opposite of what he said.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Easily explained, Tukai. He doesn't understand numbers.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    But seriously folks. It does add credibility to the assertion that he paid someone to take his SATS. You have to have a truly massive blind spot to think that "the 1/100th time" is the same as "the one hundredth time".

    Trump has blind spots about lots of things. But primarily his own ignorance.
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    But seriously folks. It does add credibility to the assertion that he paid someone to take his SATS. You have to have a truly massive blind spot to think that "the 1/100th time" is the same as "the one hundredth time".

    Trump has blind spots about lots of things. But primarily his own ignorance.

    Dunning-Krueger on steroids. Or rather, it is alleged, amphetamines.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    :mrgreen:

    (Worth a click)
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Tukai wrote: »
    A report reached us on the other side of the Pacific that Trump and his press secretary have been claiming that America is a world leader on coronavirus.

    Well, the U.S. does lead the world in number of SARS-CoV-2 infections and in total number of COVID-19 deaths, so that's leadership of a sort.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Easily explained, Tukai. He doesn't understand numbers.

    I think he doesn't understand most things.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Trump is getting more and more paranoid. Today he is upset that the wall that was built along the Rio Grande by a private group on his behalf was built to embarrass him. The wall had been built within 35 feet (10.6 meters) of the bank of the river is now causing erosion along the river. The deal of it is, the group that built that portion of the wall was actually lead by two of his closes allies.

    In other news, Trump is now attacking Fauci saying Fauci is often wrong. He even has other Coronavirus task force members attacking Fauci. Could it be that Fauci's approval ratings are double Trump's approval ratings?
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Following up on what Gramps just posted:

    "The President Is Trading Dr. Fauci for the Ex-Host of Love Connection

    As his staffers smear the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in the press, the president is sharing public-health expertise from a fellow game-show host." (Esquire)


    I gather this isn't (yet?) a matter of firing Fauci and putting former game show host Chuck Woolery in the job; but T is pretty much ignoring Fauci and listening to Woolery.

    IIRC, Woolery is the game show host who claimed to have done CIA work or some such.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Addendum: Turns out the claim about CIA work was about Chuck Barris.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Polling question asked to American Voters:

    In regards to the coronavirus who do you trust the most.

    Dr. Fauci: 67%
    Donald Trump: 26%

    Reported by CBS News this evening. May have been redacted from this New York Times article.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    stetson--
    stetson wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    And there was Flip Wilson, too. His female character was Geraldine, right? "The Devil made me do it!"

    I don't recall ever seeing him on Laugh-In(which I watched in 80s re-runs), and his wiki page doesn't have anything about his being on the show. They do mention Wilson collaborating on a musical later in the 70s, with a composer from show.

    Sammy Davis jr. WAS on the show a few times, and I believe that's where he popularized Here Come Da Judge.

    Hmmmm. I'll check that out. "Laugh-In" is the only show I can think of that seems like a match to me.

    I'm definitely not thinking of Sammy. And he was very good at "Here Come Da Judge".

    Thx. :)
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    stetson--
    stetson wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    And there was Flip Wilson, too. His female character was Geraldine, right? "The Devil made me do it!"

    I don't recall ever seeing him on Laugh-In(which I watched in 80s re-runs), and his wiki page doesn't have anything about his being on the show. They do mention Wilson collaborating on a musical later in the 70s, with a composer from show.

    Sammy Davis jr. WAS on the show a few times, and I believe that's where he popularized Here Come Da Judge.

    Hmmmm. I'll check that out. "Laugh-In" is the only show I can think of that seems like a match to me.
    Flip Wilson had his own show that ran from 1970–74: The Flip Wilson Show. Skits involving Geraldine Jones were a regular part of it, as were skits involving Reverend Leroy of the Church of What’s Happening Now.

  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    Flip Wilson's Wikipedia article does connect him with the show:
    He was also a regular cast member on Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Thanks, everybody. :)
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Did you hear about the one where Trump was going to force the reopening of Universities by requiring all international students to take in-person classes or face deportation? Then it got reduced to at least one in-person class.

    Well, it has been scrapped. With 17 state Attorney Generals and over 200 educational institutions coming together in a class-action suit, the administration backed down and returned to the old standard.

    Now, it is one thing to wonder why any international student would want to come into this political and pandemic cesspool at this time anyway, but every time the administration comes up with such a hair-brain idea without public comment and then is forced to back down, it makes them look, well, weak; and we know how Trump hates to appear week.

    It also appears Trump may be backing off from his dispute with Fauci.

    Meanwhile, the new NBC poll shows Biden leading Trump 51-40. The last time a sitting president was this low in the ratings was Bush Sr. v Clinton.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth 8th Day Host, Mystery Worship Editor
    Don't worry -- he's found a new pie to stick his fat little fingers into.
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