Fuck this fucking virus with a fucking farm implement.

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Comments

  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    TBH the priest has authority to tell people what they *should* do. Her/is power to exclude them if they decline is less clear. In practice, unless s/he’s on the door until the service begins s/he’s not likely to spot an offender until the service is actually in progress, at which point s/he will need a lot of social confidence to interrupt the service to evict (or cause to be evicted) the offender (even if s/he has the legal power).
  • Curiosity killedCuriosity killed Shipmate
    edited December 2021
    @Leorning Cniht - no, refusenik not wearing a mask was under the previous rules, before the advice was strengthened with the threat from the Omicron mutation. The link is to the rules from 30 November. There hasn't been a Sunday in church since the new rules came in.
  • BroJames wrote: »
    TBH the priest has authority to tell people what they *should* do. Her/is power to exclude them if they decline is less clear. In practice, unless s/he’s on the door until the service begins s/he’s not likely to spot an offender until the service is actually in progress, at which point s/he will need a lot of social confidence to interrupt the service to evict (or cause to be evicted) the offender (even if s/he has the legal power).

    Meanwhile, as @Arethosemyfeet has pointed out, the onus seems to be on the churchwarden(s) to deal with any refusenik(s), in the absence of the priest.
  • BroJames wrote: »
    TBH the priest has authority to tell people what they *should* do. Her/is power to exclude them if they decline is less clear. In practice, unless s/he’s on the door until the service begins s/he’s not likely to spot an offender until the service is actually in progress, at which point s/he will need a lot of social confidence to interrupt the service to evict (or cause to be evicted) the offender (even if s/he has the legal power).

    Meanwhile, as @Arethosemyfeet has pointed out, the onus seems to be on the churchwarden(s) to deal with any refusenik(s), in the absence of the priest.

    It's why they have the aforementioned Big Sticks. They're even (those that I've seen) of sufficient length that should the need arise the wardens can prod the offender out the door from a safe 2m distance.
  • Yes, I think ours are about 2m long, so could easily be used refuseniks for the prodding of.
    :naughty:
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    My friend has been on a ventilator for three weeks. Today he came off it. He is more conscious. He opened his eyes and listened to his wife on the phone.

    🕯🙏
  • Hey, that's great - you must be so relieved. They are talking about giving my mate a tracheotomy, so they can wake him up while still ventilated (without a choking response from a tube down the trachea through the mouth) and then wean him off it and back to breathing for himself - if things continue to be stable. Is that how it worked for your friend?
  • :flushed:

    Ingenious, albeit completely loopy...and it's good that the authorities took a Very Dim View of the man's actions.
  • Oh dear. I do wish the nurse had announced that there was Something Wrong™ with the injection site, and insisted he drop his drawers instead.
  • I’ve just read a Twitter thread by a UCL bioscientist, Francois Balloux, that suggests that unlike previous pandemic variants, the omicron variant is behaving like an endemic infection by part-escaping prior host immunisation, which is what other seasonal endemic respiratory virus’ do. This may be part of the evolution to endemicity.
  • I might be reading that wrong - but it seems backwards. Doesn't something have to escape prior host immunity, in order to become endemic?
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited December 2021
    AIUI, "endemic" simply means that an infection reliably occurs in a particular place (in this case, worldwide), and pops up regularly as a kind of background noise that never really goes away. For example, malaria in parts of Africa and Asia, or TB in Vietnam. As a result of that low-level omnipresence, most people have had brushes with it, and may be partly or wholly immune by adulthood.

    I don't think "endemic" says anything about ability to escape immunity. I mean, chickenpox is endemic here, which is why we vaccinate everybody against it--well, everybody we can get to, and who consents. But there are still sufficient people without immunity that the virus lives on in this area. It doesn't (as far as we know yet) escape the immunity of those who have been vaxxed or previously infected. It simply lives on the reservoir of uninfected people, of which more are born every minute. This is why so many endemic infections seem to have a preference for children. The children are far more likely to have no immunity. It's also why pediatricians do their damndest to vaccinate children as young as they can for whatever bugs are endemic and have had a vaccine developed. The hope is that, if we can get all the little ones early enough, we can make it locally extinct--in which case it will no longer be endemic.
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited December 2021
    Part of the confusion about "escaping immunity" has to do with the evolution of viruses, and the question "Is this the same thing?" When does a virus change enough to be considered a different virus? There's no real bright line we can draw. Is it when we get 10 mutations? 50? 5000? Do we draw the line when the human immune system no longer recognizes it as the same old thing--and if so, what do we do about partial immunity? It's sort of a spectrum thingy.

