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Purgatory: Coronavirus

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  • HeavenlyannieHeavenlyannie Shipmate
    edited February 2020
    Here in Cambridge I very seldom see anyone smoke. There is also quite a class divide; I move in middle class circles and almost nobody smokes yet my working class family from Luton still contains a few smokers.
    The ban on smoking in public buildings has also had a big effect on smoking.
  • A Feminine ForceA Feminine Force Shipmate
    edited February 2020
    I don't get it. Europe is socially so far ahead of north America in so many ways, but in this respect they are thirty years behind. Everyone smokes. The British the Spanish the Swedes the Germans the French.

    I would say that smoking in public (apart from in the evening, outside a pub) has become vanishing rare here. I see more people vaping than smoking.

    Then they all must be smoking on vacation in Spain because it's far from rare on the Costa del Sol.

    Also. All it takes is ONE smoker to foul the atmosphere of an entire terrace. Especially if it's under an awning.

    It's truly the most self destructive selfish behaviour. I don't give a rats ass how you want to commit suicide, just don't poison me as part of your pact with death.

    And more on topic - if you must cough or sneeze, do it into your elbow.

    AFF
  • I'd really like to know how people do that. They say that here, too, and when I tried, I found that my nose comes to roughly halfway down my upper arm--quite a long way from the elbow, actually closer to the shoulder, and in a location which is no use at all for containing germs. Am I just a gorilla or something?
  • A Feminine ForceA Feminine Force Shipmate
    edited February 2020
    The inside of the elbow is less likely to come into contact with other surfaces, unlike the palm of your hand. If you have ever worked in food service, this is SOP. Most of us can bury our faces in our elbows.

    If you lack the flexibility to reach your nose with the inside of your elbow the other alternative is to cross your arms (hands on opposite shoulders) in front of your face and sneeze downwards towards your chest.

    The whole idea being - don't create a huge aerosol cloud in your vicinity and don't use your hands. This is SOP in any commercial kitchen, I don't know why it isn't SOP everywhere.

    AFF

  • Oh, I've got the flexibility--I've got HED (hypermobility type). From what you're saying, I apparently have extremely long upper arms. (sigh) I knew I was a gorilla...
  • How many people read that exchange and tried to fit noses to elbows?

    No, just me then?
  • you, I hope. Can you do it, then? Or am I all alone in my freakishness?
  • I can do it very easily.
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    Cathscats wrote: »
    How many people read that exchange and tried to fit noses to elbows?

    No, just me then?

    Yep - and it does fit 🤔

  • Where's the :waaaaaaaaa!: smiley?
  • you, I hope. Can you do it, then? Or am I all alone in my freakishness?

    No. I'm freakish, too. The inner crook of my elbow is still in the distance no matter how much I scrunch my arm up to meet my mouth and nose. Of course, if I'm dressed for outdoor weather, with my usual several layers that might be a different matter!

    I suppose the chief thing to avoid is to sneeze/cough into a hand and then subsequently. transfer the hand germs all over the place and other people.
  • Anselmina wrote: »
    you, I hope. Can you do it, then? Or am I all alone in my freakishness?

    No. I'm freakish, too. The inner crook of my elbow is still in the distance no matter how much I scrunch my arm up to meet my mouth and nose. Of course, if I'm dressed for outdoor weather, with my usual several layers that might be a different matter!

    I suppose the chief thing to avoid is to sneeze/cough into a hand and then subsequently. transfer the hand germs all over the place and other people.

    Two things.

    1) Suppress the dispersion of a giant aerosol cloud.

    2) Keep hands away from aerosol components.

    AFF



  • This is what handkerchiefs are for. In the absence of an accessible elbow, of course.
  • This is what handkerchiefs are for. In the absence of an accessible elbow, of course.

    Maybe we if could attach handkerchiefs to mobile phones their use might make a resurgence. Because right now they are relics of some antediluvian human prehistory.


