Fuck this fucking virus with a fucking farm implement.

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  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    orfeo wrote: »
    IMHO eventually somebody in power will realize that a test for antibodies would allow us to let some of the raving loonies (that'll be us) out of home and back into the work force, possibly with an identifying badge of some sort so it's less abusable. Which would in turn aid in the recovery of, well, everything, and allow those still stuck inside to be free of the recovered loonies. This of course depends on coronavirus being the kind of thing one gets an immunity to--which I think likely.

    It's bloody well got nothing to do with "somebody in power". It's not a question of a decision, it's a question of scientists figuring out how to do it.

    You can't just snap your fingers and say "I'd like an antibody test" and some concierge says "yes of course" and sidles back up to you in half an hour with an antibody test on a plate.

    And a test that isn't accurate is worse than no test at all.

    Duh duh DUH. My point (which I was attempting to be delicate about, which is a fucking waste of time in Hell) is that A Certain Orange Person in the White House oh scratch that, we know he's useless Some Person with the Nous to Slide Round the OPWH will eventually (hopefully already, but I'm not holding my breath) find a way to slip some money and manpower support to the scientists who actually have a fucking chance of coming up with an accurate, usable test, IN SPITE OF the OPWH who is lying his usual lies and causing his usual obstructions, because we all know that sciencing with actual money, manpower and equipment is easier than sciencing WITHOUT any of the above, and it is MOST UNFORTUNATELY going to require some senior person in power to free up the money, manpower and equipment so that the scientists can do their fucking work without being expected to produce miracles in an unfurnished basement. Do you get my point now????
    Fortunately it seems covid-19 antibody test development doesn't require WH coordination. Lots of groups are working on it - for example, one at Mount Sinai:
    A new recipe could offer labs an alternative to waiting for or buying commercial tests. Florian Krammer, a virologist at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, and his colleagues posted a preprint yesterday describing a SARS-CoV-2 antibody test they have developed, and directions for replicating it. It’s one of the first such detailed protocols to be widely distributed, and the procedure is simple enough, he says, that other labs could easily scale it up “to screen a few thousand people a day,” and quickly amass more data on the accuracy and specificity of the test. Together with increased availability of commercial tests, that means some important answers about immunity to COVID-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus, may be available soon, he says.
    [...]
    Krammer says he and his colleagues are already using their test in their New York City hospital to better understand how quickly COVID-19 patients start to develop antibodies to the virus. In the future, it could also help identify recovered patients who could then donate their SARS-CoV-2 antibody-rich serum to help treat critically ill patients. Another key application, Krammer says, would be to identify people who have developed likely immunity to the virus. They might be able to treat patients safely or take on other front-line jobs during the pandemic.
  • That's awesome, and may it be, and all speed to their elbows!
  • Program on how and why to self-isolate is on channel 4 at the moment, just started. Could be helpful.
  • RooK wrote: »

    Thank you for both. I was howling at the second.
  • orfeoorfeo Ship-mate

    I know it's UK only, but my first thought is how I would muck up the results by being in the "here we go again" category for lockdown.

    December/January - stay in the house because breathing the air is dangerous.

    March/April - stay in the house because being around other people is dangerous.

    I suppose it will be interesting to see whether the second scenario is psychologically better or worse than the first.
  • anoesisanoesis Shipmate
    orfeo wrote: »
    I know it's UK only, but my first thought is how I would muck up the results by being [Australian].
    ^^Fixed that for ya :wink: When I see an Australian panicking, then I'll conclude it's the end of the world.

    Meanwhile, I despair of my own countrymen. After having stressed in every single press conference of the last several days that supermarkets and pharmacies will remain open no matter what, our Prime Minister today upped the alert level (to one below the maximum lockdown) and everyone immediately went completely fucking nuts, despite having had the opportunity to watch I don't know how many other countries do it wrong! I was out when the announcement was made, posting a birthday present to my niece, on the basis that by the coming weekend I would likely be unable to visit her, as she lives in a different town - walked by the supermarket and it was total pandemonium, lines out the door, shit like I haven't seen since trying to shop in a London Sainsbury's on Christmas Eve fifteen years ago. Apparently it doesn't matter how hard you beat some people with the old clue stick, things won't sink in. Tomorrow is my usual weekly grocery shopping day, but I don't know that I'll bother. I suspect there won't be anything there.
  • orfeoorfeo Ship-mate
    anoesis wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    I know it's UK only, but my first thought is how I would muck up the results by being [Australian].
    ^^Fixed that for ya :wink: When I see an Australian panicking, then I'll conclude it's the end of the world.

