Telford, you owe me an apology.

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Comments

  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    edited March 2
    I asked you if you were a believer and you declined to give an answer.

    In the post you quoted, I did not say that you were not a believer

    Just clarify the situation and we can then move on.
  • You don't have the right to confront anyone like this.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    I asked you if you were a believer and you declined to give an answer.

    In the post you quoted, I did not say that you were not a believer

    Just clarify the situation and we can then move on.

    Just apologize and we can move on.
  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    edited March 2
    You don't have the right to confront anyone like this.

    I was not the one doing the confronting. I was called to Hell so I have every right
    mousethief wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    I asked you if you were a believer and you declined to give an answer.

    In the post you quoted, I did not say that you were not a believer

    Just clarify the situation and we can then move on.

    Just apologize and we can move on.

    What would I be apologising for ?

  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Read the OP.
  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    mousethief wrote: »
    Read the OP.
    The problem I have is that I do not agree with the OP for the reasons I stated in my first post in here.

    However, you appear to be very upset so I apologise for upsetting you.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    An apology would be for what you did, not for its effect.
  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    edited March 2
    mousethief wrote: »
    An apology would be for what you did, not for its effect.

    OK I apologise to you for saying Fair enough. You don't know whether or not you believe
    In addition, I apologise for being confused about your earlier statements
  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    Telford wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    An apology would be for what you did, not for its effect.

    OK I apologise to you for saying Fair enough. You don't know whether or not you believe
    In addition, I apologise for being confused about your earlier statements

    Apology not accepted.
  • Telford, MT is in the U.S. You might consider time zones before jumping to conclusions.
  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    Telford, MT is in the U.S. You might consider time zones before jumping to conclusions.

    Fair enough. I will be patient.

  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    mousethief has been on SoF for about two decades and has self identified as an Orthodox Christian throughout. That’s enough for me anyway!

    In addition mousethief is a prolific poster. I’ve read all of his posts since I became a Host and the effect has been to confirm over and over again his self identification. Orthodoxy covers a significant variation of beliefs and understandings within an overall characteristic theological framework. In that respect it is no different to other denominations. Variations within and across denominations are just normal.

    Therefore, any attempts to weigh in the balance the ‘soundness’ of other SoF Christians, on the basis of one’s own perception of ‘soundness’, is in my opinion a pretty doleful practice. Personally I don’t do it. Besides, no one is required to answer any question which they perceive as intrusive or rude or ‘none of their business’.
  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    mousethief has been on SoF for about two decades and has self identified as an Orthodox Christian throughout. That’s enough for me anyway!

    In addition mousethief is a prolific poster. I’ve read all of his posts since I became a Host and the effect has been to confirm over and over again his self identification. Orthodoxy covers a significant variation of beliefs and understandings within an overall characteristic theological framework. In that respect it is no different to other denominations. Variations within and across denominations are just normal.

    Therefore, any attempts to weigh in the balance the ‘soundness’ of other SoF Christians, on the basis of one’s own perception of ‘soundness’, is in my opinion a pretty doleful practice. Personally I don’t do it. Besides, no one is required to answer any question which they perceive as intrusive or rude or ‘none of their business’.

    Never the less he has declined to accept an apology he pestered me for.

  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    An apology would be for what you did, not for its effect.

    OK I apologise to you for saying Fair enough. You don't know whether or not you believe
    In addition, I apologise for being confused about your earlier statements

    Apology not accepted.

    You're doing it again. This rather shows the insincerity of your apology.
  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    edited March 2
    My apology was sincere and heartfelt.

    Do you accept it or not
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited March 2
    Telford wrote: »
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    mousethief has been on SoF for about two decades and has self identified as an Orthodox Christian throughout. That’s enough for me anyway!

    In addition mousethief is a prolific poster. I’ve read all of his posts since I became a Host and the effect has been to confirm over and over again his self identification. Orthodoxy covers a significant variation of beliefs and understandings within an overall characteristic theological framework. In that respect it is no different to other denominations. Variations within and across denominations are just normal.

    Therefore, any attempts to weigh in the balance the ‘soundness’ of other SoF Christians, on the basis of one’s own perception of ‘soundness’, is in my opinion a pretty doleful practice. Personally I don’t do it. Besides, no one is required to answer any question which they perceive as intrusive or rude or ‘none of their business’.

