Fuck this fucking virus with a fucking farm implement.

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Comments

  • Anselmina--

    The hospital bag sounds like a good idea. Can't hurt to do it. Maybe near your door?

    Maybe put a note/label on it where someone can see it?

    (I take care of myself, too.)
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    And a second person I know has apparently contracted the bastard thing. 😭

    Neither one is dangerously ill at the minute but they're both feeling terrible.

    Bugger, bugger and thrice bugger. 😱
  • @Anselmina - yes to the hospital bag (please God it won't be needed).

    As to the Large Dog, is there someone in your congregation who might look after said Dog, should you be Stricken (please God it won't happen)? They may not be an obvious Dog Person, but may be willing to help anyway.
  • When I picked up my son last week he'd said that if the schools close he would walk in with a placard saying "my education is important". Is sacrificing the education an future of our children worth saving the lives of a few elderly folk? Apparently it is, but there's nothing new there ... the government was perfectly willing to leave the EU, f*cking over the future of our children to satisfy the racism of the elderly. Why not another hit to our children's future to help the elderly?
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    @Alan Cresswell the argument here from the government is that children can be "super spreaders". And apparently, over half the people admitted to ICU for this in France right now are under 60
  • From news stories, I've heard there are many younger people who've contracted the virus. Not sure if any have died.

    Older folks may be at much more risk, but they aren't the only ones at risk.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Correction from tonight's health briefing: half.
  • Black CatBlack Cat Shipmate Posts: 23
    My mum-in-law, not me, is in the high risk group, but I'm beginning to feel old when I see people younger than me who seem to think that, if it only really affects old people, what's the big deal? I can only charitably presume they have never yet lost a loved one...
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/mar/18/tech-execs-who-dont-agree-coronavirus-measures
  • Children get the flu vaccine because they do spread it, and if they pick it up and take it home they could pass it around. A lot of schools would be struggling with staff anyway due to the social distancing rules.
  • There is also the element of what damage the virus might do to even the lungs of a younger survivor, leaving them potentially extra vulnerable to ordinary 'flus and viruses etc, in the future. Nothing proved, I understand, because nothing is known about long-term consequences of this virus.

    I get Alan's point about children's education being important, but our countries' education systems are surely up to the task of re-organising appropriate catch-up teaching and re-scheduled examinations at less crucial times? Another factor is that there might be a significant number of teachers, teaching assistants, admin, cleaning and catering staff - to say nothing of those who administrate and invigilate exam processes - who themselves come under various categories of 'at risk' or vulnerable. It might not be right to expect them to refrain from taking measures to protect their own health. Additionally, some of these people may have, or soon have, family members who they might have to take care of. In a situation like this, it isn't just about children, which makes it all rather complicated.
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    I think it might be good for children to experience a little home schooling. If they're in a state of panic over the thought of missing a few months of formal education it might be time to, "learn how to learn," with less structure. It would be a good time to try creative writing, learn to play an instrument, invent something.

    When Orville Wright was a senior in high school, planning to go to college, he got hit in the mouth with a board by the school bully. He never made it to college, but spent the next year at home suffering from intense pain and infection from his teeth and caring for his dying mother. During that time he read everything he could find or send away for about flight. He began to watch the birds and think, and finally figured out how to build the first airplane. I'll bet if his "education" hadn't been interrupted none of that would have happened.
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    Or consider how Newton spent his time when his school was closed on account of sickness:
    Then, in 1665, the plague closed the university, and for most of the following two years he was forced to stay at his home, contemplating at leisure what he had learned. During the plague years Newton laid the foundations of the calculus and extended an earlier insight into an essay, “Of Colours,” which contains most of the ideas elaborated in his Opticks. It was during this time that he examined the elements of circular motion and, applying his analysis to the Moon and the planets, derived the inverse square relation that the radially directed force acting on a planet decreases with the square of its distance from the Sun—which was later crucial to the law of universal gravitation.
    Just a few minor diversions to while away the hours until "Friends" becomes available for streaming...
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    When I picked up my son last week he'd said that if the schools close he would walk in with a placard saying "my education is important". Is sacrificing the education an future of our children worth saving the lives of a few elderly folk? Apparently it is, but there's nothing new there ... the government was perfectly willing to leave the EU, f*cking over the future of our children to satisfy the racism of the elderly. Why not another hit to our children's future to help the elderly?

