Psychology is pseudo science

Insanely humbleInsanely humble Shipmate
edited February 21 in Purgatory
This may not be the ideal opening post but I there is a potentially good discussion from the topic.
I like psychology. Guys like Freud and especially Jung are very interesting. The unconscious is a fascinating subject. Jung on archetypes and introversion/ extroversion to name a few.
But is psychology taken seriously by "real" scientists?
Then there is connect between psychology and religion. I find this overlap intriguing. Can we over psychologise Jesus? The Bible...and so on.
I've chatted to people on the net who because of their mental illness had to do deal with mental health experts all the time. Many are fed up. Especially with the medication they are forced to take. It must be hard to be in their situation. I might be turned off psychology and experts in the field if I were them.
But is psychology a psuedo science?
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Comments

  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited February 21
    Interesting that you name Freud and Jung as among your favs, because, if there is any faction within psychology that falls short of the usual standards of science, it would be psychoanalysis.

    Which is not to say I dislike psychoanalysis, though I think as therapy, it probably just amounts to a more systemized version of "talking things over". To be sure, it's influence on art and literature has been pretty significant, and I don't just mean surrealism.
  • stetson wrote: »
    Interesting that you name Freud and Jung as among your favs, because, if there is any faction within psychology that falls short of the usual standards of science, it would be psychoanalysis.

    Which is not to say I dislike psychoanalysis, though I think as therapy, it probably just amounts to a more systemized version of "talking things over". To be sure, it's influence on art and literature has been pretty significant, and I don't just mean surrealism.

    So psychoanalysis is lowly esteemed. Ok thanks. Just getting the vibe from a cross section here.
  • Also I would like to know what the religious people here think of Jung. Was Jung a legitimate Christian? Or a fake?
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Also I would like to know what the religious people here think of Jung. Was Jung a legitimate Christian? Or a fake?

    Thid assumes Jung was claiming to be a Christian, and therefore the issue was whether his claims were sincere or fake.

    But I'm not sure if Jung claimed to be Christian throughout his life. He valued religion in general much more highly than Freud did, but did he eg. have a Christian funeral?

    I would guess that most conservative Xtians would reject Jung's view of archetypes, at least insofar as he intended it to include Christian figures(eg. Mary is the Earth Mother or whatever). And some of the more hardcore would reject any search for positive meaning in non-Jewish/Christian faiths.

    And I would be hesitant to say what "religious people" on the Ship think about Jung or anything else. I assume those who regard Jesus as the unique saviour of mankind would be unimpressed with the idea that he's just another archetype, though I doubt you will find too much stridency on the matter.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    stetson wrote: »
    Interesting that you name Freud and Jung as among your favs, because, if there is any faction within psychology that falls short of the usual standards of science, it would be psychoanalysis.

    Which is not to say I dislike psychoanalysis, though I think as therapy, it probably just amounts to a more systemized version of "talking things over". To be sure, it's influence on art and literature has been pretty significant, and I don't just mean surrealism.

    So psychoanalysis is lowly esteemed. Ok thanks. Just getting the vibe from a cross section here.

    Again, I'm not really in a position to say what "the vibe" is on the Ship.

    As far as the general culture goes, I do see quite a few articles in the media along the lines of "Neuroscientists now say the blahblah portion of the brain has more impact on mathematical skills than previously thought". I don't see that many along the lines of "Psychoanalysts now say the Electra Complex develops earlier than previously thought".
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Hm. Apparently, Jung DID have a Christian funeral, at a Reformed church in Switzerland somewhere.
  • Interesting Stetson. Thanks
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited February 21
    Points of information: mental health medication is primarily prescribed by doctors such as psychiatrists or GPs (exclusively so in the U.K.), psychology is a different profession. Also, whilst psychoanalysis is still practised, much current mental health intervention is in the form of cognitive behavioural therapy, cognitive analytic therapy, Rogerian counselling, emdr, positive behavioural support and other interventions developed well after the early 20th century.
  • Points of information: mental health medication is primarily prescribed by doctors such as psychiatrists or GPs (exclusively so in the U.K.), psychology is a different profession. Also, whilst psychoanalysis is still practised, much current mental health intervention is in the form of cognitive behavioural therapy, cognitive analytic therapy, Rogerian counselling, emdr, positive behavioural support and other interventions developed well after the early 20th century.