    I think it's likely that in however-many generations, we will have multiple viruses descended from the original coronavirus nasty that descended upon us in 2019. And if they are sufficiently distinct from one another, we may find ourselves getting reinfected every so often, possibly to a lesser extent as our immune systems get educated about the whole damn virus family. That would be similar to what we have going on with the flu, though I understand COVID is far less mutable (less plastic), which is what gives us a fighting chance to get and deploy vaccines in time. Eventually humanity will look on it as another annoyance and occasionally dangerous infection (esp. to the old and immune-compromised). It may be a shot every year, or maybe not that. We'll see.

  • "Endemic" is relates to "living with the virus", in particular for a long period of time. It will still be a pandemic (at least, as long as it's widely persistent in most of the world), but rather than being in a position of taking drastic steps (the near total lockdowns of Mar 2019) we're going about almost regular lives with the virus as part of the background to our lives. "Living with the virus" will probably mean regular booster shots of vaccine (probably ongoing vaccine development to provide increased immunity to newer variants), it will mean wearing masks in public, more working from home and flexible working to accommodate people taking time off when they get positive tests, changes in how we socialise (more space and ventilation in restaurants, bars, cinemas etc), maybe pre-departure and arrival testing for travel ... small variations on how we lived pre-pandemic, and some short-term pain that will eventually settle out into different ways of doing things (an example would be that reduced capacity in restaurants will almost certainly increase the costs of dining out, but also restaurants will compensate by increasing options for home delivery). "Living with the virus" can't be simply going back to how we lived in 2019 and pretend the virus isn't present.
  • I have had an expected email from an American friend who is in treatment for cancer, saying that with Omicron on the loose her doctors have strongly advised (i.e. told her) to cancel her trip to Scotland which should have started today. She was coming to see her daughter, married and living in Glasgow, graduate M.Litt. And she was going to come and stay with me. Sad for me, but gutted for her. What with cancer and then Covid she hasn’t seen her daughter since her wedding four years ago.
  • DooneDoone Shipmate
    I’m so sorry to hear that, @Cathscats
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    So in England from Tues I think, if you come in contact with covid you have to test (LFT) every day for 7-10 days. No isolation. Will this come in in Wales?
  • COVID has well and truly fucked up our holiday period this year. Mrs Martian tested positive on Christmas Eve, preventing a full family Christmas Day, and I’ve just tested positive preventing a family New Year.

    Fuck sake.
  • My daughter spent last night online chatting to an old flatmate, who was in bits, home alone and just tested positive, extremely concerned that she'd infected her mother who was hospitalised yesterday after spending the Christmas weekend with the symptoms of a really bad cold. She and her sister both tested negative before they went to stay with their mother and stepfather. Sister is still testing negative.
  • That must be awful for her, though it sounds like her mother might have infected her if she was already symptomatic a few days ago.
  • Mother hasn't been testing and is also customer facing, so yes, I suspect mother caught it and passed it on.
  • HeavenlyannieHeavenlyannie Shipmate
    edited December 28
    It seems to me that a lot of younger people acted responsibly and tested before visiting older relatives but it wasn’t always reciprocated, as if the older people couldn’t also be vectors. We tested as a family but I doubt our relatives did, despite them being out and about far more than us.
  • LouiseLouise Epiphanies Host
    We had a terrible struggle getting older family members to take precautions because they were very very attached to doing things normally in ways that put both them and us at risk.

    But in a way it wasn't their fault - I drilled it into my mum not to take health advice off social media but to look at the government site and follow advice but then the governments let us down by being too concerned about the economy and taking political hits if they ordered expensive or unpopular things, so they lagged and hedged in telling people how unsafe it could be to visit indoors, so we got battles trying to make it safe enough to visit.
  • Well, shit.
  • Quite - and here's the latest for the UK (whilst Johnson & Co party on...):
    https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/28/uk-new-record-daily-covid-cases

  • Sister in law is now covid positive. She's a health visitor. :grimace:
  • What a bloody cheek...
    :rage:

    A member of the *government* which took over two hours to decide not to make a decision has the gall to criticise the Welsh government, which did make a decision:

    https://theguardian.com/society/2021/dec/29/sajid-javid-criticises-welsh-government-banning-parkrun
  • As if to underline the idiocy of the English *government*...
    https://theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/29/uk-reports-another-record-rise-in-covid-cases

    Happy New Year, revellers! Enjoy it whilst you can...
  • The Sun front page is a corker, "we can ride the wave", taken from Boris's press conference. With hospitals declaring critical incidents, surely the NHS is being overwhelmed. What Boris is saying is that he can't face down his right wing.
  • A Guardian reader commented that Beloved Leader is suffering from an advanced case of cognitive dissonance - quick, call an ambula.... O...
  • A Guardian reader commented that Beloved Leader is suffering from an advanced case of cognitive dissonance - quick, call an ambula.... O...

