Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

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  • Re divisions in American society:

    PBS is currently running an episode of its investigative series, "Frontline", called "Divided States Of America". The description in the TV listings is "Racial tensions in America; the fight to control the Republican Party; dysfunction in Washington, D.C.". It's around two hours long.

    I've seen some of it. I really wasn't in the mood for it. But "Frontline" always does good work. Might be of interest to some posters.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, Epiphanies Host
    A follow up to GK with an eye-catching quote from a recent Financial Times article
    “The US is effectively in a state of anarchy,” says Lu Xiang at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. “We always say Trump is a businessman, but even small shopkeepers know their most important asset is their reputation. Trump is harming his own reputation and that of the US.”

    The polarisation has been around for some years but the chaos in the White House certainly leaves an anarchic impression.
  • sionisaissionisais Shipmate
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    A follow up to GK with an eye-catching quote from a recent Financial Times article
    “The US is effectively in a state of anarchy,” says Lu Xiang at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. “We always say Trump is a businessman, but even small shopkeepers know their most important asset is their reputation. Trump is harming his own reputation and that of the US.”

    The polarisation has been around for some years but the chaos in the White House certainly leaves an anarchic impression.

    Has it ever been suggested that Trump is a good businessman?
  • sionisais wrote: »
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Has it ever been suggested that Trump is a good businessman?

    Repeatedly. Althought to be fair, mostly by Trump himself.

    AFZ
  • The Commander of Cheese finally came up with a statement with which I totally agree!
    We’re the laughingstock of the world.

    Because we haven't built the wall on the Mexican border. (This was in the NY Times, but I didn't link to it since there's a pay wall.)

  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Re divisions in American society:

    PBS is currently running an episode of its investigative series, "Frontline", called "Divided States Of America". The description in the TV listings is "Racial tensions in America; the fight to control the Republican Party; dysfunction in Washington, D.C.". It's around two hours long.

    I've seen some of it. I really wasn't in the mood for it. But "Frontline" always does good work. Might be of interest to some posters.

    Cheers for that GK. I'm sure its no surprise to you to know that this stuff is right up my alley.

    @Barnabas62 Your quote from China raised my prejudice and fear, my usual reaction when anybody mentions China. At the moment, I can't get past that reaction and so I am probably exceedingly biased.

    I do think the quote is very wide of the mark. My impression from reading The Sacramento Bee and The Wichita Eagle is that things are very much business as usual unless you happen to care about politics. In the case of the Wichita Eagle, I saw precisely no reporting of a recent Democratic campaign event in Kansas involving Sanders and the Latino woman from New York whose name escapes me, and almost nothing about Trump's rallys there too. I am however aware that Gordon Ramsay has filmed an episode of his TV show at a Wichita eatery. I believe the episode aired recently.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    And, now tRump is tRump is threatening a government shutdown about a month before the mid-term elections if his beloved WALL does not get fully funded. If he follows through with it, who do you think will win that fight?
  • Wasn't Mexico supposed to be paying?
  • Spinning off of Pigwidgeon's most recent post:

    Maybe T should just build a pay wall? ;)
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, Epiphanies Host
    edited July 2018
    Wasn't Mexico supposed to be paying?

    Trump changed that and also denied that anything had changed. From this article.
    “We’re going to get reimbursed,” Mr. Trump said during a brief telephone interview. “But I don’t want to wait that long. But you start, and then you get reimbursed.”

    Unfortunately, since we are living in "The Death of Truth" era, it doesn't seem to matter that Trump both shifts ground and denies that he does so.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    Actually, Mexico told him what Congress doesn't have the guts to: "Dream on, you insufferable twit."
  • The (previous?) president of Mexico said there's no way they'll pay.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, Epiphanies Host
    I think it was a shorthand for 'Mexico will pay directly or we'll slap tariffs on their trade to reimburse ourselves.' Figuring to use US economic power to impoverish a nation already significantly poorer.

    And that's 'America first'.
  • Just had a look at Colbert having a great old time with Rudy Giuliani's recent interviews.

    I have a good opinion of Rudy from his time as a prosecutor of the Mafia and the way he helped rally New York and by extension the whole country in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. While prosecutors of the Mafia have not to my knowledge been murdered in America, they have repeatedly been killed in Italy. It took guts to do what he did, and I will be blowed if I'm going to let him take that away from himself.

    Instead, I choose to believe that for the sake of the country he loves, he is playing the long game and allowing himself to look like a gormless idiot so as to undermine Trump FROM THE INSIDE.

    Mr Giuliani, I see what you are doing for America and the world and I salute you.
  • Simon Toad--

    I respectfully disagree, re Giuliani. If that turns out to be the case, great. IIRC, he'd seemed...scattered?...unhinged?...before hooking up with T.