    AFF
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    Does that mean they’re valuable? Because I’ve got a drawerful in every state from nearly new to disgraceful.
  • The problem with handkerchiefs is you handle them with your hands, so whatever you sneeze has the chance of rubbing off on your hands.
  • Yes, we’ll, the same is true of tissues, as I remind my smug relatives. (You needs,t use the same hanky all day, and there are folding tricks to prevent touching yckkkk.)
  • "Blow your nose and keep it. Put it on your pocket. Show it to your friends!"
  • "Blow your nose and keep it. Put it on your pocket. Show it to your friends!"

    Or as Mike Warnke said, "I've gotta check that out when I've got better light."
  • I've seen at least 3 times toddlers picking their noses and sharing it. If that doesn't make you believe in God nothing will.
  • There are still many unknowns about this Coronavirus. While they are working hard on finding a vaccine, one of the things I find solace in is that at least I have the current pneumonia vaccine which means I may be able to survive a secondary infection should I contract the coronavirus.
  • I've been trying to persuade my fellow members of the congregation to fist bump rather than shake hands when passing the peace. Hopefully we can then pass on nothing more than a greeting rather than sharing the germs.
  • Air kiss. Grab each other by the forearms and pretend to lean in to kiss each cheek, keeping your heads 12 to 18 inches apart. No germs passed, if nobody sneezes.
  • I'm gunna grab the communal chalice, slam it down like a can of solo, and hopefully have a red stain on my lip when I grin at everyone. Then I shall beat my chest, and drop to my knees ready to be cuffed and assessed by a CAT team.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    --Many people will just kind of bow at each other, to avoid picking up germs via touching. Some do more of a Buddhist/Hindu namaste' greeting bow, with hands together. (That might be more of a California thing.)

    --IME, some people in food work sniffle/sneeze into the edge of their armpits or onto their upper sleeve. Farther away from the food than elbows are.

    --We have several corona virus cases here in the SF Bay Area.

    --This weekend is the Chinese New Year Parade and Street Fair. Very big deal, and not just for Chinese folks.

    --Mix the last two points together; add in SF as an international tourist destination; and shake that all together...

    (:votive:)
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    I'm gunna grab the communal chalice, slam it down like a can of solo, and hopefully have a red stain on my lip when I grin at everyone. Then I shall beat my chest, and drop to my knees ready to be cuffed and assessed by a CAT team.

    This might perhaps be a good time to experiment with using the "wee cuppies", rather than a communal chalice.

    (Comment is in "half fun, and full earnest", to quote Andrew Greeley's Fr. Blackie.)
  • lol. so was mine ;)

    Most of us Catholics will abstain from communion in both kinds, and just go with the Body. At the church I attend, the line for the Blood is usually causing logistical problems, so I tend to skip anyway.
  • Leorning CnihtLeorning Cniht Shipmate
    edited February 2020
    Oh, I've got the flexibility--I've got HED (hypermobility type). From what you're saying, I apparently have extremely long upper arms. (sigh) I knew I was a gorilla...

    It's not like your nose can only reach one place on your arms. I find that I can place my nose anywhere along the length of my arm, from the armpit to the hand (obviously with a change in arm positioning.) It's just easier to encapsulate a sneeze with an elbow than a bicep.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Air kiss. Grab each other by the forearms and pretend to lean in to kiss each cheek, keeping your heads 12 to 18 inches apart. No germs passed, if nobody sneezes.

    Fist dap.

    Elbow bump.

    Namaste (@Golden Key I love this - jet propels people right out of their facade if only for a brief moment).

    Vulcan Salute (also love this as it is an ancient Hebrew gesture of blessing).

    Deuces.

    So many non-germy ways of greeting and saluting each other.

    AFF
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited February 2020
    Oh, I've got the flexibility--I've got HED (hypermobility type). From what you're saying, I apparently have extremely long upper arms. (sigh) I knew I was a gorilla...

    It's not like your nose can only reach one place on your arms. I find that I can place my nose anywhere along the length of my arm, from the armpit to the hand (obviously with a change in arm positioning.) It's just easier to encapsulate a sneeze with an elbow than a bicep.

