Fuck this fucking virus with a fucking farm implement.

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Comments

  • As to what Bishop's Finger, Nenya, and a third (whom I've forgotten - apologies), about Nature/Gaia 'clearing the decks', I'm reluctant to impute some sort of intentionality to our planet. That said, I am given to a certain malthusian inclination. It's early days for Covid-19, and there is a lot we don't know yet, but if we cast our mind back to 2003 and SARS, a related virus, certain interesting patterns emerge. The mortality rate for SARS was twice as high amongst those who had had long term exposure to air pollution or had been smokers. There seems to be a correlation between global warming and the spread and the deadliness of such viruses. More broadly, fully 1:6 deaths globally can be traced to the effects of air pollution. None of this a surprise, but it does highlight how our damage to the planet redounds against us.

    The viral video of dolphins cavorting in the canals of Venice gave me wistful hope that when humanity disappears, nature will continue on and flourish despite the damage done by our criminal negligence.
  • edited March 2020
    fineline wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    And FFS, people are forced to stay indoors for prolonged times for all sorts of reasons and they survive.
    Being forced to stay indoors is very different from 100 days without anyone coming to visit, with only seeing people from a distance and talking on the phone or via the internet, trying to find things to keep children entertained (let alone help with their education), etc. People who are forced to stay indoors usually cope (if they do) because they have a regular stream of people coming to visit - health professionals, social services, the minister from their church, family etc.

    Yes, each situation is different. But plenty don't have a network of friends and social support. Some are alone too. I know quite a few people who for various physical/mental health reasons do stay home for long periods with no visitors. And it is of course possible for people die if stuck at home alone - from suicide, or from not taking care of themselves, or having an accident. But most don't die. That is what I mean by survive - not that it's not hard, but that they stay alive through it. They don't get a virus that kills them or gives them disabling respiratory problems for the rest of their lives. And there is an end to this isolation - it is temporary. People come out of it at the end. Realistically, far, far fewer will die from being at home than from coronavirus.
    Aye, there are people who (even without this virus) are housebound for long periods without visitors. But, and this is the point, this state of affairs is universally considered wrong - when these things become public knowledge you get calls from all sorts of people about why social services didn't visit, if there's family then they get vilified for being awful people not looking out for a member of their family, if there were medical issues why weren't health professionals visiting etc.

    And it's not just about surviving, living to breath another day. It's a question of quality of life, and many people will come out of 100+ days of near total isolation with a significantly reduced quality of life - worse mental health, lost a good job because employer has folded, stressed out about finances as they've not been able to pay the rent for months and although the government has said private landlords shouldn't evict people during this emergency they suspect that their home may be at risk if they don't start to make up missed rent very quickly.
  • Hope the symptoms stay mild. Also that everyone is isolating completely for 14 days. As awful as that is.
    I’m an ex-nurse who lectures in health and social care - we’re definitely isolating.
  • There's a lot being written about humans intruding into the animal world, and paying a heavy price. I don't know if there is something in this, but it's interesting. But people have probably always eaten bats.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Galilit wrote: »
    Thanks for the philosophy, statistics, sociology and whatever else from you folks who can afford the time and energy to witter on about the relativity of tragedy, who's really worth saving, etc...
    I'm really glad (NOT) to see you all being able to look at this issue so dispassionately while at the same time praying for my health and well-being on the cancer thread.
    Yes, for some of us, it's intensely personal.
    ...And it's not just about surviving, living to breath another day. It's a question of quality of life, and many people will come out of 100+ days of near total isolation with a significantly reduced quality of life - worse mental health, lost a good job because employer has folded, stressed out about finances as they've not been able to pay the rent for months and although the government has said private landlords shouldn't evict people during this emergency they suspect that their home may be at risk if they don't start to make up missed rent very quickly.
    I am truly sorry for anyone whose quality of life suffers from being confined to quarters. But at least they will still have lives. They will have the opportunity to get counseling, to get new jobs, and rebuild, where necessary.

