Orthodox rite of baptism for adults

Whilst in most churches in Western Christianity baptism is usually administered by pouring water on the head of the candidate, I believe that in Eastern rites baptism is usually administered by ducking in water and rising to new life.
I can see that one might use some sort of basin for the baptism of a baby and indeed such a ceremony was the only time that I have been present at an Orthodox baptism.
What does one use for an adult baptism ? Is there a pool which is used as in a Baptist or indeed in some Catholic churches ? Do Orthodox always insist on an Orthodox baptism for an adult convert who may have already gone through the ceremony of baptism in one of the Western Christian 'churches' ?

Comments

  • The Orthodox can answer this better than I can but my understanding is that as long as it's running water a baptism by immersion in the Orthodox tradition can be carried out almost anywhere, in a baptistery, in a river, the sea ...

    As far as baptising people who have already been baptised in another Christian tradition, my understanding is that the Russians will customarily do that and that the monks of Mount Athos would insist on it too. Other Orthodox jurisdictions don't. The Antiochians don't baptise Western converts from other churches. I don't think the Greeks do either.

    Others who know more than I do will be able to give the low down.

    As with almost everything else about Orthodoxy there are all sorts of contingencies and variations, it seems to me.
  • We rent a horse trough. Seriously.
  • Thank you to both for your information . I do like the idea of a horse trough !!
  • magnilomagnilo Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    We rent a horse trough. Seriously.

    I love it!
  • IereusIereus Shipmate
    We have a galvanized metal horse trough, but I have also baptized adults, and children over age 3, in lakes or pools.
    Those who have previously been baptized in the name of the Holy Trinity, and have a certificate or witnesses, are received by Holy Chrismation (similar to a Western Confirmation).
  • Am the only one who keeps picturing the Baptism scene in "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"?
  • IereusIereus Shipmate
    And Nicki’s gonna be your godmother...
  • IereusIereus Shipmate
    One practice that I actively discourage is for converts to take completely new names when baptized/chrismated if they already possess a perfectly good Christian name.
    For example, if your name is already Dwight Peter Jones, why take the name Seraphim when you’re already named for the Chief Apostle?
  • Al EluiaAl Eluia Shipmate
    Then there's this baptism from "My Big Fat Greek Wedding."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOH35IGxVBU
  • Al Eluia wrote: »
    Then there's this baptism from "My Big Fat Greek Wedding."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOH35IGxVBU

    Seriously, though - coming from a place of complete ignorance - what are the gross (and not so gross) inaccuracies of the baptism in My Big Fat Greek Wedding?
  • IereusIereus Shipmate
    Actually, the movie is fairly accurate for the actual anointing and immersion. However, that’s only a couple of minutes out of an hour long service!
    Things that are a little unusual: a) adult candidates usually wear a long white robe with a red cross sewn on front and back; b) it would not be practical to have a godparent of the opposite sex in an adult baptism, as the candidate has to be anointed head to toe with holy oil by the godparent (under the robe); c) the father-in-law announces to Ian the night before that he’s being baptized...extensive catechetical instruction is pretty much mandatory beforehand.
    The chanting and the actions of the priest are very well done.
  • Iereus wrote: »
    The chanting and the actions of the priest are very well done.

    If I remember correctly, the priest is played by an actual Greek Orthodox priest.
  • Mark BettsMark Betts Shipmate
    edited November 24
    I didn't have to be re-baptized - in my church (ROC), if you had already had a Trinitarian Baptism, this would suffice, whether by sprinkling/pouring or full emersion. In such cases Chrismation is required (after Catechesis.) However, I know this is not universal practice.
    Iereus wrote: »
    One practice that I actively discourage is for converts to take completely new names when baptized/chrismated if they already possess a perfectly good Christian name.
    For example, if your name is already Dwight Peter Jones, why take the name Seraphim when you’re already named for the Chief Apostle?

    I didn't choose a new name, I simply chose a patron saint with my name. However, I don't see any reason to insist on it for everyone else.
  • I took a saint's name upon baptism, then upon tonsure as a Reader, I took a saint with my name. So in effect I have two saints, but I can take communion under my own name (or the Russian variant thereof).
  • CyprianCyprian Shipmate
    Many purpose-built or adapted churches will have a baptistry with a font large enough to accommodate an adult baptism, such as may be seen here.

    I have known some missions to rent birthing pools, which seems an apt symbolism. My old parish uses a water tank and it's in this that I was baptised.

    How people baptised in non-Orthodox churches are received into Orthodoxy depends on a number of factors, including the baptismal rite of the "outgoing" church home, its theology, and whether its sacraments are recognised by the particular Orthodox jurisdiction, as well as pastoral care in the individual's circumstances.

