Management

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Comments

  • Self-care Ian. :votive:

    I can't see you've done anything wrong. Your instincts have served you well. Now it is in the hands of the Director.
  • ExclamationMarkExclamationMark Shipmate
    edited June 2018
    Climacus wrote: »
    Sorry to read, SC.

    How would you prepare? Or am I over-analysing? This is the first time I have ever done this or been in this situation and I don't care for it. I've had poor managers before but it has never reached the stage where their manager has asked me about them. Did I do the wrong thing in expressing my view (too late now...but a lesson learnt...)? I'm a bundle of confusion and nerves. Thanks.

    Tell the truth. You've started so you have to finish otherwise there's no integrity. How you say it is another matter.

    The genie won't go back in the bottle now. The Director will be on your back too if you don't follow it through. I'd emphasise concern for the person and also the company not an attempt to get rid but an offer of help and development.

  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    Climacus wrote: »
    Sorry, I know this is not really the place, but I need to stop ranting and seek advice.

    Hostly furry hat on

    You're right that this isn't the place, and it's certainly not the place to seek advice.

    You need AUS-specific employment advice, from an AUS-trained and practicing lawyer or union rep. This is your job, your income. Ship of Fools (it's in the name...) isn't equipped to advise you.

    Hostly furry hat off

    DT
    HH
  • Ruth wrote: »
    Well....
    Employees can be pretty bad as well.

    Cry me a river. It must just suck so hard to have power over other people's lives.

    You're working in fast food are you, because that what that is. You need better nutrition. It is possible to run in a non-hierarchical way. Yes, someone has to do the accounts and sign off on decisions. I've worked for 3 decades to have a consensus-based decision making model, allow people to buy in and run things, pay more than the going rates. It's the few G.d. employees who want to import a purely exploitive capitalistic approach that are the problem. It's about values. And no-one knows what stress is until you have to meet a payroll and some third party decides to delay, audit, not pay, and I will not lay off people ever. There are more of us like me than people may think. The only things a small business employer has that employees may not is comfort with extreme financial risks - like losing everything, not having a pension, willingness to work 60-80 hours per week at least for a decade, willingness to forgive things just short of murder. So go eat a carrot, and lay off the fried crap.
  • Wow that's pretty amazing even for you, No Prophet.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    edited June 2018
    Thanks and sorry DT; message received.

    And thanks Simon and EM.
  • Perhaps in another thread we could discuss the benefits or otherwise of small business, but I think that no prophet is defending himself in a legitimate way. My dream world has big government enterprises feeding small businesses and large scale capitalism not in the picture. But that's for another thread.
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    No prophet is free to describe himself as an ideal employer, and I am free to call bullshit, because there is no such thing. I don't for a moment believe that he is running a business in a non-hierarchical way, given that he makes flu vaccination mandatory for his staff.
  • Yes well we had to let that go. Although it's mandatory for gov't workplaces for the same reasons. It is irresponsible and selfish in my view.

    You really don't know how business operates, do you? My role it's make things happen, to anticipate the issues and risks. I have lots of bluster and I push things if there's a good reason. That's how we succeed.

    But I don't know why you've got a thing for me. You started this. Why? Are you just playing the hell game or do you just need to be right? So will give you that. I am lying asshole. A dictatorial bastard. A terrible employer. Will that do? Are you good now?
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    I didn't start this. You waded into a Hell thread on management to complain about employees.
  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    I have a terrible manager, and I'm self-employed!
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    I have a terrible manager, and I'm self-employed!

    So who do we feel bad for in this scenario: your manager or your employee?

    In other complaints about management: my co-worker was removing personal items from her office the other day because she was told it looked "too comfortable." God forbid the room in which she spends more waking hours than any other be comfortable. I on the other hand am regularly encouraged to bring in some kind of decor for my office; my preference for blank walls is apparently not important.
  • Ruth wrote: »
    In other complaints about management: my co-worker was removing personal items from her office the other day because she was told it looked "too comfortable." God forbid the room in which she spends more waking hours than any other be comfortable. I on the other hand am regularly encouraged to bring in some kind of decor for my office; my preference for blank walls is apparently not important.

    My god, talk about micromanagement.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited June 2018
    The two posts above are just awful, and equivalent I reckon. Inconsistent rulings are insidious attacks on our mental health.

    I should acknowledge that I believe I would be an awful manager. My actions and reactions are heavily influenced by my mood. I would certainly have good intentions, but they would be sabotaged by my own inconsistent behavior. My saving grace, I think, would be an awareness of my own wrongdoing after the event and an urge to apologise poorly controlled.