    A loss of a certain degree of quality of life in someone who is physically healthy is not going to be the largest of concerns for those of us being offhandedly discarded in discussions such as this one. I'm not even to have a choice between dying with the comfort of hospice in familiar surroundings or gasping for breath in agony from COVID-19 in an ICU room - assuming that one can be found.

    "What difference does it make?" some here are asking. It makes an enormous difference to me, and to everyone else in my situation. I suspect that everyone is going to suffer some hardships before this thing runs its course. Don't pretend that all those hardships are going to be equal. And don't pretend that we who are going to bear the biggest burdens of all don't deserve to have a voice in the decision-making.




  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate
    I'd mind a bit if a doctor decided to triage me out - but not as much as I mind these people on the forum discussing precisely my situation as if I wasn't here
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    edited March 2020
    fineline wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    And FFS, people are forced to stay indoors for prolonged times for all sorts of reasons and they survive.
    Being forced to stay indoors is very different from 100 days without anyone coming to visit, with only seeing people from a distance and talking on the phone or via the internet, trying to find things to keep children entertained (let alone help with their education), etc. People who are forced to stay indoors usually cope (if they do) because they have a regular stream of people coming to visit - health professionals, social services, the minister from their church, family etc.

    Yes, each situation is different. But plenty don't have a network of friends and social support. Some are alone too. I know quite a few people who for various physical/mental health reasons do stay home for long periods with no visitors. And it is of course possible for people die if stuck at home alone - from suicide, or from not taking care of themselves, or having an accident. But most don't die. That is what I mean by survive - not that it's not hard, but that they stay alive through it. They don't get a virus that kills them or gives them disabling respiratory problems for the rest of their lives. And there is an end to this isolation - it is temporary. People come out of it at the end. Realistically, far, far fewer will die from being at home than from coronavirus.
    Aye, there are people who (even without this virus) are housebound for long periods without visitors. But, and this is the point, this state of affairs is universally considered wrong - when these things become public knowledge you get calls from all sorts of people about why social services didn't visit, if there's family then they get vilified for being awful people not looking out for a member of their family, if there were medical issues why weren't health professionals visiting etc.

    And it's not just about surviving, living to breath another day. It's a question of quality of life, and many people will come out of 100+ days of near total isolation with a significantly reduced quality of life - worse mental health, lost a good job because employer has folded, stressed out about finances as they've not been able to pay the rent for months and although the government has said private landlords shouldn't evict people during this emergency they suspect that their home may be at risk if they don't start to make up missed rent very quickly.

    I agree it's not just about surviving. I talked about surviving because Marvin said he wouldn't survive. His word, that he used first. But this is a trade off. The effects on mental health if the virus just continues exponentially are likely to be a lot more severe. And of course long term respiratory problems will also reduce quality of life and ability to work. Did you listen to the video I posted, where a consultant in intensive care is talking about it? I think a lot of people simply aren't aware of the severity and impact of this illness.

    I know quite a few Italians on Facebook, who are now in lockdown. It's really strict there, and they aren't enjoying the lockdown, but even so they are all saying to us Brits that we need to take this seriously and implement isolation sooner than they did. They had seen the effects of it getting out of control.

    I'm not saying being isolated in one's home is going to be a bundle of fun. I live alone, have various health problems that can be quite disabling, I don't have much of a support network, and am feeling pretty vulnerable at the moment. But from all I've read on this, and heard from other countries, it is better than the alternative, and we need to do it. I could say 'Sure, my life's not so important - I don't have any dependents, I'm middle aged, so lived quite a few years already, I'm quite dispensable.' But it's not just about me - if I take this attitude and carry on as normal, and then get the virus, I'd likely be hospitalised, and adding more stress to the NHS, who will be inundated with patients. And I'd pass it on to others too, who also would pass it on to others, and so on, and there'd be increasingly more patients, and deaths. And the impact on the mental health of the hospital staff is going to be significant.
  • One of few reasons that allows Italians to get out of their homes is to walk a dog. According to something I've read over the last few days, dogs are being shared and have had enough walks already, thank you so much.

