New ++ Sydney

Gee DGee D Shipmate
Kanishka Raffel, the Dean of St Andrews's Cathedral Sydney, has been elected the new Abp. He had spent many years in parish life in Perth before returning to Sydney 5 or so years ago when he was appointed Dean. Moore College trained.

Obviously, he's in the Sydney mould, and we'd been rather hoping that +Michael Stead, a regional bishop in the diocese, would have been elected. His time as a bishop, and also in a parish very near us, showed that while in the general Moore College line, he was more open to other streams of Anglicanism than many others.

Does anyone, especially those from Perth, have any knowledge of him?

Comments

  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    Thanks for this; saw the announcement today. Look forward to input from the West. Where is Fr Jugular when he is needed?
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Rexory posts from time to time, but Jugular and Evensong have been quiet for years.
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    Apparently he's a board member of GAFCON...
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    Oh dear
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    orfeo wrote: »
    Apparently he's a board member of GAFCON...

    Yes...... Not encouraging, is it.
  • Hmm. Does the Anglican church in Australia have as much influence, and good effect on the people generally, as the C of E does up here in the sad wastelands of England?
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    You must understand that there are Anglicans and that there are Sydney Anglicans ( who are not necessarily Anglicans who live in Sydney)

    I am sure that Australian Anglicans ( I am not) who can enlighten you further
  • Yes, I understand that, but does either version of Anglicanism in Oz actually matter to the majority of the population?
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    Except for when the Sydney version pops up to oppose gay marriage I don't think there's a great deal of awareness, no.

    The only people who really understand the difference between Anglicans and Sydney Anglicans are Anglicans, and possibly Sydney Anglicans...
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited May 7
    Thanks @orfeo - I thought that might be the case. Much the same here.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Picking up from Orfeo's post, there's been no report online by our ABC, or the Sydney Morning Herald of the election, and I can't remember any in the paper edition of the SMH - this despite the new Abp being the first from a non-Anglo background. His parents were Sri Lankan and he was raised as a Buddhist. 60 years ago, it would have been on the front page.
  • Gee D wrote: »
    Picking up from Orfeo's post, there's been no report online by our ABC, or the Sydney Morning Herald of the election, and I can't remember any in the paper edition of the SMH - this despite the new Abp being the first from a non-Anglo background. His parents were Sri Lankan and he was raised as a Buddhist. 60 years ago, it would have been on the front page.

    I suppose in some ways it is a good thing that this is considered unremarkable. I believe when Michael Nazir-Ali was consecrated Bishop of Rochester one local remarked "Ooo, I didn't know a Muslim was allowed to be a bishop..."
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    edited May 9
    I take your point, but my post had 2 thrusts. The second was the very different background of the new Abp, and the first was that there was no mention at all that there was a new one. Not so long ago, the second would have warranted a story on p.3, if not the front page, and then a feature article on the spread opposite the editorial. Some matters were kept quiet though, including the reason for the sudden return to England of ++ Hugh Gough (he'd been having an affair with the wife of a prominent and wealthy Anglican).
  • Barnabas_AusBarnabas_Aus Shipmate
    A story in the Sun-Herald yesterday indicated that his approach would be fairly standard Sydney Anglican but hinted at small steps back from some of the more radical positions.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Thanks - we don't get the Sun-Herald and so missed that. We'll have to see what happens. Much the same was said of ++Glenn, but he did not live up to that. The worst was the donation of $1m to the No campaign in the same-sex marriage opinion poll, but there were other and less visible decisions he made that showed very clearly that he was as Moore College as Peter Jensen - just gave bigger smiles.
  • Gee D wrote: »
    Picking up from Orfeo's post, there's been no report online by our ABC, or the Sydney Morning Herald of the election, and I can't remember any in the paper edition of the SMH - this despite the new Abp being the first from a non-Anglo background. His parents were Sri Lankan and he was raised as a Buddhist. 60 years ago, it would have been on the front page.

    I suppose in some ways it is a good thing that this is considered unremarkable. I believe when Michael Nazir-Ali was consecrated Bishop of Rochester one local remarked "Ooo, I didn't know a Muslim was allowed to be a bishop..."

    The irony being that he was easily the most Islamophobic bishop on the bench.
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    Hardly a surprise considering that he was born in Karachi & his father was a convert from Islam. The Islanic Republic of Pakistan can be a tough place to be a Christian as we all know
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    edited May 10
    Yeah. Our retiring vicar is Pakistani American. And instead of taking a safe, comfortable retirement in the US, the couple is returning to Pakistan to work on Christian/Islamic community relationships and minority rights.

    God protect them. :cold_sweat:
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    Indeed and good on ‘em
  • +Nazir-Ali has been (and may still be) very helpful, in a personal and understandably understated capacity, to Muslims converting to Christianity.

    Just saying, as there are two sides to every coin...
  • rhubarbrhubarb Shipmate
    We have had a real problem with the 'Sydney Anglican' priest who unfortunately was appointed to my Anglo Catholic church. I don't quite understand how that happened but there seems to be little to be done about it than to pray for his early retirement. He has attempted to 'sanitise' our services to his taste and as a result we have lost many of the church faithful. It seems odd to me that one diocese can be so different from the rest of the country's Anglicans.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Yes.it's a real problem. Several of us thought that ++Glenn would be more accepting of A-C and high parishes - but no, and the attack has extended to MOTR and old-fashioned low parishes as well.
  • Nunc DimittisNunc Dimittis Shipmate Posts: 25
    Yes, I understand that, but does either version of Anglicanism in Oz actually matter to the majority of the population?