    Re China's remark:

    Actually, I think it's pretty accurate. Look at the trade wars T has started/inflamed, for instance.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    My impression from reading The Sacramento Bee and The Wichita Eagle is that things are very much business as usual unless you happen to care about politics.
    Or happen to not be white and male.
  • One thing I'm tentatively expecting and fearing T to put forth, at some point:

    "Gee, there are so many great young people in this country. I like them, and they like me. Maybe we should have some kind of group, with snazzy uniforms and everything. We could call it 'Trump Youth'! Wouldn't that be great? And they'd make America great again."

    {Shudder.}
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    My impression from reading The Sacramento Bee and The Wichita Eagle is that things are very much business as usual unless you happen to care about politics.
    Or happen to not be white and male.

    I see you're a follower of the Wichita Eagle too!
  • Never heard of it.
  • Question I never thought of before - can Trump shut down the government indefinitely? If Reps and Dems don't agree to fund the border wall, and won't agree, never agree, can he rule indefinitely by decree?
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    edited August 2018
    He could conceivably veto every spending bill that comes across his desk. At some point the two parties might decide to work together enough to send a veto-proof bill, but given the current level of polarization, that's hard to imagine.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    ... can he rule indefinitely by decree?
    That thought is beyond frightening and out the other side.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, Epiphanies Host
    edited August 2018
    Well, I've just watched a bit of Anderson Cooper 360 which contained footage of outright rage and hostility directed at mainstream media representatives at a Trump rally. Conduct invited by Trump's characterisation of mainstream media as the enemy of the people. This now topped by the President's latest explosive tweets demanding a shut down of Mueller.

    Trump has dictatorial instincts and has consistently shown zero respect for separation of powers and media freedoms. The White House scurrying around on both these issues shows just how difficult it has become to control these instincts.

    I hope the constitution will hold and the GOP will recognise the imperative of supporting it against these attacks. Eventually, at any rate.
  • I doubt T has much, if any, interest in controlling his dictatorial instincts. He has various modes of functioning; but, mostly, he has to be living a story where he's the bestest best best best. And, if there's any hint that's untrue, he changes reality to fit what he needs.

    Look at the world leaders whose attention he craves and cultivates. Kim, of Korea. (Name), of China. Putin, wannabe Tsar Of All The Russias. T dreams of being in that crowd--and of being the top dog. I don't know what he'd do if he didn't get it. Then he'd need another search for more power. That's usually all he can process: "Donald has to be the bestest best best best, 'cause Daddy said that's the only way to be worth loving".

    I've been wondering about his feelings for Putin. Is it possible that, given P's public personality and power, T is seeking fathering from him?
  • I wonder what the next move will be now that Iran has publicly rebuffed Trump's first offer of talks.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited August 2018
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    I think it was a shorthand for 'Mexico will pay directly or we'll slap tariffs on their trade to reimburse ourselves.' Figuring to use US economic power to impoverish a nation already significantly poorer.

    And that's 'America first'.

    And who pays the tariffs? The American Consumers.

  • Netflix (US) has a video biography of Trump. He was already flaunting the law from the beginning.
  • MMMMMM Shipmate
    ?? Flaunt? Flout?

    MMM
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    He flaunts his flouting of the law.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, Epiphanies Host
    edited August 2018
    Try this on for size.

    And particularly this quote from Fox News's attack dog.
    Following the Tuesday rally in Tampa, Fox News’ leading Trump megaphone Sean Hannity applauded the attendees for berating Acosta.

    “The people of this country are screaming at you for a reason,” Hannity said, pretending to address Acosta. “They don’t like your unfair, abusively biased treatment of the president of the United States. "

    This increasing darkness is not incidental, it is pivotal to Trump's overall approach to any form of critical comment.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    That is one seriously frightening and depressing article.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited August 2018
    For the last couple of days, the press has been trying to get Sarah Sanders to tell them if she , she thought the press was the enemy of the people she has yet to take the bait. They even asked Ivanka what she thought of the press. Ivanka just smiled.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    Ivanka was asked "Is the media the enemy of the people?" First she seemed surprised and said, "Sorry?" The question was repeated and she smiled and said, "No. I do not."
  • I'd like to start thinking about how the Democrats can mould all this stuff that is coming at us into sharp messages that can be repeated over and over in the lead-up to the election in November. I know marketing isn't very popular, especially after the disastrous British election and the shaming of Theresa May for her three-word slogans. But good political marketing is about themes, about picking up on what people don't like about the opposition and putting that into words that stick in the head.

    I think Trump's obvious problem can be summed up in with these words: You can't trust him.

    Mueller is not likely to report before the midterms, so I would stay away from stuff like traitor, criminal, conspirator or colluder. That will appeal to friends, but I want to appeal to independents and moderate Republicans, and you don't need to go for the jugular. That stuff is out there anyway. I'd look at all his backflips instead.