    Ok fair enough. It's a broad church.
    Is psychiatry a psuedo science then ?
  • HeavenlyannieHeavenlyannie Shipmate
    edited February 21
    Points of information: mental health medication is primarily prescribed by doctors such as psychiatrists or GPs (exclusively so in the U.K.), psychology is a different profession. Also, whilst psychoanalysis is still practised, much current mental health intervention is in the form of cognitive behavioural therapy, cognitive analytic therapy, Rogerian counselling, emdr, positive behavioural support and other interventions developed well after the early 20th century.
    Yes, the opening post seems to confuse psychologists with psychiatrists.
    As someone who has had bipolar disorder for 20 years (and an ex-nurse) I can vouch for the fact that it is far easier to get access to a psychiatrist than a psychologist; I gave up and taught myself CBT.
    Psychology is a therapy not a science. But a lot of psychiatry is not a science either.
    Many people with mental health challenges get fed up with medical professionals, with their reliance on medication rather then therapy, and the stereotyping that occurs (I spent my 20s being offered contraception as manic depressives are promiscuous, despite telling my GP I was a celibate Christian), but few of us get mad at psychologists. I admit I have never met anyone calling themselves a psycho-analyst, even when I worked in an acute psychiatric unit.
  • Points of information: mental health medication is primarily prescribed by doctors such as psychiatrists or GPs (exclusively so in the U.K.), psychology is a different profession. Also, whilst psychoanalysis is still practised, much current mental health intervention is in the form of cognitive behavioural therapy, cognitive analytic therapy, Rogerian counselling, emdr, positive behavioural support and other interventions developed well after the early 20th century.
    Yes, the opening post seems to confuse psychologists with psychiatrists.
    As someone who has had bipolar disorder for 20 years (and an ex-nurse) I can vouch for the fact that it is far easier to get access to a psychiatrist than a psychologist; I gave up and taught myself CBT.
    Psychology is a therapy not a science. But a lot of psychiatry is not a science either.
    Many people with mental health challenges get fed up with medical professionals, with their reliance on medication rather then therapy, and the stereotyping that occurs (I spent my 20s being offered contraception as manic depressives are promiscuous, despite telling my GP I was a celibate Christian), but few of us get mad at psychologists. I admit I have never met anyone calling themselves a psycho-analyst, even when I worked in an acute psychiatric unit.

    Thanks for posting. That's a fair criticism. I have an online friend who suffers schizophrenia. He often complains about psychology being a psuedo science. But I think he was referring to both psychiatry and psychology. The whole mental health field. Not sure to be honest.
  • "Psychology is a therapy not a science. But a lot of psychiatry is not a science either. "(Heavenly Annie)
    Some are dubious about counselling in general. Its efficacy I mean.
    I had some mild forms of anxiety which CBT helped.
    I've never tried psychoanaslysis. Looks interesting but possibly too much self introspection.
  • I think you could make a decent case for psychology being pseudo-science, particularly given the reproducability crisis it is suffering. If your "studies" can't be replicated and hence your theories validated you're not really doing science. Psychiatry I would call more of a proto-science. There is a limited extent to which x intervention can be demonstrated to have y effect (as with most areas of medicine the results are rarely universal) but causal mechanisms are far from well understood. I take medication to assist with anxiety and over the last 3 years have tried perhaps half a dozen different compounds, and I am currently taking three, one of which was developed as an anti-histamine. Psychiatric medication and treatment is still very much in the trial and error stage. Neuroscience is starting to provide some clues as to cause and effect but more than anything is showing just how varied and complex are human bodies in general and brains in particular.
  • I think you could make a decent case for psychology being pseudo-science, particularly given the reproducability crisis it is suffering. If your "studies" can't be replicated and hence your theories validated you're not really doing science. Psychiatry I would call more of a proto-science. There is a limited extent to which x intervention can be demonstrated to have y effect (as with most areas of medicine the results are rarely universal) but causal mechanisms are far from well understood. I take medication to assist with anxiety and over the last 3 years have tried perhaps half a dozen different compounds, and I am currently taking three, one of which was developed as an anti-histamine. Psychiatric medication and treatment is still very much in the trial and error stage. Neuroscience is starting to provide some clues as to cause and effect but more than anything is showing just how varied and complex are human bodies in general and brains in particular.