    Wow. Just wow. Other people are being nice, but I think this is a pretty fucking selfish of both you and your son. My thirteen-year-old nephew is just fine with missing some school in order to reduce the possibility of both his grandmothers dying within the next few months. Not to mention all the other people who will die if/when our hospitals are overwhelmed, many of whom are not elderly and as such may have lives you'd consider valuable. Car crashes and heart attacks and cancers and shitloads of other stuff will keep right on happening to people of all ages.

    I have friends whose three-year-old son has leukemia, and the treatment for that suppresses his immune system. They have rushed him to the ER dozens of times in the last year and a half because the smallest of infections is potentially life-threatening. They'd like him to have a future, but that will be horrifically threatened if the health care system is choked with people suddenly suffering severe forms of Covid-19.

    The schools where I live are closed, and probably won't re-open till the fall. Provisions have been made for those receiving school lunches to continue to have access to that. Childcare facilities in the six counties in northern California that are on lockdown have remained open, as they are essential services. The biggest local internet service provider is offering 60 days of free internet access to households with students from pre-kindergarten through college. If things like that aren't happening where you live, perhaps you should be agitating for that to happen instead of writing off human lives in favor of a few months of school for your kid.
  • This morning I had a charming email from the Managing Director of Sainsbury's, explaining how they were doing their best, and would give delivery priority to the over 70s and those at risk. Heartened by this I tried to contact the company to explain I was at risk, and that continued home deliveries would be great.

    All I could find on line was a standard form for commenting on the delivery service, so I tried to ring. It took 4 attempts even to get the recorded message - which I listened to for 1 hr 20 mins, frequently being urged to go on line. When I finally spoke to someone she said she would have to transfer my call, at which point the line went dead. I know they are swamped at the moment, but I didn't feel happy after that.

    On the plus side my local vet rang to say they had some stuff for my cats, which was then brought round to my door at no charge. People are good, and are trying their best in difficult circumstances. I must remind myself of that when I get fed up.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    The special time is a nice gesture. But they're expecting elderly and/or disabled folks to be there at 7 am??? I know some older folks wake up very early; but they and many disable folks may have difficulties in getting up, out, and to the store.

    The only practical way to do a "vulnerable people shopping hour" is to close down, restock the shelves, sanitize the %%$# out of everything, and then let the vulnerable people in. Doing it at opening time reduces the risk of transmission, as it's been several hours since the public were last in the building.
  • "My education is important"

    Unfortunately, it looks as if everyone is about to get schooled on a wide variety of subjects, in the most brutal possible way.
  • When I picked up my son last week he'd said that if the schools close he would walk in with a placard saying "my education is important". Is sacrificing the education an future of our children worth saving the lives of a few elderly folk? Apparently it is, but there's nothing new there ... the government was perfectly willing to leave the EU, f*cking over the future of our children to satisfy the racism of the elderly. Why not another hit to our children's future to help the elderly?

    Education is important. But education can happen at home, and even if the kids all take a couple of months off to play video games, it's not the end of the world. The bigger challenge with closing schools isn't "oh, my kids won't get an education" but "now their parents can't work".

    Our local schools have started online learning today. Everyone is very carefully not telling the kids that this period of online learning isn't counting towards their grade. Arrangements are being made for the small minority of kids who don't have internet at home.

    Like Ruth says, your darling little asymptomatic plague vectors are busily swapping viruses with a thousand of their closest friends. Any time there's a bug going around, it spreads fastest via the schools (kids have poor hygiene, no personal space issues, and are crammed into densely-packed classrooms - take your pick).

    (And for the record, closing the schools also means closing childcare centers, arcades, gyms, and other places where kids congregate. There's no point in closing schools if the kids all go and gather somewhere else - if the schools close, the kids need to stay home, away from other people.)
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    edited March 2020
    In the 1950s I had several months of no schooling because of rheumatic fever - followed by some years of a highly indoor life because of fears of a heart condition.

    It meant I read Dickens when I was eight and by the time I hit secondary school I was way ahead in literacy.

    Frankly, I'm not sure school was even the major element in my education.
  • And with the added bonus of not being put off by studying it to death in English Literature lessons!!
  • Firenze wrote: »
    Frankly, I'm not sure school was even the major element in my education.

    I've thought that many times. If anything, it turned me off to subjects that, as an adult, I've found fascinating.

