That would be a liturgical matter - miscellaneous questions

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  • Ex_OrganistEx_Organist Shipmate
    Qoheleth wrote: »
    I may have enquired about this before on Ye Olde Shippe, but can't find it.

    A number of the CoE's collects exhibit an apparently counter-intuitive shift between singular and plural verbs. Example, this week:

    God of Life,
    who for our redemption gave your only-begotten Son to the death of the cross,
    and by his glorious resurrection have delivered us from the power of our enemy
    ...

    In the second half of the relative clause, God is still One but has attracted a plural form of the verb.

    Am I missing some abstruse grammatical point here?

    "have" in this context is second person singular, as the subject of the verb, "who", is standing in for "you" (singular).
  • QohelethQoheleth Shipmate
    Qoheleth wrote: »
    I may have enquired about this before on Ye Olde Shippe, but can't find it.

    A number of the CoE's collects exhibit an apparently counter-intuitive shift between singular and plural verbs. Example, this week:

    God of Life,
    who for our redemption gave your only-begotten Son to the death of the cross,
    and by his glorious resurrection have delivered us from the power of our enemy
    ...

    In the second half of the relative clause, God is still One but has attracted a plural form of the verb.

    Am I missing some abstruse grammatical point here?

    "have" in this context is second person singular, as the subject of the verb, "who", is standing in for "you" (singular).

    Thanks - it must just be my intuition being skewed by that relative pronoun, then. If I were to rephrase it thus, it feels ok:

    God of Life,
    for our redemption you gave your only-begotten Son to the death of the cross,
    and by his glorious resurrection have delivered us from the power of our enemy
    ...
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited May 23
    This isn’t exactly a liturgical matter; it is perhaps more an extra-liturgical matter, but I’m not quite sure where else to ask it. The most recent thread on clerical attire is—appropriately, given its age and the date of its last post—in Oblivion, and I don’t think this warrants a thread of its own. But I find myself a little bit fascinated by the cassock and fascia being worn by the Rt. Rev. Ian Greenshields, Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland, which is currently underway in Edinburgh. A picture can be seen here. (More pictures can be found on this page.)

    It’s a double-breasted cassock, and it appears to be made of wool—possibly tweed or something similar, I can’t be sure. It looks fairly heavy (and hot, but maybe that’s just because it’s been 90° F/33° C here the last few days). The ends of the facia have a saltire and a brightly colored artistic panel.

    I’ve never seen anything quite like it. I’m wondering if anyone else has, or if anyone knows if there’s a story behind it.

  • Hmm. It looks quite seemly IMHO, but I think the part with the coloured panel and the saltire may be a matching scarf or stole.

    I'm sure Shipmates of the Kirk will be along soon!
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    . . . but I think the part with the coloured panel and the saltire may be a matching scarf or stole.
    I thought that at first, too, but it doesn’t hang from his neck or shoulders. Rather, it circles his waist, in the manner of a fascia.

  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited May 23
    Ah - so it does. Your eyesight is better than mine, but, on a second look (enlarging the picture), yes, ISWYM.
  • kingsfoldkingsfold Shipmate
    Hmm. It looks quite seemly IMHO, but I think the part with the coloured panel and the saltire may be a matching scarf or stole.

    I'm sure Shipmates of the Kirk will be along soon!

    Paging @Cathscats, and/or @North East Quine

  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Thanks, @kingsfold. I be should have thought of that.
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    I was in the centre of Edinburgh on Saturday morning with a group od French finance experts. Directly opposite St Giles' is the French Consulate which was proudly flying the French Tricolore and the flag of the European Union. Unfortunately there was no evidence that the General Assembly was just beginning at that moment. I think,though I'm not sure , that the High Commissioner was unable to be present and therefore they was no procession up the Royal Mile.
    As people better informed than I will know the Moderator traditionally wore a black suit with breeches and lace around the collar. This was stopped a few years ago and now it is up to the Moderator as to what he or she wears. There is similarly no absolute dress code for Presbyterian ministers. It is,I think, very rare to see a Presbyterian minister wearing a form of the fascia but there you are.
    A few years ago I was working in a Church of Scotland care home and took part in a Communion service on the Third Sunday of Advent. The minister apologised to me afterwards for not wearing a purple stole. As she didn't have one she had worn a red stole.
    I told her afterwards that it didn't worry me in the slightest. As she tried to explain to another Presbyterian the possible significance of the colours,the other person said that they had just thought that it was 'something Christmassy'
  • Not a clue, I'm afraid.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited May 23
    Not a clue, I'm afraid.
    Ah well. Thanks just the same.

    FWIW, in some other pictures that have gone up, the cassock appears to be a nice, rich blue, not quite the blue gray I thought at first.
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