    I'm liking this forum more and more thanks to posts like this.
  • He often complains about psychology being a psuedo science.

    You've already told me I'm a pedant, so this post won't surprise you. The correct spelling is “pseudo”. This is the third time you’ve made the same mistake, so I suspect it may be more than just carelessness.

  • He often complains about psychology being a psuedo science.

    You've already told me I'm a pedant, so this post won't surprise you. The correct spelling is “pseudo”. This is the third time you’ve made the same mistake, so I suspect it may be more than just carelessness.

    Sorry about yesterday. Thanks for the correction
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited February 21
    Psychology is science of the mind and behaviour.... in theory... in aspiration.

    Psychoanalysis is a therapy which works as well as the therapist.

    I recommend the excellent Mad To Be Normal, watched a week ago, and the fertile three season, 106 episode, In Treatment. Only binge a week at a time.

    Psychology has come a lonnnnng way from the 'theories' of Freud but has a way to go before it is as scientific as physics. Neuroscience is helping.

    I had therapy recently and cannot praise the Ph.D. Rogerian therapist enough. My mental health has never been better. Or worse. I find the God in the shower, of hypnagogy and walking, in the car with my wife at the start of long journeys, of Oasis at 11 today, therapeutic. Far more so than in therapeuo - worship - as I've never encountered anyone I can conversationally share that with outside Oasis beyond parallel play. No quite true. A couple of encounters in 16 years. Meeting of minds.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited February 21
    Psychology is the study of the mind and how it influences our behaviour - communication /memory /thought and emotion. It's about understanding people and what makes them tick. As such it can never be an ‘exact’ science as people are such variable and complex creatures, always surprising us!

    Psychiatrists have a medical degree along with advanced qualifications from residency and a specialty in psychiatry. They use talk therapy, medications, and other treatments to treat people with mental health conditions.

    Psychologists have an advanced degree, such as a PhD or PsyD.

    Neurology is the branch of medicine concerned with the study and treatment of disorders of the nervous system and brain. So different again.

    My ‘disorder’ (ADHD) is a neurological difference, not mental or psychological - but it is diagnosed by a psychiatrist.



  • KwesiKwesi Shipmate
    I think a distinction has to be made between the natural sciences and social sciences. Psychology is normally included in the latter, though some psychologists would beg to differ. It might be pseudo for psychology to pose as a natural science, but is a perfectly respectable social science discipline, IMO, of course!
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Psychology has come a lonnnnng way from the 'theories' of Freud but has a way to go before it is as scientific as physics. Neuroscience is helping.

    The physicist in me has a certain amount of time for the claim that if it ends in -ology it's not a real science. ;)
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Psychology is science of the mind and behaviour.... in theory... in aspiration.

    Psychoanalysis is a therapy which works as well as the therapist.

    I recommend the excellent Mad To Be Normal, watched a week ago, and the fertile three season, 106 episode, In Treatment. Only binge a week at a time.

    Psychology has come a lonnnnng way from the 'theories' of Freud but has a way to go before it is as scientific as physics. Neuroscience is helping.

    I had therapy recently and cannot praise the Ph.D. Rogerian therapist enough. My mental health has never been better. Or worse. I find the God in the shower, of hypnagogy and walking, in the car with my wife at the start of long journeys, of Oasis at 11 today, therapeutic. Far more so than in therapeuo - worship - as I've never encountered anyone I can conversationally share that with outside Oasis beyond parallel play. No quite true. A couple of encounters in 16 years. Meeting of minds.

