Scotch & Wry - the Scottish thread 2021

PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
With acknowledgement to the late, great Rikki Fulton for the thread title, I hope everyone had as good a New Year as possible under the circumstances and you're all now fully recovered.

Happy new year, and have at it!
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Comments

  • By complete co-incidence, I was ferreting around in Rikki Fulton's family history yesterday. My late father-in-law claimed to be related in some way to Rikki Fulton, so I was trying to find a link, with no success.

    Probably just as well. I have spent decades on my own family tree, and unearthed little of interest (unless you find agricultural labourers and kirk session admonitions for fornication interesting).

    I have barely started the North East Man's family history, and already it's proving more interesting than mine. I would have grudged him a link to Rikki Fulton.
  • A Happy 2021 to all!

    My mother used to call me to wish me a Happy Hogmanay. (She descended of nothing but Scots.) I rather miss that. And the shortbread and sherry.

    CBC R1 has a current affairs programme, As It Happens, and a past cohost, Alan Maitland (dead now 20 years), used to read a story about Hogmanay in a family that immigrated to Canada, but the father moved back to Scotland. Does this sound at all familiar? Sadly they haven't broadcast it in years, but they still broadcast "Fireside Al's" reading of Frederick Forsythe's The Shepherd just before Christmas.
  • Funnily enough, I was looking at some Dundee/Fife valuation rolls over the weekend and thinking "I must sort these out!". My biggest issue is that my old FH program went west - the company ended the software, I think they were a tiny firm and the Director retired. So I bought Family Historian and shipped the data across - but I've never actually had the time to sit down and use it, so I have no idea how the thing works. Oh, and until our local IT firm gets the parts, I'm having to plug my laptop into the TV to use it as the screen has gone mammaries skyward. So a bit of a drag all round.

    Hang on, NEQ, you have a family axe murderer! That's hardly dull!

    We had a long chat with a newish neighbour yesterday who was, I think desperate for a distraction from the task in hand, which rapidly became a comparing of notes with the Knotweed on degrees of Scottishness, for even my sais neg lug'oles could hear that they shared an international freemasonry. Further on in the conversation said neighbour became the first person I've ever heard in the flesh say "Jings!" - I've heard Nicky Campbell say it on the radio, but never quite sure if he's taking the michael.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    The correct expression is, of course, Jings, Crivens and help ma Bob. :mrgreen:
  • I have an axe-murderer, the man who shot the largest otter ever shot in Lochaber, somebody who went to prison for stealing nails, and the writer Lorna Moon!

    I drew up my first family tree in primary school, so I'm approaching five decades of family history. It's been slim pickings!

    I have barely scratched the surface with the North East Man's family history and have already discovered that Donald McLean (Cambridge Five spy) was his third cousin twice removed.
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    Jings from Jesu Domine ! Crivvens from Christe domine !
    No idea where 'help ma Boab !' comes from, apart from the pages dedicated to Oor Wullie in The Sunday Post.
    Happy New Year to all with thanks to Piglet for reminder of Jings,Crivvens,Help ma Boab !
  • Happy (?) New Lockdown, according to news from the Grauniad, reporting on First Minister Sturgeon's speech.

    A sensible measure, no doubt, and equally without doubt to be followed by the *English* government - in a fortnight's time...
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Indeed, but some of us will still have to go to w*rk!

    In fairness, I was rather touched when the subject of furloughs and being "essential" came up in the office, and one of the midwives assured me I was. :blush:
  • Yes, what a kind and positive thing to have said!
    :wink:

    I see from reports of FM Nicola's speech at Holyrood that places of worship will be closed from Friday. Maybe they'll be allowed to open for private prayer?
  • kingsfoldkingsfold Shipmate
    I see from reports of FM Nicola's speech at Holyrood that places of worship will be closed from Friday. Maybe they'll be allowed to open for private prayer?

    Why should they? Quite aside from the fact that they weren't last time, the rules is to stay at home. (unless care duties, food shopping, exercise, going to work if you're essential blah blah).

    I can't see any way in which a church being open for private prayer, which in this neck of the woods also means it needs to be staffed, is essential. A comfort perhaps, but there are plenty other things which would also be a comfort which aren't permitted. If you're going to lockdown to reduce as far as possible any mingling, you have to do it properly.

    Quite aside from the pretty obvious fact that you can pray anywhere - you don't have to be in church. It might help or be easier, but it's hardly essential....
  • kingsfoldkingsfold Shipmate
    Weirdly, FWIW, I think I'm relieved we're going back into full lockdown.
  • There's less uncertainty, I suppose.
    :grimace:

    You're right about the churches, I agree, and it sounds as if they'll only be allowed to open for the *rites of passage* (within strict guidelines).
  • CathscatsCathscats Shipmate
    Yes, just off now to take the last prayer service for a while, since I have cancelled those scheduled for later in the week, (it makes no sense of the stay at home order if we are out at church). Sunday worship has been recorded (audio) for almost 10 months now, and the midweek prayer service will now go to Zoom as a bit of an experiment. It will allow us to have communion, which I don’t think works well with a recording, especially audio.