    Hmm. The world ended on 29th January.

    That might explain a lot.

  • @mousethief Loved that second video! Thank you!
  • Thanks for that. It was interesting to reflect that my bipolar anxiety is currently quite stable despite currently having probable corona virus and self isolating (possibly because I get most stressed by the unknown). If I had filled that survey in 6-8 weeks ago, when news was coming in of the virus, my anxiety levels would be recorded as way higher. I had been reading and interpreting the information coming online about the virus quite early on as I teach public health to health carers, and I had to withdraw from the internet as it was affecting my mental health; my anxiety levels were at the highest for years. Though, as I now point out to my husband, my fears about the severity of the health crisis were actually correct.
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    Man. I now know one person who is hospitalised (in Switzerland, FWIW), and four others who are suspected. Suspected because France is short of tests so they're only using them for the sickest people. Anyone else with the symptoms is told to assume they have it, stay at home taking paracetomol, and call for an ambulance if they develop breathing difficulties. One of them is my 73 year-old mother-in-law, not in the best health, and living with my father-in-law, 74 and in even less good health.

    Believe me, it's not staying indoors all the time that's messing with my mental health the most at the minute.
  • Last week I spent 80 mins listening to recorded messages from Sainsbury's when I tried to inform them I was at risk. Today I've spent 20 minutes trying to ring them, and can't even get as far as the on hold list!
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    And yet my place of work is still saying to WFH only if self-isolating, or by arrangement if you've got dependents. It should have been WFH if at all possible for a week now. They Don't Get It.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Middle management mumble mumble B Ark mumble mumble unsanitised telephone.
  • orfeoorfeo Ship-mate
    The next person who shares a half-arsed and completely misleading comparison of cases in Italy and cases in Australia is going to get a poke in the eye with a sharp stick just as soon as close proximity is allowed again.

    Fuck me but the inability of people to critically assess what they see on social media has never been more terrifying.
  • CameronCameron Shipmate
    Last week I spent 80 mins listening to recorded messages from Sainsbury's when I tried to inform them I was at risk. Today I've spent 20 minutes trying to ring them, and can't even get as far as the on hold list!

    If you have a twitter account, try tweeting at them - start your tweet with @Sainsburys
    Be sure to be (and I am sorry) vividly explicit about just how bad your situation is. There may be someone monitoring twitter who will get back to you - because PR.

    There is also a government support registration page for the highly vulnerable, although I am not sure if it is fully operational yet.

    But to be honest, your best bet is to contact people in your parish and ask for their help - by picking up shopping for you and leaving it on the doorstep (via their kid(s) if they are also shut in). I know it’s beyond frustrating to have to do that, but to be honest it would probably do the helper a world of psychological good. Many folks are getting to the point of “give me an occupation, or I shall run mad” - you would help them a lot by asking for help, while the online log-jam clears over the next week or so.

  • MrsBeakyMrsBeaky Shipmate
    Last week I spent 80 mins listening to recorded messages from Sainsbury's when I tried to inform them I was at risk. Today I've spent 20 minutes trying to ring them, and can't even get as far as the on hold list!

    The same thing is happening today with Little Beaky's mother trying to get through to them. She has tried calling them 87 times so far.
    This is bloody ridiculous!
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    They are coping with a level of demand that they would usually plan for weeks or months in advance at the same time as they are experiencing a high level of staff absence due to sickness or self-isolation.
  • You know, it occurs to me that even out of the cess pit that is the parliamentary conservative party we've got one of the worst possible turds floating on the top right now. This is the sort of occasion where May's reactionary authoritarianism would actually be preferable to Johnson's laissez-faire, don't give a shit attitude.
  • I hate to be pedantic, but how can a turd give a shit, when it has already been shat?

    IYSWIM.
  • You know, it occurs to me that even out of the cess pit that is the parliamentary conservative party we've got one of the worst possible turds floating on the top right now. This is the sort of occasion where May's reactionary authoritarianism would actually be preferable to Johnson's laissez-faire, don't give a shit attitude.