    YOUR nose and arm can do that. Mine can only manage shoulder down to about two inches before the elbow, then there's a gap, and then two inches after the elbow I can reach again. I'd have to seriously dislocate something to stick my nose in my elbow.
  • Oh, I've got the flexibility--I've got HED (hypermobility type). From what you're saying, I apparently have extremely long upper arms. (sigh) I knew I was a gorilla...

    It's not like your nose can only reach one place on your arms. I find that I can place my nose anywhere along the length of my arm, from the armpit to the hand (obviously with a change in arm positioning.) It's just easier to encapsulate a sneeze with an elbow than a bicep.

    YOUR nose and arm can do that. Mine can only manage shoulder down to about two inches before the elbow, then there's a gap, and then two inches after the elbow I can reach again. I'd have to seriously dislocate something to stick my nose in my elbow.

    So go for option B.

    Put one hand on either shoulder and cough/sneeze downward into the cavity towards your chest.

    In food prep this is the preferred option but seldom do we have both hands free, hence the elbow thing.

    Actually the preferred thing is that you call in sick and don't bring it with you into the work environment. But that first sneeze or cough can take you unawares anywhere.

    AFF
  • Locally there are quite a few Chinese, and other East Asian nationality, students at the universities, but I've actually seen hardly anyone wearing a face mask.
  • The anti-facemask MSM is coming out with stories about their fundamental lack of utility in stopping germ transmission. Bastards.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    edited February 2020
    I understand it's common in Japanese culture to wear a face mask **to avoid infecting other people**.

    I've got some of those surgical-type masks. Have had them stashed for a while. (Bought at a dollar store, IIRC.) I've seen mention that they don't do much good. OTOH, doctors' offices tell patients to ask for one, if they come in while sick--to avoid spreading whatever germ is going around.

    I've got health problems, particularly with my immune system. I'm going to put a few masks in a resealable bag and put them in my purse, along with hand sanitizer* and another bag of wet wipes. If I feel the need, I'll have some protection.

    *Not Purell, which supposedly has some kind of problem. This is herb-based. And I have another that's something like "Pure and Free".
  • I was sorry to read you are unwell GK. I had a nasty bug in early Jan, and I still have a cough. Get well soon!
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    Well, it's true that face masks don't stop germ transmission. But, especially when coupled with other hygiene measures, they can reduce germ transmission.

    Properly fitted quality masks do reduce the number of aerosol particles you breathe in, and hence the number of viral particles. On the assumption that rate of infection is proportional to the number of particles you breathe in then that should reduce the rate of infection. This is less effective for lower quality masks, and those not fitted properly. Similar arguments apply to other aerosols and particulates, such as traffic pollution.

    Wearing a mask does reduce the frequency with which people touch their mouth and nose. Collection of viral particles onto hands from surfaces (and, vice versa) is often the primary route of transmission. So that effect of a mask can be very significant. Assuming wearing a mask is accompanied by an adequate hand washing regime. And, the mask doesn't stop people touching their eyes, which can also be an issue.

    Not related to germ transmission, wearing a face mask can have important psychological impacts of people feeling they're doing something to keep themselves and others safer. The risks from this strain of coronavirus are generally very low in most of the world, close to the point of non-existent in most places, but if people are afraid of it but more comfortable going out and about on their daily routine if they wear a mask then that's important for their general well-being.

    There are also non-health related psychological reasons to wear a mask. When in Japan I got used to seeing people wearing masks. And, one of the reasons given was that especially in Tokyo people don't have personal space in public. On trains, buses, even many walkways and some stores, the number of people mean that the western habit of maintaining a volume of personal space is impossible, a lot of time is spent with people in physical contact because there's no space. A face mask creates a form of barrier, hiding your face to provide a form of anonymity that creates a different form of personal space that the number of people deprives you of otherwise.
  • Chilperic, having been out of China for over a fortnight, condemned us all to self-quarantine because of a 2 hour stopover in Kuala Lumpur. It finishes on Thursday, but hasn't been fun, especially with L1 severely asthmatic. At least we can go for walks, keeping well away from other people, unlike the poor blighters stuck in China with one person allowed out every other day and their movements monitored.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    lol. so was mine ;)

    Most of us Catholics will abstain from communion in both kinds, and just go with the Body. At the church I attend, the line for the Blood is usually causing logistical problems, so I tend to skip anyway.