    I suspect @fineline and I are talking about the same interview, where the doctor talks about a time coming when hospitals will be faced with too many sick people and not enough ventilators, and will have to choose to leave people to die. The UK has half the number of ventilators per head than Italy. So our problems are going to be worse than Italy's.

    And the other thing this doctor said was that it is not just older people with health issues, it's everyone, just at lower percentages, but those lower percentages still mean thousands of people at every age.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    I suspect @fineline and I are talking about the same interview, where the doctor talks about a time coming when hospitals will be faced with too many sick people and not enough ventilators, and will have to choose to leave people to die. The UK has half the number of ventilators per head than Italy. So our problems are going to be worse than Italy's.

    I think they must be different. Yours is Dr Al, an A&E consultant, and lasts 30 minutes (I don't think I can access it, as I don't have a TV licence.)

    The one I posted is Dr Jack, an intensive care consultant, and lasts 12 minutes.

    I'm going to post the link again, because it is important.

    Here: Link to Dr Jack

    I think actually listening to hospital staff helps people realise the severity of the situation. My dad wasn't taking it seriously to begin with, and he's the type to laugh at things like this and say everyone is overreacting and being stupid, but my sister is a hospital nurse and has told him what is going on in the hospital she works in, and he is taking it seriously now.
  • MiffyMiffy Shipmate
    No one has yet made an effective antibody test, but antibodies have been isolated - they are working to produce one.

    I do wish they’d get a move on, as I’d like the assurance of knowing whether what I had was, in fact, Covid or not. It followed my usual pattern of aches, temperature, continuous hard cough moving rapidly down into my lungs then weeks coughing up gunk. No sneezing or runny nose at all. It responded to a course of antibiotics...slowly, which makes me wonder if this is characteristic of the virus or not. I’m half listening to a radio phone in atm, and I think I overheard an asthmatic being told that if the virus moves straight down into the lungs, it’s unlikely to be Covid19, although still to be taken seriously as it could indicate complications.

    Not that it matters so much what I’ve had, but if I knew I’d the antibodies, I’d feel freer to volunteer to help out in our community without fear that I might be inadvertently spreading nasties left, right and centre.







  • My mother and a very close friend may be killed by the virus; I will find the level of isolation to come over the next weeks very diffiult and damanging to my mental health. This is a sacrifice I am willing to make to help those around me who are in mortal danger from the virus, but the process of recovery will not be trivial, and is one I would far rather not have. If my mental health were now as it was five years ago, I would be sceptical of recovering at all.
  • Miffy wrote: »
    It responded to a course of antibiotics...slowly, which makes me wonder if this is characteristic of the virus or not.

    It's Corona virus, not Corona bacteria.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Miffy wrote: »
    It responded to a course of antibiotics...slowly, which makes me wonder if this is characteristic of the virus or not.

    It's Corona virus, not Corona bacteria.

    Though viruses can lead to secondary infections, and often it is the secondary infections that lead to many of the deaths. Here is an article (from 2012, looking at different pandemics) that discusses this.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Miffy wrote: »
    It responded to a course of antibiotics...slowly, which makes me wonder if this is characteristic of the virus or not. I’m half listening to a radio phone in atm, and I think I overheard an asthmatic being told that if the virus moves straight down into the lungs, it’s unlikely to be Covid19, although still to be taken seriously as it could indicate complications.

    Well, a virus won’t respond to antibiotics - I think if you’d had covid + bacterial complications it’s unlikely you’d have recovered without hospital care. But basically, we don’t know.
  • MiffyMiffy Shipmate
    Miffy wrote: »
    It responded to a course of antibiotics...slowly, which makes me wonder if this is characteristic of the virus or not. I’m half listening to a radio phone in atm, and I think I overheard an asthmatic being told that if the virus moves straight down into the lungs, it’s unlikely to be Covid19, although still to be taken seriously as it could indicate complications.

    Well, a virus won’t respond to antibiotics - I think if you’d had covid + bacterial complications it’s unlikely you’d have recovered without hospital care. But basically, we don’t know.

