Is This a Crusade I See before Me?

I question whether @undead_rat's threads Prophecy of the Popes, The Shroud of Turin, and Yeshu ben Pantera, don't constitute crusading as per the ship's 8th Commandment. There is no give-and-take, just constant hammering on the assertion of the OP and repetition of the same arguments and sources.

Comments

  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Perhaps we need a new discussion category for threads of this ilk. Hobby Horse Board, anyone? I confess to being modestly intrigued by the Shroud and the assorted alleged anomalies attaching to it, but repeating these over and over does nothing for this reader. Would our time and energy be better spent lobbying Somebody (who, though?) for a new investigation?
  • DardaDarda Shipmate
    We now have a fourth thread: Global Nuclear War
  • It occurred to me also that undead_rat might be crusading, but for what purpose? Certainly not for intelligent discussion (for which the Ship is, of course, famous :wink: ).

    He reminds me of one of those sad ranters, standing on a street corner, shouting out to all and sundry that they are all Going To Hell Unless They Repent This Minute...
    :disappointed:
  • Ohher wrote: »
    Perhaps we need a new discussion category for threads of this ilk. Hobby Horse Board, anyone? I confess to being modestly intrigued by the Shroud and the assorted alleged anomalies attaching to it, but repeating these over and over does nothing for this reader. Would our time and energy be better spent lobbying Somebody (who, though?) for a new investigation?

    "Lobbying Somebody" — is that like Prayers of the Faithful?
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    All his threads are on different subjects, so he's not crusading on one topic. It's not traditional crusading...
  • True, I suppose.

    Ranting and hectoring?
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Ohher wrote: »
    Perhaps we need a new discussion category for threads of this ilk. Hobby Horse Board, anyone?

    That's an idea, though how would a thread be designated for that category? There likely aren't many posters who consciously think that they're on a crusade: almost everyone think we're engaged in open-minded discussion. So you'd see few, if any, threads placed there by the posters themselves.

    You'd probably need the mods to rule that, say, a particular thread in Purgatory is just crusading, and then so dispatch it. Though then you get into the subjective question about what's crusading, versus what's just firmly holding your own position in a debate.

    But a Crusade forum could be a lot of fun, with crusade-related puns and allusions: Off to Jerusalem, with you!"
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    True, I suppose.

    Ranting and hectoring?

    For undead_rat, and I really don't mean this as a personal attack, but I think his issue is more crankery, ie. his topics sorta seem like they should have been discussed on In Search Of... in the 1970s.

    But again, subjectivity. One of the things I've always appreciated about the Ship is that you can discuss religion, including the supernatural aspects thereof, without automatically getting laughed at. So if the Resurrection is considered respectable discussion, why not papal ESP?
  • orfeoorfeo Ship-mate
    NicoleMR wrote: »
    All his threads are on different subjects, so he's not crusading on one topic. It's not traditional crusading...

    Well I'm not entirely certain they are all on different subjects. There has certainly been ample cross-fertilisation. For example, nuclear war came up on at least one of the previous threads and I think 2 of them.
  • orfeo wrote: »
    NicoleMR wrote: »
    All his threads are on different subjects, so he's not crusading on one topic. It's not traditional crusading...

    Well I'm not entirely certain they are all on different subjects. There has certainly been ample cross-fertilisation. For example, nuclear war came up on at least one of the previous threads and I think 2 of them.
    Yes. Prophecy and the end of the world are common themes, even in the Shroud of Turin thread.

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    There's a common theme - him as the interpreter of prophecy. Hence the shroud as the "Sign of Jonah". He's telling us what he knows it all means.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    And none of them really falls into Dead Horses territory.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Gee D wrote: »
    And none of them really falls into Dead Horses territory.

    No; more like Horses Wandered From the Beaten Track.
  • Maybe we need a virtual speaker’s corner, a la Hyde Park.
  • The usual response at this point is to requote the evergreen advice, "Get a blog."
  • Honestly it is not uncommon for Shipmates to have hobby horses. "God the Killer" springs to mind (sorry Martin). It may be tedious, especially for the hosts, but it doesn't seem to be derailing other threads or deeply offensive at the moment.
  • Another one. I saw the title, and I knew who had started it.

    As per usual, an OP that is dense and impenetrable. I gave up on this one. It is looking more and more like a crusade.

    And I see just 1 post on any other thread.

    Offensive? Maybe not. Can I just ignore these drivelly threads? Yes. But it is still reducing the level of discussion, it seems.
  • SC--

    If "And I see just 1 post on any other thread" refers to undead_rat's posts, they did some on the "Shroud of Turin" thread about a past boating adventure. That's the first one. Fun to read.
  • MiffyMiffy Shipmate
    Maybe we need a virtual speaker’s corner, a la Hyde Park.

    Dear God, no!

    🤨

  • Golden Key wrote: »
    SC--

    If "And I see just 1 post on any other thread" refers to undead_rat's posts, they did some on the "Shroud of Turin" thread about a past boating adventure. That's the first one. Fun to read.