    Never the less he has declined to accept an apology he pestered me for.
    No. You have interpreted the lack of a response—which could be due to any number of things, not least of which is real life off the Ship—as “declining” to accept your apology. Which is pretty much the same thing that led to this Hell Call in the first place, as you interpreted his question asking why you wanted to know whether he believes or not as an admission that he doesn’t believe.

    He didn’t “decline” to accept your apology. A quick look at his profile would have shown you that he hadn’t posted on the Ship at all since you offered that apology.

  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    mousethief has been on SoF for about two decades and has self identified as an Orthodox Christian throughout. That’s enough for me anyway!

    In addition mousethief is a prolific poster. I’ve read all of his posts since I became a Host and the effect has been to confirm over and over again his self identification. Orthodoxy covers a significant variation of beliefs and understandings within an overall characteristic theological framework. In that respect it is no different to other denominations. Variations within and across denominations are just normal.

    Therefore, any attempts to weigh in the balance the ‘soundness’ of other SoF Christians, on the basis of one’s own perception of ‘soundness’, is in my opinion a pretty doleful practice. Personally I don’t do it. Besides, no one is required to answer any question which they perceive as intrusive or rude or ‘none of their business’.

    Never the less he has declined to accept an apology he pestered me for.
    No. You have interpreted his silence—which could be due to any number of things, not least of which is real life off the Ship—as “declining” to accept your apology. Which is pretty much the same thing that led to this Hell Call in the first place, as you interpreted his question asking why you wanted to know whether he believes or not as an admission that he doesn’t believe.

    He didn’t “decline” to accept your apology. A quick look at his profile would have shown you that he hadn’t posted on the Ship at all since you offered that apology.
    You clearly haven't had this quick look at his profile. The apology he demanded was made at 4.11am and amended at 4.15. He posted at 5.35am
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    You’re right; I didn’t catch that. My apologies.

    Still, you don’t know why he didn’t respond to your apology, and therefore you don’t know that he declined it.
  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    You’re right; I didn’t catch that. My apologies.
    Apology accepted.
    Still, you don’t know why he didn’t respond to your apology, and therefore you don’t know that he declined it.
    It would appear that my apology was not acceptable

  • Stop digging, Telford. Mousethief may have been a bit cryptic on that thread but I certainly didn't take his response to you as an indication that he refused to state whether he believed or not.

    I took him to be either telling you to mind your own business or simply being cryptic for reasons best known for himself. Some of our Lord's answers to people in the Gospels appear that way at times, not that I am putting anything that Mousethief or any one else says here on the level of holy writ.

    I wouldn't have answered you the way he did, but then I'm not Mousethief. I would have found your line of questioning irritating though and can understand why he has called you here.

  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    Stop digging, Telford. Mousethief may have been a bit cryptic on that thread but I certainly didn't take his response to you as an indication that he refused to state whether he believed or not.

    I took him to be either telling you to mind your own business or simply being cryptic for reasons best known for himself. Some of our Lord's answers to people in the Gospels appear that way at times, not that I am putting anything that Mousethief or any one else says here on the level of holy writ.

    I wouldn't have answered you the way he did, but then I'm not Mousethief. I would have found your line of questioning irritating though and can understand why he has called you here.
    He called me here. I complied with his demand and he has declined to accept my apology. There is a easy way for him to end this thread

  • Telford, would you please reach round your back and pull that stick out? It's getting really annoying, how eager you are to take offense--while dishing out so often. Please. It makes me not want to engage with you at all.
  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    edited March 2
    Telford, would you please reach round your back and pull that stick out? It's getting really annoying, how eager you are to take offense--while dishing out so often. Please. It makes me not want to engage with you at all.

    When did I dish it out?
    Did I start this thread?
    Have I demanded an apology?
    Am I the one who has taken offence and demanded an apology?
    Am I the one who has refused to accept an apology?
    Am I the newbee?.......Yes
    Am I the one who has been on here for about 2 decades ?.....No
    Did I expect anyone to support me in this?......No

  • Have you tried reading the room? You raise hackles pretty routinely, and it's nothing to do with you being a newbie. I have been basically skirting around it, because I know you're going to take offense if I engage with you--and behold.

    Look, it's good advice. Stop being so stiff and righteous. Don't demand your pound of flesh--or if you must, do it every other Tuesday, and not every freaking day. Learn to enjoy yourself, learn to give other people the benefit of the doubt. Try not to say things you know are going to get people's backs up, like the one that started off this thread.