    Yes, I know that. I’ve had pneumonia and bronchitis several times in the past and do seem to have a tendency to lung infections, so caution required regardless. But yes, we don’t know, as I didn’t meet all the criteria for testing.

  • fineline wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    And FFS, people are forced to stay indoors for prolonged times for all sorts of reasons and they survive.
    Being forced to stay indoors is very different from 100 days without anyone coming to visit, with only seeing people from a distance and talking on the phone or via the internet, trying to find things to keep children entertained (let alone help with their education), etc. People who are forced to stay indoors usually cope (if they do) because they have a regular stream of people coming to visit - health professionals, social services, the minister from their church, family etc.

    Yes, each situation is different. But plenty don't have a network of friends and social support. Some are alone too. I know quite a few people who for various physical/mental health reasons do stay home for long periods with no visitors. And it is of course possible for people die if stuck at home alone - from suicide, or from not taking care of themselves, or having an accident. But most don't die. That is what I mean by survive - not that it's not hard, but that they stay alive through it. They don't get a virus that kills them or gives them disabling respiratory problems for the rest of their lives. And there is an end to this isolation - it is temporary. People come out of it at the end. Realistically, far, far fewer will die from being at home than from coronavirus.
    Aye, there are people who (even without this virus) are housebound for long periods without visitors. But, and this is the point, this state of affairs is universally considered wrong - when these things become public knowledge you get calls from all sorts of people about why social services didn't visit, if there's family then they get vilified for being awful people not looking out for a member of their family, if there were medical issues why weren't health professionals visiting etc.

    And it's not just about surviving, living to breath another day. It's a question of quality of life, and many people will come out of 100+ days of near total isolation with a significantly reduced quality of life - worse mental health, lost a good job because employer has folded, stressed out about finances as they've not been able to pay the rent for months and although the government has said private landlords shouldn't evict people during this emergency they suspect that their home may be at risk if they don't start to make up missed rent very quickly.

    I agree it's not just about surviving. I talked about surviving because Marvin said he wouldn't survive. His word, that he used first. But this is a trade off. The effects on mental health if the virus just continues exponentially are likely to be a lot more severe. And of course long term respiratory problems will also reduce quality of life and ability to work. Did you listen to the video I posted, where a consultant in intensive care is talking about it? I think a lot of people simply aren't aware of the severity and impact of this illness.

    ...

    And the impact on the mental health of the hospital staff is going to be significant.
    I've read a lot of stuff, I process words in front of me and usually struggle with video or audio as a means of presenting information ... give me a transcript of an interview over a video any day. I've said before here that there will be people who survive the virus, but with long term health impacts. Who are also victims of the virus, the stats on the impact of the virus when this has all passed will need to include them as well as those who died. And, it will also need to include those who die indirectly because of the pandemic, including those who develop mental health impacts. And, at present, I'm not seeing very much coming out of the government that even acknowledges that there will be mental health effects from isolation or among hospital staff making difficult decisions and working through an even more stressful environment than normal, much less anything about how that mental health impact is going to be addressed.

  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    @Alan Cresswell - Thing is, realistically, if the government focuses on negative mental health aspects of staying in, many people will become even more anxious and/or less likely to comply. Personally, I think in a difficult situation, far better to focus on ways you can make the best of it. Which is why I started the thread on things to do when stuck at home. Of course it's going to be bloody hard - we all know that - but there are always ways to find good things, moments of joy and hope and such.

    I'm not saying this in a pollyanna-ish way - simply, for me, this has always been the way to survive and keep going, in all sorts of very hard situations. If I were to approach this in an 'I'm not going to survive four weeks isolation' mindset, I would very quickly get incredibly depressed. I'm trying to approach it practically - anticipating what will be hard and what I can do to deal with that, and to find ways of finding some enjoyment in it too. I'm not expecting the government to help with any mental health issues I might suffer - it never has. But I do think if people come together and work together, albeit digitally rather than face to face, we can help and encourage each other a bit.

    I personally think it's incredibly important to value each other's lives, and that this supports mental wellbeing far more than grumbling that certain people's lives aren't so important and they should be left to die. That sort of attitude completely undermines your supposed concern for people's mental health.