    That would be on the zombie rodents own thread again.

    Every time. Crusader for lost causes. No - not lost. Discarded. Hidden. Left to rot and die.
  • SC--

    Yes, on their own thread. But talking and interacting about something other than prophecies and relics.

    FYI: Your second paragraph? That kind of stuff attracts lots of people. They find it fascinating, intriguing, challenging, adventurous, noble, important, etc.

    Not necessarily undead_rat's particular emphases. But the Ark of the Covenant (Indiana Jones, anyone?), the Grail (also IJ), Templars, Noah's Ark, Mary Magdalene, Solomon's Temple, ancient manuscripts, Joan of Arc and her voices, the Lemba tribe of Africa (they'd long claimed to be Jewish and kept many customs, and it turns out they have the genetic marker of the priestly line), Opal Whitely, and on and on.

    My difficulties with undead_rat's threads and posts are about the style of discussion and the way the issues are addressed.

    FWIW.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    Well, the crusade I see is that un_dead rat believes that we are in the End Times because of some scriptural and extra-scriptural items that to his eyes are evidence. When I asked him why it was so important to him to share his insights, he said that he thought it was important for people to know what was going on in the world and why. I don't really see it as discussion but harmless if a bit of a waste of bandwidth. He doesn't seem to get very rude or agitated when people don't agree with him which often happens with crusaders.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    edited February 12
    The topics are proper to Purgatory since they allow for serious discussion. When they become circular there are always two options. A Host may close the thread on the grounds that the discussion has ceased to be serious. Or Shipmates who see the repetitive nature of the discussion can simply scroll past and ignore the repetition. None of us is compelled to add to the circularity.

    As to whether a Shipmate is or is not a crusader under the terms of the 10Cs that is ultimately a matter for Admin since it is about a demonstrable pattern of behaviour. Crusading is of course most disruptive when it spills over from confined threads into others. The crusader finds every opportunity to bring their obsessions into discussions which have only fleeting and at best indirect connections.

    Personally I am patient about such labelling, allowing scope for the effectiveness of Shipmates' arguments to poke necessary holes in such crusading arguments. Minds can be changed or modified.

    But I've noted the comments and will certainly take them into account in my monitoring of posts.
  • Ray SunshineRay Sunshine Shipmate
    edited February 12
    I encountered undead_rat every now and again in a previous incarnation, at Catholic Answers Forums (CAF), which closed down at the end of last year. It was exactly the same. The Turin Shroud is authentic because it's authentic because it's authentic. Nevertheless, the threads were always pretty interesting, because they attracted a number of knowledgable posters who raised them to a level of genuine discussion. Those posts evidently fell on deaf ears as far as undead_rat himself was concerned, but the rest of us could read and learn from them with pleasure.

    For that reason, I would suggest letting him carry on as is. The rest of us can post on his threads, if we want to, secure in the knowledge that he won't listen to a word we're saying, but a discussion is still a discussion for all that.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited February 12
    Thanks @Barnabas62.

    As I may have said earlier, ISTM that undead_rat is ranting and hectoring, rather than crusading, but it is annoying to find that he constantly sidesteps questions as to what he personally wants to discuss about the subject, and what we ought to do with the *information* (I use the term loosely) he chucks unsparingly at us...

    As others have remarked, the subjects themselves are interesting, if rather arcane, and certainly suitable for discussion...that being the operative word!
  • @Barnabas62 has it about right. Crusading is (mostly, but not always) at its worst when the crusader derails other threads with their pet hobby horse, and thankfully, we don't have the evidence of that here. Admin are aware of the situation and continue to keep a watching brief, aided as always by our eagle-eyed hosts.

    @Ray Sunshine also makes a perfectly valid point that no matter what the OP's beliefs, a thread can be genuinely interesting and insightful if shipmates make it so.
  • Doc Tor wrote: »
    @Barnabas62 has it about right. Crusading is (mostly, but not always) at its worst when the crusader derails other threads with their pet hobby horse, and thankfully, we don't have the evidence of that here.

    Let me just add to my previous post that derailing other people's threads is something undead_rat never did, ever, at CAF. He got suspended there, at least once, but only because of the same thing he's doing here, never for anything that I would regard as an unforgivable sin.
  • Is what he did, or did not do, on another forum *admissible evidence*? I sort of wish you'd not told us that...
  • No, we make judgements on whether people transgress our Commandments by what they post here. Conduct elsewhere, even where the common identity is fairly certain, is not a basis for any decision we make here.

    Quite a few regulars here have had run ins elsewhere, even been banned, and made considerable contributions to discussions here. I think we have some hosts and former hosts who got themselves banned elsewhere for simply disagreeing with the majority views of people there.
  • Thanks @Alan Cresswell - I thought that was probably the case.
  • Although his behaviour elsewhere cannot be taken into account in Hosting here, it can at least give people here the encouraging thought that it's not just us, he's like this everywhere.
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