    The C of E has issued guidelines re Communion, so our priest has decided to withhold the chalice whilst the 'scare' is on, and until he receives further advice from Head Office. He has explained all this to the congregation, so yesterday all received in one kind only.

    Wine is still consecrated (apparently, Canon law requires it to be), but only the priest consumes it.

    Result - a rather quicker Communion time, no complaints AFAIK, and no intinction (one or two tend to do that, but it is recommended that this practice be discontinued).

    BTW, he has also started to use the Holy Hand Gel, but after the exchange of the Peace (which we do in the Roman place, just before Communion).

  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    Why not use little cups for wine? - we have them every week.
  • We could do, though it's not the usual practice of the C of E, and we would have to go out and buy them (and the trays, I suppose). It would also make more work for Madam Sacristan, which would not be a Good Idea...

    It seems more sensible to simply NOT use the chalice pro tem, and it has been made clear to people that receiving in one kind only (i.e. the Host wafer) is a 'full' Communion, IYSWIM.

    In fact, Home Communions are usually in one kind only, anyway.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    Interesting since the official advice does not recommend withholding the common cup, merely what should be standard practice,
    advising parishioners with coughs and sneezes to refrain from handshaking during The Peace and to receive Communion in one kind only.
  • Yes, quite right. I should have made my earlier post clearer.

    Our p-in-c has taken it a stage further, IYSWIM, but he says this is what he did in his previous parish, some 10 years back, during the swine flu scare (I think that's what it was).

    As I remarked above, AFAIK our congregation has made no objection to the chalice being withheld for the time being. I guess it may be logistically easier to withhold the chalice, than to stop folk shaking hands during the Peace!
  • I saw a notice in a school which was from NHS England and said something like "Don't worry we've got a handle on this."

    Certain medical contacts suggest that if the number of infected people is more than a handful in any one location then the NHS won't cope - in fact, it can't cope.
  • BroJames wrote: »
    Interesting since the official advice does not recommend withholding the common cup, merely what should be standard practice,
    advising parishioners with coughs and sneezes to refrain from handshaking during The Peace and to receive Communion in one kind only.

    Sharing a common cup is bad news for some of us anyway …. the thought that someone else has
  • I shall continue to enjoy Chinese Takeaways, like I did tonight. But maybe take a break from them for a little while after they return from their trip to see relatives later this year. (Unless it's over by then.)
  • I'll still eat them. Mind you, it's a virus and even handwashing with soap plus alcohol gel will only be partly effective. Probably tops at 80% my source tells me.
  • We're still receiving in both kinds. Intinction is not on the cards anyway as Fr Duck has decided Views against that.
  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    There was a bloke on the bus yesterday who was coughing and sneezing a lot. He didn't bother with the gymnastics of sneezing into his elbow, but pulled out the neckline of the T shirt he was wearing and sneezed onto his chest, thereby containing the droplets.
  • edited February 2020
    Huia wrote: »
    There was a bloke on the bus yesterday who was coughing and sneezing a lot. He didn't bother with the gymnastics of sneezing into his elbow, but pulled out the neckline of the T shirt he was wearing and sneezed onto his chest, thereby containing the droplets.

    Do you think he caught them all? I don' think.

    Typically it only takes 20 viroids to infect someone. Typically there's 200 million in most bodily excretions once a person is infected. Long odds on prevention.
  • Quite cheap airfares to Europe at the moment. You can get to London from Melbourne for $1200 return on one of the east asian airlines. That's about $1000 off, per person. We will probably see you Pommy bastards in October.

    I'm hoping for a price war, and to juggle the moment of purchase with everyone calming down about this. I saw a worrying article yesterday indicating that 4 out of 5 people with coronavirus only get very mild symptoms. Way too soon for good news people.
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