    I'll leave it there cos wife home.
  • Wesley JWesley J Shipmate
    edited August 2018
    Lyda wrote: »
    Ivanka was asked "Is the media the enemy of the people?" First she seemed surprised and said, "Sorry?" The question was repeated and she smiled and said, "No. I do not."
    If this is true, I am appalled that she didn't even deign to answer in a grammatically correct manner. 'No, they aren't' (or 'No, it isn't') would be much better. And 'Dad, stop that nonsense and resign now', perhaps the best.

    In related news, I've come across this, reported in Canada by CBS:
    In a divided U.S., therapists treating anxiety are hearing the same name over and over: Donald Trump - 'Trump Anxiety Disorder' may not be an official diagnosis, but therapists know the symptoms

    I find that remarkable, and it helps to put a name to it.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I've got a video on my Bookface thing feed which apparently has him totally confused over Britain, Great Britain, UK and England.. apparently we used to be called England but now we're the UK or something. The man's an idiot.
  • I like Facefacts
  • You mean this?
    “I have great respect for the U.K., United Kingdom, great respect,” said Trump. “People call it Britain. They call it Great Britain. They used to call it England, different parts.”

    A few weeks ago, I believe he said Ireland was part of Great Britain -- it must have broken off.
  • FWIW: It can be hard for non-UKians to keep track of all of that.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    edited August 2018
    Fair enough, but if the non-UKian in question is the Leader of the Free World™ and supposedly one of our main allies ...

    ION, he seems now to be not only denying that he kept the Queen waiting (which was well documented at the time), but saying that he had to wait for her.

    Does he really not know truth from fiction?

  • He has to make the world into what he want it to be, into what he can cope with. And he'll do what it takes.

    In his various modes of functioning, ISTM that he often has very little connection to what some call "consensus reality". I imagine it as him seeing/feeling that he's in thick fog, all by himself, and bubbles of thought and sound appear. He doesn't really know what they are; but he tries to figure them out, and can't.
  • Piglet wrote: »
    Does he really not know truth from fiction?

    In one word - no.

  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, Epiphanies Host
    That also seems to be true about his loyal 'fan base'.

    The cynical reinforcement of 'alternative facts' by Fox News attack dogs, well that's another matter.
  • The BBC Fact-Checker says he did not keep the Queen waiting.
  • Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    You mean this?
    “I have great respect for the U.K., United Kingdom, great respect,” said Trump. “People call it Britain. They call it Great Britain. They used to call it England, different parts.”

    A few weeks ago, I believe he said Ireland was part of Great Britain -- it must have broken off.

    To be fair, it is a little bit complicated... This is an excellent explanation....

    But as a Stable Genius you wouldn't expect him to struggle with it surely? Conversely it highlights his deeper problem. He either doesn't know or chooses to not acknowledge just how ignorant he is. This is the kind of thing a good advisor would prevent him getting wrong. Does it matter in this speech? No, not really. Most Brits like me, just don't care. It's fun to explain to people how our country actually works. It's fun explaining it to fellow Brits too...

    But the deeper problem - a refusal to look for or take good advice. A refusal to understand there are things he does not know and needs help with; these are the markers of deep ignorance and that is very dangerous in a world leader. It is especially dangerous in the leader of a superpower.

    AFZ
  • AFZ, are the four 'countries' that constitute the United Kingdom sovereign? Is Northern Ireland a country? I bristle at that last one, like I REALLY bristle at that last one. Like, I didn't think I had an Irish Republican bone left in me but it turns out I was wrong type of bristle. How is England sovereign, as distinct from the United Kingdom? These questions suggest that the linked explanation is flawed.

    All this shit about what an idiot Trump is I find to be passe. I mean, this has been a known fact since at least the mid-1990's. That Trump calls the UK by the wrong term is so utterly tedious, irrelevant and unimportant. It is important to understand how a bloke with his background and track record got elected, in that this knowledge will help in ensuring nobody like him gets elected again.

    But the most important issue is how to get rid of him. I am presently listening to this podcast: Russia if you are Listening, by the ABC in Australia. It is a look back over the Mueller Investigation. It is good listening, because it reminds you just how much shit Trump and Bob Sessions are in, among others. There are very good and cogent reasons why Sessions recused himself from overseeing the Mueller Inquiry. He has probably been very very naughty.

    In short, the Mueller Report is likely to be able to show that Trump committed a bunch of crimes in the leadup to the 2016 election. What is needed in order to give effect to that report is a big win for the Democrats in the November election.

    That Trump is a survivor with the instincts of a mongoose will not save him if a Democratic controlled Congress takes delivery of Mueller's report. All those Giuliani arguments about being able to indict a sitting President will mean nothing when the only place former President Trump will be sitting is in a jail cell because he is a flight risk.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    I wouldn't get too judgemental about Trump not knowing the exact jurisdictional terminology of the UK.

    "...she lived through two world wars..."

    This after giving the woman's birth date as 1922.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    The BBC Fact-Checker says he did not keep the Queen waiting.

    Link?
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