    So I try to judge my own managers by my own likely behavior. Mind you, I can only do that with the good ones, I find. If I am dealt with poorly I burn with hatred and resentment and have to recite really long Sweet Honey in the Rock songs in the car to try and control my thoughts. If I slip back into angry plotting, I restart the song.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    Ruth's example? Gee. Words fail. We had Australia Post institute a maximum number of photos per desk policy at one stage.
  • I was away from work on sick leave for about six weeks at the most critical time of the year, but my manager didn't bother getting a temp until I'd been gone for almost a month. Now that I'm back on a gradual return to work, I'm required to submit daily email reports on what I did every day. So my work is so unimportant that it can be left undone for a month, but I'm apparently so untrustworthy that I now have to account for my time every day. I don't report how much time I spend seething or reviewing job postings, though.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    Oh my. How horrid. So sorry for you.


    Well the director had a talk with the other members of the team and the manager. And there are signs of change. If I haven't made it clear I am also trying to change some of my actions and responses. Early days; very early days -- but some positive signs at least.
  • thanks for the update Ian. I'm very glad things are looking up. Kudos for a reflective look at yourself as well.
  • I don't report how much time I spend seething or reviewing job postings, though.

    I hope you do include, a time allowance for properly documenting your use of time :smile:

    I hated timesheets in engineering consultancy. You either f*cked your hourly rate (too many hours on the job), or chargeability (too many hours to non-chargeables), or your home life (by working extra hours into the evenings not put down on the timesheet, to make a job look profitable).
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    Yes: I am glad my timesheet today only records hours for overtime.

    I get a company must be profitable, but I had one that allowed little if no tolerance for non-chargeable time when $ale$ weren't bringing in any new work!?!? Never did understand why they couldn't see the connection.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    Oh well. The fun continues.

    I was asked by the senior product manager of a product we use to give a webinar, the first of a series, on how we use it. I say I need to confirm with manager. She responds we are not ready to do it as we have nothing interesting to show. The vendor manager clearly disagrees. But no.

    I get I may've been a bit excited about it and possibly cannot see reality. But if a vendor asks you to demonstrate how you use it, surely there is something of note there.

    Oh well. Meeting later this week with her and her manager. Should be a barrel of laughs.
  • Watch it. She might just have the 'ump that the invitation to big yourselves up, came through you.

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I don't report how much time I spend seething or reviewing job postings, though.

    I hope you do include, a time allowance for properly documenting your use of time :smile:

    I hated timesheets in engineering consultancy. You either f*cked your hourly rate (too many hours on the job), or chargeability (too many hours to non-chargeables), or your home life (by working extra hours into the evenings not put down on the timesheet, to make a job look profitable).

    My field is IT. My employer started as a builder. When you're building a house you can spend all day laying bricks. When you're deploying software using automated systems you're pressing buttons and checking progress logs. So to make efficient use of time you are usually doing two or three things in any given hour period.

    Management doesn't grasp this. In spades.
  • I always wanted to be a lumberjack...
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    I always wanted to be a lumberjack...

    "...jumping from tree to tree as they float down the mighty rivers of British Columbia!"
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    There are times I consider forgetting it and opening a hotdog stand. But the thing is I like my actual *work*, though it's sometimes interesting when the last technical training I had was in 2004.
  • hang on - you don't Just Know?

    I went for the hotdog stand. It was clear that I was well-adjusted and without a sense of self-worth which depended on my career. Hmm. :smile:
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    edited July 2018
    Training??? I thought that word had dropped out of the dictionary. Do training via Help files seems the refrain here.


    Next to be lined up against the wall: the head of the division of the asylum I work in. Got the job, being bridesmaid at her boss' wedding. Has no discernible skills. Everything she has touched has turned to shit. Is loathed across the university. Is still in a job.

    I, and now someone else in my team, have been preparing annual reports for her 4 years. During that time we have tried to improve the process and the reports: we have been stymied at almost every turn (it takes 4-5 weeks [yes, really!]; we suggested a process to bring it to 2 -- no). She sends a whining email to our boss today saying she doesn't understand the reports; she doesn't understand the acronyms in the report; and she doesn't trust the figures. Given these are the same bloody reports she's had for 4 years, the acronyms are blindingly obvious as they are in use at the university (and, 4 years again), and the figures are correct (so she is not over what sort of figures to expect), her ineptitude shows through. One comment in particular shows she has no idea how teaching works in the university -- it was something I learnt on my first day -- and we are the teaching and learning area!?!? And she is in charge!?!?

    And now she wants what we suggested 6 months ago in these reports and what she angrily and in-a-dismissive-tone dismissed -- and wants it now (it will take some time) and doesn't understand it may take some time to implement.

    If I didn't work with some great academics and great general staff I'd be out of here. We get stuff done in spite of her.
  • Climacus wrote: »
    We get stuff done in spite of her.

    :smile: That's been my experience for years, and years, and years in HE. A coalition of the willing and able run a black economy of not-very-carefully-counted favours for each other and make the right thing happen. Problem is, when my kids choose courses, I won't know who those people are and what courses they teach. Chances are it won't be in the shiniest bits of the prospectus, but that's not enough detail to help choose...
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    Well, I wouldn't believe it.