    I've never done Rogerian therapy....which is basically just talk therapy, right? I can be a talkaholic, so might enjoy it, at the therapists expense.
  • Martin 54
    "Psychology has come a lonnnnng way from the 'theories' of Freud but has a way to go before it is as scientific as physics. Neuroscience is helping."

    That's a good answer. What I was looking for really.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    "Psychology is a therapy not a science. But a lot of psychiatry is not a science either. "(Heavenly Annie)
    Some are dubious about counselling in general. Its efficacy I mean.
    I had some mild forms of anxiety which CBT helped.
    I've never tried psychoanaslysis. Looks interesting but possibly too much self introspection.

    Solution Focussed Therapy is good - it looks forward and isn’t introspective.
  • Boogie wrote: »
    "Psychology is a therapy not a science. But a lot of psychiatry is not a science either. "(Heavenly Annie)
    Some are dubious about counselling in general. Its efficacy I mean.
    I had some mild forms of anxiety which CBT helped.
    I've never tried psychoanaslysis. Looks interesting but possibly too much self introspection.

    Solution Focussed Therapy is good - it looks forward and isn’t introspective.

    Never heard of it. Thanks.
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Psychology has come a lonnnnng way from the 'theories' of Freud but has a way to go before it is as scientific as physics. Neuroscience is helping.

    The physicist in me has a certain amount of time for the claim that if it ends in -ology it's not a real science. ;)

    😆😆
  • Boogie wrote: »
    "Psychology is a therapy not a science. But a lot of psychiatry is not a science either. "(Heavenly Annie)
    Some are dubious about counselling in general. Its efficacy I mean.
    I had some mild forms of anxiety which CBT helped.
    I've never tried psychoanaslysis. Looks interesting but possibly too much self introspection.

    Solution Focussed Therapy is good - it looks forward and isn’t introspective.

    Never heard of it. Thanks.

    I'm currently having a course of it. Two sessions in out of six I'm reserving judgment.
  • "I recommend the excellent Mad To Be Normal, watched a week ago, and the fertile three season, 106 episode, In Treatment. Only binge a week at a time". Martin 54

    I'm on to this asap...thanks
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Psychology is science of the mind and behaviour.... in theory... in aspiration.

    Psychoanalysis is a therapy which works as well as the therapist.

    I recommend the excellent Mad To Be Normal, watched a week ago, and the fertile three season, 106 episode, In Treatment. Only binge a week at a time.

    Psychology has come a lonnnnng way from the 'theories' of Freud but has a way to go before it is as scientific as physics. Neuroscience is helping.

    I had therapy recently and cannot praise the Ph.D. Rogerian therapist enough. My mental health has never been better. Or worse. I find the God in the shower, of hypnagogy and walking, in the car with my wife at the start of long journeys, of Oasis at 11 today, therapeutic. Far more so than in therapeuo - worship - as I've never encountered anyone I can conversationally share that with outside Oasis beyond parallel play. No quite true. A couple of encounters in 16 years. Meeting of minds.

    I've never done Rogerian therapy....which is basically just talk therapy, right? I can be a talkaholic, so might enjoy it, at the therapists expense.

    Aye, like all counselling, it involves talk. It's 'person centred', I like the cognitive bias behind it, the core conditions.

    Choose your bias.
  • caroline444caroline444 Shipmate
    edited February 21
    Someone else who's bipolar here - and I think I've been lucky. I was diagnosed with it forty years ago, and aside from about three major depressions my life has been on an even keel. I feel I owe a lot to the psychiatrists who have helped me, plus I feel I owe a lot to the medications I have been given.

    Twice when I had extreme stress and depression I saw psychotherapists - and I think they were life savers.

    Another time I also had cognitive behavioural therapy, to address a specific issue, and that improved things to a degree.

    I've known a few people with schizophrenia, and their lives were very tough. It's a horribly intrusive & alienating illness, and to control it you have to take medication with really unpleasant side effects.

    I think psychiatry/psychology are sciences, if not exact sciences. Just because a lot of the terms have entered everyday language, it's easy to to regard them just as common sense.
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Psychology is science of the mind and behaviour.... in theory... in aspiration.

    Psychoanalysis is a therapy which works as well as the therapist.