    By the way, I also struggle a lot with auditory processing, and prefer written transcripts. But also, for myself, I have real life human interaction (when not in isolation) and I have spoken conversations, and if I focus, and only one person is speaking, and for not too long, I can generally understand people. If I listen to a youtube video, if I give it my full attention, not doing anything else, I can generally understand it, if the speaking is clear. I don't know if that is the case for you, but this doctor speaks slowly and clearly, with expression, in an RP English accent, and I found him okay to understand.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    A loss of a certain degree of quality of life in someone who is physically healthy is not going to be the largest of concerns for those of us being offhandedly discarded in discussions such as this one. . . . "What difference does it make?" some here are asking. It makes an enormous difference to me.

    Rossweisse, I've been searching for words but can come up with none, nor would any suffice, I don't think. Just know that you are precious not only to us here on the Ship, but to God and to the Communion of Saints. You make an enormous difference to us.
  • I know we're in Hell, but what Miss Amanda said.
    {{Rossweisse}}
  • Twilight wrote: »
    I vote we release Marvin. I can't take it anymore.

    Question: For those of us, like my son and I, who think we might have low grade Covid-19. Will it show up if we ever get tested and will it mean we are immune and can go out and be useful?

    IMHO eventually somebody in power will realize that a test for antibodies would allow us to let some of the raving loonies (that'll be us) out of home and back into the work force, possibly with an identifying badge of some sort so it's less abusable. Which would in turn aid in the recovery of, well, everything, and allow those still stuck inside to be free of the recovered loonies. This of course depends on coronavirus being the kind of thing one gets an immunity to--which I think likely.

    Really, I think that's the only way we'll be able to tolerate each other after a couple months. If we can release steam from the pressure cooker of confinement (in the form of people who are recovered), well, every little bit helps. And the extreme loonies who haven't yet caught the virus could be offered the opportunity to do so and take their chances ON TH E UNDERSTANDING that nobody's saving them a ventilator if they choose to self-infect, just to get out of the house.
  • fineline wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    And FFS, people are forced to stay indoors for prolonged times for all sorts of reasons and they survive.
    Being forced to stay indoors is very different from 100 days without anyone coming to visit, with only seeing people from a distance and talking on the phone or via the internet, trying to find things to keep children entertained (let alone help with their education), etc. People who are forced to stay indoors usually cope (if they do) because they have a regular stream of people coming to visit - health professionals, social services, the minister from their church, family etc.

    Yes, each situation is different. But plenty don't have a network of friends and social support. Some are alone too. I know quite a few people who for various physical/mental health reasons do stay home for long periods with no visitors. And it is of course possible for people die if stuck at home alone - from suicide, or from not taking care of themselves, or having an accident. But most don't die. That is what I mean by survive - not that it's not hard, but that they stay alive through it. They don't get a virus that kills them or gives them disabling respiratory problems for the rest of their lives. And there is an end to this isolation - it is temporary. People come out of it at the end. Realistically, far, far fewer will die from being at home than from coronavirus.
    Aye, there are people who (even without this virus) are housebound for long periods without visitors. But, and this is the point, this state of affairs is universally considered wrong - when these things become public knowledge you get calls from all sorts of people about why social services didn't visit, if there's family then they get vilified for being awful people not looking out for a member of their family, if there were medical issues why weren't health professionals visiting etc.

    And it's not just about surviving, living to breath another day. It's a question of quality of life, and many people will come out of 100+ days of near total isolation with a significantly reduced quality of life - worse mental health, lost a good job because employer has folded, stressed out about finances as they've not been able to pay the rent for months and although the government has said private landlords shouldn't evict people during this emergency they suspect that their home may be at risk if they don't start to make up missed rent very quickly.