    Well the Sun headline illustrates the craven backing for Boris by a lot of media. Well, let's talk turkey, the right wing ones want restrictions abandoned. Let it rip.
  • O indeed - let the bodies pile up never so high, Beloved Leader will still be (as He sees it) King of the Dung-Heap once known as England...

    Still, the more reasoning right-wing Meeja (yes, an oxymoron, but you know what I mean) seem to be turning ever-so-slightly away from His Pifflepaffleness.
  • kingsfoldkingsfold Shipmate
    edited January 5
    @Bishops Finger I keep meaning to ask...

    Are you rhyming paffle with waffle, (so pifflepoffle so to speak), or going for the "a" as in cat or raffish? Enquiring minds and all that...
  • The latter...(as in cat or raffish - most appropriate).
    :wink:
  • A Guardian reader commented that Beloved Leader is suffering from an advanced case of cognitive dissonance - quick, call an ambula.... O...

    Well the Sun headline illustrates the craven backing for Boris by a lot of media. Well, let's talk turkey, the right wing ones want restrictions abandoned. Let it rip.

    You know, I'm not totally convinced they do, at least not all of them. I think a lot of them are just being performatively libertarian in the expectation that the adults in room will stop them. Being the voice yelling "freedom" from the sidelines and losing is much easier than dealing with real consequences. Same deal as His Odiousness' positions on Brexit.
  • We do have a problem with our media - so much of it is owned by very few people, and when you look at the list, it's a little worrying:

    Open Democracy giving Five Reasons Why We Don't Have a Free and Independent Press in the UK ...
  • A Guardian reader commented that Beloved Leader is suffering from an advanced case of cognitive dissonance - quick, call an ambula.... O...

    Well the Sun headline illustrates the craven backing for Boris by a lot of media. Well, let's talk turkey, the right wing ones want restrictions abandoned. Let it rip.

    You know, I'm not totally convinced they do, at least not all of them. I think a lot of them are just being performatively libertarian in the expectation that the adults in room will stop them. Being the voice yelling "freedom" from the sidelines and losing is much easier than dealing with real consequences. Same deal as His Odiousness' positions on Brexit.

    Very good point. Standing at the back, shouting forward.
  • The papers, at any rate, will publish any bloody thing, as long as it rakes in the £££...
    :rage:
  • Cold snap coming. Guess that'll keep the Express going for another month or so.
  • No, no - not *cold snap* - *WORST WINTER IN LIVING MEMORY TO HIT BRITAIN!!!!!!*

    But, as you say...
  • At least it's not a Diana headline.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Cold snap coming. Guess that'll keep the Express going for another month or so.

    It's bloody January - what do they expect?

    Where's that eye-rolling emoji when I need it?
  • Doc Tor wrote: »
    At least it's not a Diana headline.

    Will cold weather at Diana's tomb give swans cancer? (that's more an Express/Mail mashup)
  • No, no - not *cold snap* - *WORST WINTER IN LIVING MEMORY TO HIT BRITAIN!!!!!!*

    But, as you say...

    Oh come on.
    Snowpocalypse. Snomaggedon. Snow death of the Universe!
    You can do better.
  • True, "WORST WINTER IN LIVING MEMORY TO HIT BRITAIN!!!!!!" has far too many words for an Express front page (maybe insufficient exclamation marks).
  • PendragonPendragon Shipmate
    To return to the topic of the thread.

    On Sunday we were informed that the Dragonlets' cousin, who No.s 1 and 2 had been playing with on Thursday morning, needed a test as a friend of his from nursery had tested positive, requiring the cancellation of tea at their house on Monday evening. Just as we were about to take everyone to school and nursery on Tuesday morning, (on time for once!) we had a phone call to say he had tested positive.

    So the older Dragonlets were packed off to get a PCR test at the end of the road in the early afternoon (first available slot that didn't clash with my work meetings). It was quite busy, and although Dragonlet 1 was very good about his test, No. 2 required a lot of cajoling.

    The results finally came back clear this evening, so thankfully they can go to school tomorrow. Trying to work with them bouncing off the walls and wanting to watch the TV all the time is quite hard. It doesn't help I have a sore arm from my booster yesterday and they kept on wanting to sit right next to me and see what I am doing.
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    Yikes. Good luck
  • Fuck this other virus. Dammit Janet, I can not cope with more than one pandemic at a time.
  • No need to start worrying yet, it seems - but maybe we are approaching the End Times...
    :fearful:
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