    I recommend the excellent Mad To Be Normal, watched a week ago, and the fertile three season, 106 episode, In Treatment. Only binge a week at a time.

    Psychology has come a lonnnnng way from the 'theories' of Freud but has a way to go before it is as scientific as physics. Neuroscience is helping.

    I had therapy recently and cannot praise the Ph.D. Rogerian therapist enough. My mental health has never been better. Or worse. I find the God in the shower, of hypnagogy and walking, in the car with my wife at the start of long journeys, of Oasis at 11 today, therapeutic. Far more so than in therapeuo - worship - as I've never encountered anyone I can conversationally share that with outside Oasis beyond parallel play. No quite true. A couple of encounters in 16 years. Meeting of minds.

    I've never done Rogerian therapy....which is basically just talk therapy, right? I can be a talkaholic, so might enjoy it, at the therapists expense.

    Aye, like all counselling, it involves talk. It's 'person centred', I like the cognitive bias behind it, the core conditions.

    Choose your bias.

    The key is getting a therapist you connect with. I could never talk to a female counsellor for example.
    Now I sound sexist. 😀
  • Someone else who's bipolar here - and I think I've been lucky. I was diagnosed with it forty years ago, and aside from about three major depressions my life has been on an even keel. I feel I owe a lot to the psychiatrists who have helped me, plus I feel I owe a lot to the medications I have been given.

    Twice when I had extreme stress and depression I saw psychotherapists - and I think they were life savers.

    Another time I also had cognitive behavioural therapy, to address a specific issue, and that improved things to a degree.

    I've known a few people with schizophrenia, and their lives were very tough. It's a horribly intrusive & alienating illness, and to control it you have to take medication with really unpleasant side effects.

    I think psychiatry/psychology are sciences, if not exact sciences. Just because a lot of the terms have entered everyday language, it's easy to to regard them just as common sense.

    From my limited knowledge, bipolar medicine is one of the most effective of all .
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    Psychology is the study of the mind and how it influences our behaviour - communication /memory /thought and emotion. It's about understanding people and what makes them tick. As such it can never be an ‘exact’ science as people are such variable and complex creatures, always surprising us!

    Psychiatrists have a medical degree along with advanced qualifications from residency and a specialty in psychiatry. They use talk therapy, medications, and other treatments to treat people with mental health conditions.

    And so here, a psychologist cannot prescribe drugs. A psychiatrist, being a medical practitioner, can. Is that, or a similar distinction, the law where you are?
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    Psychology is to psychiatry as biology is to medicine. (Probably a simplification but I think it will do.)
    As noted, psychology has a problem with replication. People trying to repeat the results of famous studies have been unable to do so.

    The other joke about it is that psychology is the study of the mind of students with time to participate in psychological studies; and child psychology is the study of the development of children whose parents work at a university.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate
    edited February 21
    Dafyd wrote: »
    Psychology is to psychiatry as biology is to medicine. (Probably a simplification but I think it will do.)
    As noted, psychology has a problem with replication. People trying to repeat the results of famous studies have been unable to do so.

    The other joke about it is that psychology is the study of the mind of students with time to participate in psychological studies; and child psychology is the study of the development of children whose parents work at a university.

    And too many studies of autism are of the children of parents desperate for a "cure". :rage:
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Psychology has come a lonnnnng way from the 'theories' of Freud but has a way to go before it is as scientific as physics. Neuroscience is helping.

    The physicist in me has a certain amount of time for the claim that if it ends in -ology it's not a real science. ;)

    😆😆

    The palaeontologist in me is inviting you into the Quad for a frank exchange of views :p
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited February 21
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Psychology is science of the mind and behaviour.... in theory... in aspiration.

    Psychoanalysis is a therapy which works as well as the therapist.

    I recommend the excellent Mad To Be Normal, watched a week ago, and the fertile three season, 106 episode, In Treatment. Only binge a week at a time.

    Psychology has come a lonnnnng way from the 'theories' of Freud but has a way to go before it is as scientific as physics. Neuroscience is helping.