    Reading has always been my favorite form of learning, not boring classes with bored teachers.
  • I would think some education in banking, taxes, cooking, gardening, sewing, auto care and other life skills may come in handy later on.
  • And there are various home-schooling materials online, 'cause pre-existing home schooling.
  • anoesisanoesis Shipmate
    I was home-schooled for a few years. It utterly blew. And that's coming from someone who was bullied a fair bit at school. I would rather have continued dealing with that, than have only my parents and my one sibling for company six days out of the seven.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    This is all wonderful, but for every natural bookworm there are a dozen kids who read only if you're standing behind them with a rawhide whip.

    Boy #1 is working his arse off to get his 8 in his Maths mock up to a 9. Be a waste of time if they decide to base GCSE results on the mocks instead.
  • I am in an at-risk group due to a preexisting respiratory condition. All this banning of social interaction and events is being done to protect me.

    Bear that in mind when I say that I would much rather take my chances with the virus than cancel my entire life for an unspecified amount of time. Some things are more important than the mere perpetuation of biological functions. What’s the point of saving my life if I have to destroy my life to do it?
  • Because temporary.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    KarlLB wrote: »
    This is all wonderful, but for every natural bookworm there are a dozen kids who read only if you're standing behind them with a rawhide whip.

    Boy #1 is working his arse off to get his 8 in his Maths mock up to a 9. Be a waste of time if they decide to base GCSE results on the mocks instead.

    He can resit in the future if necessary - and he will be better at maths.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    This is all wonderful, but for every natural bookworm there are a dozen kids who read only if you're standing behind them with a rawhide whip.

    Boy #1 is working his arse off to get his 8 in his Maths mock up to a 9. Be a waste of time if they decide to base GCSE results on the mocks instead.

    He can resit in the future if necessary - and he will be better at maths.

    Well, as it happens, he's doing maths and further maths for A level, so possibly a bad example. Resits are all very well, but they take time out of what you're meant to be doing then

    I am not opposed to the closing of schools. I am annoyed about the lack of clarity wrt exams, and I think all the "kids will read and that's better than school" stuff is hopelessly naive. Some people on here seem to assume too much that other people are like them, while, godsdammit, the Sunday Attendance thread shows that a significant proportion of the crew actually like going to church. We are not normal.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    This is all wonderful, but for every natural bookworm there are a dozen kids who read only if you're standing behind them with a rawhide whip.

    Boy #1 is working his arse off to get his 8 in his Maths mock up to a 9. Be a waste of time if they decide to base GCSE results on the mocks instead.

    He can resit in the future if necessary - and he will be better at maths.

    Well, as it happens, he's doing maths and further maths for A level, so possibly a bad example. Resits are all very well, but they take time out of what you're meant to be doing then

    I am not opposed to the closing of schools. I am annoyed about the lack of clarity wrt exams, and I think all the "kids will read and that's better than school" stuff is hopelessly naive. Some people on here seem to assume too much that other people are like them, while, godsdammit, the Sunday Attendance thread shows that a significant proportion of the crew actually like going to church. We are not normal.

    If it's at all reassuring, nobody is going to give a shit about whether your son has an 8 or a 9 at GCSE once he has double maths A-Levels. Either way it's an A* under the old system, and everyone will know that results from this year are approximate anyway.
  • When I picked up my son last week he'd said that if the schools close he would walk in with a placard saying "my education is important". Is sacrificing the education an future of our children worth saving the lives of a few elderly folk? Apparently it is, but there's nothing new there ... the government was perfectly willing to leave the EU, f*cking over the future of our children to satisfy the racism of the elderly. Why not another hit to our children's future to help the elderly?

    Education is important. But education can happen at home, and even if the kids all take a couple of months off to play video games, it's not the end of the world. The bigger challenge with closing schools isn't "oh, my kids won't get an education" but "now their parents can't work".

    Our local schools have started online learning today. Everyone is very carefully not telling the kids that this period of online learning isn't counting towards their grade. Arrangements are being made for the small minority of kids who don't have internet at home.

    Like Ruth says, your darling little asymptomatic plague vectors are busily swapping viruses with a thousand of their closest friends. Any time there's a bug going around, it spreads fastest via the schools (kids have poor hygiene, no personal space issues, and are crammed into densely-packed classrooms - take your pick).
    Of course, some people can learn very effectively from books at home. Others can't. I guess we'll find out where my kids sit on that spectrum. I know the boy needs structure and predictability; he'll miss the dozen kids in his support group (maybe not even all of those) and the specialist support teachers, he probably won't miss the thousand-plus other kids at the school who he doesn't really interact with, except for the few in his year group that he shares those lessons he can with.