    I think Boris is scary, because he wants to be liked.
  • Lots of people quoting Boris's erstwhile statement about liking the local mayor in the film Jaws, as he kept the beaches open.
  • I hate to be pedantic, but how can a turd give a shit, when it has already been shat?

    IYSWIM.

    Ah but that's the point, isn't it? ABdPJ is pathologically incapable of giving a shit.
  • O well - I suppose it wasn't him buying up all the loo rolls, then...
  • Many offices are finding their systems can't cope with the entire workforce working from home.
  • O well - I suppose it wasn't him buying up all the loo rolls, then...

    Nope. Mouthwash, on the other hand...
  • We all need Brain Bleach, but I couldn't find any of that today, either...
  • On the subject of This Bloody Virus: can folk stop sharing bullshit on Facebook about the dangers of petrol stations and other unverified rumours? Seriously, I don't care if a nurse is saying it. Unless it's an anecdote about their personal experience they're no wiser than the rest of us. If there is a major and specific risk associated with petrol pump handles it will be announced through official channels. Just STFU and stop getting people jumping at shadows. Sanitise your hands before and after using the petrol pump, sure. But do the same when you touch the shop door too, because that's probably had 10 times as many people touch it as the pump.
  • Most of my local petrol stations have automatic doors, but you make a good point. Both my local Co-Ops have them, too. Good.

    I try to nudge open non-automatic doors with my (clothed) elbow, but it's not so easy to do that in the reverse direction!

    BTW, our local petrol emporia also stock a wide range of groceries - I haven't been to any lately, but I wonder if they're also suffering from the Lunatic Pillagers?
  • The gas/petrol stations here, about 75% of them are pay at the pump. You fill up on your own after using a card. The employee I spoke to was carrying industrial paper towels (the brown scratchy ones) and a spray bottle. He was preparing to spray the pump after I finished with bleach water, with enough methyl alcohol to keep it from freezing (we still get to -10° to -20°C overnights.
  • Pay-at-the-pump seems to be mostly confined here to the petrol stations at supermarkets, as they (the stations) only sell petrol (or diesel), so I suppose that, yes, there is risk of infection from handling the pumps, and going into the shop to pay...
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Contactless FTW.
  • Does that mean the same as "tap to pay"?
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Contactless FTW.

  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Yes.
  • Yeahbut hereabouts there’s a £30 limit - perhaps they should lift that somewhat.
  • CameronCameron Shipmate
    Yeahbut hereabouts there’s a £30 limit - perhaps they should lift that somewhat.

    If you set up a card on your phone through ApplePay / GooglePay (or whatever they are called), then there is no £30 limit; but you could be asked to enter the pin on the keypad for (much) higher value transactions, which would negate the contactless point at some unclear higher limit.


  • Many offices are finding their systems can't cope with the entire workforce working from home.

    There’s part of me that really hopes the entire economy goes to hell within a week or two so that the scales of judgement will tip and it will be better overall to lift the restrictions and let people go back to living their lives.
  • CameronCameron Shipmate
    Many offices are finding their systems can't cope with the entire workforce working from home.

    There’s part of me that really hopes the entire economy goes to hell within a week or two so that the scales of judgement will tip and it will be better overall to lift the restrictions and let people go back to living their lives.

    Not everyone would be able to go back to living their lives.

    The scales are tipping the other way.

  • Living their life = breathing their last

    This is literally happening. What we've done is too little, too late, but it will at least save some who would have otherwise died. The scales are such that there are half a million deaths on one side, and twenty thousand on the other, and they're not going to tip back any time soon. I'm not diminishing the mental health aspect of this one jot, but you're coming across as a whiny, entitled teenager rather than someone in crisis.

    And if you are in crisis, for fuck's sake get some professional help. The restrictions allow for medical trips.
  • Marvin, the economy is not going to go back to normal anytime soon, no matter what we do. I can't find the original tweet to link to it, but someone on Twitter pointed out that if we go out and start spreading the virus, many more people will get sick sooner and be unable to work, and the economy will grind to a halt anyway.

    Plus a lot more of the people who do necessary things like nursing and maintaining the electrical grid and the water treatment plants and the supply chain will get sick, because we will infect them. We DO NOT WANT those people to get sick.