    I had therapy recently and cannot praise the Ph.D. Rogerian therapist enough. My mental health has never been better. Or worse. I find the God in the shower, of hypnagogy and walking, in the car with my wife at the start of long journeys, of Oasis at 11 today, therapeutic. Far more so than in therapeuo - worship - as I've never encountered anyone I can conversationally share that with outside Oasis beyond parallel play. No quite true. A couple of encounters in 16 years. Meeting of minds.

    Oh! Sorry!!! And the elephant in the room. I find God, in therapeuo, here.
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Psychology is science of the mind and behaviour.... in theory... in aspiration.

    Psychoanalysis is a therapy which works as well as the therapist.

    I recommend the excellent Mad To Be Normal, watched a week ago, and the fertile three season, 106 episode, In Treatment. Only binge a week at a time.

    Psychology has come a lonnnnng way from the 'theories' of Freud but has a way to go before it is as scientific as physics. Neuroscience is helping.

    I had therapy recently and cannot praise the Ph.D. Rogerian therapist enough. My mental health has never been better. Or worse. I find the God in the shower, of hypnagogy and walking, in the car with my wife at the start of long journeys, of Oasis at 11 today, therapeutic. Far more so than in therapeuo - worship - as I've never encountered anyone I can conversationally share that with outside Oasis beyond parallel play. No quite true. A couple of encounters in 16 years. Meeting of minds.

    I've never done Rogerian therapy....which is basically just talk therapy, right? I can be a talkaholic, so might enjoy it, at the therapists expense.

    Aye, like all counselling, it involves talk. It's 'person centred', I like the cognitive bias behind it, the core conditions.

    Choose your bias.

    The key is getting a therapist you connect with. I could never talk to a female counsellor for example.
    Now I sound sexist. 😀

    I've had a mature woman therapist - older than me by at least 10 years - and that worked. I loved her, but no, not that way.
  • Therapy is very much a personal connection, and the relationship is the key healing mechanism. But of course, there are many styles of therapy, and you have to find a good fit. I worked as a therapist for 30 years, and wrote books on it, but it's not an intellectual discipline. Feelings are often the royal road for people in the West, as these are often neglected. I think the body is also important, but then feelings are in the body, when you cry, or laugh, or get angry, or whatever, or release stuff that has been repressed. Of course, it's not for everyone.
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Psychology is science of the mind and behaviour.... in theory... in aspiration.

    Psychoanalysis is a therapy which works as well as the therapist.

    I recommend the excellent Mad To Be Normal, watched a week ago, and the fertile three season, 106 episode, In Treatment. Only binge a week at a time.

    Psychology has come a lonnnnng way from the 'theories' of Freud but has a way to go before it is as scientific as physics. Neuroscience is helping.

    I had therapy recently and cannot praise the Ph.D. Rogerian therapist enough. My mental health has never been better. Or worse. I find the God in the shower, of hypnagogy and walking, in the car with my wife at the start of long journeys, of Oasis at 11 today, therapeutic. Far more so than in therapeuo - worship - as I've never encountered anyone I can conversationally share that with outside Oasis beyond parallel play. No quite true. A couple of encounters in 16 years. Meeting of minds.

    Oh! Sorry!!! And the elephant in the room. I find God, in therapeuo, here.

    Ok I promise to keep your secret. It's made me curious stay a bit longer after an inauspicious beginning here.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Psychology has come a lonnnnng way from the 'theories' of Freud but has a way to go before it is as scientific as physics. Neuroscience is helping.

    The physicist in me has a certain amount of time for the claim that if it ends in -ology it's not a real science. ;)

    😆😆

    The palaeontologist in me is inviting you into the Quad for a frank exchange of views :p

    Ok I give in. Where is the quad?
  • Therapy is very much a personal connection, and the relationship is the key healing mechanism. But of course, there are many styles of therapy, and you have to find a good fit. I worked as a therapist for 30 years, and wrote books on it, but it's not an intellectual discipline. Feelings are often the royal road for people in the West, as these are often neglected. I think the body is also important, but then feelings are in the body, when you cry, or laugh, or get angry, or whatever, or release stuff that has been repressed. Of course, it's not for everyone.

