Sheffield Cathedral Choir: Moving forward or a desecration?
balaam
Shipmate
According to yesterday's Grauniad, Sheffield Cathedral have disbanded their choir and mean to start again in mid-August.
Opening up the choir to boys not from private schools to me looks like a positive move, I'm all for moves that open up music to all. Broadening the repertoire is another move I approve of. The cathedral chapter have made it clear that the Anglican choral tradition will still be at the centre of what the choir does. My interpretation is that if you go to to choral evensong you will still get choral evensong.
The cathedral's own take on events is here.
Given that the Grauniad is not the place to go to for traditional views, what do you think about this?
Opening up the choir to boys not from private schools to me looks like a positive move, I'm all for moves that open up music to all. Broadening the repertoire is another move I approve of. The cathedral chapter have made it clear that the Anglican choral tradition will still be at the centre of what the choir does. My interpretation is that if you go to to choral evensong you will still get choral evensong.
The cathedral's own take on events is here.
Given that the Grauniad is not the place to go to for traditional views, what do you think about this?
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If they're taking down something that's working and has a genuine following in the speculative hope that maybe doing something different could increase their attendance then I think they may be doing something very foolish. No one can be all things to all people, though perhaps large Cathedral churches are increasingly feeling the pressure to do this.
But I don't really know what's happening at Sheffield. Is their choral tradition increasingly disconnected from their actual attendance? Do they have an elite choir that singing mostly to an empty church? If so, then they may well need a re-think, much as it pains me to say so.
It should be elitist, in exactly the same way that a top football club's youth training program is elitist.
Or by "elitist" do they really mean "our choir sings Tallis and Palestrina, and we don't think normal people like that"?
Based on long experience of Anglican churches making mistakes that have destroyed good music programs, I think there is a valid concern that TPTB don't really know what they're doing and may end up with a much diminished music programme rather than the still-excellent-but-more-diverse programme they are promising.
The Guardian article says (including private schools) not (exclusively private schools). And of course they should include private schools - private schools are part of the community.
If you told me that the choir drew exclusively from schools with choral programmes, and that those schools were the private schools and some of the leafier state schools, I wouldn't be all that surprised.
Which is one of those statements that sounds good, but could mean almost anything in practice.
But I tend to think that Cathedral music should be elitist - it should draw the best musicians, and be the best it possibly can be. A cathedral isn't a big parish church, and I think its liturgy and music should reflect that.
It's this kind of thing that makes me worry they may have decided to deep-six their existing programme in some kind of vague hope of getting people to come to church who have never actually shown any interest in coming to church (or at least, to the Cathedral), ever. Or the current PTB just don't like traditional English church music very much and are looking for an excuse to get rid of it.
Though I think even a Cathedral needs to be responsive to its congregation. I've sung in Anglican churches that have handled this very well, within their means, usually with two services and two choirs. Ideally you'd think that a Cathedral with a strong existing music program would want to add to it rather than replacing it. But I assume that running the existing program is already a full-time job for one or more people, so adding to it would cost money which perhaps Sheffield doesn't have.
1) There was an interesting thread on Facebook (which I saw because a friend had contributed to it) that seemed to suggest that there were problems with the management of the choir. Unfortunately (from my point of view) the thread has been taken down so I know no more
2) The mechanics of this reorganization seem very similar to those used in the York Minster bellringers affair a few years back - the cathedral authorities announcing an immediate closing of the doors, and then restarting from scratch, rather than working with the existing lay people involved to move forward.
For the avoidance of doubt, I have no idea what the issues are at Sheffield, and in particular no reason to think that they are the same as they were at York.
Just sayin'...YMMV.
The whole question of music provision at Cathedrals and larger Quires And Places Where They Sing (BCP) in the post-lockdown era is an interesting and challenging one, and there will be many and various opinions as to how such Places should proceed!
I don't think there would be many posts on the Ship if everyone waited until they had full information!
The only mitigaton is that there may well be frantic (and possibly inaccurate) discussions taking place on social media.
Gareth Malone perhaps?
