Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

1161162164166167169

Comments

  • I read that his request for organic food is being challenged. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I feel for the kitchen staff, who have to deal with kosher, vegetarian, diabetic, diets and such while also trying to feed a great many inmates and staff 3 times a day.
  • I saw that his mother said he gets sick without organic food. His public defender seemed not to understand what the rioter wanted/needed. So I don't know if the rioter himself asked for organic.

    I'm for organic food, BTW. I think that's what everyone should be eating. (I'm not saying no junk food, though there are some healthier versions that taste good.)

    There was also mention of Muslim prisoners in Florida, who were given the choice of pork, or damaged/out-of-date packaged Halal meals.
    :(

    Seems to me that if prisoners, detainees, etc. get decent food, they're more apt to behave decently, which would help keep the guards safe(r).
  • @Golden Key I get sick when I see fascists, but I've been fed a steady diet of that for a while. Q-Shaman can eat what is the special of the day until he supplies a doctor's note. Not from mummy, who also proclaims his rather suspect patriotism.

    @TurquoiseTastic I wouldn't claim any special insight into Belichick's soul, but he has nothing to gain or lose from Trump's rise or fall. He supported Trump in 2016, and after the events of last Wednesday, doesn't - or, at least, doesn't politically. Unlike the cabinet rats deserting the sinking ship, Belichik's fortune's have only the most tenuous connection to Trump. He has long had a reputation as someone who does not follow the crowd, and who takes his patriotism seriously and puts it into action. I'm not asking you to love him (I would have preferred that he said nothing in 2016), but I wonder why you're taking a shot at him.

  • PG--

    Understood. I think maybe I didn't express myself very well. I'll try again.

    --His insistance (if it was his) on organic food in jail is at least naive, and possibly precious. (Precious as in "Ooo, I can't possibly eat what everyone else is eating".)

    --Organic food is good, and everyone should be eating it. Even junk food can be healthier, and made from organic ingredients.

    --Many people find their health improves when they eat organic.

    --Prison food is notoriously awful.

    --The Muslim prisoners I mentioned were purposely treated badly through food.

    --General comment: Given all that, improving prison food might well help the prisoners be healthier, which might mean more well-behaved, which would be safer for everyone--including the guards. (Good food for the guards might help, too.)
  • Define organic food.
  • There are strict rules for farmers who want their produce to be labeled "organic". Basically, don't use products and techniques that can make people sick, give them cancer, etc. That's very much a postage-stamp, tl;dr answer. Lots of details and debate online, should you choose to follow up.

    What this man and/or his mother might specifically mean, I don't know. Sometimes, "organic" is used in a very casual, colloquial sense to mean eating food that's good for you, and not eating stuff that's bad for you.
  • Define organic food.

    Any food certified organic by Oregon Tilth.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    That one of the zip-tie guys was a retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel put me in mind of Brigadier General Jack D. Ripper from Dr Strangelove.
    Golden Key wrote: »
    There are strict rules for farmers who want their produce to be labeled "organic". Basically, don't use products and techniques that can make people sick, give them cancer, etc. That's very much a postage-stamp, tl;dr answer. Lots of details and debate online, should you choose to follow up.

    What this man and/or his mother might specifically mean, I don't know. Sometimes, "organic" is used in a very casual, colloquial sense to mean eating food that's good for you, and not eating stuff that's bad for you.

    The difficulty is that US organic regulations are extremely lax and wouldn't pass muster in Europe.
  • The difficulty is that US organic regulations are extremely lax and wouldn't pass muster in Europe.

    Not really a difficulty in that Mr. Hornhead is in jail in the US.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    PG--

    Understood. I think maybe I didn't express myself very well. I'll try again.

    --His insistance (if it was his) on organic food in jail is at least naive, and possibly precious. (Precious as in "Ooo, I can't possibly eat what everyone else is eating".)

    --Organic food is good, and everyone should be eating it. Even junk food can be healthier, and made from organic ingredients.

    --Many people find their health improves when they eat organic.

    --Prison food is notoriously awful.

    --The Muslim prisoners I mentioned were purposely treated badly through food.

    --General comment: Given all that, improving prison food might well help the prisoners be healthier, which might mean more well-behaved, which would be safer for everyone--including the guards. (Good food for the guards might help, too.)

    Total agreement here
  • I'm not a nothing-but-bread-and-water guy (quite the opposite, in fact) but I find it bitterly ironic that these people want to overthrow the properly constituted government and then expect that government to make special provisions for them. They're lucky they weren't black - and shot. Like the protestor who weeps about being maced, because all she wanted to do was participate in the revolution. There are a lot of Bolsheviks in the celestial Politburo having a good belly laugh at that. It's all very snowflakey, and I have no patience for it.
  • edited January 13
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Regards, the individual with the bison horns: He calls himself Qshammon. He is from Arizona. I do not think there is any Viking connections.