    I have also posted on the community Facebook reminding people of the helpline number, so I had better make sure I keep my mobile phone on, as it goes to an app there!
  • We're still in tier three so in principle our services could continue, but we may be given alternative orders by 121.
  • CathscatsCathscats Shipmate
    No, the official email has arrived and you are fine to continue as you were.
  • kingsfoldkingsfold Shipmate
    I see Margaret Ferrier has been arrested after her COVID-filled travels back in September. In connection with "alleged culpable and reckless conduct". :mask:

    Sounds like a fair description to me
  • Yikes...... a sorry state of affairs.
  • So how come Dom Cummings isn't in jail yet?
    :confused:
  • kingsfoldkingsfold Shipmate
    Police Scotland & devolved legal system?
  • Cathscats wrote: »
    No, the official email has arrived and you are fine to continue as you were.

    Thanks. I got an update from our interim moderator last night.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    So how come Dom Cummings isn't in jail yet?
    :confused:

    Exactly! 😡
  • Well, as @kingsfold said - Police Scotland, and a devolved legal system.
  • I don't think his eyesight was so bad that he crossed the border into Scotland in his jaunt from London to see his mummy in Durham, and subsequent day out at Barnard Castle. The question is why the police in Durham and London didn't press charges.
  • Perhaps he and his car were under an Invisibility Cloak.
  • Well, he does look as though he might be a Klingon whose head has been surgically sandpapered...
    :naughty:
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    In other news, well done to Nicola for telling Lord Dampnut that no, playing golf to work off his toddler tantrum during Mr. Biden's inauguration ceremony does not count as "essential travel" and consequently he can't come to Scotland to do it.

    :naughty: :mrgreen: :naughty:
  • Ooh - I bet she enjoyed telling him!
    :mrgreen:
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    I certainly would have in her position - wouldn't you? :mrgreen:
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited January 5
    Indeed.

    I've just seen the video clip, and she's not actually telling him in person - though (for some reason) she seems to be finding it hard to repress a grin...
  • I was SO pleased to see this.
  • bassobasso Shipmate
    I have an axe-murderer, the man who shot the largest otter ever shot in Lochaber, somebody who went to prison for stealing nails, and the writer Lorna Moon!

    I've got a forger in colonial Connecticut. He was sentenced to 'have his ears clipt' and to stand in the pillory. He bought his way out by paying a substantial fine. No commentary on where he came up with the money to pay the fine. That part felt very contemporary!

    I've also got one who was hanged as a witch in Salem.



  • My known ancestors are all farm labourers, fruit pickers, non-conformist ministers and other assorted ordinary folk. The birth and death dates for their kids make depressing reading, especially when you notice they have two kids called John, which seems odd until you realise the birth year of one is the death year of the other.
  • I seem to have an inordinate number of Scottish ministers in one branch of my family (including a father, son, and grandson who were ministers at the same church over the course of a 100+ years). Not surprisingly my great grandmother from that branch said enough was enough and became an atheist (which in the 1880s was a bit unusual). Then there was the one who was an unsuccessful privateer (and a somewhat more successful merchant).
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    I understand there were sheep-stealers on one side of my family and possibly a pirate on the other.

    Oh, and maybe the odd Viking ...
  • Many odd Vikings in Orkney....
  • A propos of conversation above, last night I started rounding up some of the stuff that's been kicking about for centuries into Family Historian. It's actually quite easy when you find the right box, certainly less fussy than TMG was.

    I was loading up various details of Mum's "cousin who's still on Ben Nevis" - see below, aside from the fact that I think he's actually a first cousin once removed - and I was struck by the last line of the memorial (sorry, it's right at the bottom, but we've all got a whole lockdown to read the sorry tale in!). I think this might have been discussed on a previous Scottish thread...

    https://heavywhalley.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/a-sad-tale-of-the-sandeman-memorial-at-kintail/

    I know the Scottish memorial tradition is different to the English (well, the south, at least!), but I'm a bit startled by the precision of his age. I've only done the math in my head, but I have a feeling that that makes him a pre-marriage conception (wedding June 1939), and I'm not sure that his birth would be on Scotland's People yet - my family history-fu is so broken that I can't actually find where it says what years are covered! Annoyingly as an only child, the trail goes dead with him - there's just his mother's death to find.

    And I'm still sat on a beanbag in front of the tele as the fixie-uppie chap hasn't surfaced with the parts for my screen yet. I'm hoping he's an essential business...

  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Shipmate
    edited January 6
    @Sandemaniac John Dudley Sandeman is indexed on Scotlandspeople as a 1940 registration, although the actual certificate won't be online until 2040.

    His ref no. shows that he was the 637th birth recorded in Haymarket in 1940, so he doesn't look like a December 1939 birth registered in 1940, nor even a Jan 1940 birth.
  • CathscatsCathscats Shipmate
    Yes, and how incredibly sad for the family having both father and son die within days.
  • Thanks, NEQ, I had a feeling it was 100 years, but just couldn't see it anywhere.

    I can't remember where I discussed it online before - I have a feeling I might even have got in touch with someone who'd been on the search team - but I do remember someone saying that they got really quite angry reading it, because you just don't let anyone fall behind in those conditions.