    Not really. No. Australian society is almost entirely secular and deeply suspicious of any religious content. Occasionally the ABC has an Anglican cleric on a panel, and there's a new episode of Compass which features the Rector of St Matthew's Albury, who has refused to preside at communion services in his parish until the church allows gay marriage.

  • Nunc DimittisNunc Dimittis Shipmate Posts: 25
    rhubarb wrote: »
    We have had a real problem with the 'Sydney Anglican' priest who unfortunately was appointed to my Anglo Catholic church. I don't quite understand how that happened but there seems to be little to be done about it than to pray for his early retirement. He has attempted to 'sanitise' our services to his taste and as a result we have lost many of the church faithful. It seems odd to me that one diocese can be so different from the rest of the country's Anglicans.

    The reason is that Sydney evangelical Anglicanism is inherently and militaristically colonising in its intention. It's not about the cure of souls but the imposition of one particular point of view (which is held up as unassailable "Biblical" truth).

    I am so sorry for what's happened to your parish. It's a common story (and happened to the parish I came from in Sydney).
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    rhubarb wrote: »
    We have had a real problem with the 'Sydney Anglican' priest who unfortunately was appointed to my Anglo Catholic church. I don't quite understand how that happened but there seems to be little to be done about it than to pray for his early retirement. He has attempted to 'sanitise' our services to his taste and as a result we have lost many of the church faithful. It seems odd to me that one diocese can be so different from the rest of the country's Anglicans.

    The reason it happened is in the Diocesan Ordinance. The parish elects a group of nominators. When there's a parish vacancy, a committee is formed, consisting of the 5 parish nominators, and 4 members elected on an annual basis by Synod - and you can guess their style. The committee is chaired by the regional bishop, who has no vote. The nominators look around for a new rector and suggest a name or 2 to the committee. In turn, the Synod members suggest names to the parish nominators. The committee then makes a choice and the name of the candidate recommended goes to the Archbishop. He* is under no obligation to accept the recommendation. The committee has a life of 12 months (I've forgotten the starting date to count) after which the appointment is entirely up to the Archbishop. He may discuss any possible appointee with the parish nominators but is not required to do so. To repeat - any appointment is by the Archbishop and the decision to appoint is his alone. All the nomination committee, and parish nominators, can do is suggest or recommend.

    *For those not in Sydney, it is always he. Women are not accepted as priests in Sydney.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    We talked about this today in our walk - never too wet a day for an afternoon walk. We're pretty sure in our minds what the parish is*, and what has happened there is very sad. A vibrant and committed parish that has lost not just "many of the faithful". Rather, a large proportion of that many were people in their 40s and 50s, the generation to which normally the parish would be expecting to move steadily into management roles in the next few years.

    *Shan't name it to protect you and others remaining.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Not really. No. Australian society is almost entirely secular and deeply suspicious of any religious content. Occasionally the ABC has an Anglican cleric on a panel, and there's a new episode of Compass which features the Rector of St Matthew's Albury, who has refused to preside at communion services in his parish until the church allows gay marriage.
    I assume that's fiction, but I hope he's arranged for someone else to preside. However strong his opinions on this and irrespective of his views on the subject, it doesn't excuse depriving his congregation of the sacraments.
    😈😸😛

  • Enoch wrote: »
    Not really. No. Australian society is almost entirely secular and deeply suspicious of any religious content. Occasionally the ABC has an Anglican cleric on a panel, and there's a new episode of Compass which features the Rector of St Matthew's Albury, who has refused to preside at communion services in his parish until the church allows gay marriage.
    I assume that's fiction, but I hope he's arranged for someone else to preside. However strong his opinions on this and irrespective of his views on the subject, it doesn't excuse depriving his congregation of the sacraments.
    😈😸😛

    Surely that cuts both ways? He's depriving his congregation of a sacrament because the church is witholding another from same sex couples. As folk in TEC say: "all the sacraments for all the baptised".
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Albury is in Wangaratta Diocese, which has a pretty liberal reputation. It's in some trouble with the national church at the moment because it wants to bless same-sex unions (and probably move from there to marriages).
  • Leorning CnihtLeorning Cniht Shipmate
    edited May 22
    Surely that cuts both ways? He's depriving his congregation of a sacrament because the church is witholding another from same sex couples. As folk in TEC say: "all the sacraments for all the baptised".

    "I won't marry anyone until I can marry gay couples" might be proportionate. Denying communion to his parish would be all kinds of wrong. But in a world that also contains "priests" who say that they don't believe in God any more, but want to keep on being the vicar, he may not be the absolute worst ever priest.
  • Surely that cuts both ways? He's depriving his congregation of a sacrament because the church is witholding another from same sex couples. As folk in TEC say: "all the sacraments for all the baptised".

    "I won't marry anyone until I can marry gay couples" might be proportionate. Denying communion to his parish would be all kinds of wrong. But in a world that also contains "priests" who say that they don't believe in God any more, but want to keep on being the vicar, he may not be the absolute worst ever priest.

    I'm inclined to agree. I was just highlighting that the rest of his church is also depriving a large number of people of at least one of the sacraments.
  • Barnabas_AusBarnabas_Aus Shipmate
    Gee D wrote: »
    Albury is in Wangaratta Diocese, which has a pretty liberal reputation. It's in some trouble with the national church at the moment because it wants to bless same-sex unions (and probably move from there to marriages).

    The Appellate Tribunal has ruled that the Wangaratta and Newcastle legislation is valid. I think both diocese are moving cautiously towards implementing blessings.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Thanks - good news that I'd missed
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