    One of the Phoenix TV stations interviewed his mother. "It takes courage to be a patriot," she said. Delusional.

    It takes stupidity to be a traitor.


    It takes considerable vanity to look this much of a prick.

    Vain prick on prison hunger strike - demands organic food.

    Not entirely in the tradition of Bobby Sands, whatever your politics.

    I have just looked at that picture again - I really like it, which is why I have just quoted myself (vain prick). I never noticed the guy behind him to our right, with an eagle rubber head on! How cool does that incognito freedom warrior feel now. How sad am I (muppets fan) that he forgot to paint the head blue.

    (Sorry, home school means I am on an old tablet. You will have to look up Sam the muppets eagle yourself).

  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    edited January 13
    Pendragon wrote: »
    Apparently the furry "shaman" has been refusing to eat the food in the jail where he is currently detained as it wasn't organic!

    Connie Marble's unforgettable line from the John Waters cult classic film "Pink Flamingos" springs to mind:
    You can eat shit for all I care, or eat anything you want, or do anything you want. Just don't assume that I want to know your troubles.

    And where's disgraced Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio with his famous green baloney sandwiches when we need him so badly?
  • @TurquoiseTastic I wouldn't claim any special insight into Belichick's soul, but he has nothing to gain or lose from Trump's rise or fall. He supported Trump in 2016, and after the events of last Wednesday, doesn't - or, at least, doesn't politically. Unlike the cabinet rats deserting the sinking ship, Belichik's fortune's have only the most tenuous connection to Trump. He has long had a reputation as someone who does not follow the crowd, and who takes his patriotism seriously and puts it into action. I'm not asking you to love him (I would have preferred that he said nothing in 2016), but I wonder why you're taking a shot at him.
    I didn't particularly mean to take a shot; I was just a bit wary of portraying his action as heroic as the article's headline seemed to do (the article itself was rather more nuanced).
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    The guy wearing the eagle mask at least had the good sense not to be obviously identifiable on photographic evidence of him committing a crime. The Guardian had an interview last week with Saul Loeb, one of the press pack who took many of the images that have been widely published since and notably the one of the guy with his feet up on Nancy Pelosi's desk, He was astonished by how easily many of the insurrectionists allowed themselves to be photographed.
  • The horned guy reportedly called the FBI and said yes, that's me in the pics.

    Some guest on a radio broadcast suggested it really would have been a good time to wear a mask--like, say, a covid mask. They hide faces pretty well.

    I'm a little...anxious (?)...about the folks on social media who are crowd-sourcing identification of rioters from videos and pics. They can be very, very wrong. After the Boston Marathon bombing, years back, social media-ites were sure they'd tracked down one of the bombers in New York City. I think it even went as far as his getting threats. But they had the wrong guy. He had nothing to do with it. They could've gotten him killed.
  • yep - vigilante justice is for the Trumpers.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    The horned guy reportedly called the FBI and said yes, that's me in the pics.

    Some guest on a radio broadcast suggested it really would have been a good time to wear a mask--like, say, a covid mask. They hide faces pretty well.

    I'm a little...anxious (?)...about the folks on social media who are crowd-sourcing identification of rioters from videos and pics. They can be very, very wrong. After the Boston Marathon bombing, years back, social media-ites were sure they'd tracked down one of the bombers in New York City. I think it even went as far as his getting threats. But they had the wrong guy. He had nothing to do with it. They could've gotten him killed.

    Generally white people are (a) more likely to be correctly identified by other white people than are people of colour and (b) less likely to be subject to people assuming their guilt.
  • I thought the bombers were Georgian or Azerbaijani. Are they PoC these days?
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    I thought the bombers were Georgian or Azerbaijani. Are they PoC these days?

    Wikipedia says Chechen-Kyrgyzstani. They don't read as "white" in photographs to me but it's not something I'm going to argue over.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    These people thought they were heroic patriots. Of course they wanted to be photographed.They didn't contemplate any possibility of a consequence.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    Golden Key wrote: »
    It really would have been a good time to wear a mask--like, say, a covid mask. They hide faces pretty well.

    So far no one I've encountered who knows me has failed to recognize me in a mask.
  • edited January 13
    If you're a white supremacist, it's mommy advocating for organic food for you.
    If your a brown person, it's separate you from your mommy and no soap or toothpaste for you.
    One of them actually committed a crime
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    It really would have been a good time to wear a mask--like, say, a covid mask. They hide faces pretty well.