    You can do it. I have faith in you. Try?
  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    edited March 2
    Have you tried reading the room? You raise hackles pretty routinely, and it's nothing to do with you being a newbie. I have been basically skirting around it, because I know you're going to take offense if I engage with you--and behold.

    Look, it's good advice. Stop being so stiff and righteous. Don't demand your pound of flesh--or if you must, do it every other Tuesday, and not every freaking day. Learn to enjoy yourself, learn to give other people the benefit of the doubt. Try not to say things you know are going to get people's backs up, like the one that started off this thread.

    You can do it. I have faith in you. Try?

    Have you adressed this to Mr Mousethief as well.

    Please refer me to a few other posts in the past week or so where I have caused upset. Your comments are exaggerated but I do not take offence.

    By the way, if you want me to stop posting on this thread I will do so.

  • I'm not telling you to stop posting here. And I'm not going to discuss somebody else's issues to deflect from our conversation now. In fact, I don't think I'm going to continue the conversation, because I've said basically all I have to say, and I wish you well. I was glad to see you join the Ship, and gladder to see you hang on despite the fact that it is obviously a bit uncomfortable fit for you. That takes some doing, and good on you. But I'll be even happier if you can ... relax? have some fun? stop stomping on toes, and at the same moment learn to forgive those whom you think are stepping on yours?

    Because it doesn't have to be this difficult.
  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    edited March 3
    I'm not telling you to stop posting here. And I'm not going to discuss somebody else's issues to deflect from our conversation now. In fact, I don't think I'm going to continue the conversation, because I've said basically all I have to say, and I wish you well. I was glad to see you join the Ship, and gladder to see you hang on despite the fact that it is obviously a bit uncomfortable fit for you. That takes some doing, and good on you. But I'll be even happier if you can ... relax? have some fun? stop stomping on toes, and at the same moment learn to forgive those whom you think are stepping on yours?

    Because it doesn't have to be this difficult.

    I asked you for a few examples so I could see where I had gone wrong. When you tell me that I cause problems every day, It's something that I need to address.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    In my decades here, I've seen @mousethief be a colossal pain as well as hilarious and kindly. His posting vicissitudes have become predictable, and in that way understanding has led to accepting.

    Meanwhile, in the few years I've observed you, @Telford, I've seen nothing but tedium and unworthy pettiness. I almost envy you, in the staggering array of opportunities before you for self-improvement.

    And then there's @Lamb Chopped , whose tact and insight none of us are worthy to question. That you aren't thanking her for the way she's gifting you helpful insight says all most observers need to understand who and what you are.
  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    RooK wrote: »
    In my decades here, I've seen @mousethief be a colossal pain as well as hilarious and kindly. His posting vicissitudes have become predictable, and in that way understanding has led to accepting.

    Meanwhile, in the few years I've observed you, @Telford, I've seen nothing but tedium and unworthy pettiness. I almost envy you, in the staggering array of opportunities before you for self-improvement.
    That's for your support anyway. Any recemnt examples you would care to share with me. Have I offended you recently ?
    And then there's @Lamb Chopped , whose tact and insight none of us are worthy to question. That you aren't thanking her for the way she's gifting you helpful insight says all most observers need to understand who and what you are.
    I apprfecaie that she didn't want to include posts involving other people but as I appear to offend every day, I was hoping for a few examples where I had offended her. I do thanks her for her efforts by the way.

  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    RooK wrote: »
    In my decades here, I've seen @mousethief be a colossal pain as well as hilarious and kindly.

    Thank you, @RooK. I do not deny the least syllable of this addition (well okay maybe not hilarious but I try).
    His posting vicissitudes have become predictable, and in that way understanding has led to accepting.

    Thank you again.
  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    My apology has still not been accepted. Any reason for this mousethief ?
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Telford--

    Take LC's and Rook's words to heart. Please.
  • Dude. What I hear you saying is, "I want justice." Again and again and again. "I want what I'm owed." "I'm not asking for anything but what's mine." and so forth.

    Are you up on Hamlet, by any chance?

    POLONIUS

    My lord, I will use them according to their desert.


    HAMLET

    God’s bodykins, man, much better. Use every man after his desert, and who should ’scape whipping? Use them after your own honor and dignity. The less they deserve, the more merit is in your bounty. Take them in.