More pertinently perhaps, one might want to ask if it is possible to retain that tradition without loss of quality yet also diversify into - yes - Gareth Malone/Only Men Aloud type music, gospel choir or whatever. I do remember going to a music study day arranged by the URC some years ago. The guest speaker was the Director of Music at another English Cathedral, who amazed us by speaking of the breadth of music they were embracing, albeit on different occasions and with different sets of musicians who understood the various genres.
Whichever way it goes I see abundant cock-up potential all around.
Broadly speaking, we may well be seeing a phenomenon where (a) fewer people are interested in classical church music, (b) fewer people are going to church, and (c) just for good measure, the people who are interested in classical church music are increasingly not the people who are going to church. I don't think this is a good thing, but it may be our (Anglican) present reality in many places.
If you want to do everything well this gets expensive though - I doubt very much that Gareth Malone comes cheap. There's also the risk of trying to be all things to all people and not really making anyone happy. My read of the Cathedral's statement is that they feel a need to be representative of the broader community, which is an understandable position for a Cathedral church to take. But query whether that comes at the cost of alienating your actual (and realistic potential) regular attenders. It may or may not, depending on what your actual and realistic potential congregation looks like.
I am wondering if ultimately the future of Tallis and Byrd and choral evensong is not in the cathedrals but in some parish churches that are large enough to support this kind of thing without having to accommodate the politics inherent in being a Cathedral church.
Just what is happening?
All my instincts are with the Dean and creating a new choir. But it may not work and so Sheffield may end up without a choir at all. Is that a risk worth taking? Probably...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/24/sheffield-cathedral-to-investigate-bullying-and-harassment-claims
Hmm. Is the matter sub judice now, perhaps?
Widow's mites will not fill the foodbanks or fund the Homeless projects such as the Sheffield Cathedral Archer project.
If everyone gave the proportion she gave.....
Also it’s not what you give that you should count but what you retain.
And various other sermonic lessons.
And isn't there a saying 'Mony a mickle maks a muckle'? This being interpreted as something like 'Many little things add up to a big thing'.
Dear me - the lack of understanding Our Blessed Lord had to put up with in His day is still with us 2000+ years later. The Pharisees are alive and well...
Back to the Cathedral - I really don't see why Quires and Places Where They Sing shouldn't review and revise the way they work from time to time, given different circumstances that crop up. Perhaps in this case - and we certainly DON'T know all the background - it's the manner in which it's being done, rather than the fact of the matter, that may be causing concern.
Not unless someone has been charged in a court and been remitted for trial, no. I don't understand why there should be any reason not to discuss the decision to disband the choir, which has been made public, and offer our views on whether it is for good or ill.
I take the point that whatever's going on hasn't gone to court, and that there is quite a lot of stuff (pro and con) in the public domain already.
If we err, and stray from our ways like lost sheep, then a Host will be along to gently correct us, no doubt.
and the point of my statement is that the Cathedrals cannot survive on Widows mites even if they existed in 21st century Britain.
Nice big stashes of £££ are good to have, too, of course.
Or is that not the crucial issue at Sheffield?
If a widow donated all her income to the church I feel sure it would have made the news.
How would "the news", or even the church, necessarily know?
The Dean said on the radio the other day, when asked whether it was diversity of membership or diversity of repertoire they trying to broaden, that the choir never sang enough Tudor music, and that they ought to sing all of it, and more Purcell.
That's it, from the horse's mouth - he could have said they wanted to get more kids from the inner city from different racial backgrounds singing in the choir, or something like that, but no - he summarily dismissed the choir because he wants them to sing a wider repertoire
I can only think that, if he's of sound mind, there must be something else going on, and that the public statements issued by Dean and Chapter are at best obfuscation.
Her friendsand relatives would realise that even though she was getting her pension every week, she had nothing at all to buy food etc.
Oh, we're watching
I repeat.
All is not well there.
From the cathedral website it would seem that the "Dean and Chapter" consists of precisely TWO people. There are also some "Assistant Clergy" (all from the Church Army).
Other cathedrals seem to have got round the lack of clergy members of the Chapter by appointing Lay Canons who are actively involved in the work of the cathedral.
The Church Commissioners fund only a Dean and two residentiary canons at most cathedrals. Additional canons (lay or clerical) need to be unpaid locally funded and Sheffield as a diocese has been notoriously cash-strapped for several years now.
According to Wikipedia there are vacancies for a Precentor and two canons.