    So far no one I've encountered who knows me has failed to recognize me in a mask.

    I have SO failed to recognise people who I have met a handful of times when they are masked up. It is very embarrassing. I think I might recognise people by focusing on their nose/mouth/chin region. Obligatory Monty Python reference.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    It really would have been a good time to wear a mask--like, say, a covid mask. They hide faces pretty well.

    So far no one I've encountered who knows me has failed to recognize me in a mask.

    I have SO failed to recognise people who I have met a handful of times when they are masked up. It is very embarrassing. I think I might recognise people by focusing on their nose/mouth/chin region. Obligatory Monty Python reference.

    Faceblind as I am, I take a sinful pleasure in watching other people struggle right now.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    A technical question please. The headlines here are that Trump has been impeached for the second time. Is that correct, or do we have to wait until he has been convicted by the Senate to say that he's impeached?
  • Yes. The Donald will indeed go down in history as the first (hopefully the only) president to be impeached twice. Not sure if there's a paywall here but certainly Kim Darroch must surely be experiencing a degree of schadenfreude.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    So it's the finding that he should be tried by the Senate that is the impeachment.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    It really would have been a good time to wear a mask--like, say, a covid mask. They hide faces pretty well.

    So far no one I've encountered who knows me has failed to recognize me in a mask.

    I have SO failed to recognise people who I have met a handful of times when they are masked up. It is very embarrassing. I think I might recognise people by focusing on their nose/mouth/chin region. Obligatory Monty Python reference.

    Faceblind as I am, I take a sinful pleasure in watching other people struggle right now.

    Say three Hail Marys and call me in the morning.
  • Heh.

    "Impeached" means "formally accused by the House of a crime which, if he is found guilty, will get him removed."

    He has been so accused.

    And regardless of whether he is ever convicted, that impeachment will be a blot on his name. It's not something that is ever done lightly.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Thanks for that detail LC.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    I am wondering if this will prevent him from giving him a self pardon for what happened.
  • I gather there are lawyers looking at the problem of a president giving himself a blanket pardon, also whether or not they can issue a blanket pardon to all family members.
  • Trump has just released a video urging restraint and claiming he has always supported the rule of law 🤣

    No mention of his impeachment.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    The problem with pardoning, though, is that it necessarily involves an implied admission of guilt. You can't be "pardoned" for a crime you claim never to have committed.
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    Sure you can. Michael Flynn and Roger Stone claim to be innocent, and they’re both happy with their pardons.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    I am wondering if this will prevent him from giving him a self pardon for what happened.

    This is a good point because if I remember the right to pardon excludes matters of impeachment.
  • It doesn’t get you out of the impeachment, or prevent a conviction in the Senate. That’s specifically ruled out. But Trump can and probably will attempt a self pardon because it just might help him in the federal court cases that are doubtless being readied as we speak.
    Impeachment is primarily a political remedy for being a bad office holder—it is a chance to fire your ass. Any federal crimes you may have committed along the way are still tryable in the federal courts and are thus susceptible to a pardon—if you can come by one legitimately. Which a self pardon arguably is not. And neither is a pre-pardon, which I expect will trip up some of these creatures when they get back to their criming ways, forgetting (as they will) that pardons affect only the past.
  • Kind of like some people used to wait to be baptized until late in life, so all their sins would get a blanket pardon/forgiveness.

    Of course, if they happened to live much longer...
  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    I wonder if the furry shaman's outfit was influenced by Maurice Sendak's Wild Things? After all he was part of a wild rumpus.

    I do hope not because I love that story.
  • I gather from Twitter that the bison headdress is appropriated from Native American culture, whilst the tattoos are Viking influenced.

    He was thrown out of the navy in 2007 because he refused to have an anthrax vaccine.

    “A public defender who was representing Chansley said that his client was on an extremely restrictive diet, possibly for religious reasons.

    He explained that he had not had anything to eat since he was taken into custody.

    Upon hearing the news, the judge said that it was 'deeply concerning' and ordered Chansley's public defender to work with U.S. Marshals on his dietary concerns”

    (From the Daily Mail)

    Whilst I am able to believe there are a lot of perfectly compos mentis domestic extremists willing to storm the US Capitol - I do wonder if this particular individual is mentally unwell.

    Going on hunger strike due to a lack of organic food is hardly characteristic of far right thought.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Going on hunger strike due to a lack of organic food is hardly characteristic of far right thought.