    Besides which, it doesn't alter the fact that practically the whole of the government briefings and media reporting is that "we're doing all we can to protect the vulnerable (read: elderly) members of our society". I know that the people we're protecting is wider than that because anyone who goes down with severe symptoms is at risk of significant complications even if they don't get killed by it, and a small number of all those infected, regardless of age or underlying conditions, will get more than just a fever and cough for a couple of days. And, the resources of the NHS which had already been pared down beyond the point of being able to handle normal conditions will be stretched beyond the point where they can manage to help all of society.

    This is Hell, right. I was venting in part on behalf of my boy who needs particular additional support that the unit in the school he's at provides. In part venting at the way our government and media present the measures they're taking, including closing schools to the detriment of children, as protecting the elderly in our society as though their welfare is more important than anything else. Part because this f*cking virus has turned my world upside down and when it comes to the point that I need to stop going into work being shut up in my flat on my own is going to send me totally nuts within a couple of days (and, I'm an introvert ... how an extrovert will cope I shudder to imagine). In part because I had been looking forward to taking the children down to see my mum over Easter, because we've not had a chance to visit since Christmas and it's good for children (of all ages) to spend time with their parents and grandparents, and was hoping to organise a holiday together over the summer and there might not be very many more years where that's possible. I'm also venting because there are so many other vulnerable people, even in a relatively prosperous town, who will be impacted - those who find the library to be a lifeline, those who rely on schools to ensure their children have at least one hot meal a day, those who rely on food banks that have been forced to close, those who don't get paid enough anyway and are now not getting paid at all. Those who have been right royally screwed over by the government for 10 years and now have to bear the burden of protecting society from something outwith the control of the government (I bet MPs and government ministers self-isolating for a couple of weeks don't get their pay cut to a below-living-cost sick pay rate).
  • TubbsTubbs Admin
    edited March 2020
    I understand the butterfly effect but if you told me in January that we’d all be confined to barracks because of a bat in Wuhan ... Must have been a bloody big bat.
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    Alan Cresswell wrote:I know the boy needs structure and predictability;
    I hear you. Those things are vital to my son, too, along with balance and not too much silence, and Marvin's anticipatory anxiety comes right through my screen.

    My son didn't seem to realize the full risk he was taking, by working the register at a big grocery store, until yesterday. Now he's trying to make the decision to quit or not and that's agonizing in itself. As he put it, "My brain is already messed up I don't think it could take 12 days fever." Even a common cold messes with his medication and lets nightmares and voices through. His biggest worry is bringing it home to me. He feels guilt to the nth degree so I worry that he'll worry and it goes around and around.

    I'm probably trying to help him make the decision to quit for the duration. I believe Doublethink's words are what I should cling to:
    Because temporary.

  • kingsfoldkingsfold Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Besides which, it doesn't alter the fact that practically the whole of the government briefings and media reporting is that "we're doing all we can to protect the vulnerable (read: elderly) members of our society".

    The cynic in me translates this as "We're doing all we can to protect Tory voters"
  • Does the government care about anyone but Tory (or potential Tory) voters? I've become way too wise cynical about the current government in recent years.
  • tclunetclune Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    For want of a better place to post this, here is a list with links to 450 free classes offered online by Ivy league schools to anyone who wants to take them. Just a little something to help you through sheltering in place, FWIW.
  • Does the government care about anyone but Tory (or potential Tory) voters? I've become way too wise cynical about the current government in recent years.

    When you've got Tory MPs like Jenkin, IDS and Redwood - plus Telegraph editor - telling the government they need to start doing more to help workers, then we are in truly uncharted territory.

    In a bit of more uplifting news, Rev T is out doing foodbank stuff. (We're still opening, just not sure how it's going to work). In that time I've had someone else drop stuff at our door and taken a few calls from people asking if we're still taking donations.
  • Tubbs wrote: »
    Does the government care about anyone but Tory (or potential Tory) voters? I've become way too wise cynical about the current government in recent years.

    When you've got Tory MPs like Jenkin, IDS and Redwood - plus Telegraph editor - telling the government they need to start doing more to help workers, then we are in truly uncharted territory.

    I’m pretty cynical about the current govt, but I’m with Tubbs on this.
    They found the magic money tree, though afaict they’re not giving anywhere near enough guidance / instruction / help quickly enough for small businesses, and so are increasing the risk of infection.