    If we follow your "get the economy going again" advice, the economy will still be shit and also a whole lot more people will be dead. Please just stay home. There's nothing we can do to make it better besides stay home. The time for prevention is long past, thanks to our idiot politicians (I mean in the UK and US specifically). Give them a call and ask why they completely failed to prepare for a foreseeable disaster.
  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Middle management mumble mumble B Ark mumble mumble unsanitised telephone.

    The prophetic voice of Douglas Adams.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Many offices are finding their systems can't cope with the entire workforce working from home.

    There’s part of me that really hopes the entire economy goes to hell within a week or two so that the scales of judgement will tip and it will be better overall to lift the restrictions and let people go back to living their lives.
    Gee, Marvin, I'd never figured you for a Trumpista.

    How many millions are you proposing to allow to suffer horrible deaths so that you and your pals can "live (your) lives"?

  • I hate to be pedantic, but how can a turd give a shit, when it has already been shat?

    IYSWIM.

    Fission?
  • Marvin, is that just despair talking? Because if so, I can understand that. I'm having some rather nasty reactions to being shut in for so long already, and it's been just a couple days.

    Thing is, you want to go back to the way it used to be a little while ago--and there is nothing and no path back to that. It doesn't exist anymore. The tsunami has begun and there is nothing to do but rescue as much as we can from it. Going down to the beach with my umbrella isn't going to hold the big wave off, for me or anybody else.

    It sucks. Massively. But the damage is done already, and not by those who were trying to save human lives. Since we must go through it,* let us go through it with as much grace as we can muster (and screaming into pillows when we can't).

    * Also applies to being in labor
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    edited March 2020
    Handy infographic.

    Not sure what logic Marv seems to think is going to happen. "Oh, my, the economy is collapsing because people are worried about dying. THEREFORE, we should let them flollop around and die more readily because then they'll worry less."?!?!

    Surely even a teeny little Martian brain can grok that the restrictions on movement is to temper the effect of the pandemic - including economic effects. The more the infection rate overwhelms the hospitals, the panic will be exponentially worse. And with it the socio-economic effects. Look up "flatten the curve", idiot.
  • I love the word grok.

  • Plus a lot more of the people who do necessary things like nursing and maintaining the electrical grid and the water treatment plants and the supply chain will get sick, because we will infect them. We DO NOT WANT those people to get sick.

    And then those people come home and spread it to (thinking of one, ordinary family I know) the baby who was born pre-term and doesn’t have a fabulous immune system, and the parents and in-laws with hypertension and diabetes.

    Dead people aren’t brilliant for the economy,
  • RooK wrote: »
    Not sure what logic Marv seems to think is going to happen. "Oh, my, the economy is collapsing because people are worried about dying.

    The evidence from last weekend is fairly clearly that most people aren’t worried about dying one little bit. If they weren’t forced to stay home then they wouldn’t.

    .

    I know all the arguments. And yes, LC, this is mostly the despair talking. I can see these restrictions stretching out to months, years in the future because nobody has an exit plan, there’s no way to free us all without the disease starting up again. Vaccines are 18 months away at best. Some articles are even saying that some of these restrictions may have to be permanent.

    There’s no reassurance. No rational cause for hope. It’s just me, my family and these four walls forever, or a painful choking death (remember that I’m in an at-risk group, so if I get this thing I may well die of it). Is it any wonder I’m about ready to burst?

    And I still maintain that there are worse things than death. Even a lot of deaths. Even my death. Effectively putting the whole population under house arrest is a legitimate candidate for that category.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    But lots of people view death as being a lot worse than a temporary lockdown and if you get to force your contrary opinion on them it's for ever.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    And I still maintain that there are worse things than death. Even a lot of deaths. Even my death. Effectively putting the whole population under house arrest is a legitimate candidate for that category.

    Well if I can get all preachy for a minute, where there's life there's hope.

    One of my prison chaplain mantras to inmates, including inmates in isolation for months, is that no matter how dire our circumstances, we can always find room to express freedom in some way. The latest example I chose was Paul and Silas in chains, naked and whipped, in the Philippian jail. If Christianity is true than that ability to find a measure of freedom ought to be, too. We're just putting it to the test a bit more than most of us have been used to.

    Not saying this is easy...
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