    People don't always live up to the "characteristic" view of their ideological grouping.

    I know a guy in Canada who has what could be called near-far-right political views, and believes that any true Christian(like himself) has to accept only the most literal reading of Genesis.

    He is also a pretty militant vegetarian, who can parse the nutritional difference between various items at the local organic health-food grocery, and used to lecture me incessantly on my unhealthy diet, more vehemently than any Gaia-worshipping eco-hipster of my acquaintance.

  • LC--

    Faceblind as I am, I take a sinful pleasure in watching other people struggle right now.

    You wicked thing, you!
    ;)
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Does he believe what comes out of his mouth? Psychologically I suppose so. Say it enough and it's true. He was pro-abortion and now he's not because he's talked himself in to it? But he must have been talked in to it too, and presumably not just out of cynical politics? Although initially I imagine it was, 'Don, you gotta be pro-life for the Evo support', 'Sure.' He's talked up normal, trivial election fraud leveraged by his fear of postal voting catalysed by Covid, which he knew favours Democrats. So, what doesn't he believe that comes out of his mouth? Has he ever lied? He incited insurrection witlessly I conclude. Which is no excuse. And in the vein of say it and it's true, all representatives must take an oath accepting the judicially free and fair election results or be deselected.
  • orfeoorfeo Suspended
    I think the only thing he really believes in is himself.

    Trump is essentially a man who hates governance but loves power. He's got no idea what he's going to use that power for other than self-glorification, but stand in the way of that and he'll unleash upon you.
  • I’m (aha, found the apostrophe on this tablet thing!) not sure that the ego leaves room for ideas like ‘believe’, or even ‘truth’, in the minds of people like Trump. To be able to reflect on whether you believe what you say conjures the possibility that it matters because of Truth, and that if the answer were ‘no’ then some other corrective action might be necessary. The people I know well who are like this know how to look a bit human - ‘hmmm, well, yes, I see where you might be coming from’ (kind of high pitched speculative tone) - but one always knows the tone is about to descend dramatically to a didactic ‘ BUT I have to say I’m right all along and up really is down, when you really think about it’. I reckon their inner conversation, such as it exists, is much the same.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Thanks guys. I've said your opening line @orfeo. We intuit the same thing I believe. Evolution eh!
  • Huia wrote: »
    I wonder if the furry shaman's outfit was influenced by Maurice Sendak's Wild Things? After all he was part of a wild rumpus.

    I do hope not because I love that story.

    At least two political cartoonists have used the theme - one pre-riot and one post. Sendak would, as a gay Jewish man, be rotating in his grave at recent events.
  • orfeo wrote: »
    I think the only thing he really believes in is himself.

    Trump is essentially a man who hates governance but loves power. He's got no idea what he's going to use that power for other than self-glorification, but stand in the way of that and he'll unleash upon you.

    Or as Anthony Trollope put it in 'The Way We Live'


    "There was one man who thoroughly believed that the thing at the present moment most essentially necessary to England’s glory was the return of Mr. Melmotte for Westminster. This man was undoubtedly a very ignorant man. He knew nothing of any one political question which had vexed England for the last half century,—nothing whatever of the political history which had made England what it was at the beginning of that half century … He had probably never read a book in his life. He knew nothing of the working of parliament, nothing of nationality,—had no preference whatever for one form of government over another, never having given his mind a moment’s trouble on the subject. He had not even reflected how a despotic monarch or a federal republic might affect himself, and possibly did not comprehend the meaning of those terms. But yet he was fully confident that England did demand and ought to demand that Mr. Melmotte should be returned for Westminster. This man was Mr. Melmotte himself."

    If Trollope had had Donald Trump before his eyes as he wrote this book he couldn't have painted a more accurate picture of the rise and fall of a self-aggrandising swindler who is raised to untenable heights by a foolish support base.
  • AnteaterAnteater Shipmate
    Can anyone explain what impeachment can achieve? I'm not against it and certainly not defending Trump. I'm just unclear. My assumptions are:

    1. He will not be convicted. I believe fewer Republicans than expected supported impeachment. So the likelihood of a 2/3 majority is zilch.
    2. Therefore he will not be excluded from a run in 2024. However, that seemed unlikely anyhow.

    Will it allow more examination of his finances? Since no form of fraud or tax evasion forms part of the charge, I'm not clear this can be leveraged to get at his tax details.

    I think the only people who will be influenced by impeachment, given what we already know, are Trump waverers who could be forced back to him out of resentment for what may seem a vindictive waste of time.

    I hope I am right in believing that acting as a deterrent to future Presidents is not required.
This discussion has been closed.