    The Russian church, for instance, would usually accept a Catholic by Chrismation, and by vesting and concelebration if a priest, as it recognises Catholic sacraments, although there might be differences in practice by locale, and autonomous churches under Moscow (such as ROCOR) might have their own customs.

    The Antiochian church maintains a list of churches whose baptisms it can be confident in accepting by economy without the need for an Orthodox baptismal rite.
  • I thought the Orthodox didn't recognize sacraments outside her walls, period?
  • mousethief wrote: »
    I thought the Orthodox didn't recognize sacraments outside her walls, period?
    I know of a Greek Orthodox Priest who sent his son to a Catholic School and actually encouraged his son to receive communion at the school masses.
  • I think he is probably acting outside of the official dictates of the church.
  • CyprianCyprian Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    I thought the Orthodox didn't recognize sacraments outside her walls, period?

    That's what I was taught, having been formed in ROCOR and reading the writings of my patron saint.

    However, I came to learn that there are more nuanced approaches to non-Orthodox sacraments elsewhere in Eastern Orthodoxy, ranging from complete non-acceptance (a more Cyprianic viewpoint) to acceptance but with a view that it's improper to celebrate together until full communion is restored (the approach of Moscow to Catholic sacraments*), with there lying in between the two the acceptance of the outward form of non-Orthodox baptism, for instance, but non-recognition of grace in those actions unless the person is bright within the Orthodox Church.

    *This was one of the points discussed quite a bit online in the approach to the 2007 reunion between Moscow and ROCOR, And Met. Hilarion of Volokolamsk has spoken about this more recently, citing a source.

    I might try to find it later when there's more time.
  • stonespringstonespring Shipmate
    edited December 5
    Cyprian wrote: »
    Many purpose-built or adapted churches will have a baptistry with a font large enough to accommodate an adult baptism, such as may be seen here.

    I have known some missions to rent birthing pools, which seems an apt symbolism. My old parish uses a water tank and it's in this that I was baptised.

    How people baptised in non-Orthodox churches are received into Orthodoxy depends on a number of factors, including the baptismal rite of the "outgoing" church home, its theology, and whether its sacraments are recognised by the particular Orthodox jurisdiction, as well as pastoral care in the individual's circumstances.

    The Russian church, for instance, would usually accept a Catholic by Chrismation, and by vesting and concelebration if a priest, as it recognises Catholic sacraments, although there might be differences in practice by locale, and autonomous churches under Moscow (such as ROCOR) might have their own customs.

    The Antiochian church maintains a list of churches whose baptisms it can be confident in accepting by economy without the need for an Orthodox baptismal rite.

    To clarify, the ROC will chrismate a concert from Roman Catholicism who has already received the sacrament of confirmation in the RCC, but they will not re-ordain an RC priest who converts to Orthodoxy? And they will let the convert priest celebrate sacraments from the moment he converts?

    If a Roman Catholic married couple who were married by a deacon, rather than a priest, converted to Orthodoxy, would they have to marry again?
  • CyprianCyprian Shipmate
    edited December 6
    To clarify, the ROC will chrismate a concert from Roman Catholicism who has already received the sacrament of confirmation in the RCC, but they will not re-ordain an RC priest who converts to Orthodoxy?

    Nothing is absolute and everything is subject to the particular pastoral circumstances in each case and the direction of the ruling bishop but yes, generally speaking, my understanding is that this is the current prevailing custom within the Moscow Patriarchate.
    And they will let the convert priest celebrate sacraments from the moment he converts?

    Again, no absolutes.

    If he wishes to continue to serve as a priest upon entering the Orthodox Church and if the bishop thinks that this is prudent, then he can be received simply by renouncing non-Orthodox beliefs, affirming Orthodox ones, being vested as a priest, and concelebrating with his bishop.

    What formation would be deemed suitable and any timescales involved would again be determined according to the particular circumstances.

    I once knew a former Coptic Orthodox priest who was received into Eastern Orthodoxy through ROCOR (in this case the ordination prayers were prayed over him and he was vested but without the public display of the full ordination rite). Even though he was considered an Eastern Orthodox priest from that moment, he was not pemitted to serve the Liturgy or hear confessions &c. until his mentoring priest and the bishop were satisfied that he was competent to do so.
    If a Roman Catholic married couple who were married by a deacon, rather than a priest, converted to Orthodoxy, would they have to marry again?

    Marriage is one of those areas where economy is usually extended extremely generously. Those entering into Christian marriage outside of Orthodoxy would generally find their marriage seen as part of the whole that is made in a sense complete in Chrismation. (What happens in the case of civil marriages I suspect might be different but I will defer to those with greater knowledge.) I have known of couples who have requested their marriage to be crowned after converting to Orthodoxy - and that is an option - but I havenver heard of a priest insisting on it. It would seem too much like setting an unnecessary hurdle in the way of people's journey.
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