    Yes, this is totally true. But what are you suggesting as an alternative then--that we just throw the doors wide open and let the virus rip? Because that will most CERTAINLY cause "a state of affairs ... universally considered wrong"--a huge swathe of deaths, oodles of orphans to be cared for, yoinks of healthcare workers with lifelong PTSD from being forced to watch--or worse, CHOOSE--people to die, because of the insufficient facilities resulting from a spike of infections all at the same time. If there will be suicides among the homebound, there will certainly be suicides among the health care workers. Nobody's setting the "shelter in place" policies with the desire to be abusive, or to make anybody's life unlivable. It's that they see no other option--except the Hieronymous Bosch version of Hell.
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    Nobody's setting the "shelter in place" policies with the desire to be abusive, or to make anybody's life unlivable. It's that they see no other option--
    There's start with a health service with enough spare capacity that it won't be completely overwhelmed with lesser distancing measures and able to administer comprehensive testing to make containment possible. Which is an I wouldn't start from here if I were you, admittedly, though it's worth pointing out that we needn't have started from here.

  • Dafyd wrote: »
    Nobody's setting the "shelter in place" policies with the desire to be abusive, or to make anybody's life unlivable. It's that they see no other option--
    There's start with a health service with enough spare capacity that it won't be completely overwhelmed with lesser distancing measures and able to administer comprehensive testing to make containment possible. Which is an I wouldn't start from here if I were you, admittedly, though it's worth pointing out that we needn't have started from here.

    And first place in the "yeah a little late for that isn't it" category....
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Thank you, Miss @Amanda B Reckondwyth, @Bishops Finger, @fineline, @Lamb Chopped, and others, for your helpful posts. To those who won't even engage with @Galilit and me, thanks a lot.
  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Don't worry, Ross! With their cognitive dissonance they'll still be assiduous readers of the cancer thread ...
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    Thank you, Miss @Amanda B Reckondwyth, @Bishops Finger, @fineline, @Lamb Chopped, and others, for your helpful posts. To those who won't even engage with @Galilit and me, thanks a lot.

    I think many of us looking in here are wondering whether you could start some sort of breeding programme for orneries, fast.
  • Dafyd wrote: »
    Nobody's setting the "shelter in place" policies with the desire to be abusive, or to make anybody's life unlivable. It's that they see no other option--
    There's start with a health service with enough spare capacity that it won't be completely overwhelmed with lesser distancing measures and able to administer comprehensive testing to make containment possible. Which is an I wouldn't start from here if I were you, admittedly, though it's worth pointing out that we needn't have started from here.
    Well, we're in a "wouldn't start from here" situation. Ideally there's already be facilities in place to cope with at least a small increase in need - when the NHS fails to cope with reasonably predictable seasonal 'flu every year it's been obvious that the Tory government has been failing us, likewise when people needing help with mental health help have to wait ages for an assessment and then get minimal treatment, or elderly needing more care unable to access suitable nursing home facilities or get help coming into their homes.

    But, we need to be taking some steps to help people. The government has prioritised getting ventilators and retro-fitting hospital facilities to provide ICU capacity, and probably quite right. That has involved moving people around the health service to put those best able to provide ICU care in places where they're needed, and fill what they'd have otherwise be doing with other staff (including re-recruiting retired staff and drafting in those students who would have been finishing their courses in the next couple of months). I'd like to see a similar effort in mental health - including making sure that those with the relevant skills aren't re-assigned within the health service to take them away from helping people with mental health issues. I'd like to see the NHS 24 pages include advice on how to limit the mental health impacts of isolation, and information on how to talk to someone if you need help (everything within the Covid-19 sections deal with direct symptoms of the disease and what self-isolation entails, not even a hint that there might be mental health impacts that you need to consider, no advice on how to keep active when you can't leave home etc). At work, our health and welfare group has made sure we all know how to contact the assistance service that the university pays for if staff need such services - we need an equivalent service for the general population as part of the NHS, and for everyone to know how to access that, with enough people on the phones that you don't end up spending days waiting for an answer. Even the government giving a decent grant to the Samaritans and other existing organisations to help them adapt to the circumstances to maintain their services.
  • NenyaNenya Shipmate
    Thank you for that link, fineline. As a family we've been taking it pretty seriously - working at home, mostly only going out for groceries, but I did see a friend for coffee in her house on Friday (sitting at opposite ends of her lounge) and that link brought it home to me that "pretty seriously" and "mostly only" are not enough.