    Awesome...thanks
  • Dafyd wrote: »
    Psychology is to psychiatry as biology is to medicine. (Probably a simplification but I think it will do.)
    As noted, psychology has a problem with replication. People trying to repeat the results of famous studies have been unable to do so.

    The other joke about it is that psychology is the study of the mind of students with time to participate in psychological studies; and child psychology is the study of the development of children whose parents work at a university.

    Ok..what do you think of JP then? Jordan Peterson? Is he overrated?
  • The physicist in me has a certain amount of time for the claim that if it ends in -ology it's not a real science. ;)

    What can be known about epistemology?
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited February 21
    JP? In my experience he has an uncanny knack for turning progressive intelligent people into right-wing conspiracy theorists intent on a world where everyone who's not a cis-het male has to worship at the feet of those blessed individuals who are.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    JP? In my experience he has an uncanny knack for turning progressive intelligent people into right-wing conspiracy theorists intent on a world where everyone who's not a cis-het male has to worship at the feet of those blessed individuals who are.

    I'm probably one of those people. I forgive people a lot if they are interesting.
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    Ok..what do you think of JP then? Jordan Peterson? Is he overrated?
    I gather he's some kind of self-help author?

  • Dafyd wrote: »
    Psychology is to psychiatry as biology is to medicine. (Probably a simplification but I think it will do.)
    As noted, psychology has a problem with replication. People trying to repeat the results of famous studies have been unable to do so.

    The other joke about it is that psychology is the study of the mind of students with time to participate in psychological studies; and child psychology is the study of the development of children whose parents work at a university.

    Ok..what do you think of JP then? Jordan Peterson? Is he overrated?

    I think he's a massive grifter and that even the averagely intelligent person should understand this after his very public failure to 'clean his room'. That his fans haven't seems to be a mixture of delusion and sunk cost fallacy.
  • Dafyd wrote: »
    Ok..what do you think of JP then? Jordan Peterson? Is he overrated?
    I gather he's some kind of self-help author?

    So you don't know him. Interesting.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited February 21
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Psychology is science of the mind and behaviour.... in theory... in aspiration.

    Psychoanalysis is a therapy which works as well as the therapist.

    I recommend the excellent Mad To Be Normal, watched a week ago, and the fertile three season, 106 episode, In Treatment. Only binge a week at a time.

    Psychology has come a lonnnnng way from the 'theories' of Freud but has a way to go before it is as scientific as physics. Neuroscience is helping.

    I had therapy recently and cannot praise the Ph.D. Rogerian therapist enough. My mental health has never been better. Or worse. I find the God in the shower, of hypnagogy and walking, in the car with my wife at the start of long journeys, of Oasis at 11 today, therapeutic. Far more so than in therapeuo - worship - as I've never encountered anyone I can conversationally share that with outside Oasis beyond parallel play. No quite true. A couple of encounters in 16 years. Meeting of minds.

    Oh! Sorry!!! And the elephant in the room. I find God, in therapeuo, here.

    Ok I promise to keep your secret. It's made me curious stay a bit longer after an inauspicious beginning here.

    Please stay with us, you're one of us, no question. Oasis - Brian McLaren! - delivered in spades.
  • Dafyd wrote: »
    Psychology is to psychiatry as biology is to medicine. (Probably a simplification but I think it will do.)
    As noted, psychology has a problem with replication. People trying to repeat the results of famous studies have been unable to do so.

    The other joke about it is that psychology is the study of the mind of students with time to participate in psychological studies; and child psychology is the study of the development of children whose parents work at a university.

    Ok..what do you think of JP then? Jordan Peterson? Is he overrated?

    I think he's a massive grifter and that even the averagely intelligent person should understand this after his very public failure to 'clean his room'. That his fans haven't seems to be a mixture of delusion and sunk cost fallacy.

    I don't mind admitting I'm still a fan. Even after his own mental breakdown. He's a motivator.
    One of his problems was he was too intense. He needed to chill more. Hes not a Messiah but he knows how to hold an audience.
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