    Said manager has changed. Dramatically. For the better. Much better. This whole kerfuffle with her manager speaking to me, then her, then the team, has obviously triggered something.

    Early days, I know, but credit where credit is due. She is making a true effort to lead and grow the team.
  • well well well!
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    Whoa. Did you step into an alternate universe?
  • MooMoo Kerygmania Host
    Maybe nobody ever gave her honest feedback before.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    edited July 2018
    Lyda: I didn't hear a Tardis so I don't believe so. :smile:

    Moo: possibly. Good point.

    Simon: indeed.

    Things aren't perfect. But they have rocketed up the acceptable list. I too have made changes to better fit in with her mode of working to ease the relationship strains, so I guess that has helped somewhat too. We shall see if it continues.

    But today I had an experience of a worse manager. Her response to my simple request (CCed to multiple people I don't even know!) gave me the shits. There are ways to say "No" that don't make you come across as a self-serving, self-righteous, holier-than-thou arsehole. She clearly doesn't know them. Never think all professional staff in unis are there to support students and faculty - some are there to big note themselves in meetings and at conferences.
  • Climacus wrote: »
    Never think all professional staff in unis are there to support students and faculty - some are there to big note themselves in meetings and at conferences.

    When I was teaching / researching / doing commercial work in HE and came in for sh*t from those people, I was always tempted to reply 'I'd love to help you, but I'm a bit busy trying to earn my - and your - salary.' :smile:

  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    edited July 2018
    Ha ha. I tell friends I'm tempted to ring the Education minister and insist he cut funding to my university given the amount of oxygen-thieves they employ.

    Said manager above just got better. She conducted a uni-wide "data discovery" process. Wherein she did not speak to any system custodians. I saw what she wrote about the system I use and as of Friday I've written 2.5 pages of corrections in a table, line-by-line. She got something wrong on almost every page, sometimes shockingly so, and there are pages where every paragraph has at least 1 mistake. It takes a special kind of mediocrity to achieve that; and a certain level of hubris to think you don't need to contact a system custodian to check, at the least, what data they have. My, how failure rises to the top. 6 figure salary. I weep.

    My manager and I now have a common enemy. It is bringing us closer. Who could've guessed?
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    edited September 2018
    Looks like our national broadcaster is following us in virtual recognition cards:
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/05/the-wiggles-for-grown-ups-abc-staff-bemused-by-utopia-like-larry-cards

    My director kindly paid for accommodation and a uni car for me to travel 5 hrs each way to a teammate's funeral. Then ruined it by saying I might want to schedule meetings up there while I'm there to make use of the time.
  • Education is run very much as a business these days rather than a service. Ditto the NHS.
    It’s sad how it’s all about targets, tick boxes and bureaucracy rather than just getting on with it and helping people.

    We’ve recently been taken over and I like my managers but their roles are too big for anyone to deal with so I get delegated tasks that impede on my roles and make my job also impossible.
  • How very frustrating!

    And good point about education, and health, and other government services. Corporate is best, seems the mantra here.
  • The only time I had a manager from hell, it was a live-in job. I didn't stay long.
  • Climacus wrote: »
    Never think all professional staff in unis are there to support students and faculty - some are there to big note themselves in meetings and at conferences.

    When I was teaching / researching / doing commercial work in HE and came in for sh*t from those people, I was always tempted to reply 'I'd love to help you, but I'm a bit busy trying to earn my - and your - salary.' :smile:

    That's ok, anytime faculty complained in front of me about too many administrators, I would reply, "Oh, so you'll be recruiting students, holding classes at your home and collecting fees yourself?" :wink:
  • I find that if you make noises like a wookie they tend to leave you alone.
  • I might try Wookiee noise trick.

    Worse than management are people at an equal level & equally qualified but who work a few more hours a week (contractually - not in practice always) in an equivalent role but believe that gives them the right to tell you how you must do things & allow you a teeny bit of leeway but make it clear to all and sundry that you must and are adhereing to their far more efficient & vastly superior (not) ways.

    They way I want to respond to this situation would deserve a hell call at least. Gotta love working in the public sector where the decline in £££ is making it harder to stand up to “through the hoop” BS that isn’t bullying but isn’t decent behaviour either - I don’t like the arsey nature it brings out in me either.
  • fair comment. Fortunately I have been in my present job long enough to be able to ignore those types. I remember when I was casual being told how to wash the dishes. The person asked me whether I would use my method at home. I said, yes, its a perfectly good method. That was the last shift I worked at that house.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    Oh, not entirely me -- we could work in the same place. A pox upon them.

    And colleagues who whinge and whine about how busy they are...and spend all day on Facebook.

    On management...my manager submitted a proposal for a conference session with my name on it without telling me. And for a conference I have no interest in. Oh well.
  • I'm not sure I mentioned this earlier, but my wife once prepared a paper on something or other. She heard nothing. Months later she attended an internal training meeting where the manager presented the paper as her own.
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