    Ross, Galilit, others in your situation, if anything I've said or not said has added to your feelings of anger and isolation and desperation I am more sorry than I can say. You are immeasurably precious and I for one will be holding in my heart your positive and indomitable examples for the weeks that lie ahead.
  • CameronCameron Shipmate
    I can’t believe how fast the numbers in the US are rising - I suppose it’s partly because of the lack of testing. 26747 cases reported this morning, and over 300 deaths.

    Two states in the US already have more deaths, per capita, than we do in the UK. New York State is home to 4 times as many people as Scotland, but it has had 10 times as many deaths.

    At the current rates, the US will have overtaken Italy by the middle of the coming week and will have the most cases in the world by next Sunday.

    I am highlighting these comparisons to agree with @Lamb Chopped - amongst others - about the dire need for the shelter in place measures. Please take care, US friends. If your state has restrictions they are obviously absolutely necessary. If your state doesn’t have restrictions and lock downs, it may be that they should have but they are coming soon anyway - If I was you, I would try to start acting as if the measures were already in place.

    Lord have mercy.

  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    Thanks Cameron. Yes, considering how scarce the testing is in the U.S. we probably have passed Italy already.

    I just read an article that said doctors who are working with lots of Covid-19 patients are seeing three common factors in their seriously ill patients; obesity, diabetes 2, and high blood pressure.

  • @Alan Cresswell

    Planning is happening.

    There is initial advice on maintaining mental well-being in isolation.

    When you’d say you can’t find this information - where are you looking ?
  • edited March 2020
    Before my post I checked the NHS24 site, following the big banner at the top for Covid-19 advice, just to make sure things hadn't changed in the last few days.
    NHS Inform "Stay at Home Advice"

    I won't deny there's advice there, I've seen the BBC Breakfast on keeping fit and excercise (for example). It's just not readily available along with the NHS advice on other aspects of the virus.
  • I was using the NHS main site (re mental well-being advice) rather than NHS Scotland. (Googled for the planning advice.)
  • It can hardly be emphasized enough that if the NHS is a) to cope and b) survive we have to isolate as much as possible. The mental health effects on those vulnerable to the challenge of isolation are to be taken seriously; however, that would need to be seen as yet another immense pressure on a service which is probably already going to go through it's own version of workday hell any day soon - if the Italy model is anything to go by. Ironically, the priority is to protect the healers and the service they provide. And if we don't take isolation seriously we're not doing that. To say nothing of the health professionals who might lose their lives in this crisis.
  • Yes, my point is that this advice shouldn't require relevant Google-fu to find. It should be there up front without needing to navigate through several pages of the NHS24 websites (and, in Scotland that defaults to the Scotland site) along with the rest of the advice that you would immediately go to.
  • I agree
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    IMHO eventually somebody in power will realize that a test for antibodies would allow us to let some of the raving loonies (that'll be us) out of home and back into the work force, possibly with an identifying badge of some sort so it's less abusable. Which would in turn aid in the recovery of, well, everything, and allow those still stuck inside to be free of the recovered loonies. This of course depends on coronavirus being the kind of thing one gets an immunity to--which I think likely.

    It's bloody well got nothing to do with "somebody in power". It's not a question of a decision, it's a question of scientists figuring out how to do it.

    You can't just snap your fingers and say "I'd like an antibody test" and some concierge says "yes of course" and sidles back up to you in half an hour with an antibody test on a plate.

    And a test that isn't accurate is worse than no test at all.

  • UK government is now claiming to have ordered “millions” of antibody tests they expect to get in the next few weeks.

    So, if no rapid “clarification” is issued - that might be good newsish.
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    Again, my view from a place where lockdown is established: I haven't changed my mind about how much it sucks not being able to go outside. However, funny thing is, in some ways I think it makes you feel unusually connected. We all know this is part of a massive collective effort to save as many lives as possible, and it's only going to work if everyone follows the rules. Also, I think most of us have considerably increased the amount of time we spend on the phone to our nearest and dearest of late.
  • UK government is now claiming to have ordered “millions” of antibody tests they expect to get in the next few weeks.