    Work on showing grace. Seriously. It's the only way forward, anywhere. It's no good saying stuff in the vein of "I'll have my rights" and "Let's get all the facts out there and have a verdict" and "Prove to me that I deserve such-and-such." It doesn't matter whether you're right or not, because everybody but everybody is wrong sometimes, and if you don't show grace to others, who will show it to you?

    Just walk away. Or if you can find it in your heart, ask the Lord to bring about something better--so that you can actually reach out with charity and love to those who hold different opinions than yours.
  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Telford--

    Take LC's and Rook's words to heart. Please.
    OK
    Dude. What I hear you saying is, "I want justice." Again and again and again. "I want what I'm owed." "I'm not asking for anything but what's mine." and so forth.

    Are you up on Hamlet, by any chance?

    POLONIUS

    My lord, I will use them according to their desert.


    HAMLET

    God’s bodykins, man, much better. Use every man after his desert, and who should ’scape whipping? Use them after your own honor and dignity. The less they deserve, the more merit is in your bounty. Take them in.

    Work on showing grace. Seriously. It's the only way forward, anywhere. It's no good saying stuff in the vein of "I'll have my rights" and "Let's get all the facts out there and have a verdict" and "Prove to me that I deserve such-and-such." It doesn't matter whether you're right or not, because everybody but everybody is wrong sometimes, and if you don't show grace to others, who will show it to you?

    Just walk away. Or if you can find it in your heart, ask the Lord to bring about something better--so that you can actually reach out with charity and love to those who hold different opinions than yours.

    Thanks.... I have apologised 4 times . I can't do any more.

    My apologies have not been accepted but I am going to accept the situation.

    My last post in this thread unless I am dragged back in

  • Telford wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Telford--

    Take LC's and Rook's words to heart. Please.
    OK
    Dude. What I hear you saying is, "I want justice." Again and again and again. "I want what I'm owed." "I'm not asking for anything but what's mine." and so forth.

    Are you up on Hamlet, by any chance?

    POLONIUS

    My lord, I will use them according to their desert.


    HAMLET

    God’s bodykins, man, much better. Use every man after his desert, and who should ’scape whipping? Use them after your own honor and dignity. The less they deserve, the more merit is in your bounty. Take them in.

    Work on showing grace. Seriously. It's the only way forward, anywhere. It's no good saying stuff in the vein of "I'll have my rights" and "Let's get all the facts out there and have a verdict" and "Prove to me that I deserve such-and-such." It doesn't matter whether you're right or not, because everybody but everybody is wrong sometimes, and if you don't show grace to others, who will show it to you?

    Just walk away. Or if you can find it in your heart, ask the Lord to bring about something better--so that you can actually reach out with charity and love to those who hold different opinions than yours.

    Thanks.... I have apologised 4 times . I can't do any more.

    My apologies have not been accepted but I am going to accept the situation.

    My last post in this thread unless I am dragged back in

    Don't hang round this cess pool of childish torture games. The old clique love it. They hold all the aces. It's the real game here. The pretend game is "serious" discussion. What a joke .
    These old farts have got nothing better to do.
    Oh hi to all my fans by the way.
  • Dude, you're back! Our favorite chew toy. :kissing_heart: :heart: :heart: Things haven't been the same 'round the old inferno without you.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Telford wrote: »
    My apology has still not been accepted. Any reason for this mousethief ?

    What apology? The one you immediately took back? I consider +1 and –1 to add to zero.
  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    Don't hang round this cess pool of childish torture games. The old clique love it. They hold all the aces. It's the real game here. The pretend game is "serious" discussion. What a joke .
    These old farts have got nothing better to do.
    Oh hi to all my fans by the way.

    Oh Sweetie, are you feeling left out because someone else is getting more attention?

    Never mind, that lovely Lamb Chopped has offered to play with you. Play nicely now.

    In case you failed to read the guidelines, Hell does not purport to be for serious discussion. Try Purgatory.
  • Hold on for a moment, please. Let's not deify MT in the same way (longevity doesn't mean untouchable) as we'd crucify Telford (newness doesn't equate to "target").

    Both of them - as are all of us - are capable of provoking the wrath of their readers by their views and responses. MT is no less capable of a wind up (he's had a lot of practice here), as is Telford (practice here and elsewhere).