    One day when we can go to Parts North again we'll head NW instead of going up the Great Glen, and sit with him and have a wee dram. It'll be very wee as one of us will be driving, but I hope he'd appreciate it.
  • @Sandemaniac I ran a few common surnames through Scotlandspeople for Haymarket 1940, and the highest registration number I found was 1018, so 637 looks like a late summer registration.

    I've only done the math in my head

    Playing on Scotlandspeople is MUCH more fun than doing sums on paper, but once I'd finished playing, I did the sums and think he was a mid 1940 birth.

    I've been swithering about writing up something known as "The Bennachie Mystery" which seems not to have been researched properly up to now. In 1914 an almost- two year old went missing from his home at the foot of Bennachie and his remains were found years later near the top of Bennachie, outwith the area which had been searched. He would have had to wade through chest-high heather to get to where he was found. Initially there was speculation that he had been carried off by an eagle, and the inquest seems to have treated it as a choice between eagle and misadventure.

    But I have plenty of stuff which I have already researched waiting to be written up, rather than needing a new project.
  • Thanks, NEQ, I think you are right. I should have taken the other sock off!

    I know *exactly* what you mean about other projects...
  • I'm supposed to be indexing, but as soon as I saw your post, I was on Scotlandspeople faster than a ferret down a rabbithole.
  • I was loading up various details of Mum's "cousin who's still on Ben Nevis" - see below, aside from the fact that I think he's actually a first cousin once removed - and I was struck by the last line of the memorial (sorry, it's right at the bottom, but we've all got a whole lockdown to read the sorry tale in!). I think this might have been discussed on a previous Scottish thread...

    https://heavywhalley.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/a-sad-tale-of-the-sandeman-memorial-at-kintail/

    What a terribly sad story, for all concerned.
  • I'm saying nothing.... except that I know that feeling too, I was rummaging round the intertubes for him last night for five times longer than I spent entering the certificates!
  • <tangent> One of the times I completely lost it in public was seeing a scout leader allowing one of his charges lag behind. I have no idea how I did it but my companions were really embarrassed and I remain unrepentant. We were walking and hostelling in the Lake District one Easter in snowy conditions. Crossing a knee-deep snowfield, we caught up and passed part of this group with the intention of veering off in a different direction, and I, probably looking no older than the scouts, tiny, at the time an untreated asthmatic, cold and exercise triggered, ran* to find the leader and berate him about how dangerous it was not having a tail-ender making sure everyone was keeping up, and how had he not noticed this lad so far behind. We met them later and the kid was keeping up packless, accompanied by two other scouts who were using the straps to carry his pack between them.

    * I suspect I involved the two lads I was with by dropping my pack to be able to run. </tangent>
  • I can't remember where I discussed it online before - I have a feeling I might even have got in touch with someone who'd been on the search team - but I do remember someone saying that they got really quite angry reading it, because you just don't let anyone fall behind in those conditions.
    Yes, my days with open air clubs at university and other large walking groups, the practice was to always (regardless of conditions, but especially in poor conditions) have one of the most experienced in the group at the back (with map and compass etc). To make sure no one got left behind, to help anyone struggling and to be able to keep everyone on route if the leaders aren't visible - preferably someone with a loud voice to let the leaders know if there are people straggling.

    But, even when things are done properly accidents happen and people go astray.

    I remember many years back a friend and I were backpacking in the Highlands, had left Kinlochleven and having had a good day on the tops were dropping down to the top of Glen Nevis upstream of Steall. It was getting dark and we'd put on our head lamps as we headed down stream to find a spot to pitch tent, and there were two people coming the other way who veered off and crossed the river to head straight towards us. Two scouts who had got separated from their troop, no map between them and they knew they were camping "by the waterfall" but no other information. We knew there was no where upstream of us to camp (at least, not that side of the watershed) and Steall fitted the description - in which case these two had been going the wrong way. We shared out our Mars bars and took them down to Steall expecting to find the rest of the Scouts (we did) but if necessary we'd have walked them all the way down to the youth hostel.

  • @Shubenacadie has asked me a question over in Purgatory’s Come Forth thread.

    Help!
    I have no idea.

    But maybe folks here can help?
    (( thank you so much))

  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    I've just posted a reply on that thread: my late brother-in-law would have referred to a jam sandwich as a "jeely piece".
  • Whereas the poet and artist Edward Lear, in his epic piece The Quangle-Wangle's Hat has the Quangle-Wangle remark *Jam, and Jelly, [my italics] and Bread are the best of food for me.*

    Now, Lear was a Londoner by birth, and it is therefore clear that Jam and Jelly are two distinct and different foodstuffs, as far as that part of England is concerned. Both may indeed contain fruit, but the consistency will vary. Jam is runny - Jelly is not.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    I think in all other circumstances my b-i-l would have referred to the product for which Wilkins of Tiptree is best known as "jam" - as in what you'd put on a scone either before or after the cream* - but when put between two slices of bread, it was a "jeely piece".

    "Jelly" was the wobbly stuff they serve at children's parties.

    * depending on where you come from
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