    This is a new, and scary place. The shutting of schools is shitty but essential, and I hope to goodness that the govt sort out nutrition for those kids who rely on their free school meals. The thought of having all 3 of them home for months (along with MrJt9, who is no working from home forever, and let’s hope he still has a job in a few months’ time....) is, er, a challenge
  • Tubbs wrote: »
    Does the government care about anyone but Tory (or potential Tory) voters? I've become way too wise cynical about the current government in recent years.

    When you've got Tory MPs like Jenkin, IDS and Redwood - plus Telegraph editor - telling the government they need to start doing more to help workers, then we are in truly uncharted territory.

    I’m pretty cynical about the current govt, but I’m with Tubbs on this.
    They found the magic money tree, though afaict they’re not giving anywhere near enough guidance / instruction / help quickly enough for small businesses, and so are increasing the risk of infection.

    This is a new, and scary place. The shutting of schools is shitty but essential, and I hope to goodness that the govt sort out nutrition for those kids who rely on their free school meals. The thought of having all 3 of them home for months (along with MrJt9, who is no working from home forever, and let’s hope he still has a job in a few months’ time....) is, er, a challenge

    Being shut up with people you get on well with is going to be hard enough. I worry about people whose domestic situation is, shall we say, less than ideal. [ i ]
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Yes. One chap in our congregation, Brother R, is cooped up in a tiny flat with his son, d-in-l, and their 3 young children (and another baby due later this year... :flushed: ).

    Brother R relies on church, and the nearby community centre, for relief from family imprisonmentlife, but with church, community centre, and the schools all closed, he is going to find life even harder (as is the whole family, of course).

    It may be possible for us to open up the church each day, so maybe Brother R could become a sort of discreet 'custodian' - it would get him out of the flat, and into a more peaceful environment, at least for a few hours.



  • I am in an at-risk group due to a preexisting respiratory condition. All this banning of social interaction and events is being done to protect me.

    Bear that in mind when I say that I would much rather take my chances with the virus than cancel my entire life for an unspecified amount of time. Some things are more important than the mere perpetuation of biological functions. What’s the point of saving my life if I have to destroy my life to do it?

    Because it's not just your life you're saving, Typhoid Mary. Don't be a fucking Patient 31.
  • In case further proof were needed that we’re living in extraordinary times, Piers Morgan is doing his bit to support NHS staff. https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1240567127561646081
  • Tubbs wrote: »
    Being shut up with people you get on well with is going to be hard enough. I worry about people whose domestic situation is, shall we say, less than ideal.

    I have been SO thankful nothing like this ever happened when I was living with my then husband.
  • I managed to score a 4-pack of bog roll from one of the smaller independent shops away from the high street. My usual Thursday morning Lidl run was ... a bit hatstand, tbh.

    I did take the time to ask the store manager (while we waited for the till to boot back up after it had crashed) how she was. "A bit stressed," she said. Even though she's Polish, she's got the British understatement down to a T.
  • In case further proof were needed that we’re living in extraordinary times, Piers Morgan is doing his bit to support NHS staff. https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1240567127561646081

    We may truly be in The End Times.
  • In which case, please can they End quickly? Pretty please?
    :flushed:
  • Our food shopping now resembles a military campaign. My wife takes the left flank, and scores bread and paracetamol in corner shop. I take the right flank in Waitrose, where there are scampi, and just now found a freshly baked flute! (French bread). Oh, yeah, the angels did smile and beckon to us. Tomorrow it all begins again. Now breakfast cereal has all gone. How f****ing mad are these end times.

    I was in Oxford St earlier, deserted, all the twee little clothes shops closed, with a posse of Hare Krishna people, humming and hawing. It was like a dystopian film, where is Bruce Willis? He's old and knackered.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I'm shopping at the Polish deli* for the duration: I've never seen it so well stocked.

    *which, sadly, has changed its name from Bona Deli - thereby depriving me of the opportunity of going in and saying 'Lovely to vada your eek!'
  • O there's a thought - we have some Polski Skleps locally!

    Mmm...Lithuanian Pea-and-Ham SOUP...
  • jbohnjbohn Shipmate
    Seriously. I've had my best luck of late with the Indian and Korean grocers down the road; I'll have to stop back the Somali one soon as well. The local rednecks avoid those sorts of places... ;-)
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