    Is there a teeny bit of MT trying to push this as far as he can?????
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited March 3
    Your name is @ExclamationMark, not question mark. :grey_question: :grey_question: :grey_question: :grey_question: Stoppit.

    But you have a point, as does @RooK.

    Telford, so far, has shown little wit, humanity or care. Although I can see glimmers, occasionally.

    Give it another 20 years?
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    Somehow in my life I must have missed the rule where apologies are only given on condition that they're explicitly accepted. Like some kind of contract.
  • orfeo wrote: »
    Somehow in my life I must have missed the rule where apologies are only given on condition that they're explicitly accepted. Like some kind of contract.

    It only applies to insincere apologies.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Non-apology apologies drive me maaaad.

    Wiki puts it better than I can -
    "I'm sorry you feel that way" redirects here. For the stand-up comedy film by Bill Burr, see I'm Sorry You Feel That Way.
    A non-apology apology, sometimes called a nonpology, backhanded apology, or fauxpology, is a statement in the form of an apology that does not express remorse. It is common in politics and public relations.

    Saying "I'm sorry you feel that way" to someone who has been offended by a statement is a non-apology apology. It does not admit there was anything wrong with the remarks made, and may imply the person took offense for hypersensitive or irrational reasons. Another form of non-apology does not apologize directly to the injured or insulted party, but generically "to anyone who might have been offended".

    Statements that use the word "sorry" but do not express responsibility for wrongdoing may be meaningful expressions of regret, but such statements can also be used to elicit forgiveness without acknowledging fault.[4]
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    It is normal to accept an apology. Though I do agree Telford seems to have added some caveats to his apology. My decades on here have taught me that an apology should be given even without acceptance. If nothing else it makes you look good for apologising. Something Telford has not picked up on.
  • This thread is looking more and more like a play by Samuel Beckett (possibly entitled PotPlant ?), with the added attraction of a cameo appearance by The Madly Humble One...

    The Good Advice meted out by various Shipmates is worth noting @Telford.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Fascinating thread. Reminded me again of how fortunate we are to have many constructive and sensitive Shipmates.

    Bouquets to Lamb Chopped in particular to set alongside those from RooK.
  • TelfordTelford Ship-mate

    The Good Advice meted out by various Shipmates is worth noting @Telford.

    I took the advice but it was to no avail.
    Hold on for a moment, please. Let's not deify MT in the same way (longevity doesn't mean untouchable) as we'd crucify Telford (newness doesn't equate to "target").

    Both of them - as are all of us - are capable of provoking the wrath of their readers by their views and responses. MT is no less capable of a wind up (he's had a lot of practice here), as is Telford (practice here and elsewhere).

    Is there a teeny bit of MT trying to push this as far as he can?????
    You might say that. I couldn't possibly comment. I would then have to apologise another 4 times

  • Boogie wrote: »
    Your name is @ExclamationMark, not question mark. :grey_question: :grey_question: :grey_question: :grey_question: Stoppit.
    My choice. Thanks

  • Telford wrote: »

    The Good Advice meted out by various Shipmates is worth noting @Telford.

    I took the advice but it was to no avail.

    O dear. What a shame - all those wise words wasted.

  • @Telford - the group of people responding to you have said that they don't see that you have taken the advice. My read of things is that it's at the level of non-contrite, "sorry if you took offence", versus "I'm sorry I offended you and I understand how it was that I did it".

    This isn't an apology and is where you dug the pit deeper.
    OK I apologise to you for saying Fair enough. You don't know whether or not you believe
    In addition, I apologise for being confused about your earlier statements

    When I posted above that you didn't have the right to confront someone like you did, I was referencing the @OP
    Telford wrote: »
    » show previous quotes

    Fair enough. You don't know whether or not you believe. I will now know where you are coming from.
    That's is the confrontation. You also posted the following previous to that:
    mousethief wrote: »
    Read the OP.

    The problem I have is that I do not agree with the OP for the reasons I stated in my first post in here.

    However, you appear to be very upset so I apologise for upsetting you.

    We could go on - these are in the style and manner of apology, but they aren't actually apologetic. In your view, it appears, it is MT who has the problem, and it is wholly MT's, with little to do with you. The obvious inference is that you believe MT is out of order to find your original comment offensive, and to not accept your view that, while your sorry there's trouble and a conflict, that you haven't any real responsibility. That's bad.
This discussion has been closed.