    So, if no rapid “clarification” is issued - that might be good newsish.
    Yes, they announced in a briefing a couple of days ago that a UK company was working on a quick antibody test and they hoped to have kits soon. This new announcement is presumably confirmation of their availability.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate

    As usual, I find xkcd to be on point here. Including the alt-text.
  • It was a suggestion to those who were worried about their mental health that they could take part in a study, should they want.

    (Me, I've been self-isolating and stuck indoors the majority of the time for the best part of two years, so there's nothing new here. And when I asked for mental health support to deal with the aftermath of an assault I was given a card for the local MIND service to book my own appointment, which I would have to not only travel to, but also pay for - which came lower priority than bills and food - so thanks, but no thanks.)
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host, 8th Day Host
    Thanks for that link, Ck. I just filled in the survey.
  • Me too.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    Thank you, Miss @Amanda B Reckondwyth, @Bishops Finger, @fineline, @Lamb Chopped, and others, for your helpful posts. To those who won't even engage with @Galilit and me, thanks a lot.

    I think many of us looking in here are wondering whether you could start some sort of breeding programme for orneries, fast.
    What a good idea!
    Nenya wrote: »
    ...Ross, Galilit, others in your situation, if anything I've said or not said has added to your feelings of anger and isolation and desperation I am more sorry than I can say. You are immeasurably precious and I for one will be holding in my heart your positive and indomitable examples for the weeks that lie ahead.
    Oh, no, Nenya, you are not a part of the problem. The problem is people who think that their concerns about social isolation are more important than the agonizing deaths of others.


  • Dafyd wrote: »
    Nobody's setting the "shelter in place" policies with the desire to be abusive, or to make anybody's life unlivable. It's that they see no other option--
    There's start with a health service with enough spare capacity that it won't be completely overwhelmed with lesser distancing measures and able to administer comprehensive testing to make containment possible. Which is an I wouldn't start from here if I were you, admittedly, though it's worth pointing out that we needn't have started from here.

    Have you got a time machine?
  • orfeo wrote: »
    IMHO eventually somebody in power will realize that a test for antibodies would allow us to let some of the raving loonies (that'll be us) out of home and back into the work force, possibly with an identifying badge of some sort so it's less abusable. Which would in turn aid in the recovery of, well, everything, and allow those still stuck inside to be free of the recovered loonies. This of course depends on coronavirus being the kind of thing one gets an immunity to--which I think likely.

    It's bloody well got nothing to do with "somebody in power". It's not a question of a decision, it's a question of scientists figuring out how to do it.

    You can't just snap your fingers and say "I'd like an antibody test" and some concierge says "yes of course" and sidles back up to you in half an hour with an antibody test on a plate.

    And a test that isn't accurate is worse than no test at all.

    Duh duh DUH. My point (which I was attempting to be delicate about, which is a fucking waste of time in Hell) is that A Certain Orange Person in the White House oh scratch that, we know he's useless Some Person with the Nous to Slide Round the OPWH will eventually (hopefully already, but I'm not holding my breath) find a way to slip some money and manpower support to the scientists who actually have a fucking chance of coming up with an accurate, usable test, IN SPITE OF the OPWH who is lying his usual lies and causing his usual obstructions, because we all know that sciencing with actual money, manpower and equipment is easier than sciencing WITHOUT any of the above, and it is MOST UNFORTUNATELY going to require some senior person in power to free up the money, manpower and equipment so that the scientists can do their fucking work without being expected to produce miracles in an unfurnished basement. Do you get my point now????
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    Dafyd wrote: »
    Which is an I wouldn't start from here if I were you, admittedly, though it's worth pointing out that we needn't have started from here.
    Have you got a time machine?
    I'm supposing that thinking about how one will hold the right people responsible if one gets through this may have a therapeutic effect. Worth a try at any rate.

  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    OOOOooooohhh (rubs hands)

    We could have a virtual war crimes trial. 'Scuse me, crimes against humanity.
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